57 replies to this topic

[Bondian]

I think the final lines will be thus.

Agent Fields "After only two hours since Casino Royale. Do you think you'd ever get stiff again.

Bond "Yes. Considerably".

Agent Fields "How's your lamb"

Bond "Screw the lamb".

[stamper]

Back to serious, if you listen closely to the latest production report video, at one point, Craig let's on the ending of the movie, and is quickly cut off. I'm more and more certain they are going that route (and are playing with us letting some spoilers expetly hidden into the featurettes).

[sharpshooter]

Seeing as this is presumably going to carry over to the third Craig film, I will be interested indeed to how they end the film.

[stamper]

Just remember how the FRWL novel ended... pure Fleming... pure Bond !

[Loomis]

Well, I would think you'd need an improved version of TMWTGG to close out the whole thing, wouldn't you? Just think: M attacked in her own office by a deranged 007! The possibilities are endless.

Nah. I find that storyline ridiculous to the point of absurdity, and I hope the cinematic Bond never touches it. By far Fleming's weakest hour.

I actually think that it could work in this BOND BEGINS era, simply because A. Bond is still a wet-behind-the-ears loose cannon brimming with youthful arrogance and less than Yoda-esque expert judgement and wisdom (see CASINO ROYALE and no doubt QUANTUM OF SOLACE too), and B. Bond, being a fresh Double-O, has yet to come to know and trust M 100%.

I can easily picture villains manipulating a captured Craig's Bond and getting him to the point where he's in M's office pointing a gun at her and thinking it. It'd really chime with the content and tone of the Craig era to date, actually. I mean, Bond isn't yet the Bond he's going to be - GOLDENEYE, TOMORROW NEVER DIES, THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH and DIE ANOTHER DAY haven't happened yet.

[Shrublands]

I mean, Bond isn't yet the Bond he's going to be - GOLDENEYE, TOMORROW NEVER DIES, THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH and DIE ANOTHER DAY haven't happened yet.

But I don’t think this Bond ever becomes that Bond. I don’t think that is what the re-boot is all about.

I don’t mean that each actor’s interpretation is separate from another’s, for example I don’t think the Bond of FYEO remembers flying in the space shuttle a couple of years earlier. But I do think the Bond that escaped on a pair of skies from Piz Gloria had full recall of killing Grant on the Orient Express.

And I don’t think the Bond we see now (in CR and QoS) is at the beginning of a road and that there is an invisible car driven by a smarmy, ageing, plastic, male-model type at the end of it.

[Loomis]

[quote name='Shrublands' post='853625' date='25 March 2008 - 17:26'][quote name='Loomis' post='853618' date='25 March 2008 - 17:02']I mean, Bond isn't yet the Bond he's going to be - GOLDENEYE, TOMORROW NEVER DIES, THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH and DIE ANOTHER DAY haven't happened yet. [/quote]

But I don

[Shrublands]

But you could look at it like that, with Dench's M as the obvious connecting strand. Although where the The Craig Era Is A Prequel For The Brosnan Era Theory™ leaves the rest of the series is anyone's guess.

Now that is mischievous of you.

[stamper]

"But... Bond... I am your MOTHER !"

[Mr. Blofeld]

[quote name='Shrublands' post='853625' date='25 March 2008 - 13:26']And I don

[Shrublands]

[quote name='Mr. Blofeld' post='853654' date='25 March 2008 - 18:05'][quote name='Shrublands' post='853625' date='25 March 2008 - 13:26']And I don

[BoogieBond]

"But... Bond... I am your MOTHER !"

LOL
I would like to see Craig's face if that happened.

An ending similar to the ending of the Literary FRWL , YOLT or Moonraker would be great though(and a little shocking to MovieBond lovers).

[Shrublands]

An ending similar to the ending of the Literary FRWL , YOLT or Moonraker would be great though(and a little shocking to MovieBond lovers).

With this implied

[stamper]

Good too, but a bit lacking. I'm all for a FRWL like ending. This will allow this Bond movie to pass up the 800 million dollars mark worldwide. I mean, when was the last time bond was ------ on screen ?

[Harmsway]

I actually think that it could work in this BOND BEGINS era, simply because A. Bond is still a wet-behind-the-ears loose cannon brimming with youthful arrogance and less than Yoda-esque expert judgement and wisdom (see CASINO ROYALE and no doubt QUANTUM OF SOLACE too), and B. Bond, being a fresh Double-O, has yet to come to know and trust M 100%.

Sorry, Loomis, but that just sounds silly to me. It's far more credulity-stretching than the M's apartment moment in CASINO ROYALE, and that was ludicrous enough for my tastes. It's one thing to have Bond be a loose cannon to a certain degree, but we also need to tone it down as Bond matures. Not make it worse.

The problem with the event is that there's no way in hell it can be believably structured that M would take Bond back. It was barely believable that M would keep him around after he was such a in CASINO ROYALE, but you have him convinced by enemy agents to attack his boss and you've seriously stepped over the line.

It was ludicrous in Fleming, when M had developed a long-lasting affection for Bond, and it will seem even more ridiculous here at the beginning of Bond's career, where he's been nothing but risky since day 1.

[Loomis]

Well, I can't disagree with any of that, but then again I've given a pass to a whole raft of ludicrous things in both the Eon series and Fleming, and even in the great CASINO ROYALE (e.g. the M's apartment break-in you mention). But then I'm someone for whom DIE ANOTHER DAY is a blast of a Bond movie that works brilliantly.

"The problem with the event is that there's no way in hell it can be believably structured that M would take Bond back. It was barely believable that M would keep him around after he was such a **** in CASINO ROYALE, but you have him convinced by enemy agents to attack his boss and you've seriously stepped over the line."

My view: if it's good enough for Fleming (although not exactly his finest moment, admittedly) then it's good enough. Or at least, good enough to be considered as a possible idea that could be reworked and updated for future Bond film use.

You mention M's long-lasting affection for Bond, but M doesn't keep Bond around in THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN because he likes him (and it's made fairly abundantly clear to the point of being hammered into the ground throughout the Brosnan era and CR that Dench's M virtually loathes 007 as a person!) - he does so because he feels he may still be a useful blunt instrument. It's made plain in TMWTGG that M just wants to squeeze more mileage out of Bond, and to use the Russians' new weapon against them. If Bond isn't up to the job, too bad for Bond, but M hardly has anything to lose by giving him a go. The novel also makes it clear that Bond is remorseful over the incident and fired up with new hatred for the enemy. So it's not exactly as though Bond tries to kill M, only for M to say "Tut tut, don't do that again, old boy, now be a good chap and return to your usual duties." It's not LICENCE TO KILL!

[tdalton]

I actually think that it could work in this BOND BEGINS era, simply because A. Bond is still a wet-behind-the-ears loose cannon brimming with youthful arrogance and less than Yoda-esque expert judgement and wisdom (see CASINO ROYALE and no doubt QUANTUM OF SOLACE too), and B. Bond, being a fresh Double-O, has yet to come to know and trust M 100%.

Sorry, Loomis, but that just sounds silly to me. It's far more credulity-stretching than the M's apartment moment in CASINO ROYALE, and that was ludicrous enough for my tastes. It's one thing to have Bond be a loose cannon to a certain degree, but we also need to tone it down as Bond matures. Not make it worse.

The problem with the event is that there's no way in hell it can be believably structured that M would take Bond back. It was barely believable that M would keep him around after he was such a in CASINO ROYALE, but you have him convinced by enemy agents to attack his boss and you've seriously stepped over the line.

It was ludicrous in Fleming, when M had developed a long-lasting affection for Bond, and it will seem even more ridiculous here at the beginning of Bond's career, where he's been nothing but risky since day 1.

I will agree that is was rather amazing that M actually took Bond back after the beginning of Fleming's TMWTGG, and that I'd much rather see the films move in a more serious tone rather than the ridiculous tone that have been a part of the films for a while, and that there still are elements of even in CASINO ROYALE. But, with that said, I would love to see what the beginning of TMWTGG would look like on screen. I can imagine it being filmed in that kind of washed out look that the scene in CASINO ROYALE where Bond is in the bathroom with the salt shaker and glass trying to vomit up the poison from the martini, and how that whole scene could have a genuinely creepy feeling to it. Also, just imagine the shock that the general audience who has never read the novel would have when Bond tries to take out M seconds before the film goes into the title sequence.

Granted, the idea is ridiculous, especially given how in the novel there is no mention made of how much or how long Bond is in the mental rehabilitation program before being allowed to go back out on the job (not that this is all that realistic either, but in terms of reality within the Bond universe, it could conceivably be explained in something resembling a plausible way). But, IMO, it would look so cool on the screen that I'd be willing to sacrifice reality for a few minutes just to see what that sequence would look like on the big screen.

Also, in the novel, M basically says that he knows that he's sending Bond out to his death when he assigns him the Scaramanga job in the novel. Although he does sound a bit remorseful about that in the novel, I think that it could be twisted around a bit to make it so that M is sending Bond out to face his death and not having to think one second about it, and actually taking some form of joy in it as an act of revenge against him for his actions.

[Loomis]

It'd make a heck of a PTS, not just because of the attempt on M's life, but also because of how Fleming lays the groundwork: Bond's grooming by the Russians, his arrival in London, his contact with his employers and their response, the Hard Man and the Soft Man, and so on. Could be a very interesting and suspenseful opening sequence, and all the realistic-seeming British secret service procedure that unravels to deal with the sudden reappearance of Bond would counterbalance the "ridiculous" element of 007 attempting M's life.

Although I don't actually see why the idea of Bond being "welcomed" (although that's definitely not the right word) back into the Service after trying to kill M would seem any more ludicrous than the idea of the Service sending its best gambler to take down a villain who's trying to win back historic stock market losses at a casino, or the idea of M giving Bond a pass for shooting Mollaka and breaking into her flat, or Bond almost dying about three times in one evening yet still looking fine in his tux before being given the genital torture treatment shortly after which he can still apparently "perform", etc., etc. Let alone as ridiculous as invisible cars, outer space death rays, face-swapping baddies, and so on and so forth. At any rate, I can't believe it would turn out to be considered as the moment when the Bond series finally jumped the shark.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Actually, coco1997 and I are planning that for our Lazen-verse rewrite of FYEO; it'll be interesting to see, I think.

[tdalton]

It'd make a heck of a PTS, not just because of the attempt on M's life, but also because of how Fleming lays the groundwork: Bond's grooming by the Russians, his arrival in London, his contact with his employers and their response, the Hard Man and the Soft Man, and so on. Could be a very interesting and suspenseful opening sequence, and all the realistic-seeming British secret service procedure that unravels to deal with the sudden reappearance as Bond would counterbalance the "ridiculous" element of 007 attempting M's life.

Although I don't actually see why the idea of Bond being "welcomed" (although that's definitely not the right word) back into the Service after trying to kill M would seem any more ludicrous than the idea of the Service sending its best gambler to take down a villain who's trying to win back historic stock market losses at a casino, or the idea of M giving Bond a pass for shooting Mollaka and breaking into her flat, or Bond almost dying about three times in one evening yet still looking fine in his tux before being given the genital torture treatment shortly after which he can still apparently "perform", etc., etc. Let alone as ridiculous as invisible cars, outer space death rays, face-swapping baddies, and so on and so forth. At any rate, I can't believe it would turn out to be considered as the moment when the Bond series finally jumped the shark.

It just depends on how it's done as to whether or not it could be taken seriously and not as a moment where the Bond films have "jumped the shark". I do think, though, that with an actor like Daniel Craig, that it could be done extremely well. One thing, however, that needs to happen before they were to use this particular piece of Fleming for a PTS would be to introduce us to M's office and Moneypenny's (or Villier's or whoever M's secretary is) so that we have some sense of familiarity with it. After that familiarity is there, imagine the film opening from the white dots of the gun barrel sequence to shots of the interior of her office, and everything looks relatively normal, and things continue very quietly for most of the sequence until Bond appears on the scene, looking very much like Bond, but just slightly disheveled and not quite with it, so to speak. I think that it could work very well as a pre-title sequence.

One thing that could really make it work as a sequence would be to not show Bond's face (much like they've done in other PTSs) and then have that carry through all of the preliminary parts of the scene until he gets to M's office, where he's then revealed to be Bond.

[mccartney007]

I keep thinking this thread is titled "Q's climax" and I'd really care to not think about it.

[Mr. Blofeld]

It just depends on how it's done as to whether or not it could be taken seriously and not as a moment where the Bond films have "jumped the shark". I do think, though, that with an actor like Daniel Craig, that it could be done extremely well. One thing, however, that needs to happen before they were to use this particular piece of Fleming for a PTS would be to introduce us to M's office and Moneypenny's (or Villier's or whoever M's secretary is) so that we have some sense of familiarity with it. After that familiarity is there, imagine the film opening from the white dots of the gun barrel sequence to shots of the interior of her office, and everything looks relatively normal, and things continue very quietly for most of the sequence until Bond appears on the scene, looking very much like Bond, but just slightly disheveled and not quite with it, so to speak. I think that it could work very well as a pre-title sequence.

Why not just do it in M's apartment? That way, we'd be more familiar with the surroundings, and thus be jostled when Bond breaks in and tries to kill M.

[MarcAngeDraco]

Very intriguing!

If they go the route that Loomis has suggested...

Spoiler

Will we see "James Bond Will Return" at the end?...

[Harmsway]

You mention M's long-lasting affection for Bond, but M doesn't keep Bond around in THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN because he likes him

But he does keep him around because he has faith in him and his abilities. Which is more than Dench's M does in Craig's Bond at this point. Craig's Bond still has a lot of maturing to do. I might accept such a storyline, if handled correctly, in BOND 24. But in QUANTUM OF SOLACE? It's just too early in his Double-O career.

[tdalton]

You mention M's long-lasting affection for Bond, but M doesn't keep Bond around in THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN because he likes him

But he does keep him around because he has faith in him and his abilities. Which is more than Dench's M does in Craig's Bond at this point. Craig's Bond still has a lot of maturing to do. I might accept such a storyline, if handled correctly, in BOND 24. But in QUANTUM OF SOLACE? It's just too early in his Double-O career.

Agreed. I think that BOND 24 would be the absolute earliest that the beginning of THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN could be used on screen.

On a separate note about this, however, I don't think that the motive for keeping Bond in the service following his actions in the novel have to be kept the same. As you say, M doesn't have all that much faith in Bond or his abilities at this point in the rebooted franchise, but I do think that this could be worked around to somewhat faithfully adapt TMWTGG. In the novel, M says that he knows that he is probably sending Bond out on a mission that he probably won't come back from, and there is the hint of regret about this in the novel. I think that Dench's M could do the same thing to Craig's Bond in a film, but it could be done in a way for her to get rid of him, by sending him out on an assignment that she knows that he won't come back from. As we know, Bond will succeed in the mission, and his doing so could turn out to be a great surprise to M at the end of the film.

However, if what is being suggested is that the beginning of TMWTGG should be used as the ending to QoS (or any other Bond film for that matter), I don't think that it should. This sequence sets itself up perfectly for a PTS. I think that, in an ideal situation, either BOND 23 or BOND 24 would end with Fleming's YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE ending, and then have the next film follow up with the PTS being the beginning of Fleming's THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN. Actually, seeing as how very few elements from both of those novels made it into their respective films, I think that both could be readapted into film, although with different titles, and they would be different enough that comparisons wouldn't be made to EON's YOLT and TMWTGG.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Erm... M's apartment is always available, you know...

[tdalton]

Hey everybody, It has been a while since I read Fleming's DAF, but could it be that the QOS-climax will be inspired by the book's final sequences? Ghost towns, abandoned railroads stations and all that in the middle of a desert, what do you think?

That sounds as though it could be a very promising sequence if they chose to use it as the end of QUANTUM OF SOLACE. I haven't read Fleming's DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER (it's one of only a few of his novels I haven't read), but your description of it makes it sound as though this could be a very high quality sequence if EON chose to set the end of QUANTUM OF SOLACE in such a setting.

[stamper]

Hhmmmmm, I doubt it, Ghost towns are pass