Jump to content


This is a read only archive of the old forums
The new CBn forums are located at https://quarterdeck.commanderbond.net/

 
Photo

'Devil May Care' After Action Reports


437 replies to this topic

Poll: 'Devil May Care' After Action Reports

How do you rate Sebastian Faulks' centenary novel?

You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.
Vote Guests cannot vote

#91 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 06 June 2008 - 07:23 PM

200 pages in now and my enthusiasm as not diminished one bit.

Come on Zencat is there nothing you don't like. I agree with you about Young Bond. Far better than the idea deserved. The Moneypenny Diaries I think are the real thing. But Devil May Care is a pretty mediocre pastiche that has a few well written passages. All it shows to me is how underated Fleming was. Maybe not by us but by the intelligentia at large. For someone who's a screenwriter you must admit the basic plot is a bit thin. In fact it really reminds me of early Gardner. And that is not a compliment. Oh well better than Benson, and that also is not a compliment.

What can I say. I'm trying. I guess I do like everything. Or maybe I just don't let those things that I don't like spoil into my overall enjoyment and drive my judgment. James Bond is, after all, what I turn to for fun. And DMC is, so far, fantastic fun.

(BTW, meant to type diminished, not dismissed).

#92 Hitch

Hitch

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1219 posts

Posted 06 June 2008 - 07:31 PM

"Fandom is where people come together and complain about what they like."

:tup:

#93 Roebuck

Roebuck

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1870 posts

Posted 06 June 2008 - 08:55 PM

What can I say. I'm trying. I guess I do like everything. Or maybe I just don't let those things that I don't like spoil into my overall enjoyment and drive my judgment. James Bond is, after all, what I turn to for fun. And DMC is, so far, fantastic fun.


I'm prepared to admit I have no critical faculties when it comes to DMC. I felt the story has enough momentum that I could put any niggles I had behind me quite quickly. Sure, the plot is complete nonsense, but accepting that I just got on and enjoyed the book.

#94 neversaynever

neversaynever

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 370 posts

Posted 06 June 2008 - 10:50 PM

200 pages in now and my enthusiasm as not diminished one bit.

Come on Zencat is there nothing you don't like. I agree with you about Young Bond. Far better than the idea deserved. The Moneypenny Diaries I think are the real thing. But Devil May Care is a pretty mediocre pastiche that has a few well written passages. All it shows to me is how underated Fleming was. Maybe not by us but by the intelligentia at large. For someone who's a screenwriter you must admit the basic plot is a bit thin. In fact it really reminds me of early Gardner. And that is not a compliment. Oh well better than Benson, and that also is not a compliment.

What can I say. I'm trying. I guess I do like everything. Or maybe I just don't let those things that I don't like spoil into my overall enjoyment and drive my judgment. James Bond is, after all, what I turn to for fun. And DMC is, so far, fantastic fun.


Bear in mind that this is from the person who said of Die Another Day: "it was, indeed, the BEST James Bond movie I had ever seen".

Sorry Zencat, but I think you've shown in the past that your love for all things Bond has a tendency to take over from any critical faculties, and this might be another example of that!! :tup:

#95 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 06 June 2008 - 11:04 PM

I think expectations for this book were ridiculously high. Look back at some of these threads. DMC was instantly named the best continuation novel of all time as soon as Faulks was announced. Ironically, I seemed to be the only fan expressing some wait and see caution (more privately than public). I was not convinced DMC was going to work. I didn't care that the author was Sebastian Faulks. Writing a good Bond is tricky stuff, and the "writing as Ian Fleming" spooked me. Now, I think I'm the only fan expressing elation. DMC has vastly surpassed my own expectations. I think it's a ripping good Bond adventure that I would put among the best continuations novels. Of course, I haven't finished it yet -- maybe it all falls apart in the last 50 pages -- but I don't think so.

Bear in mind that this is from the person who said of Die Another Day: "it was, indeed, the BEST James Bond movie I had ever seen".

Sorry Zencat, but I think you've shown in the past that your love for all things Bond has a tendency to take over from any critical faculties, and this might be another example of that!! :tup:

Ouch. Touche. :tup:

You know, you might be dead right about that. But it is a very happy place here on planet zencat. I wish more fans could let go and join me here.

For the record, I went ballistic on LTK after seeing it in 1989, so I don't instantly love everything (although I do now enjoy LTK.)

#96 MarkA

MarkA

    Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • PipPip
  • 697 posts
  • Location:South East, England

Posted 06 June 2008 - 11:45 PM

You know, you might be dead right about that. But it is a very happy place here on planet zencat. I wish more fans could let go and join me here.

You know what I wish sometimes I could. Some people put it down as good old British cynicism, but I know as far as I am concerned it is being a Bond idealist. Everything must measure up to those early films I saw in the late 60's to early 70's when I first became a fan and also to those even more wonderful books. And do you know what out of all the continuation novels only Kingsley Amis comes close. But occasionally I enter it. Like when I first saw Casino Royale, so there is hope. It

#97 neversaynever

neversaynever

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 370 posts

Posted 06 June 2008 - 11:45 PM

So the trick was to have low expectations and then have DMC exceed them? Good plan.

I didn't consciously have high expectations - and with my disappointment at Double or Die and Hurricane Gold, you would think I was used to having my hopes dashed in the world of literary Bond - but somehow DMC still managed to disappoint me more than anything by Higson.

I think with Higson I can always attempt to justify my feelings, and excuse any quibbles, on the basis that they are supposed to be children's books.

Faulks doesn't have that excuse...

#98 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 07 June 2008 - 12:10 AM

You know, you might be dead right about that. But it is a very happy place here on planet zencat. I wish more fans could let go and join me here.

You know what I wish sometimes I could. Some people put it down as good old British cynicism, but I know as far as I am concerned it is being a Bond idealist. Everything must measure up to those early films I saw in the late 60's to early 70's when I first became a fan and also to those even more wonderful books.

IMO, that's the key to understanding why long time fans are continually disappointed. It's not just that you want films to measure up to those first magic movies (and books), it's that you want them to repeat the magic as seen through 10-year-old eyes, which will never happen. Wait another 10 years and look at these boards and you'll hear fans in their 30s bemoaning how the current films just don't measure up to the magic of seeing GoldenEye in 1995. The movies still work their magic. This site and all the young people here are evidence of that.

For us older fans...I don't know what to tell you. It's probably healthy that the current films (or books) don't work in the way they once did. But for me, and my arrested development, I can still catch a taste in the new. And the fact that I can still feel, if just for a second, the Bondian purity of experience I felt watching The Spy Who Loved Me in 1977...it's like a minor miracle and I just go wild (and, yes, my critical faculties revert to a time when I didn't have any critical faculties -- just a love of fun and fantasy).

However, I think DMC genuinely kicks :tup: and will be that magic first book experience for many young fans.

#99 K1Bond007

K1Bond007

    Commander RNVR

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4932 posts
  • Location:Illinois

Posted 07 June 2008 - 01:49 AM

You know, you might be dead right about that. But it is a very happy place here on planet zencat. I wish more fans could let go and join me here.

For the record, I went ballistic on LTK after seeing it in 1989, so I don't instantly love everything (although I do now enjoy LTK.)


I'm with you. I'm an incredibly slow reader to tell you the truth and I've been incredibly busy this week so I'm not even done with it (50 pages left and I haven't read it for a few days now). But, I don't really think it's all that bad like what people are saying. It's not the greatest book, but it's not bad either. It's certainly one of the better continuation novels. The very best probably written by Higson (it's odd to say, but it's probably true) though shamefully I must admit I have not read all the Gardner's because I typically get about half way through his books before I start chucking them against the wall. :tup:

In Faulk's defense I will say it's hard taking something that isn't yours and forging a new story attempting to stay in the same style and feel. I admit I expected better than what I'm reading, but at the same time DMC really isn't that bad and the only person who can trump Ian Fleming and give us a masterful James Bond 007 novel is Ian Fleming. Amis didn't do so hot either and he's considered one of the greatest authors of the past century, ranked typically above Fleming. I would think Faulks would have had more success had he not imitated Fleming and just done his own thing. And what would have been so bad about that? Fleming experimented all the time with Bond. Look at The Spy Who Loved Me! Whatever, at times I admit I feel the book borders on parody and the book is not as thrilling as it probably should be, but that said it's not a bad book. I actually like what I've read.

Oh and zencat, I'm a youngin' compared to you, but every Bond movie I've walked out of in the theater I had a pretty big smile on my face. All of them except Die Another Day, which I was ... embarrassed by. You know those movies you love so much that when someone who has never seen them wants to watch one you get all excited to see it again with them. Bond movies (lets say EON only) are like that for me, but if you ask me to watch Die Another Day or A View to a Kill with you, I'll leave you to yourself. (This actually happened on Chuck, the TV show, and it pained me he introduced someone to James Bond with A View to a Kill)

#100 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 07 June 2008 - 01:54 AM

This just in. For those who know Greg Bechtloff -- or know of Greg Bechtloff -- he's allowed me to pass on his opinion of DMC:

"I think its actually THE best continuation novel ever written."

And Greg is not an emotional fanboy like me. In fact, he makes fun of me. Greg is a tough, critical, well studied Fleming/Bond aficionado.

So we DMC fans have at least one 10,000 pound gorilla on our side. :tup:

#101 sharpshooter

sharpshooter

    Commander

  • Executive Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8996 posts

Posted 07 June 2008 - 01:57 AM

This just in. For those who know Greg Bechtloff -- or know of Greg Bechtloff -- he's allowed me to pass on his opinion of DMC:

"I think its actually THE best continuation novel ever written."

And Greg is not an emotional fanboy like me. In fact, he makes fun of me. Greg is a tough, critical, well studied Fleming/Bond aficionado.

So we DMC fans are not alone. :tup:


Well, whoever he is, he's easily pleased. :tup:

#102 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 07 June 2008 - 01:59 AM

Well, whoever he is, he's easily pleased. :tup:

Trust me, he isn't. And he does not praise often, especially in regards to continuation novels.

#103 sharpshooter

sharpshooter

    Commander

  • Executive Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8996 posts

Posted 07 June 2008 - 02:24 AM

Young Bond is a concept that people can hate without even looking at a single page. I

#104 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 07 June 2008 - 02:28 AM

I cut the part about Greg not liking YB. Don't want to speak for him. And I posted that for people who know Greg. He is a true expert and a major part of the Bond fan community, but he doesn't post online (or so he says). I'm not trying to influence anyone. And when it comes to opinion, I wouldn't say there is a right or wrong, no matter which side holds a majority.

#105 sharpshooter

sharpshooter

    Commander

  • Executive Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8996 posts

Posted 07 June 2008 - 02:31 AM

Yeah, don

#106 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 07 June 2008 - 02:35 AM

Yeah, maybe we can bait Greg onto the boards. I've been trying to get him to post. But controlling himself and not getting involved in the online world is just another reason Greg is a better man than I. :tup:

Who would have thought DMC would turn out to be such a hot button.

#107 whiteskwirl

whiteskwirl

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 163 posts
  • Location:Taiwan

Posted 07 June 2008 - 03:06 AM

I just found an article from The Times which quoted from my review of Devil May Care. Awesome.

http://entertainment...icle4083541.ece

#108 sharpshooter

sharpshooter

    Commander

  • Executive Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8996 posts

Posted 07 June 2008 - 03:10 AM

Very well done. It must be fairly decent to make The Times, Bond

#109 Harmsway

Harmsway

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 13293 posts

Posted 07 June 2008 - 07:12 AM

For us older fans...I don't know what to tell you. It's probably healthy that the current films (or books) don't work in the way they once did.

I don't know. As a longtime fan with some pretty critical words about the state of the Bond film franchise over the years, I found a new favorite in 2006's CASINO ROYALE. So I'd hardly say that my expectations as a Bond fan are unreachable.

And having finally started in on DEVIL MAY CARE, I do think it's fun. But with a name like Sebastian Faulks attached, it should be far better than it is. And I don't believe that it's just a matter of nostalgia for the old Fleming novels that's forcing me to see DEVIL MAY CARE as an inferior experience.

#110 MarkA

MarkA

    Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • PipPip
  • 697 posts
  • Location:South East, England

Posted 07 June 2008 - 07:34 AM

For us older fans...I don't know what to tell you. It's probably healthy that the current films (or books) don't work in the way they once did.

I don't know. As a longtime fan with some pretty critical words about the state of the Bond film franchise over the years found a new favorite in CASINO ROYALE. So I'd hardly say that my expectations as a Bond fan are unreachable.

I agree CASINO ROYALE finally made all us older fans realize "it can be done", and we were not living in a rose tinted 10 year old land. It is just with all the hype surrounding this book and the supposed reputation of Faulks I expected something a whole lot better. But hey Zencat, you are lucky, I have been bemoaning the Bond series since Roger Moore took over and that took over 30 years till they brought out another decent film, so maybe I need to wait a bit longer for the great continuation novel.

#111 ACE

ACE

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4543 posts

Posted 07 June 2008 - 07:36 AM

MarkA, is DMC better than the Gardner books and if so, which ones?

#112 Jim

Jim

    Commander RNVR

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 14266 posts
  • Location:Oxfordshire

Posted 07 June 2008 - 08:15 AM

However, I think DMC genuinely kicks :tup: and will be that magic first book experience for many young fans.


Good point; we all come to Bond (the pretension of that statement overwhelms me) in a variety of different ways, but it would be extremely disappointing if someone were to start and stop with Devil May Care. Due to its immense success, I do hope new fans read further. First Bond I read was Nobody Lives Forever and it was that magic first book experience. On reflection it may not be a very good book at all, but it's the one Bond I have never re-read as I don't want it to disappoint me.

Devil May Care is decent Bond (if a bit too recognisably Bond, but that I suspect is the point) but very poor Faulks. In the long run, I suspect that it will rebound on him (I wish him no ill) more than on Bond. If the excuse is that he wrote it "as Ian Fleming" the final product isn't much of a compliment. He wrote it as Sebastian Faulks and that's where my disappointment lies. I had never read any other fiction by Gardner or Amis, or obviously Benson, before I read their Bond but, having read Faulks' other stuff, this could have been so much more distinctive. I set my expectations high for this one; wouldn't have done the same for someone unknown or less well-known and if Gardner or Benson had chucked this one out, I would probably be far more positive. It is, I agree, among the best of the continuation novels but the "as Ian Fleming" suggests not just continuation but equivalence - nope.

It was worth doing, and it's been done reasonably well and should sell well and ultimately we're fooling ourselves if we think this is anything other than commercial decision that has paid off spectacularly.

#113 ACE

ACE

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4543 posts

Posted 07 June 2008 - 08:36 AM

However, I think DMC genuinely kicks :tup: and will be that magic first book experience for many young fans.


Good point; we all come to Bond (the pretension of that statement overwhelms me) in a variety of different ways, but it would be extremely disappointing if someone were to start and stop with Devil May Care. Due to its immense success, I do hope new fans read further. First Bond I read was Nobody Lives Forever and it was that magic first book experience. On reflection it may not be a very good book at all, but it's the one Bond I have never re-read as I don't want it to disappoint me.

Devil May Care is decent Bond (if a bit too recognisably Bond, but that I suspect is the point) but very poor Faulks. In the long run, I suspect that it will rebound on him (I wish him no ill) more than on Bond. If the excuse is that he wrote it "as Ian Fleming" the final product isn't much of a compliment. He wrote it as Sebastian Faulks and that's where my disappointment lies. I had never read any other fiction by Gardner or Amis, or obviously Benson, before I read their Bond but, having read Faulks' other stuff, this could have been so much more distinctive. I set my expectations high for this one; wouldn't have done the same for someone unknown or less well-known and if Gardner or Benson had chucked this one out, I would probably be far more positive. It is, I agree, among the best of the continuation novels but the "as Ian Fleming" suggests not just continuation but equivalence - nope.

It was worth doing, and it's been done reasonably well and should sell well and ultimately we're fooling ourselves if we think this is anything other than commercial decision that has paid off spectacularly.

Fantastic post, Jim :tup: :( :)

For most people (even here on CBn), Devil May Care will be the first Bond novel they have read. They will enjoy it - it is very definitely litBond but with some film tropes.

Devil May Care should steer some people to the literary Bond and if a fraction pick up, enjoy and devour Fleming (and Amis, Pearson, Gardner and Benson), then it will have been more than just a financial and literary success (yes, Groaniad readers love Faulks Fleming) but also a Bondian success.

#114 Safari Suit

Safari Suit

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5099 posts
  • Location:UK

Posted 07 June 2008 - 08:42 AM

I thought it was great, for the first 100 pages or so. Now I'm struggling to finish it and wondering if I should read something else, unfortunately.

#115 dee-bee-five

dee-bee-five

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2227 posts

Posted 07 June 2008 - 09:57 AM

You know, you might be dead right about that. But it is a very happy place here on planet zencat. I wish more fans could let go and join me here.

You know what I wish sometimes I could. Some people put it down as good old British cynicism, but I know as far as I am concerned it is being a Bond idealist. Everything must measure up to those early films I saw in the late 60's to early 70's when I first became a fan and also to those even more wonderful books.

IMO, that's the key to understanding why long time fans are continually disappointed. It's not just that you want films to measure up to those first magic movies (and books), it's that you want them to repeat the magic as seen through 10-year-old eyes, which will never happen. Wait another 10 years and look at these boards and you'll hear fans in their 30s bemoaning how the current films just don't measure up to the magic of seeing GoldenEye in 1995. The movies still work their magic. This site and all the young people here are evidence of that.

For us older fans...I don't know what to tell you. It's probably healthy that the current films (or books) don't work in the way they once did. But for me, and my arrested development, I can still catch a taste in the new. And the fact that I can still feel, if just for a second, the Bondian purity of experience I felt watching The Spy Who Loved Me in 1977...it's like a minor miracle and I just go wild (and, yes, my critical faculties revert to a time when I didn't have any critical faculties -- just a love of fun and fantasy).


You are so, so right. I'm old enough to have seen some of the later 60s Bond in the cinema, but I have never developed this "the-new-Bond-stuff-doesn't-measure-up-to-the-old" mentality which seems to have infected many of the older fans. That's why Casino Royale became my favourite Bond film in 2006, displacing OHMSS after decades of being my favourite. Like you, TSWLM in '77 was a moment of magic for me, but I wouldn't dismiss anything that came after it simply because it couldn't recapture the magic of where I was and who I was 31 years ago.

I haven't liked everything new in Bond. I abominated the Gardner books (although I bought each one in hardback hoping he would improve), which I thought were badly-written rubbish (and Gardner wrote one of my favourite books, so it wasn't blind prejudice). But what seems to have happened with DMC is that some fans have been waiting to be disappointed and are seizing on any tiny thing to criticise the book. But what did they expect? SF is not IF and never could be. But he has produced an entertaining romp which will not win many prizes but which might encourage somepeople who have never read Fleming to do so. Job done.

Do I think DMC is the best continuation novel? No. For me Colonel Sun is that (and, in my opinion, a better book than either Diamonds Are Forever or The Man With The Golden Gun). But it is certainly much more fun, and better written, than many on here will allow.

And when it comes to opinion, I wouldn't say there is a right or wrong, no matter which side holds a majority.


Quite. It's subjective. No-one is right and no-one is wrong.

Edited by dee-bee-five, 07 June 2008 - 09:53 AM.


#116 MarkA

MarkA

    Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • PipPip
  • 697 posts
  • Location:South East, England

Posted 07 June 2008 - 10:21 AM

I haven't liked everything new in Bond. I abominated the Gardner books (although I bought each one in hardback hoping he would improve), which I thought were badly-written rubbish (and Gardner wrote one of my favourite books, so it wasn't blind prejudice). But what seems to have happened with DMC is that some fans have been waiting to be disappointed and are seizing on any tiny thing to criticise the book. But what did they expect? SF is not IF and never could be. But he has produced an entertaining romp which will not win many prizes but which might encourage somepeople who have never read Fleming to do so. Job done.

I think you kind of miss the point here, even though in many respects we are on the same page (re. yours comments on Gardner which I totally agree with. In fact I have a confession to make after about the 9nth book I gave up reading them. But I think Benson is worse). The thing is I never wait to be disappointed. I am an idealist who goes into every film and book hoping it will be the best thing ever, and boy you should have seen the smile on my face when I came out of CASINO ROYALE. I could finally recommend a Bond film to non-Bond fans again with out being embarrassed. But Faulks book is really not that good. Better written I grant you. But flat and uninspired. I truly believe he was the wrong man for the job. Also whole heartily agree with you about Colonel Sun by the way.

#117 Trident

Trident

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2658 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 07 June 2008 - 10:45 AM

However, I think DMC genuinely kicks :tup: and will be that magic first book experience for many young fans.


Good point; we all come to Bond (the pretension of that statement overwhelms me) in a variety of different ways, but it would be extremely disappointing if someone were to start and stop with Devil May Care. Due to its immense success, I do hope new fans read further. First Bond I read was Nobody Lives Forever and it was that magic first book experience. On reflection it may not be a very good book at all, but it's the one Bond I have never re-read as I don't want it to disappoint me.

Devil May Care is decent Bond (if a bit too recognisably Bond, but that I suspect is the point) but very poor Faulks. In the long run, I suspect that it will rebound on him (I wish him no ill) more than on Bond. If the excuse is that he wrote it "as Ian Fleming" the final product isn't much of a compliment. He wrote it as Sebastian Faulks and that's where my disappointment lies. I had never read any other fiction by Gardner or Amis, or obviously Benson, before I read their Bond but, having read Faulks' other stuff, this could have been so much more distinctive. I set my expectations high for this one; wouldn't have done the same for someone unknown or less well-known and if Gardner or Benson had chucked this one out, I would probably be far more positive. It is, I agree, among the best of the continuation novels but the "as Ian Fleming" suggests not just continuation but equivalence - nope.

It was worth doing, and it's been done reasonably well and should sell well and ultimately we're fooling ourselves if we think this is anything other than commercial decision that has paid off spectacularly.

Fantastic post, Jim :tup: :( :)

For most people (even here on CBn), Devil May Care will be the first Bond novel they have read. They will enjoy it - it is very definitely litBond but with some film tropes.

Devil May Care should steer some people to the literary Bond and if a fraction pick up, enjoy and devour Fleming (and Amis, Pearson, Gardner and Benson), then it will have been more than just a financial and literary success (yes, Groaniad readers love Faulks Fleming) but also a Bondian success.




As I still haven't been able to finish it, I refrain from final judgement about 'Devil May Care'. Well, it's still not a big secret that I felt decidedly underwhelmed by the part I've read so far. I will probably try to pick it up again and plow through it once I manage to get over my initial diappointment and forget about the ridiculous hype that came with DMC.

In my opinion there is absolutely nothing wrong with people liking DMC and if it really manages to bring new readers to lit Bond, this would be a tremendous success not just for lit Bond but likewise for the frenchise as a whole and in fact all of Bond-fandom. And, as far as I can see, DMC seems to really achieve this to a degree.

My private disappointment with DMC mainly stems from my own (ludicrously) high expectations I had in such a superb, talented fist-rate writer as Faulks taking on the challenge to write a Bond novel. I was expecting a really, really outstanding thriller that would be able to satisfy on the literary level as well as where sheer enjoyment and 'thrill' was concerned. I expected to get something like the square of 'You Only Live Twice' by someone like Greene or Ambler. Well, I didn't get it. As it is I'm probably slamming DMC most of all for what it could have been in my fantasy, but ultimately failed to be.

But I also have problems with DMC that I think can be justified with a certain amount of objectivity. For one thing, it could have done with a liberate degree of proof-reading it obviously didn't get by somebody more familiar with Bond. Some minor quirks could have been avoided oh so easily. And some major ones concerning plotting, contrieved dating, irritatingly numerous 'Bond-referencing' and the awkward 'character-dropping' with no real purpose might have been ironed-out had there been the proficiency of a seasoned editor at hand. An absence that I feel is sadly missed. I daresay that DMC, the way it was published, was largely done so because of the publicity hype that was created around it and the impact of Faulks' literate name behind it. Had it been found in this very form by some writer X on some Bond-fanfic forum, I doubt a serious publisher would have bothered to give it a second glance, let alone bring it to print. And that's my major problem with DMC. In German we have a word for lazily done work without much care or passion: hingerotzt. And that's how I feel DMC has been done in the end. A mere whimsy, pulpy lump of paper that sells spectacularly but ultimately not real work, not real writing. Done with a casual shrug. And that's what I take badly about DMC.

#118 MarkA

MarkA

    Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • PipPip
  • 697 posts
  • Location:South East, England

Posted 07 June 2008 - 11:21 AM

But I also have problems with DMC that I think can be justified with a certain amount of objectivity. For one thing, it could have done with a liberate degree of proof-reading it obviously didn't get by somebody more familiar with Bond. Some minor quirks could have been avoided oh so easily. And some major ones concerning plotting, contrieved dating, irritatingly numerous 'Bond-referencing' and the awkward 'character-dropping' with no real purpose might have been ironed-out had there been the proficiency of a seasoned editor at hand. An absence that I feel is sadly missed. I daresay that DMC, the way it was published, was largely done so because of the publicity hype that was created around it and the impact of Faulks' literate name behind it. Had it been found in this very form by some writer X on some Bond-fanfic forum, I doubt a serious publisher would have bothered to give it a second glance, let alone bring it to print. And that's my major problem with DMC. In German we have a word for lazily done work without much care or passion: hingerotzt. And that's how I feel DMC has been done in the end. A mere whimsy, pulpy lump of paper that sells spectacularly but ultimately not real work, not real writing. Done with a casual shrug. And that's what I take badly about DMC.


Superb summing up. Just as I feel about the whole thing. Above all it was a marketing exercise to raise Fleming's profile.

#119 ACE

ACE

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4543 posts

Posted 07 June 2008 - 12:14 PM

...on Gardner... I have a confession to make after about the 9nth book I gave up reading them. But I think Benson is worse.

So, Mark A, you only got up to the 9th Gardner, Brokenclaw in 1990.
So, by your reckoning, Devil May Care is the best Bond novel in nearly 20 years (assuming you liked it less than all the preceding the Gardners - you preferred it to the Bensons).

Surely that would be worth celebrating?
Surely, as a literary Bond fan, it would be good to know that a Bond novel is No.1 on the bestseller lists?

No doubt you were disappointed by DMC. I was too.
But isn't the bigger picture more a cause of happiness and enthusiasm?

C'mon, MarkA, break a smile on some aspect of Bond.
I know Bond can't all be Ian Fleming and Sean Connery but we've known and accepted that since at least 1973. C'mon, join the party. It's only meant to be fun after all!

#120 sharpshooter

sharpshooter

    Commander

  • Executive Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8996 posts

Posted 07 June 2008 - 12:52 PM

I am not addressing specific criticisms of DMC.

Oh, but you should. There are plenty.

I fail to understand why people who doggedly plough on reading book after book and seeing film after film persist in doing so.

Because we are Bond fans, and we have favourites. It is ok to not like something, and it is a bit forced to want to like it. I will not say I like DMC when I do not. When we say what we think and feel, we are labelled negative and psychologist's look into reasons why that may be. In my opinion, the book is just plain boring in the last half. Even the most disappointing forms of entertainment have redeeming features. The first half is alright, but nothing exciting or standout. On the whole the book is a letdown.

If only they brought the same energy to the stuff they are enthusiastic about.


Oh, I have the passion for Bond. It is just a shame that Faulks did not.
EDIT: Ah, you've edited your post ACE.