63 replies to this topic

[Qwerty]

You read it first on CommanderBond.net...

'The Battle For Bond' To Be Pulled

'Thunderball' book in hot water...

Details Emerge On Second Edition Of 'The Battle For Bond'

'The Book They Tried To Ban'

'The Battle For Bond' Second Edition Now Available

'The Book They Tried To Ban' shipping at Amazon.co.uk

[K1Bond007]

Only Thunderball.

[Byron]

Only Thunderball.

Glad i bought my copy. One of the best books on the subject of Fleming and Bond.

[Qwerty]

Only Thunderball.

Indeed. That word seems to say it all.

[Double-Oh Agent]

Only Thunderball.

Glad i bought my copy. One of the best books on the subject of Fleming and Bond.

I completely agree with both posts.

I wonder why this is only happening now. It's not like The Battle For Bond snuck up on everyone and suddenly appeared this week. It's been out for months now. I wonder what the problem(s) is/are. Robert Sellers' book seemed entirely plausible and legitimate to me.

[sharpshooter]

Anything Thunderball related opens up a can of worms.

"Anyone who touches Thunderball, seems to die.."

[Bryce (003)]

Indeed this whole matter has been thoroughly puzzling to the Team when one of us happened across the statement on the site.

Problem is, with publishing, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube once it's out for purchase and been purchased.

The CBn Team is working on it and reaching out to the parties involved for some type of clarification and if we hear of it, we'll pass it on but beyond tossing up the news as we have it, we're as much in the scratching our heads mode as all of you.

We're staying on top of this along with all Bond news, but it does certainly raise some questions.

Certainly odd though.

"Anyone who touches Thunderball, seems to die.."

Something about having the words "touches" and "Thunderball" in the same sentence bothers me.

[Jim]

Wow...

Still, wouldn't be Thunderball if there wasn't some sort of trauma attached to it.

Amazing story.

[TheSaint]

For those of you who have not bought the book but have been meaning to, this might be the time to do so. At last check, there are a number of used copies available on both AmazonUS & UK.

[MarcAngeDraco]

An interesting development to be sure... Can't wait to hear more details...

[Simon]

Classic.

Of course the timing is hopeless, as stated this hasn't been an exercising in 'sneaking up on anyone'. I just hope this accelerates sales on what is one of, if not, The best book related to Bond.

Would be supremely interested in Sellers' reaction to this.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I'll try to get it for my upcoming birthday before it's pulled...

[Navy007Fan]

I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what the Ian Fleming Will Trust

[dee-bee-five]

One searches in vain to think of why the Fleming trustees would take this action - and now.

I must admit, when the book was first announced I feared the author would be an apologist for that wretched crook Kevin McClory. To my (pleasant) surprise, it's much more even-handed than that. From the account in the book, no-one emerged from any credit in the whole Thunderball case, although Fleming seemed guilty of nothing more than being naive. It would appear the Fleming Estate - or, more likely, their lawyers - seem happy to be added to the list of people who have acted badly/naively/stupidly over Thunderball. And it's a pity. All the people originally involved are dead. It's over now.

Edited by dee-bee-five, 29 February 2008 - 03:45 PM.

[dee-bee-five]

On the plus side, of course, if it remains pulled, its value will shoot up on ebay... Wish I'd bought two now...

[MHazard]

If you haven't read it, I highly recommend you buy a copy now. An interesting book. I think Ivar Bryce and McClory come off badly. Fleming doesn't come out well, but the implication seems to be that he essentially took a bullet for his friend Bryce as he (Fleming) had a legal loophole which he chose not to exercise. Jack Whittingham comes off best, but that's to be expected since the author's main source was Whittingham's daughter. Anyway, sorry to see it pulled. I really enjoyed the book and the evolution of the TB novel and script was interesting. I don't understand who had the authority to force it to be pulled. Why does Fleming's foundation control whether Tomahawk publishes it. Or are they threatening legal action?

[zencat]

When I read the book, my spidey sense went off at the Appendix where Sellers describes Fleming's two Thunderball treatments scene for scene. Lots of original and, until then, unpublished James Bond character and action ideas from Fleming himself. Certainly this is valuable intellectual property owned by the Fleming family. Referencing what was in the treatments as shown in court papers in the body of the text...maybe okay (or at least defensible). But including the entire treatments as an addendum in a narrative form is essentially publishing 2 unpublished Ian Fleming James Bond stories, and it's easy for me to see how that's trouble.

But this is just a guess.

[doublenoughtspy]

Why does Fleming's foundation control whether Tomahawk publishes it. Or are they threatening legal action?

I'm sure you know the difference, but just to clarify - the Ian Fleming Foundation is a non-profit organization (of which I am a member) dedicated to preserving his creative legacy. It does not own any intellectual property related to Ian Fleming.

http://www.ianflemin...on.org/main.htm

Ian Fleming Publications, the Ian Fleming Will Trust, the Fleming family banking empire, etc. are all separate entities.

[Navy007Fan]

Why does Fleming's foundation control whether Tomahawk publishes it. Or are they threatening legal action?

I'm sure you know the difference, but just to clarify - the Ian Fleming Foundation is a non-profit organization (of which I am a member) dedicated to preserving his creative legacy. It does not own any intellectual property related to Ian Fleming.

http://www.ianflemin...on.org/main.htm

Ian Fleming Publications, the Ian Fleming Will Trust, the Fleming family banking empire, etc. are all separate entities.

Any word from your organization as to what is going on, or is this a suprise to you as well?

[Napoleon Solo]

For those of you who have not bought the book but have been meaning to, this might be the time to do so. At last check, there are a number of used copies available on both AmazonUS & UK.

I just ordered it from Amazon after reading the Commander Bond story.

When I read the book, my spidy sense went off at the Appendix where Sellers describes Fleming's two Thunderball treatments scene for scene. Lots of original and, until then, unpublished James Bond character and action ideas from Fleming himself. Certainly this is valuable intellectual property owned by the Fleming family. Referencing what was in the treatments as shown in court papers in the body of the text...maybe okay (or at least defensible). But including the entire treatments as an addendum in a narrative form is essentially publishing 2 unpublished Ian Fleming James Bond stories, and it's easy for me to see how that's trouble.

But this is just a guess.

In the U.S. (and I realize the Thunderball case was fought in the U.K.), if it's a court document and the a judge hasn't sealed the case file, that's it. You can quote extensively. This is why sometimes certain documents are put under seal. But the parties involved have to ask for that to happen.

[doublenoughtspy]

Any word from your organization as to what is going on, or is this a suprise to you as well?

Well, considering I'm the one that broke the story, so to speak - it wasn't really a surprise.

I guess I wasn't clear about the Ian Fleming Foundation. It's an entity that was created by fans Doug Redenius, John Cork, and Dr. Michael Van Blaircum. I hate to use the term fans because it belies their professionalism.

The IFF has had a good relationship with the Fleming family, and I was one of the IFF team members brought in to archive Fleming's papers back in 1994. Things have changed since then though - when we did that, the rights still belonged to Booker. The Fleming family bought back all the Fleming rights from Booker a number of years ago.

Anyway - the IFF is mostly US based and has nothing to do with this Thunderball book matter. I wanted to make the distinction that it has no official ties to any Bond copyright holder, literary, film, or otherwise.

Please MHazard, and anyone else, don't confuse the Ian Fleming Foundation with Ian Fleming Publications or the Ian Fleming Will Trust.

[MarkA]

This is a real shame because this is a tremendous book and I know Robert. But it does not surprise me. I feel apart from Jack Whittingham all participants come out of this rather badly and maybe in Ian Fleming's centenary that isn

[Gobi-1]

I'm ordering it from Amazon.com as I type.

[mccartney007]

Book Soup here I come!

[Simon]

A lot of connections offering solid information - perhaps the only ones sparking interests are zencat's 'spidey sense' and the centenary connection.

But these are long shots if we are to assume only the most ardent of fans (and in this case I do mean fans, some of whom will see a film starring Connery and Catherine Zeta-Jones, and come up with the brilliant idea that Jones should be a Bond girl) will read this book, whereas the exhibitions will more likely appeal to the average museum goer.

Pulling books at this stage will serve only to heighten interest in Sellers' book, and in this perhaps it is well deserved.

But to censor information - far too late and irrelevant.

But perhaps the full and complete story has yet to emerge.

[Professor Dent]

Both interesting & confusing. At least I already own a copy.

[zencat]

A lot of connections offering solid information - perhaps the only ones sparking interests are zencat's 'spidey sense' and the centenary connection.

Nah. Looks like my theory is not correct. So much for 'spidey sense'.

[Major Tallon]

It's an excellent book, and I'm sorry to see its circulation restricted.

Perhaps there's a story to be told here: The Battle For The Battle For Bond.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Perhaps there's a story to be told here: The Battle For The Battle For Bond.

Perhaps yet another Battle will come out of it...

Still, I feel rather awful for Robert Sellers.

[K1Bond007]

But to censor information - far too late and irrelevant.

But perhaps the full and complete story has yet to emerge.

I don't think this appears to be a case of censorship.