73 replies to this topic

[hcmv007]

I figured Ultimate Spider-Man would cause a buzz. I dont know if or how many remembered the what if Bond was black topic a while back. I pointed out if we did that lets have a white Shaft & a hispanic Kato. While I am not a fan of this change for Spidey-it is in an alternate universe & outside main continuity. But it does show the big problem in comics today-lack of creativity by comic writers. I was a huge Ultimate fan but after a few bad story lines I stopped reading. I am sure a writer could create a great hero who just so happens to be a minority. The Icon imprint in the 90's produced that-and nobody bought it. Icon characters were absorbed into the DC Universe & Icon gave us Static-an original character with cool powers with everyday problems. My point is you dont need to replace comic characters who were introduced as white or black & replace them with black or white characters. This is a cop out on Brian Michael Bendis' part. The market will decide the fate of this new Spider-Man, but history isnt on his side.

[Dustin]

Exactly, market will see to the fate of this. Success will depend on the quality of the stories, nothing else. I don't buy this hidden/open agenda and complaining about what 'subconsciously' readers are told. MARVEL comics are full of 'minorities', that's part of the whole mutant/superhero theme. Ethnic background is a feature MARVEL picked up in the seventies with Masters of Kung Fu/Sons of the Tiger, Tomb of Dracula and the Black Panther as early as 1966. I don't see any damage that should have done to society in close to fifty years.

That MARVEL is going a safe route there is true. But business today is at least fifty percent banking and banking is a hundred percent about bankability. Taking an established character instead of creating a new one is just a logic consequence and it's done for the same reasons we only get rehashes on the big screen, because it seems like a safe bet. Time will tell if it is to the tastes of the readers, I wouldn't lose any sleep there.

[Dustin]

Exactly, market will see to the fate of this. Success will depend on the quality of the stories, nothing else. I don't buy this hidden/open agenda and complaining about what 'subconsciously' readers are told. MARVEL comics are full of 'minorities',

I think it's great that there are minorities in comic books (like Storm for example) who are positive role models. My problem comes when a role or character is completely revamped to be something that it was not nor was ever intended to be, and that includes radically changing the gender, sexuality or race/ethnicity of a character. One comment I read on a message board stated: 'What difference does it make? Once he puts the costume on nobody will be able to tell whether he's black or white.' My response would be: If that's the case and it really doesn't matter, then why bother changing the character's race to begin with?

Perhaps because Spider-Man is for a large part about the nerd under the balaclava, some guy not at all heroic in a traditional sense and coping with numerous private problems on top of his night-time eccentricity. And perhaps because that race-change is having consequences for that guy, a different set of problems, other ways to deal with background. I actually think there is potential in that idea there, although I don't know if it will be used.

Non-minority readers will read a comic book with minority heroes if they feel they are being entertained and not being brainwashed or talked-down to or preached at, which is why I think this new Spider-Man venture will fail.

Nobody is being brainwashed, or talked-down to or preached at. For the basic reason that those inclined to feel this way - amongst them you - just won't read it, plain and simple. Where's the harm? Whether others will read this Ultimate Spider-Man remains to be seen. But I strongly refuse the idea 'minority' (whatever is meant by that stupid label) readers would pick this up just because (or even mainly) it features a 'minority' character. Comics are read for fun and entertainment, not because they are required reading or to support some cause.

Even the idea that this Spider-Man is in an alternate universe and thus doesn't count seems a bit off; NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN was in an alternate universe. Was NSNA any less of a Bond film?

And my arguments against radically remaking characters are consistent and on the record. I was very vocal on these boards about my displeasure with the casting of Daniel Craig as James Bond at the time; I felt he was totally wrong for the part and looked nothing like Ian Fleming described (and that was an example of one white actor taking over from another white actor; imagine if the part had been recast with a black or Hispanic actor instead).

Gravy, I suppose you already have come a long way to prove the existence of at least one (and probably an infinite number of) parallel universes, no small feat. But I doubt this particular example really supports your point. That Ultimate Spider-Man is another character, it isn't Peter Parker. Someone else was bitten by the radioactive spider (or whatever they have in mind) and Peter Parker leads an ordinary life, probably even a happier one. Maybe he has a strange affinity to spiders there, animals he couldn't stand until he was 16 or so. And maybe he really gets to date Gwen Stacey and they live long and happily together and his life is completely ordinary until one Halloween, in 2089, he suffers a fatal heart attack when seeing the neighbour's kids in goblin masks?

And that would be a world where Bond just was demobilised after WWII and one Shiva D. Singh wasn't to become a dentist but a 00-agent, the seventh of the branch at the time, and casting him with Connery or Craig would have been likewise off.

[Dustin]

But I strongly refuse the idea 'minority' (whatever is meant by that stupid label) readers would pick this up just because (or even mainly) it features a 'minority' character.

I agree they're not going to buy ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN just because the new Spider-Man is half-black, half-Hispanic, but it was precisely what Marvel was hoping for. My belief is that this experiment will fail because it will alienate old fans and fail to attract new, paying readers. I suspect that if minority kids weren't reading Spider-Man now they're certainly not going to start doing so. Marvel will bury the idea and excuse away the failure under the guise that it was all in an alternate universe.

I think they are perhaps not looking exacly at either of the two groups but at the generation who just discovers comics and hasn't already a history with them. We easily forget that especially the MARVEL/DC business has become increasingly difficult because of their very success. Heroes with 40, 50 or even 70 years of backstory have become so difficult to follow that newcomers need hefty lexica and compendia to follow the lives of their preferred characters, even with all those restarts and world-shattering multiverse events. The Ultimate entries are partially aimed at those who have yet to delve deeper into the medium and want an easy entry.

But, as everybody seems to be aware, the proof is in the cake. We'll see how much substance is involved there.

[hcmv007]

Most of the new DC comics are out, and after only reading Action & Detective #1 I have to say its pretty interesting. As most of you may now know, Clark Kent and Lois Lane are no longer married. On Batman, it doesn't look like the reboot affected his continuity since Robin is still Damian Wayne, Dick Grayson is still Nightwing, and he seems to be the more established hero in this new universe. The last of the new #1's hit this week, so check out dccmoics.com for what's out, and drop by your local comic book store, they will be happy to see you and you may find a few back issues you love as well.

[hcmv007]

All the DC #1's sold out their first printings & moving on to 2nd & 3rd printings. The 2nd issues hit tomorrow.

Will Marvel follow suit? I am not sure, but if DC keeps making mad moolah expect the House of Ideas to make a bold move.

[freemo]

Most of the new DC comics are out, and after only reading Action & Detective #1 I have to say its pretty interesting. As most of you may now know, Clark Kent and Lois Lane are no longer married. On Batman, it doesn't look like the reboot affected his continuity since Robin is still Damian Wayne, Dick Grayson is still Nightwing, and he seems to be the more established hero in this new universe. The last of the new #1's hit this week, so check out dccmoics.com for what's out, and drop by your local comic book store, they will be happy to see you and you may find a few back issues you love as well.

I bought Action, Detective, Batman and All Star Western. Enjoyed them all (though 'Tec is really just standard Batman ho-hum) and will stick with them for a while.

[hcmv007]

Ok, I have done a lot of soul searching, reading and praying. Here is my final verdict on the New 52 from DC....I don't like it anymore. Why? There isn't anything really exciting IMO. Superman was interesting now that he is single again, but it seems like they try to make him like Peter Parker, plus his landlady knows he's Superman?! Batman never changed-and that was disappointing. While I am glad Barbara Gordon is back as Batgirl I would like Dick Grayson back as Robin-not Damian "The Brat" Wayne. Wonder Woman seems readable, as does the Flash and Green Lantern (Hal Jordan). Making the original GL Alan Scott gay is a cheap publicity stunt. If you look at the sales, Marvel is back on top-better stories, better characters (right now). I thought DC had it right with the Earth One proposed series, especially the Superman we saw in that world. But there is hope, as the 2nd part of that incredible story comes out later this year.


What should they have done? Clean start over. Make them all in their mid 20's. I would like to see how they decided to be heroes in this Post 9/11 world we live in. Here's what I would do to the top DC people:

1) Superman-incorporate the Secret Origins by Geoff Johns story line into the mainstream. Clark should keep his identity secret from Lois and only Ma & Pa Kent should know. Keep General Lane as the person vowing to hunt down Superman, with Lex Luthor running LexCorp scheming things behind the scenes. Also, make the costume like it was in Superman Returns, I liked that style.

2) Batman-Year One was a great story, but get back to that style of gritty writing. Have him meet a young Dick Grayson, have him romance Vicki Vale and for God sakes refer to the Animated series for inspiration! Go with the armored look in the Arkham City game for his costume, and have hijm make mistakes-I think this will do him some good-and over time give him the edge he has. His origin is simple, but so rich when you play the other sources (90's anmiated, Batman Begins, etc)

3) Flash-I never liked Wally West, so I stick with Barry Allen. I use the Flash TV series as an inspiration and make a "2nd season" if you will. I have him slightly older (around 30) than the other heroes. Play off the rouges gallery, incorporate Barry's life as a police scientist (Like in CSI). I have to admit, I haven't read a lot of the new Flash, but just giving my take

4) Wonder Woman-just give her the old costume back please.

5) Green Lantern-I prefer Hal Jordan, but I like the John Stewart character as well. In my version, Hal has disappeared and John Stewart, who in my version is an alcoholic who has been divorced and has 2 kids stumbles on the Power Ring and defends Earth while trying to find Hal. In the process he starts to rebuild his life. Again, I haven't read much of the new GL.


Just my thoughts.

[Dustin]

How did that new-different-whatever Spider-Man fare? Hit? Flop? Already canceled? Is the world still turning? I never got the hate for this, would like to hear if it met with a readership justifying the craze.

Green Lantern in gay-pink? We don't expect a major gay-pidemic because of such a cheap trick, do we?

[hcmv007]

The Ultimate Spidey is still going on-but at least according to my local shops readership has tailed off.

Doubt that GL will wear pink-but IMO its still a gimmick (just like Ultimate Spidey). But if the market decides they like it, fine with me. But I am not buying them.

Anyone catching Avengers vs X-Men? Selling like hotcakes.

Before Watchmen is coming soon-7 issues featuring the Watchmen characters. I think it starts in July

The Ultimate Spidey is still going on-but at least according to my local shops readership has tailed off.

Doubt that GL will wear pink-but IMO its still a gimmick (just like Ultimate Spidey). But if the market decides they like it, fine with me. But I am not buying them.

Anyone catching Avengers vs X-Men? Selling like hotcakes.

Before Watchmen is coming soon-7 issues featuring the Watchmen characters. I think it starts in July

The Ultimate Spidey is still going on-but at least according to my local shops readership has tailed off.

Doubt that GL will wear pink-but IMO its still a gimmick (just like Ultimate Spidey). But if the market decides they like it, fine with me. But I am not buying them.

Anyone catching Avengers vs X-Men? Selling like hotcakes.

Before Watchmen is coming soon-7 issues featuring the Watchmen characters. I think it starts in July

The Ultimate Spidey is still going on-but at least according to my local shops readership has tailed off.

Doubt that GL will wear pink-but IMO its still a gimmick (just like Ultimate Spidey). But if the market decides they like it, fine with me. But I am not buying them.

Anyone catching Avengers vs X-Men? Selling like hotcakes.

Before Watchmen is coming soon-7 issues featuring the Watchmen characters. I think it starts in July

[Dustin]

Erm, think I got it. After the third repetition I detected a pattern...

[hcmv007]

Before Watchmen out now, part 1 The Minutemen out last week, part 2 has the Silk Spectre this week. Also the Earth 2 Alan Scott issue hits stands tomorrow as well. Check out your local comic shop for the details.


For those on a budget-while it is a pain to wait I recommend getting the trade paperbacks, its a lot up front but you do get a fair price ($19-$25 depending on the # of issues and if its Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, etc) and bonus materials too, like forwards, pages of character designs, etc. You also get the convenience of no ads to interupt your reading if you hate that (I have to admit it annoys me sometimes).

[hcmv007]

We all have our dream teams, so I thought I'd give mine for some of my favorite comic books-my rules are simple, any living or dead writer or artist to make IMO the perfect comic books, here are a few to get started:

The Amazing Spider-Man: Writer-Brian Michael Bendis Artist: Todd McFarlane I know not many liked McFarlane's art now but he did change Spidey artistically speaking. His webline is still used by artists today, and his costume design (the large eyes on his mask) is as well. Bendis did godd on Ultimate Spidey, and while I disagree with the direction of that title now, he is a good Spider-Man writer. But I would love to see him on the main continuity.

Star Wars (Post Return of the Jedi) Writer-John Ostrander Artist-Jan Duuresma They did Legacy, which was set a century after Jedi, and some of the Republic story lines, but I want to see this duo do post Episode VI stories in comics, and toss out most of the EU (Except for Truce at Bakura, the Courtship of Princess Leia, the Thrawn Trilogy and Jedi Search-the other 2 should be tossed IMO). How good would this be?

Star Trek (2009 Film) Writer-Peter David Artist-Stephen Molnar Good news is Molnar is back as the artist on this one for issue 9 which is out now, but I love his art. Kirk looks like Pine, Uhura like Saldana, Spock like Quinto and so on. Peter David IMO is the BEST writer of Star Trek, he even has his own Best of TPB for his Star Trek work. Check out my comic review on the Star Trek forum for more of my history on Peter David's Star Trek work

Star Trek: The Next Generation Writer-Roberto Orci Artist-Jan Duuresma Orci is overseeing the new monthly for Star Trek, but i would love to see his take on the TNG crew. Duuresma is the best sci-fi artist out there, and her art is clean and crisp.

Star Wars (Between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back) Writer-Timothy Zahn Artist-Al Williamson Zahn should get money from Lucasfilm for the rest of his life. His Thrawn Trilogy novels reignited the passion of Star Wars fans and helped relauanch the toys and helped hype video releases and the Special Editions. The late Al Williamson drew the Star Wars daily strips that occurred during this time period, but Zahn's story telling could help clean up a time where we don't really have a lot of knowledge about.


Next Dream Teams-Superman, Batman, Flash, Green Lantern & X-Men!

[hcmv007]

More Dream Team Comic Books

Flash: Writers-Danny Bilson & Paul De Meo Artist-Carmine Infantino The men who brought the Flash to TV would do great handling Barry Allen in the main DC universe, now they did do the Flash title a few years ago, with Bart Allen as the Flash. Infantino drew some great Flash stories in the past and would be the perfect artist to go here.

Green Lanter: Writer-Mark Waid Artist-Howard Porter Porter did the JLA in the late 90's, and Mark Waid (who had a great run on Flash) handled some great GL stories. Just make the GL Hal Jordan and we are all set to roll out a must read DC book-just get rid of the red, blue, indigo, white and black lanterns. Only the Yellow and Star Sapphire's please

Batman-for Batman I am breaking them into 3 titles, Batman & Detective Comics, which are contemporary and Legends of the Dark Knight which would be an Elseworlds title pitting Batman in the 1930's thru the 1980's

Batman: Writer-Grant Morrison Artist-Frank Quitely This team has done a lot of good work (X-Men, All Star Superman) and I would love to see them tackle the Dark Knight. Quitely has an issue in the past being on time, but he is a perfectionist, this would be a top seller if it happened.

Detective Comics: Writer-Jeph Loeb Artist-Norm Breyfogle Jeph Loeb's the Long Halloween is considered a top rate detective story, perfect for Detective Comics. If you saw the Batman animated series in the 90's, and liked it, you saw Norm Breyfogle perfectly capture that look. His art style and Loeb's mysteries would make this a must read.

Legends of the Dark Knight: Writer-Denny O'Neill Artist-Jim Aparo Denny O'Neill wrote some great Batman tales, and having over 50 years to work with would do wonders. The late Jim Aparo drew Death in the Family & Knightfall for Batman so his art would be great for this title


Superman-this is the same as Batman, Action Comics, Superman & Superman Adventures which would be an Elseworlds title like Legends of the Dark Knight

Action Comics-Writer and Artist Dan Jurgens Since he hasn't done this title he is my choice here. He did the infamous Superman #75 and is doing the current reboot. Jurgens' art is clean, crisp and when I think of Superman its his rendering I imagine. Jurgens is also a great story teller, so if he had made the revamped Superman it would turn out much better. The isolated hero is his idea, and it would excel here.

Superman-Writer: J Michael Straczynski Artist-Jim Lee Not many liked JMS run on Superman, but if he had more control, like he does in Superman Earth One, then it would,ve been a hit. What more can you say about Jim Lee (who will be back later on)?

Superman Adventures-Writer: Karl Kesel Artist: Curt Swan Karl Kesel did light hearted Superman in the 90's on Adventures of Superman, and would do wonders taking Supes through time. The late great Curt Swan defined the Man of Steel's look (and made Lois Lane and Lana Lang comic sex symbols too) and I would have loved to get a book like this.


More to come!