147 replies to this topic

[Harmsway]

Another thread has the secondary Bond girl citing oil as the natural resource. Well, either 1) she has no idea, or 2) she's engaging in some form of disinformation, or 3) the plot synopsis which states "total control" is completely erroneous.

I'm going to go with #3, figuring that the plot synopsis probably overstates it. It wouldn't be the first time. Reasons #1 and #2 don't wash.

It could also be possible that there's a bit more to Greene's plan than simply taking hold of a new oil find.

[HildebrandRarity]

Another thread has the secondary Bond girl citing oil as the natural resource. Well, either 1) she has no idea, or 2) she's engaging in some form of disinformation, or 3) the plot synopsis which states "total control" is completely erroneous.

I'm going to go with #3, figuring that the plot synopsis probably overstates it. It wouldn't be the first time. Reasons #1 and #2 don't wash.

If this movie is completely and uncompromisingly about James Bond regaining or finding some measure of happiness or comfort or 'solace' with himself and the world after the loss suffered in the last instalment, then i'm ok with the 'error' and the plot points are secondary. Then fine.

If, however, this film's got "twice" (read 'more') the amount of "action" of the last picture - in 20 minutes less of run time - then it's a shoddy piece of marketing for a hugely anticipated press conference. Either that or the plot's got a gaping hole that will need some quantum of fixing.

Perhaps i'm hoping for some level of perfection from Eon...the fear being that they only have one out-and-out excellent movie per decade in them.

[Harmsway]

If this movie is completely and uncompromisingly about James Bond regaining or finding some measure of happiness or comfort or 'solace' with himself and the world after the loss suffered in the last instalment, then i'm ok with the 'error' and the plot points are secondary. Then fine.

Well, who says it's really an error? Maybe no character ever indicates that taking hold of the oil will give Dominic Greene total control or any such thing. Maybe it's just stated that he'll have a an untapped ocean of oil at his fingertips, and anything beyond that is reading into things.

And for an example of a misleading sentence in a plot summary, look at CASINO ROYALE's official plot summary. "MI6 assigns 007 to play against him, knowing that if Le Chiffre loses, it will destroy his organization." Uh, no. Not only is that never expressed in the film, it's just flat out wrong. The phrase "total control" might very well be along those lines.

[MarcAngeDraco]

And for an example of a misleading sentence in a plot summary, look at CASINO ROYALE's official plot summary. "MI6 assigns 007 to play against him, knowing that if Le Chiffre loses, it will destroy his organization." Uh, no. Not only is that never expressed in the film, it's just flat out wrong. The phrase "total control" might very well be along those lines.

Point taken. However, the entire oil plot just doesn't play out all that well, especially in a landlocked country like Bolivia with no infrastructure to get the oil out of the country. I really don't think we want to revisit the whole pipeline thing again...

[Single-O-Seven]

I know speculation is fun, but I think - no, I see - that some of us are jumping the gun. Some are beginning to panic over the movie's potential quality based on speculation which, in turn, is based on a few sketchy lines and hints. None of these hints even reveal any truly useful information upon which to begin forming opinions about the movie's plot. It's too early to say whether the oil approach is good or bad, because we don't know what that approach will even be. Maybe the oil thing is only a minor, secondary cover for something much greater (there, now I'm speculating again!), or maybe it hardly plays into the plot at all. None of us here know what will happen. By all means keep speculating, but don't get all of your panties into a bind thinking you've hit on the plot and it's not at all what you want. Chances are we're all miles off the mark (or wide of the mark as Fleming would say).

[Harmsway]

However, the entire oil plot just doesn't play out all that well, especially in a landlocked country like Bolivia with no infrastructure to get the oil out of the country.

Wouldn't that go for any natural resource?

[Harmsway]

An interesting news article from November 2007 that echoes this development:

Brazil announces new oil reserves

[MarcAngeDraco]

An interesting news article from November 2007 that echoes this development:

Brazil announces new oil reserves

But this just makes my exact point. Here's an annoucement of large new oil resources being found with no appreciable effect on the oil market or world economy.

[HildebrandRarity]

Harmsway:

An interesting news article from November 2007 that echoes this development:

Brazil announces new oil reserves

----------

Yes. So that means there is even a greater supply of oil in the pipeline, so to speak...making control of oil even further less likely.

Look at the sources of world oil:

OPEC primarily consists of the Gulf kingdoms and states (the biggest being Saudi Arabia (by far) and then Iran and further down the Emirates, et al), some African countries (the biggest being Nigeria) and then the likes of Indonesia in the far east and Venezuala in the west.

Then we have the non-OPEC countries, the very largest being China (which only recently has gone to the top of the table as producer...which, btw, is now also a very heavy consumer) and Russia, then Norway, and then Canada and Mexico and Brazil in the Americas (not counting the US because they consume WAY more than they produce.)

Throw in the UK, Australia, Kazakhstan, etc. and we have a LOT of different sources of supply that is, basically, difficult to control...one need only look at OPEC. OPEC once was an oligopoly with pricing power, notably in the the early 1970s and then again in 1979/80. But that pricing power has gone the way of the dodo bird.

Uranium (used for nuclear power generation and weaponry), on the other had, is found primarily in Western Canada and in Australia. Imagine one corporation legitimately owning the mining rights in both those countries...and that corporation having its majority shareholdings being controlled by members of the Organisation via various numbered accounts out of the Cayman Islands and Switzerland...

THAT is the stuff of James Bond movies...Not oil.

[Harmsway]

But this just makes my exact point. Here's an annoucement of large new oil resources being found with no appreciable effect on the oil market or world economy.

Nobody was disputing your claims. It's quite obvious that if Greene's plot simply boils down to getting his hands on an oil reserve, it's simply a profitable enterprise, not a world-changing development.

As a result, we must assume: (a) the plot summary is stating things erroneously (which may entirely be the case), or (b) the plot summary is stating things correctly, and that we are either misunderstanding the hints we've been given or there are plot elements we are entirely unaware of at this point in time.

[MarcAngeDraco]

However, the entire oil plot just doesn't play out all that well, especially in a landlocked country like Bolivia with no infrastructure to get the oil out of the country.

Wouldn't that go for any natural resource?

Indeed, it is true for any resource. But with a rather different impact for oil at roughly $100 for a barrel (nearly 300 lbs) versus say platinum at $1600 per ounce.

But this just makes my exact point. Here's an annoucement of large new oil resources being found with no appreciable effect on the oil market or world economy.

Nobody was disputing your claims. It's quite obvious that if Greene's plot simply boils down to getting his hands on an oil reserve, it's simply a profitable enterprise, not a world-changing development.

As a result, we must assume: (a) the plot summary is stating things erroneously (which may entirely be the case), or ( the plot summary is stating things correctly, and that we are either misunderstanding the hints we've been given or there are plot elements we are entirely unaware of at this point in time.

Agreed. I have no doubt that the plot summary probably exaggerates the "total control" aspect and that we probably don't know as much as we might think we do. So probably both a and b...

[Double-0 Seven]

This topic is a river ! It's probably already discuss here, but in TMWTGG, 007 search for an "Solex Agitator", it rings a bell ?
Bond must find a device that will harness the sun's radiation and give awesome power to whomever possess it...

Edited by Double-0 Seven, 31 January 2008 - 11:20 AM.

[Skudor]

It certainly sounds like the hint of 'total control' and the resource 'oil' don't really fit. Perhaps oil is the pretext - Green's organisation pretends it wants a piece of land for oil development, but is in fact after something completely different...

[RivenWinner]

I don't know...seeing as that the "natrual resource" was never mentioned in the press release or conference leads be to think that it is not oil. I mean come on, if it is going to be oil, why keep it a secret? Nothing special, unique or surprising about it at all.

[HildebrandRarity]

Perhaps Greene is publicly known as a man who "made" his money in oil and natural gas...is a philanthropist who is known to channel legitimate funds into "clean" fuel technologies via his enviro-friendly Green(e) Planet corporation...has Fields killed (possibly drowned in oil) to send Bond a (loud and clear) message...but, along with other high-ranking members of the Organisation, is secretly out to control the Uranium market given the substance's importance in generating nuclear power for civilan usage and it's obvious importance for the development of atomic bombs.

[Harmsway]

Why does everyone keep bringing up the "Fields drowned in oil" bit, given that we have no real reason to believe that's the case?

But at any rate, it's entirely possible the oil thing is a front for something else. We just don't know at this point.

[HildebrandRarity]

Why does everyone keep bringing up the "Fields drowned in oil" bit, given that we have no real reason to believe that's the case?

Indeed. Previous post (#105) modified to reflect above.

[stamper]

I'm disappointed by all these glimpses of the plot. It looks like we will get a cross between LTK and WINE. No thanks. Dying in oil or petrol is no different than caviar factory. I think they are heading towards the crash. This is definetely not flemingian. Brings on the Garden of Death, of forget the franchise forever. We Want the Fleming touch, not rethreads of bad 80's & 90's Bond movies.
CR made the grade because at the core was pure Fleming material. If they went the LTK/WINE way, it's finished. Bond will bomb.

Controling a substance that once mixed in the main water course or in bottles sold in stores, pushes people to suicide... now, we're talking ! The ultimate fear is not oil barons or petrol or gazoline or whatever, it's being poisoned thru food or drinks bought with total trust in the control of the product... something that Fleming would have tackled on, when you see how much products were in his novels.

I must add the guy they cast as the general looks like a cartoon, this is really bad...

[HildebrandRarity]

...something that Fleming would have tackled on, when you see how much products were in his novels.

Like guano?

Yes. Fleming is the be all and end all...bird and all!

[Harmsway]

This is definetely not flemingian.

I don't see how that's the case. The whole idea of a villain staging a coup to get ahold of a very lucrative property strikes me as being Flemingesque.

If they went the LTK/WINE way, it's finished. Bond will bomb.

Well, TWINE was a financial success, so that doesn't necessarily wash. Anyway, though I detest TWINE, I think at its core there was a good story that would have lent itself to a very good Bond film.

Controling a substance that once mixed in the main water course or in bottles sold in stores, pushes people to suicide... now, we're talking !

What would the point of that be? The only reason Blofeld was having people kill themselves was because he'd gone nuts.

I must add the guy they cast as the general looks like a cartoon, this is really bad...

[Agent 76]

I think that, the piece of land Mr Dominic Greene wants , is full of bananas.

[stamper]

Heroin flavored banana's could make the grade...

[Agent Spriggan Ominae]

I think oil really does make the most sense. I mean just look at what's going on in the real world.

http://news.aol.com/...210173309990001

[VisualStatic]

Personally, I hope the resource is never mentioned. I hope the story is enough about Bond and his search for some solace, that we never really care what it is. This is suppose to be about Bond's search, Bond's development, Bond's becoming the man we've all come to know in 20+ movies. For the story to do that, somethings will/should be secondary and unneeded, simply knowing that Greene and his company are up to something is enough for me.

My 2 cents.

[HildebrandRarity]

I think oil really does make the most sense. I mean just look at what's going on in the real world.

http://news.aol.com/...210173309990001

The price of wheat and corn are exhibiting the same price pattern as crude oil. And people need to eat first, travel later.

Personally, I hope the resource is never mentioned. I hope the story is enough about Bond and his search for some solace, that we never really care what it is.

I echoed the above as a possibility earlier. We shall see in time. Certainly opens up the possiblilty of the natural resource being revealed in Bond 23.

[Agent Spriggan Ominae]

I think oil really does make the most sense. I mean just look at what's going on in the real world.

http://news.aol.com/...210173309990001

The price of wheat and corn are exhibiting the same price pattern as crude oil. And people need to eat first, travel later.

True, we need to eat but we take for granted that such things would not be as easily avilable if not for the petorleum that drives the machinery involved in the harvesting, transportation, and preparation of the foods we eat. It really is all about the oil.

Edit: Infact what you have said exhibits just that. If oil prices go up, everything goes up. The price of oil does affect the price we pay for what we eat.

Edited by Agent Spriggan Ominae, 13 February 2008 - 01:30 AM.

[HildebrandRarity]

Generally true in previous economic cycles.

This time the prices are rallying because 1) in the case of oil, a thirsty Chinese economy has ramped up the demand for energy and 2) in the case of grains markets, rising global wealth and (hence) consumption of food (mainly from India and China) has outpaced supply.

Further, all traded commodities are priced in US Dollars. What's been happening over the past few years is that the trade-weighted Dollar Index (i.e. the measure of the US$ vs a weighted basket of global currencies) has been declining to new lows. This weakening of the US$ automatically means the price of the above commodities is rising, ceteris paribus (all things being equal). In simplistic terms, there is an inverse relationship between the value of the US$ and the price of world commodities priced in US dollars.

We're having both effects currently, namely rising world demand for energy, metals and grains AND a weakening of the base currency in which these commodities are priced.

[HildebrandRarity]

sorry

[Mr. Blofeld]

Perhaps Greene is publicly known as a man who "made" his money in oil and natural gas...is a philanthropist who is known to channel legitimate funds into "clean" fuel technologies via his enviro-friendly Green(e) Planet corporation...has Fields killed (possibly drowned in oil) to send Bond a (loud and clear) message...but, along with other high-ranking members of the Organisation, is secretly out to control the Uranium market given the substance's importance in generating nuclear power for civilan usage and it's obvious importance for the development of atomic bombs.

I smell Goldfinger...

[HildebrandRarity]

Yes. It's either FRWL or Goldfinger in terms of 'the formula'.