63 replies to this topic

[doublenoughtspy]

I was just reading through "This month in Bond History" on the home page - the very first Thunderball lawsuit began 47 years ago on the 21st of March.

47 years later and the thing is still involved in litagation, or threats thereof. Like I said, lawsuit magnet.

I agree with the people who point out the irony of the fact that this will actually make the book more popular and sell more copies.

I agree too that the horse has left the barn. Why are they closing the barn door now? As I mentioned in my interview with Robert - his manuscript was making the rounds, what like 3 years ago now?

He did prophetically say that numerous publishers turned him down because they feared lawsuits.

But usually lawsuits involving books are done before the fact, as injunctions to prevent publishing. That didn't happen in this case.

Speaking of Mr. Sellers, I did hear back from him and he said due to the ongoing nature of the matter, he can not comment.

Oh wait, did I just quote from correspondence without clearing the copyright?

SUE ME, ARGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

I'm very sorry that Robert worked so hard to get this story told only to end up with this result.

I also fear that it will have a chilling effect on future independent Bond publishing.

I suspect (and this is a total guess on my part) that the Ian Fleming Will Trust asserts that all Fleming correspondence belongs to them, and thus must be licensed and cleared for publication.

While plenty of people here are saying that "these letters were part of the court record, surely that makes them public?" I think that some of it might have been material acquired by the defense and not necessarily entered into the court record.

I'll stop speculating now.

[zencat]

I agree with the people who point out the irony of the fact that this will actually make the book more popular and sell more copies.

I just heard on NPR yesterday that there's a name for this phenomena, it's called the 'Streisand Effect.' Interesting stuff.

[K1Bond007]

I agree with the people who point out the irony of the fact that this will actually make the book more popular and sell more copies.

I just heard on NPR yesterday that there's a name for this phenomena, it's called the 'Streisand Effect.' Interesting stuff.

This isn't a case of the "Streisand Effect". If it was, the offending material would be duplicated and show up practically everywhere on the Internet as a big " you" to the person who was doing the censoring or banning of whatever. This has only happened a few times to my knowledge. The AACS encryption key (deals with Blu-ray and HD DVD) was pretty bad last year. http://en.wikipedia....key_controversy

[Qwerty]

From K1Bond007 on the CBn main page...

Details Emerge On Second Edition Of 'The Battle For Bond'

'The Book They Tried To Ban'

[MarcAngeDraco]

At that price I may just have to buy the second edition for the sake of completeness... although that statement's very ironic all by itself...

[Dell Deaton]

Is the first edition ("complete") still available?

Or, better put: Are the books currently being sold on eBay and elsewhere the edition that includes the "objectionable" material, or advanced copies of the second, redacted edition?

[Qwerty]

Is the first edition ("complete") still available?

Or, better put: Are the books currently being sold on eBay and elsewhere the edition that includes the "objectionable" material, or advanced copies of the second, redacted edition?

I believe there are still a few of the first edition copies floating around on eBay, Abebooks, Half.com, etc.--but likely at much higher prices.

[K1Bond007]

Is the first edition ("complete") still available?

Or, better put: Are the books currently being sold on eBay and elsewhere the edition that includes the "objectionable" material, or advanced copies of the second, redacted edition?

I believe there are still a few of the first edition copies floating around on eBay, Abebooks, Half.com, etc.--but likely at much higher prices.

Fairly sure you can still get first-editions in the US for MSRP or on sale. Amazon has stock right now for 21 bucks. I'm not sure if the US edition was even effected.

[Dell Deaton]

Is the first edition...?

I believe there are still a few of the first edition....

Is the first edition...?

I believe there are still a few....

Fairly sure you can still get first-editions....

Thanks guys!

[triviachamp]

I'll stop speculating now.

Enters injunction against doublenought

[FlemingIanFleming]

Fairly sure you can still get first-editions in the US for MSRP or on sale. Amazon has stock right now for 21 bucks. I'm not sure if the US edition was even effected.

Apparently not, as Amazon is still selling first editions. I just bought one, in fact.

[Qwerty]

That seems surprising to me.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Fairly sure you can still get first-editions in the US for MSRP or on sale. Amazon has stock right now for 21 bucks. I'm not sure if the US edition was even effected.

Apparently not, as Amazon is still selling first editions. I just bought one, in fact.

Secondhand?

[K1Bond007]

Fairly sure you can still get first-editions in the US for MSRP or on sale. Amazon has stock right now for 21 bucks. I'm not sure if the US edition was even effected.

Apparently not, as Amazon is still selling first editions. I just bought one, in fact.

Secondhand?

No. First-editions. Amazon still has stock.
http://www.amazon.co.../dp/0953192636/

[Qwerty]

Now on the CBn main page...

'The Battle For Bond' Second Edition Now Available

'The Book They Tried To Ban' shipping at Amazon.co.uk

[zencat]

I'm a fan of this book, but I really don't like the whole "The book they tried to ban" thing. They imply the oh-so-hot content has something to do with this when it was simply a matter of the publisher trying to skirt copyright and use images without permission. They had to remove the images. That's hardly a "ban." I think the way they are twisting and exploiting their own screw-up is sleazy and unfair to the Ian Fleming Will Trust.

[Revelator]

Look at the blurb:

The screen version of James Bond was not Fleming’s creation. It was the creation of Jack Whittingham, who was employed by maverick producer Kevin McClory to adapt the character to the big screen. Had this screen character never been developed, James Bond might have been just another minor fictional spy character...It is the fabled story of Kevin McClory’s 40 year legal battle over the rights to the screen version of James Bond, which he and Whittingham had created.

This is a lot of deceitful crap. Whittingham took a shot at writing the character, so now he gets credited for creating Bond for the screen? So much for Terence Young, Brocolli and Saltzman, and Richard Maibaum. And so much for Ian Fleming, since by such logic the screen Bond was absolutely nothing like the literary character. Sellers book doesn't make much of a case for Whittingham's screenplay exerting much influence beyond that of its plotting, which Fleming certainly helped himself to, and which Maibaum might as well. The weakness of the book is that it's unable to prove anything more. Whittingham isn't the unsung or hidden hero of the Bond saga--he was just a journeyman screenwriter who was involved with a couple of scripts that, judging by the plot summaries and excerpts given, weren't even that great, and were mostly important because they helped clarify and strengthen the plot of what eventually became Thunderball. He and McClory created an early ur-adaptation of the character that ultimately wasn't the one we all know and love. Crediting them with Bond's successful screen incarnation would be like crediting Pete Best for Sgt.Pepper.

[MarkA]

Both above fair statements. But one, I do think the Ian Fleming Will Trust did themselves no favours and in many ways helped exploit a book only us Bond fans would have read. And two, I do think Fleming was either arrogant or just plain naive to write and publish Thunderball without the permission and/or credit of the other parties involved. I personally think no one came out of this untarnished. But I know Robert Sellers and have meet and spoken to Jack Wittingham’s daughter and lovely people they are, and they have told a story that deserved to be told. And after all, this year in particular the Ian Fleming Estate are not above a bit of over hype themselves.

[Qwerty]

His real name is Bond, Jack Bond

Sylvan Whittingham tells how her man-about-town father has been forgotten as the screenwriter who turned the original cold, sadistic 007 into the suave agent we all love

In a discreet house on a quiet street in Fulham, west London, there lives an ageing beauty with a killer secret. In her hallway hang posters of Thunderball, and on the sofa sits a jolly little puppet of Sean Connery. The walls are lined with film books, and on her desk are two boxes of dusty files, court documents and scandalous letters in a 1960s typeface.

Like a latterday Ms Moneypenny, she holds the secrets of James Bond. Her name is Whittingham. Sylvan Whittingham.

Is she Ian Fleming's daughter? God, no. Fleming's name is anathema here. Her father was Jack Whittingham, a celebrated screenwriter of the 1950s and 1960s. It was Jack, she claims, who gave us Bond as we know him.

Read more...

http://commanderbond...n...&item=47663 - The Times

[Mr. Blofeld]

I notice she attributed the "green chartreuse" anecdote to her father, when it was actually Fleming who searched out for it; ironically, her statement contradicts the story put down in the book she helped create, The Battle for Bond.

[Revelator]

I think I've had enough of the Whittinghams and their obnoxious attempts to hitch a ride to fame on Bond's coattails by inflating Jack Whittingham's contributions.

[quote]

Edited by Revelator, 30 June 2008 - 07:48 PM.

[Bonita]

Bravo!

I couldn't agree more.

Of course, Whittingham was not the first adaptation of a Bond novel to script form...But Sellers, who seems to want to promote his own importance, omits this salient fact.

Pity. Should have been a good book.

Keep dancing,
Bonita

[[dark]]

Forbidden Planet on Shaftsbury Avenue still has copies of the first edition - on sale for £3 off!

[Mr. Blofeld]

What's wrong with you folks? Fleming took portions wholesale from the screenplay (and most of his influence on it had been removed, anyway) to make the novel; there's a reason there was a court battle over it, you know...

[Revelator]

What's wrong with you folks? Fleming took portions wholesale from the screenplay (and most of his influence on it had been removed, anyway) to make the novel

No, he didn't. He used parts of the plot of the screenplay, apparently under the impression that the drafts were legally owned by Bryce's company. Saying that he took portions wholesale would mean that he stuffed bits of the screenplay--dialogue, characterization and all--into the novel. And there's no evidence of that. Yes, there was reason for the court case, but there's no reason to overrate Whittingham's influence.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Hey, all. I was just reading Andrew Lycett's biography of Ian Fleming; it's fascinating stuff.

Anyhow, as I reached the latter portions concerning the Thunderball case and Fleming's later life, the words and phrases became creepingly familiar. When I reached the part detailing Fleming's heart attack, I gasped aloud.

The passages that had struck me as being so familiar were familiar to me; they had appeared in The Battle for Bond, by Robert Sellers.

After I finished the biography, I carefully combed through Sellers' account, and phrases just jumped out at me immediately, even with words changed around. I also looked at the list of people Sellers thanked at the start of his book; Lycett doesn't get a mention.

As far as I can tell, Robert Sellers plagiarized passages wholesale from Andrew Lycett's Fleming biography in order to bulk up his work on the Thunderball plagiarism case.

Make of that what you will.

[Mr. Blofeld]

As an addendum, I don't just mean the source materials of Fleming's letters and personal correspondence; I mean Sellers actually copied some of the passages straight from Lycett's book.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I'm surprised nobody is alarmed by this.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I'll dig up some quotes tomorrow.

[zencat]

There are also large sections in the book that are VERY close to articles on the Thunderball case that appeared in Goldeneye magazine. I haven't compared them to see if they are word for word, but it's clear Sellers freely used these articles as a primary source. Wouldn't be such a huge deal, but Sellers doesn't acknowledge/credit any sources (at least not in the first edition. I haven't seen the revised).