77 replies to this topic

[Cruiserweight]

My spouse never accepted Dalton. She said he had "pig fingers." That sounds silly, but for some women (I'm told), hands are a big thing.

What's pig fingers?

Shorter, stubbier fingers (at least in my wife's opinion).

Interesting,i just looked up pictures of Dalton and his fingers do look a bit short but i don't see that as a good reason not to like someone.
"Oh,your the perfect guy/women.You have brains,a good personality,and your handsome/beautiful but i'm going to have to dump you because your fingers are too short."

[Mike00spy]

Of course he wasn't fired. You can't fire someone who's not under contract.

But, if the studio wants a new leading man, and they won't put up the finance without one, then something's going to have to give. And, in this case, it was Dalton.

Life's not fair, but there it is.

I wonder how strongly Cubby and co. negotiated their end of the deal?

ie. I wonder if they tried to throw in (or throw 'out', as it were) Glen and the writers to keep Dalton? It's my age old rant: Dalton would have been much better publicly accepted with a different/better/more appropriate visionary behind the camera.

Could it have been an unfortunate case (as MGM saw it) that regardless of the material or who was behind the camera, there was something about Dalton the public (at large) were never going to accept? Dalton maintained, even when stuck with the mediocre John Glen and the standard of writing, that he was aiming for a completely serious take on Bond. GE may, in parts, seem like a Dalton film but I don't believe Brosnan went over with the public because of his 'serious' moments, but rather the lighthearted Roger Moore mark 2 persona he was very successful in portraying. Look at how people perceived the character of Bond to be during Dalton's(and Brosnan's) time in the role. Gadgets, quips, girls etc or even look at the action genre as a whole during Dalton's period to Brosnan's first three. Character driven stories with flawed protagonists were sparse, unlike now, simply because audiences wanted pure, mindless escapism from the genre. Even with the appropriate vision, taking these factors into account, I feel that the studio thought that (regardless of the finshed product) a 'traditional' movie Bond was needed to relaunch the franchise in the mid 90s.

what he said.

[ACE]

Dalton was the best Bond.

[Stephen Spotswood]

My spouse never accepted Dalton. She said he had "pig fingers." That sounds silly, but for some women (I'm told), hands are a big thing.

What's pig fingers?

Shorter, stubbier fingers (at least in my wife's opinion).

Isn't that more of a feature of wolf paws?

[Simon]

I mentioned this in a previous thread on this subject but as people come and go, perhaps it is worth mentioning again.

I met and spoke with Garth Pearce, the author of the Making of GonldenEye, at length during the release for GE. He lives across the road from where I used to work and he kindly offered to come into work to sign some books I was offering as prizes for a Cable TV promotion. You may remember he also wrote the Making of book for TND.

He told me he was contacted by Tim prior to the announcement to say that he'd been fired but as a courtesy, he was permitted to say to the media he was walking.

Garth Pearce holds (held?) the near monopoly for entertainment related books and articles for the media here in the UK and as such has no investment to upset any apple carts.

Tim was fired; (the question of whether he was In or Out of contract being a moot point) it was evident it was going to happen, there is no shame in that. He was well treated by the Eon team.

[Royal Dalton]

Garth Pearce knows lots of dirty secrets.

[Mr. Somerset]

I mentioned this in a previous thread on this subject but as people come and go, perhaps it is worth mentioning again.

I met and spoke with Garth Pearce, the author of the Making of GonldenEye, at length during the release for GE. He lives across the road from where I used to work and he kindly offered to come into work to sign some books I was offering as prizes for a Cable TV promotion. You may remember he also wrote the Making of book for TND.

He told me he was contacted by Tim prior to the announcement to say that he'd been fired but as a courtesy, he was permitted to say to the media he was walking.

Garth Pearce holds (held?) the near monopoly for entertainment related books and articles for the media here in the UK and as such has no investment to upset any apple carts.

Tim was fired; (the question of whether he was In or Out of contract being a moot point) it was evident it was going to happen, there is no shame in that. He was well treated by the Eon team.

Wow, That's quite interesting. Too bad Tim didn't get to film his third in 1991. I guess by 1994 it was too late.

[Peckinpah1976]

I mentioned this in a previous thread on this subject but as people come and go, perhaps it is worth mentioning again.

I met and spoke with Garth Pearce, the author of the Making of GonldenEye, at length during the release for GE. He lives across the road from where I used to work and he kindly offered to come into work to sign some books I was offering as prizes for a Cable TV promotion. You may remember he also wrote the Making of book for TND.

He told me he was contacted by Tim prior to the announcement to say that he'd been fired but as a courtesy, he was permitted to say to the media he was walking.

Garth Pearce holds (held?) the near monopoly for entertainment related books and articles for the media here in the UK and as such has no investment to upset any apple carts.

Tim was fired; (the question of whether he was In or Out of contract being a moot point) it was evident it was going to happen, there is no shame in that. He was well treated by the Eon team.

That's what I've always suspected; Goldeneye really had to hit it's mark with the general public - there was no way they were ever going to make the film with Dalton, especially after the percieved failure of LTK and the long delay between films. (For what it's worth I love Dalton's take on the character and loathe Goldeneye but I'm not an average moviegoer. )

[Royal Dalton]

there was no way they were ever going to make the film with Dalton

Eon was going to make it with him. MGM wasn't.

[RazorBlade]

I think TD's career as Bond could have been redeemed and he could have had several hits. That MGM didn't want him is too bad but understandable from their POV.

I wonder though, if EON couldn't have financed the films by themselves and used whatever actor they liked? George Lucas used this with STAR WARS and kept Fox from interferring too much.

[Cruiserweight]

That's a shame that the general public(Not hardcore bond fans) and MGM felt that way about Dalton.Roger may be my favorite actor to have played bond but i still feel Dalton was the best actor to have played bond,better then the the three actors that came before him and better then the two that have come after him.Which is why he remains my second favorite bond after Roger.I would have really loved to see more of Daltons bond.Maybe two more films would have done it.For some reason i see four films just being right for Dalton.

[Napoleon Solo]

I think TD's career as Bond could have been redeemed and he could have had several hits. That MGM didn't want him is too bad but understandable from their POV.

I wonder though, if EON couldn't have financed the films by themselves and used whatever actor they liked? George Lucas used this with STAR WARS and kept Fox from interferring too much.

They COULD have, but it would have been a big roll of the dice. Remember, Albert R. Broccoli and his then-partner Irving Allen had self-financed a movie (The Trials of Oscar Wilde) and it bombed. (See the Cubby Broccoli biography on the Bond DVDs.) I doubt Eon would want to gamble that much. Also, doesn't MGM now own half (inheriting the half that United Artists purchased from Harry Saltzman in the mid-1970s)?

[DaveBond21]

The quote that I had always heard was that by the time the legal disputes had been sorted out, and 1994 had come around, Dalton felt that he was getting too old and that the general public had forgotten he even played Bond (something that still happens today among non-Bond fans sadly). As well as that, the tone of Goldeneye had elements of all the past Bonds, not just Dalton, and Brosnan got the right mix of all of them in one performance.

I strongly believe that Dalton was perfect for 1987-1989 but that Brosnan was perfect for 1995-2002 and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Cruiserweight]

But we can only imagine about what would have been in 1991 & 1993...

[RazorBlade]

But we can only imagine about what would have been in 1991 & 1993...

I should think it's still imagine what it would have been like in '91 and '93.

[jaguar007]

I think TD's career as Bond could have been redeemed and he could have had several hits. That MGM didn't want him is too bad but understandable from their POV.

I wonder though, if EON couldn't have financed the films by themselves and used whatever actor they liked? George Lucas used this with STAR WARS and kept Fox from interferring too much.

They COULD have, but it would have been a big roll of the dice. Remember, Albert R. Broccoli and his then-partner Irving Allen had self-financed a movie (The Trials of Oscar Wilde) and it bombed. (See the Cubby Broccoli biography on the Bond DVDs.) I doubt Eon would want to gamble that much. Also, doesn't MGM now own half (inheriting the half that United Artists purchased from Harry Saltzman in the mid-1970s)?

I believe Broccoli bought back Saltzman's share from UA in the late 80s.

[Royal Dalton]

Eon bought Saltzman's share of the company back. But, MGM kept their half of the Bond film rights.

[ACE]

Eon bought Saltzman's share of the company back. But, MGM kept their half of the Bond film rights.

What does this mean RD?

[Royal Dalton]

It means the Broccolis now own all of Eon Productions, and the film rights to James Bond are jointly owned between them and MGM.

[ACE]

It means the Broccolis now own all of Eon Productions, and the film rights to James Bond are jointly owned between them and MGM.

Thanks

[Napoleon Solo]

Eon bought Saltzman's share of the company back. But, MGM kept their half of the Bond film rights.

Up through The Man With the Golden Gun, the copyright notice says "© XXXX (year) Danjaq SA." Danjaq being the Broccoli-Saltzman entity that owned the film rights and which was incorporated in Switzerland. (Eon originally was the Broccoli-Saltzman company that produced the movies.)

Starting with The Spy Who Loved Me, the copyright notice says, "© XXXX (year) Danjaq SA and United Artists Corp." ...it even says this in the MGM/UA and MGM era. MGM, or its predecessor United Artists, never had the film rights until Saltzman got into financial trouble and needed a bailout in the 1970s.

[stamper]

I still think to this day, that Goldeneye would have worked way better with an actor who had already played Bond, then we would have really seen the contrast and the changes like with M for example. Broz never had to answers to a male M.

[triviachamp]

[quote name='Napoleon Solo' post='804284' date='6 December 2007 - 23:35']Starting with The Spy Who Loved Me, the copyright notice says, "

[Napoleon Solo]

I believe you are incorrect as UA was not added to the copyright notices until The Living Daylights. Check the imdb and the credits themselves. This surprised me when I noticed as thought it started with Spy...

It appears this was when Cubby brought Danjaq back but UA kept Saltzman's rights. I guess this is why they were added. I wonder if Turner's brief ownership of MGM/UA had something to do with it...

I stand corrected then on when the double copyright began. It is (mildly) interesting, though, that the copyright continues to say Danjaq and United Artists while the Bond movies were marketed under the MGM name (and in the case of CR, Columbia Pictures and MGM) since TWINE.

[Peckinpah1976]

there was no way they were ever going to make the film with Dalton

Eon was going to make it with him. MGM wasn't.

But we don't really know that for sure, do we? I know what was said at the time but I suspect Dalton was given a golden handshake and was allowed to appear to bow-out graciously. The truth is that if Goldeneye had flopped it would have been the end for the series and the loss of Eon's livelihood - they weren't about to risk that by using a man who'd failed in the court of public opinion. In 1995 they had to have fresh start, which meant no Dalton.

[Mr. Blofeld]

there was no way they were ever going to make the film with Dalton

Eon was going to make it with him. MGM wasn't.

But we don't really know that for sure, do we? I know what was said at the time but I suspect Dalton was given a golden handshake and was allowed to appear to bow-out graciously. The truth is that if Goldeneye had flopped it would have been the end for the series and the loss of Eon's livelihood - they weren't about to risk that by using a man who'd failed in the court of public opinion. In 1995 they had to have fresh start, which meant no Dalton.

Dalton only "failed in the court of public opinion" because EON made it look that way.

There is one truth I know, and one truth only: GoldenEye should have been Dalton's film.

[Royal Dalton]

there was no way they were ever going to make the film with Dalton

Eon was going to make it with him. MGM wasn't.

But we don't really know that for sure, do we? I know what was said at the time but I suspect Dalton was given a golden handshake and was allowed to appear to bow-out graciously. The truth is that if Goldeneye had flopped it would have been the end for the series and the loss of Eon's livelihood - they weren't about to risk that by using a man who'd failed in the court of public opinion. In 1995 they had to have fresh start, which meant no Dalton.

Eon are on the record as being in talks with Dalton to appear in GoldenEye in 1993.

"We're in discussion with him, and we're not in discussion with anyone else. He's the Bond of record." - Danjaq spokesman John Parkinson, July 1993.

Unfortunately, just a month after that statement, John Calley became the new president of United Artists. He wanted a new Bond, so that was it. Goodbye Dalton.

[RazorBlade]

there was no way they were ever going to make the film with Dalton

Eon was going to make it with him. MGM wasn't.

But we don't really know that for sure, do we? I know what was said at the time but I suspect Dalton was given a golden handshake and was allowed to appear to bow-out graciously. The truth is that if Goldeneye had flopped it would have been the end for the series and the loss of Eon's livelihood - they weren't about to risk that by using a man who'd failed in the court of public opinion. In 1995 they had to have fresh start, which meant no Dalton.

Dalton only "failed in the court of public opinion" because EON made it look that way.

There is one truth I know, and one truth only: GoldenEye should have been Dalton's film.

Too true, the bosses made it look that way. You see it now with the WGA strike, the studio bosses go in and insult the writers, then act indigant like it's the writer's fault.

[Mr. Blofeld]

there was no way they were ever going to make the film with Dalton

Eon was going to make it with him. MGM wasn't.

But we don't really know that for sure, do we? I know what was said at the time but I suspect Dalton was given a golden handshake and was allowed to appear to bow-out graciously. The truth is that if Goldeneye had flopped it would have been the end for the series and the loss of Eon's livelihood - they weren't about to risk that by using a man who'd failed in the court of public opinion. In 1995 they had to have fresh start, which meant no Dalton.

Eon are on the record as being in talks with Dalton to appear in GoldenEye in 1993.

"We're in discussion with him, and we're not in discussion with anyone else. He's the Bond of record." - Danjaq spokesman John Parkinson, July 1993.

Unfortunately, just a month after that statement, John Calley became the new president of United Artists. He wanted a new Bond, so that was it. Goodbye Dalton.

Sound like 1971, anyone?

[Badfinger-Boogie]

there was no way they were ever going to make the film with Dalton

Eon was going to make it with him. MGM wasn't.

But we don't really know that for sure, do we? I know what was said at the time but I suspect Dalton was given a golden handshake and was allowed to appear to bow-out graciously. The truth is that if Goldeneye had flopped it would have been the end for the series and the loss of Eon's livelihood - they weren't about to risk that by using a man who'd failed in the court of public opinion. In 1995 they had to have fresh start, which meant no Dalton.

Dalton only "failed in the court of public opinion" because EON made it look that way.

There is one truth I know, and one truth only: GoldenEye should have been Dalton's film.

That's an opinion and a preference. Not a truth.