77 replies to this topic

[tambourineman]

She's underrated because of a bad script, and her death is ultimately meaningless because Bond gets over it in a second and hooks up with Christmas Jones. Had it been done properly, with no Christmas, Bond falling for Elektra then being forced to execute her and the impact it has on him could have been the defining moment of Brosnan's tenure, a scene that could be alongside Tracy and Vesper's deaths. But no, he shoots her, is over it in a second and making sex jokes in bed with Christmas.

[Harmsway]

I think Sophie Marceau's Elektra King is the worst Bond girl of them all. Yes, I'm entirely sincere.

Why do you say that Harmsway?

Marceau overacts like mad throughout the entire movie. There's not a single line that she doesn't overplay. While physically beautiful, nothing about the character she creates is remotely attractive. She's just plain irritating. It doesn't help that she's working off of awful material, but she does nothing to elevate it.

Worse than Jinx, C. Jones, M. Goodnight?

Yes.

I agree with what some ppl on here are saying about Brosnan's acting in this movie...imagine if Craig got to act opposite her?

I'd still hate her, probably.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

She's underrated because of a bad script, and her death is ultimately meaningless because Bond gets over it in a second and hooks up with Christmas Jones. Had it been done properly, with no Christmas, Bond falling for Elektra then being forced to execute her and the impact it has on him could have been the defining moment of Brosnan's tenure, a scene that could be alongside Tracy and Vesper's deaths. But no, he shoots her, is over it in a second and making sex jokes in bed with Christmas.

Exactly. That's why TWINE(while certainly watchable enough) is one of the weakest films in the series for me. It's like they wanted to make a Bond film that was half-OHMSS and half-AVTAK. Not the most compatible combination by a long shot. Symptomatic of the entire Brosnan era and the effort to make him and his Bond films a combination of Connery/Lazenby/Moore/Dalton.

[Turn]

She's underrated because of a bad script, and her death is ultimately meaningless because Bond gets over it in a second and hooks up with Christmas Jones. Had it been done properly, with no Christmas, Bond falling for Elektra then being forced to execute her and the impact it has on him could have been the defining moment of Brosnan's tenure, a scene that could be alongside Tracy and Vesper's deaths. But no, he shoots her, is over it in a second and making sex jokes in bed with Christmas.

Sorry, but that's how I like my Bond. CR and OHMSS were nice one-offs, but even in OHMSS he's cavorting with all the chicks at Piz Gloria prior to his rescue by Tracy. He knows better than to be that involved with a woman and moves on.

Bond in TWINE comes off more like a sap with a junior high infatuation rather than the world's greatest spy who should know better. Come to think of it, M comes off rather badly in it all as well. Is Elektra that clever or is everybody at MI6 just having a very bad week in TWINE?

[tambourineman]

Im not saying that Bond should fall in love every other movie (I dont want to see that again for a good long while) but in TWINE he falls for Elektra more then any other Bond girl since Tracy in OHMSS. He starts falling for her before he has even seen her just by looking at a monitor with her picture on it. She wasnt just another Bond girl, he become very involved and protective of her, and seemed quite upset when he thought she betrayed him. All that set up, and then that piss weak payoff.

Im just saying that they should do it one way or the other - Bond should either be the womaniser we all know and love, or if they have him actually fall for one of these girls make it worthwhile. Dont make a movie that spends half the time setting up a romance and then get cold feet at the end and blow it off as if it was totally meaningless.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Im just saying that they should do it one way or the other - Bond should either be the womaniser we all know and love, or if they have him actually fall for one of these girls make it worthwhile. Dont make a movie that spends half the time setting up a romance and then get cold feet at the end and blow it off as if it was totally meaningless.

Exactly; whoever put Christmas Jones in that movie should have been shot.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Bond in TWINE comes off more like a sap with a junior high infatuation rather than the world's greatest spy who should know better.

Exactly, Turn. I have trouble believing TWINE's Bond is the same Bond who survived encounters with the likes of Helga Brandt and Fiona Volpe. He never got that attached to Tracy or Vesper so quickly. Also, compare how Bond approaches Kara in The Living Daylights to how Bond approaches Elektra in TWINE. In the 1987 film, Bond is cautious at first since he does not know for sure if she's a KGB agent or a dupe being used by Koskov. He keeps her at a distance before revealing the truth to her about his being a British agent and Koskov's treachery. Meanwhile, TWINE's Bond acts like he's had no experience with women at all.

Come to think of it, M comes off rather badly in it all as well. Is Elektra that clever or is everybody at MI6 just having a very bad week in TWINE?

Indeed. M in TWINE comes across as the dumbest female employee of MI6 since Mary Goodnight.

Im not saying that Bond should fall in love every other movie (I dont want to see that again for a good long while) but in TWINE he falls for Elektra more then any other Bond girl since Tracy in OHMSS. He starts falling for her before he has even seen her just by looking at a monitor with her picture on it. She wasnt just another Bond girl, he become very involved and protective of her, and seemed quite upset when he thought she betrayed him. All that set up, and then that piss weak payoff.

Im just saying that they should do it one way or the other - Bond should either be the womaniser we all know and love, or if they have him actually fall for one of these girls make it worthwhile. Dont make a movie that spends half the time setting up a romance and then get cold feet at the end and blow it off as if it was totally meaningless.

Agreed, tambourineman. Be either OHMSS or MR but don't try to be both at the same time.

Im just saying that they should do it one way or the other - Bond should either be the womaniser we all know and love, or if they have him actually fall for one of these girls make it worthwhile. Dont make a movie that spends half the time setting up a romance and then get cold feet at the end and blow it off as if it was totally meaningless.

Exactly; whoever put Christmas Jones in that movie should have been shot.

I wouldn't go that far, Mr. Blofeld. Or would you rather he go swimming in your piranha pool . Just make sure he never writes for another Bond script.

[Colonel Moon]

Every time when we have an acctress from France we have a great Bond girl

[Harmsway]

Bond in TWINE comes off more like a sap with a junior high infatuation rather than the world's greatest spy who should know better.

Exactly, Turn. I have trouble believing TWINE's Bond is the same Bond who survived encounters with the likes of Helga Brandt and Fiona Volpe. He never got that attached to Tracy or Vesper so quickly. Also, compare how Bond approaches Kara in The Living Daylights to how Bond approaches Elektra in TWINE. In the 1987 film, Bond is cautious at first since he does not know for sure if she's a KGB agent or a dupe being used by Koskov. He keeps her at a distance before revealing the truth to her about his being a British agent and Koskov's treachery. Meanwhile, TWINE's Bond acts like he's had no experience with women at all.

Agreed.

Furthermore, Bond's reaction *after* finding out Elektra's a traitor is also entirely inappropriate. She kidnaps M, plans to kill millions, and then tortures Bond... and then he allows himself to actually mourn her death? If there was ever a moment where Bond should have shot and wouldn't have allowed himself any remorse (even if he felt some), it should have been that moment. There should have been nothing but disgust.

And before people bring up the Vesper comparison... Bond was far more attached to Vesper (dying with Vesper is essentially the dram of a happier life), Bond had far less time to think about her betrayal than he did with Elektra (heck, Bond starts suspecting Elektra as soon as the silo scene... by the time we get to the finale, he should be really hardened in his emotional response to her), and Vesper wasn't a super crazy madwoman who committed the sins that Elektra did.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Bond's reaction *after* finding out Elektra's a traitor is entirely inappropriate. She kidnaps M, plans to kill millions, and then tortures Bond... and then he allows himself to actually mourn her death? If there was ever a moment where Bond should have shot and wouldn't have allowed himself any remorse (even if he felt some), it should have been that moment. There should have been nothing but disgust.

Agreed; Purvis & Wade should have rethought their approach before turning the script in...

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Bond in TWINE comes off more like a sap with a junior high infatuation rather than the world's greatest spy who should know better.

Exactly, Turn. I have trouble believing TWINE's Bond is the same Bond who survived encounters with the likes of Helga Brandt and Fiona Volpe. He never got that attached to Tracy or Vesper so quickly. Also, compare how Bond approaches Kara in The Living Daylights to how Bond approaches Elektra in TWINE. In the 1987 film, Bond is cautious at first since he does not know for sure if she's a KGB agent or a dupe being used by Koskov. He keeps her at a distance before revealing the truth to her about his being a British agent and Koskov's treachery. Meanwhile, TWINE's Bond acts like he's had no experience with women at all.

Agreed.

Furthermore, Bond's reaction *after* finding out Elektra's a traitor is also entirely inappropriate. She kidnaps M, plans to kill millions, and then tortures Bond... and then he allows himself to actually mourn her death? If there was ever a moment where Bond should have shot and wouldn't have allowed himself any remorse (even if he felt some), it should have been that moment. There should have been nothing but disgust.

Exactly, Harmsway. Imagine if Brosnan's Bond in TWINE had been written the way Connery's Bond was written back in the 1960s. Connery's Bond would never have put up with Elektra's actions and behavior. He also would never had allowed himself to get that emotionally attached to someone he barely knew.

And before people bring up the Vesper comparison... Bond was far more attached to Vesper (dying with Vesper is essentially the dram of a happier life), Bond had far less time to think about her betrayal than he did with Elektra (heck, Bond starts suspecting Elektra as soon as the silo scene... by the time we get to the finale, he should be really hardened in his emotional response to her), and Vesper wasn't a super crazy madwoman who committed the sins that Elektra did.

That's one of the reasons why CR is an infinitely superior Bond film to TWINE.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Exactly, Harmsway. Imagine if Brosnan's Bond in TWINE had been written the way Connery's Bond was written back in the 1960s. Connery's Bond would never have put up with Elektra's actions and behavior. He also would never had allowed himself to get that emotionally attached to someone he barely knew.

Same with Lazenby in OHMSS, I reckon.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Exactly, Harmsway. Imagine if Brosnan's Bond in TWINE had been written the way Connery's Bond was written back in the 1960s. Connery's Bond would never have put up with Elektra's actions and behavior. He also would never had allowed himself to get that emotionally attached to someone he barely knew.

Same with Lazenby in OHMSS, I reckon.

Of course. Lazenby's Bond doesn't fall for Tracy until after she helps him escape from Irma Bunt and thugs as this excellent article by Ed Harris points out-

http://commanderbond.net/article/3148

That link didn't work. You can reach it by this one-

http://debrief.comma...showtopic=29785

By contrast, Brosnan's Bond falls for Elektra after seeing her cry on a computer before he's ever met her. Not Brosnan's fault of course, but I do blame his writers.

Edited by PrinceKamalKhan, 29 December 2007 - 08:13 PM.

[Harmsway]

Bond's reaction *after* finding out Elektra's a traitor is entirely inappropriate. She kidnaps M, plans to kill millions, and then tortures Bond... and then he allows himself to actually mourn her death? If there was ever a moment where Bond should have shot and wouldn't have allowed himself any remorse (even if he felt some), it should have been that moment. There should have been nothing but disgust.

Agreed; Purvis & Wade should have rethought their approach before turning the script in...

I'm trying to remember, but I think P&W's draft had that scene play out slightly differently (the Elektra/Bond relationship was different in a number of ways, and played better). You should probably pin the blame on Dana Stevens and Bruce Feirstein.

Exactly, Harmsway. Imagine if Brosnan's Bond in TWINE had been written the way Connery's Bond was written back in the 1960s. Connery's Bond would never have put up with Elektra's actions and behavior. He also would never had allowed himself to get that emotionally attached to someone he barely knew.

Same with Lazenby in OHMSS, I reckon.

Of course. Lazenby's Bond doesn't fall for Tracy until after she helps him escape from Irma Bunt and thugs as this excellent article by Ed Harris points out-

http://commanderbond.net/article/3148

That link didn't work. You can reach it by this one-

http://debrief.comma...showtopic=29785

By contrast, Brosnan's Bond falls for Elektra after seeing her cry on a computer before he's ever met her. Not Brosnan's fault of course, but I do blame his writers.

Really, the softy Bond doesn't really match up with Bond as we know him and love him. Bond shouldn't be a man who wears his heart on his sleeve. It undermines the appeal of the character.

And yes, Brosnan is not responsible for the writing. But he didn't make a lot of these moments play as well as they could. In a lot of cases, he took what was on the page and made it worse with some overwrought performing.

[Solitare]

Just watched the movie and it wasn't a tragedy. It seemed to me well done except in those few areas that have been already discussed.

Christmas Jones was really a pointless character. Elektra dominated the screen and gave the viewers a chance to get to know her character while with Christmas we get a few shots with her.

Bond probably could have handled most of it without her.

Elektra I thought was wonderfully done.
The song truly suited her.
The song itself I've fallen for. I can't stop listening to.

It's a pity the end was ruined.

[Agent Ostlund]

Welcome to the CBn fourms, Solitare

Edited by Agent Ostlund, 13 January 2008 - 10:06 PM.

[HH007]

Welcome Solitare. By the way, I agree with you.



Yikes! That's post 666!!!

Edited by HH007, 13 January 2008 - 10:11 PM.

[Agent Ostlund]

thats insane...because as soon as I read that, my brothers started playing "number of the beast" on guitar hero...

Edited by Agent Ostlund, 13 January 2008 - 10:19 PM.

[Solitare]

Thank you! =)
I look forward to posting on these forums.

[AngryPolarBear]

Maybe Sophie Marceau fools me with her steaming hot looks, but I must honestly say that I've always loved the character of Elektra King. She is stunningly beautiful, but also dark and evil. That is truly a good mix.

TWINE has it shares of flaws, but Elektra King is one of the reasons I actually like it.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Maybe Sophie Marceau fools me with her steaming hot looks, but I must honestly say that I've always loved the character of Elektra King. She is stunningly beautiful, but also dark and evil. That is truly a good mix.

TWINE has it shares of flaws, but Elektra King is one of the reasons I actually like it.

Really? I always thought she acted like a petulant little girl, especially in the Maiden's Tower sequence.

[AngryPolarBear]

I don't share that opinion. Every time I'm thinking of TWINE, she's the first thing that comes to mind. So Elektra King must have something right that makes me remind her.

I know many people don't like TWINE because it tries hard to be in the same style as OHMSS without succeeding, but I do think they at least should get some praise for trying. I can't say the same thing for TND.

[Harmsway]

I don't share that opinion. Every time I'm thinking of TWINE, she's the first thing that comes to mind. So Elektra King must have something right that makes me remind her.

Every time I'm thinking of DIE ANOTHER DAY, Jinx is the first thing that comes to mind, but there's nothing good about her.

[tdalton]

I think that Sophie Marceau was quite good as Elektra King, especially given that she wasn't given anything to work with in the script. Had the script stayed closer to an OHMSS-style Bond film instead of trying to find some middle ground between the more dramatically driven Bond film and the more action driven Bond film, then there could have been something interesting done with both the character and the story.

I do agree with those that call for a better conclusion to the Bond/Elektra story arc. It would have been much more effective had, as others have suggested, to not have Bond mourn at the end of the film. He had plenty of time to come to the realization that she had played him for a fool, and should have realized that he was going to have to do what he ended up doing to her at the end anyway. I think that having her revealed as the villain much later in the film would have been very effective, and would have made for a very interesting conclusion where Bond has to come to grips with what she has done to him and then act on that in a very short period of time.

[Turn]

I know many people don't like TWINE because it tries hard to be in the same style as OHMSS without succeeding, but I do think they at least should get some praise for trying. I can't say the same thing for TND.

The difference here is that TND set out to be a fast-moving action film with big stunts and the world hanging in the balance in the style of YOLT/TSWLM that accomplishes what it sets out to do.

TWINE is trying so hard to be a moving humanistic story with the action tacked on and it all falls flat. Bond is made to look like a fool and the most memorable thing is Denise Richards, and how anybody could believe she's a nuclear scientist. It's hard to praise something that falls apart so badly striving to be different and doesn't feel like a Bond movie at many moments.

That being said, welcome to CBn.

[AngryPolarBear]

Thanks.

Praise is a bit strong word, cause TWINE definitely fails in what it tries to accomplish. But after watching the bit boring action film TND was (a film that basicaly did the plot of YOLT and TSWLM all over again), I thought it was interesting that TWINE at least tried to be different. And I found the character of Elektra King to be one of the better things about it.

[Skudor]

I think Sophie Marceau's Elektra King is the worst Bond girl of them all. Yes, I'm entirely sincere.

She's not the greatest, and she wasn't well served in terms of script, but I always though she was pretty good overall (and pretty darned hot!).

Perhaps she simply looked good next to Denise Richards!

[6Joker9]

I personally found Marceau's Elektra-the-innocent/victim a lot more passable than Elektra-the-villain by a wide margin. Her acting seemed more comfortable and natural when portraying a naive face or simply a youthful one than trying to pass herself off as an evil egoistic person all of the sudden. Her evil aura that she tried to create just never translated very well in her; in a large part due to the fact that Marceau doesn't hold any menace (not even a sub-textual level) in her acting to begin with.

I tend to wonder, though, how she would have faired in a role such as Domino's in Thunderball or Kara's in The Living Daylights, where it would demand more of a damsel-in-distress performance instead of an evil-chick one. Not that her overall performance seemed to hold incredible potential, but there's no question that a more comfortable part of a less dominatrix role would have played more toward her abilities as an actress.

And while I find it quite exaggerated to place Marceau as the worst Bond-girl of all time, there's no question that she and Denise Richards - who definitely is more worthy of 'the worst Bond-girl of all-time' title - are as much of a disappointment as they have come in the franchise when talking about a group of Bond-girls featured in a film. Marceau at least had a role in the film, to be fair, but the casting of Denise Richards on the other hand is as transparent as they come, given that you might as well have pasted a playboy magazine cover in Brosnan's back for what is worth. The name of Denise Richards and the words 'nuclear physicist' just will never coincide.

Edited by 6Joker9, 18 March 2008 - 03:32 AM.

[Turn]

I personally found Marceau's Elektra-the-innocent/victim a lot more passable than Elektra-the-villain by a wide margin. Her acting seemed more comfortable and natural when portraying a naive face or simply a youthful one than trying to pass herself off as an evil egoistic person all of the sudden. Her evil aura that she tried to create just never translated very well in her; in a large part due to the fact that Marceau doesn't hold any menace (not even a sub-textual level) in her acting to begin with.

The more I think about this part of this performance, the more it reminds me of Barbara Carrera's Fatima Blush, who no doubt inspired Xenia Onatopp. Thing is Elektra is nowhere near as interesting as those other performances. Those are actually fun, while Elektra just seems forced to be different.

And while I find it quite exaggerated to place Marceau as the worst Bond-girl of all time, there's no question that she and Denise Richards - who definitely is more worthy of 'the worst Bond-girl of all-time' title - are as much of a disappointment as they have come in the franchise when talking about a group of Bond-girls featured in a film. Marceau at least had a role in the film, to be fair, but the casting of Denise Richards on the other hand is as transparent as they come, given that you might as well have pasted a playboy magazine cover in Brosnan's back for what is worth. The name of Denise Richards and the words 'nuclear physicist' just will never coincide.

I'll amend that by nominating Marceau and Robert Carlisle as possibly the most disappointing villains. One is never developed in an interesting way and the other is translated badly into a villain.

[Dekard77]

The most OTT Bond film ever. AVTAK was looked down mainly cos of Rog's ageing but the film was at least interesting to watch. Tanya Roberts looks so dam hot in that lingerie.
I saw TWINE at Leicester Square premiere night and most of the audience was laughing at the dialogue between M, Bond and Elektra. Brosnan who excellent in the previous Bond films is terribly over acting in this movie. Is he trying to cry when he talks to Elektra? The screenplay seems rushed and again Peter Lamont's sets are one step away from a direct to dvd movie. Common guys this is a Bond film so bring in the glamour. Look at the casino, the caviar factory and the control room (Elektra Office) looks really cheap.

The script was flat. The acting was bad, Elektra was out of place and finally who gave M a meaty roll????
The worst Bond Movie Ever!!!