77 replies to this topic

[RazorBlade]

Ever notice that we have more to say about films we all dislike/hate than the ones we love?

I'm a big Sophie Marceau fan and I too feel that she had a weak script. She deserved a strong script and to work opposite TD.

[baerrtt]

The most OTT Bond film ever. AVTAK was looked down mainly cos of Rog's ageing but the film was at least interesting to watch. Tanya Roberts looks so dam hot in that lingerie.
I saw TWINE at Leicester Square premiere night and most of the audience was laughing at the dialogue between M, Bond and Elektra. Brosnan who excellent in the previous Bond films is terribly over acting in this movie. Is he trying to cry when he talks to Elektra? The screenplay seems rushed and again Peter Lamont's sets are one step away from a direct to dvd movie. Common guys this is a Bond film so bring in the glamour. Look at the casino, the caviar factory and the control room (Elektra Office) looks really cheap.

The script was flat. The acting was bad, Elektra was out of place and finally who gave M a meaty roll????
The worst Bond Movie Ever!!!

M was given a meatier role because Judi Dench had just won an Oscar and as Michael Apted stated 'who hires one of the best british actresses in any medium and gives her nothing to do?' (in any event meatier part or not she was given nothing of substance to work with).

Marceau's performance fails because the script was awful simple as. In both her and Robert Carlyle you had two very good actors playing the villains yet despite the intentions of the material a script that gave them nothing GOOD to work with. IMO there have never been any bad actors that have played Bond Villains but bad scripts leading to bad performances.

[Dekard77]

IMO there have never been any bad actors that have played Bond Villains but bad scripts leading to bad performances.


Well granted they are good actors but in the film M, Renard, Elektra and Dr jones are all wooden. It doesn't help also that Brosnan gives a performance that reminded me of his Remington Steele silliness.
The Elektra King scenes were laughable 'you can never never kill me not after we made love' ?? Actually what made Brosnan think that we would feel the humane side of Bond anyways??? I mean the fact that he just shot Elektra King eventhough he loved her?? for betraying him and his govt he doesn't seem to be bothered by it too much. Connery handles Fiona Velope scene so nicely and ends in a way saying not to ever mess with 007.
Apted also has no clue about the logic behind making an adventure or 007 film. But your right they wanted to give M a meatier role as she just got off winning an Oscar.
I want to write something that happened when I went to see TWINE in UK. At the premier of the movie I asked Dame Judi Dench to give me her autograph and in a state of panic I called her M and everyone seated in the cinema laughed at me. Brosnan left the movie half way through but the rest of the cast was there and i must say all eyes were on the Cigar girl. I remember Colin Salmon, Dr Warmflash and David Arnold were really nice and posed for photographs etc. But the way we were treated by security and how the some of the stars didn't even bother with us hurt my feelings and thought after that it will only be about the performances and not how cool his publicity manager made him look in the press.I was young then now I know a bit better heheeh.

[tdalton]

Marceau's performance fails because the script was awful simple as. In both her and Robert Carlyle you had two very good actors playing the villains yet despite the intentions of the material a script that gave them nothing GOOD to work with. IMO there have never been any bad actors that have played Bond Villains but bad scripts leading to bad performances.

Agreed. I thought that both Marceau and Carlyle did as much as they could with the very weak material that they were given to work with.

[HH007]

Marceau's performance fails because the script was awful simple as. In both her and Robert Carlyle you had two very good actors playing the villains yet despite the intentions of the material a script that gave them nothing GOOD to work with. IMO there have never been any bad actors that have played Bond Villains but bad scripts leading to bad performances.

Agreed. I thought that both Marceau and Carlyle did as much as they could with the very weak material that they were given to work with.

Carlyle especially was given next to nothing to do, it was so disappointing.

[Harmsway]

I thought that both Marceau and Carlyle did as much as they could with the very weak material that they were given to work with.

The material was poor, but I thought they made it worse. In fact, I'd argue that TWINE is a film killed more by the actors themselves than by the script. If everybody hadn't been so insistent on overacting to high heavens, the film might be watchable.

[Loomis]

I'd argue that TWINE is a film killed more by the actors themselves than by the script. If everybody hadn't been so insistent on overacting to high heavens, the film might be watchable.

Couldn't agree more. The performances in TWINE - by pretty much everyone - are absolutely intolerable, as hammy as you can get. You'd have to go back to ROCKY V for a film that's such a collection of wretched performances. Strangely enough, in both cases, the material isn't actually that bad - it's not great, by any stretch, but we're talking acceptable scripts sunk by truly lousy, attention-seeking acting (and apathetic direction).

[6Joker9]

I'll amend that by nominating Marceau and Robert Carlisle as possibly the most disappointing villains. One is never developed in an interesting way and the other is translated badly into a villain.

In terms of expectation versus result, no question about it. Carlisle had an interesting dynamic, and his aura when M briefed Bond about him seemed to show a certain promise, yet ironically Carlisle's character, Renard, is the embodiment of what

Edited by 6Joker9, 25 March 2008 - 01:44 AM.

[Harmsway]

The characters of Bond and Renard were pretty badly written within the script itself in the first place, with both of them having characterizations of 'cold guys' that were given overemotional arcs that just were tedious.

Sure. But Carlyle and Brosnan make it worse than it had to be. It was Brosnan that made the "Stockholm syndrome" scene unwatchable, not the screenplay.

[MajorB]

I thought Marceau gave a nicely nuanced performance of the character as written, and unlike 6Joker9, I found her quite plausible as a villain. The moment when she lets that part of her show through--in the scene with M after Bond seems to have been blown up--is subtle and wonderfully done. And I like her evil-seductress scene while torturing Bond. My problem with Marceau is that her character starts out hostile to Bond and never actually seems to warm to him, or to show any warmth period. Which keeps her from conveying any charm or letting us understand why Bond is drawn to her aside from her looks and (apparently) her victimhood. (That last part, at least, is vintage Fleming--more than once the book Bond was drawn to woman who was a "bird with a wing down.") I think the focus of the filmmakers, including Marceau, was to make King enigmatic, which she was. But if she'd been allowed to be appealing as well, it would have made her character more interesting and the relationship between her and Bond more plausible (screen-touching notwithstanding).

But I agree that the script wasn't always a help. Bond's "filthy business" speech to Renard and Elektra's "You won't kill me" taunting in the tower are two of the most ham-handed dialogue moments in any big-budget film I can think of. (Almost as bad as the "Who am I?" moment in Wall Street. But I digress.)

[baerrtt]

The characters of Bond and Renard were pretty badly written within the script itself in the first place, with both of them having characterizations of 'cold guys' that were given overemotional arcs that just were tedious.

Sure. But Carlyle and Brosnan make it worse than it had to be. It was Brosnan that made the "Stockholm syndrome" scene unwatchable, not the screenplay.

True I think that there are two types of good actor, the type that can make a mediocre script/material watchable (Denzel Washington, Tom Hanks, Chris Walken etc) and there's the other type (Carlyle, Marceau and Brosnan) that well can't.

I suspect the reason why Brosnan has experienced criticism from some sections of fandom is that, however bad his material was during his tenure, it's clear that he hasn't the natural dramatic talent to elevate material (his comedic talent on the the other hand is spot on) that is lacking. The overall problem with the performances is that they fall/fell under an era where the tone was competely centred on action and 'giving the public what they want'. Hence I suspect that (even with Apted at the helm) there was no proper time/consideration given to working/fine tuning the acting, compared to the time inevitably given to the stunts etc.

As a result every performance feels incomplete and rushed, (the intentions of the material are honourable IMO)and as a result we get a film that feels incoherent.

[Marc-Ange Draco]

I've got to agree with the above comments that TWINE would have been vastly better without Denise "I wish I was smart enough to be a physicist" Richards.
As far as Marceau is concerned, I thought her character worked very well, and would have been even better had Renard been a secondary villan/if her death had ended the movie

[Mr. Blofeld]

Brosnan stunk in all of his films, including GoldenEye; a young Roger Moore, I think, would've done them justice.

[DR76]

The only person I had trouble with was Robert Carlyle. His performance was okay, but I didn't like how the writers portrayed him. They tried to make Renard out as someone special and he came out lame to me. I guess they needed his character as some kind of red herring to mask the real villain - Elektra King. But he still came out as lame to me.

[JimmyBond]

I doubt I should put this much effort into this post, as I agree with every one of your points, but I just wanted to add my own opinion to each

The most OTT Bond film ever. AVTAK was looked down mainly cos of Rog's ageing but the film was at least interesting to watch. Tanya Roberts looks so dam hot in that lingerie.

I dunno, I think AVATK is pretty grounded for a Moore film.

I saw TWINE at Leicester Square premiere night and most of the audience was laughing at the dialogue between M, Bond and Elektra. Brosnan who excellent in the previous Bond films is terribly over acting in this movie. Is he trying to cry when he talks to Elektra?

Give the guy a break, he's "acting"

The screenplay seems rushed and again Peter Lamont's sets are one step away from a direct to dvd movie. Common guys this is a Bond film so bring in the glamour. Look at the casino, the caviar factory and the control room (Elektra Office) looks really cheap.

I like the Casino scenes, so I will disagree there, but I agree with everything else, even the ski scenes feel fake.

The script was flat. The acting was bad, Elektra was out of place and finally who gave M a meaty roll????
The worst Bond Movie Ever!!!

Judi Dench's Oscar gave her a meaty role I'm really wanting to disagree with you on the "worst" moniker you gave it, but I really can't think of a Bond film I'd rather watch less than TWINE, just a dreary dull film.

[Dekard77]

I think Sophie Marceau's Elektra King is the worst Bond girl of them all. Yes, I'm entirely sincere.

Well Said, Agreed !
Also this is one of the cheesiest Bond films made.

The screenplay seems rushed and again Peter Lamont's sets are one step away from a direct to dvd movie. Common guys this is a Bond film so bring in the glamour. Look at the casino, the caviar factory and the control room (Elektra Office) looks really cheap.

I like the Casino scenes, so I will disagree there, but I agree with everything else, even the ski scenes feel fake.

Well if you look properly it at the Casino scenes you will even see the wires hanging the chandeliers ... also the room looks like a comedy sketch for Saturday Night Live.
Your right even the Ski scenes are very badly done, I skip it all the time.

[dee-bee-five]

I was watching TWINE the other day and couldn't help but feel that Sophie Marceau's Elektra King is probably one of the best bond girls/villains the series has ever had. I mean the role wasn't easy. She had to be innocent enough for us to initially think that she wasn't the villian, but then turn completely twisted and disturbed for the audience to see how far gone she was. This, coupled with magnetic sex appeal and femininity (you really want to save her but you know its hopeless) came together amazingly well on-screen. There have been beautiful bond girls but not since Fiona Volpe has a bond girl had so much sex appeal mainly through her acting. No bikinis necessary. I feel she's very underrated.

The ending in TWINE suffers because Bond kills Elektra first. If the writers had Bond dispose of Renard first then have THAT scene with Elektra, then I think we would have seen a much better movie. I always judge a film by how it ends, especially a Bond film, and since we were told that TWINE was supposed to be an emotional movie the ending leaves everything a little flat. For me the movie ended after Bond shot Elektra. Because, all in all, this movie was about her and the lyrics to the song sung by Garbage gave an insight into her psyche (hence why i love the song).

Overall next to Goldeneye, TWINE is the best Brosnan film despite the action being very generic. All this is down to King. I found her more complex and interesting than Carver or Graves. If they had toned down the action, got rid of Christmas Jones (She would have been perfect for DAD, considering her character), and upped the thriller and suspense, we could have had a classic Bond movie (then again that could be said for a lot of Bond movies) with a compelling villianess.

I agree with much of what you say. I believe TWINE is, currently, the most underrated Bond film, period. It seems to share the curse of the "9". OHMSS 1969, underrated for nearly two decades until fans and then critics began to see it for the true classic it is. Moonraker 1979,despised by fans (including myself) for years, but now beginning to be recognised by many (again, including myself)as grand fun on a massive budget. LTK, 1989, a puzzlement to many, but now starting to emerge as, perhaps, a brave attempt by the producers to break away from the formula. And then TWINE 1999, hated by many on CBn, with relatively few voices raised in support.

But I happen to think TWINE is well-written and performed. There are weaknesses, to be sure, and it's a shame some of the action set-pieces feel bolted on. But I find the film is never less than interesting and the dramatic scenes, for me, are compelling. But then I work in TV, so what would I know ?

Couldn't agree more. The performances in TWINE - by pretty much everyone - are absolutely intolerable, as hammy as you can get.

I couldn't disagree more - unless I've seen a different version of TWINE from everyone else. I think the performances collectively - and with one notable exception - are the best of the Brosnan era. And that is something I put down to Michael Apted, whom I've always thought a good director.

[Golden Claw]

Sophie Marceau's Elektra King is my favourite Bond villain of all time. And also the best femme fatale of all. A fantastic character in Brozza's best Bond movie. Can't understand why she's so underrated. She's much better than Brozza and she makes denise Richards look ugly.

Elektra King rules!