93 replies to this topic

[Professor Dent]

I don't hear many saying they like it, however.

I'm in the camp that likes it. I think not having the EON polish (gunbarrel, Bond theme, etc.) is what makes the movie interesting to me. The story is decent as well. Come to think of it, I watch this movie more than a few of the official EON movies. Once the 1967 Casino Royale has its 2 disc special edition DVD released, I'm hoping NSNA is next on the list.

[Turn]

Another thing I like about NSNA is it's a nice showcase for Connery. When you think about it, NSNA being a Thunderball remake takes a backseat to it being about the star. He gets not only to play Bond as an older agent, but gets to handle the humor to a better degree than he did in DAF, and I'm saying that as someone who likes that film and his performance.

He won't be the dominant physical guy he was in his first four or five films, but he'll still be able to defeat the bad guys and that helps tone down the superman factor that Moore's Bond had during that period.

Another thing is his being able to be suave at his age without the sexist overtones of his '60s Bond films. This was around the time Connery was in his sexiest man alive phase at a time when most men that age were never acknowledged in that way.

So for me, Connery's performance in NSNA is a very underappreciated and underrated one when people talk about the lead actors' best Bonds.

[Loomis]

I don't hear many saying they like it, however.

Not only do I like it, I'd say it's one of the best Bond films ever (and certainly superior to the first three Eon outings of the 1980s).

[HH007]

I don't hear many saying they like it, however.

Not only do I like it, I'd say it's one of the best Bond films ever (and certainly superior to the first three Eon outings of the 1980s).

Really? You think it's better than For Your Eyes Only?
(It's better than A View To A Kill, for sure )

[Agent J.Bond]

I don't hear many saying they like it, however.

Not only do I like it, I'd say it's one of the best Bond films ever (and certainly superior to the first three Eon outings of the 1980s).

I couldn't agree more

[Publius]

To be perfectly honest, I think it's just the lack of a gunbarrel, titles, and Bond theme, and the music we did get simply isn't liked by very many people.

Anyway, it's an okay Bond movie on its own, and easily better than a few of the EON ones (DAF, AVTAK, DAD), IMO.

[HH007]

To be perfectly honest, I think it's just the lack of a gunbarrel, titles, and Bond theme, and the music we did get simply isn't liked by very many people.

Anyway, it's an okay Bond movie on its own, and easily better than a few of the EON ones (DAF, AVTAK, DAD), IMO.

Very True!

[triviachamp]

Well it is unofficial since it is not part of the EON series and owns the rights to the character I believe. Of course McClory had the legal right to make NSNA but it isn't part of the series. Might as well say that the previous Casino Royales are part of the series because they had Bond in them.

Anyway what I really don't like about NSNA is how bland and lifeless it feels. It looks like a cheap 80s TV movie. Also they desperately wanted NSNA to be a "real" Bond movie which made the lack of EON trappings more unappealing.

Anyway I can't say I think that NSNA is the worst as EON has made many films I don't care for.

[Mister Asterix]

To be perfectly honest, I think it's just the lack of a gunbarrel, titles, and Bond theme, and the music we did get simply isn't liked by very many people.

You know it

[triviachamp]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='785364' date='20 October 2007 - 15:25'][mra]You know it

[Mister Asterix]

Fleming gave EON the rights to the character didn't he? Didn't they try to use that to stop NSNA? Makes things confusing this "we own Bond, except other people own some Bond stories."

As for "official" and "part of the series" I understand your point but those terms are conflated when dealing with CR67 and NSNA as they are not part of the Eon series which is considered to be "official." Also I don't think anyone really thinks NSNA and CR67 are illegal films.

Also some people on this very thread think that NSNA is "part of the series" when it clearly isn't.

[mra]All of the rights, Danjaq

[RazorBlade]

Because it's bad?

[Publius]

Casino Royale has taught us that the icons need not be the same for it to be a film to be a ’Bold Film’. But Never Say Never Again did misfire in that category.

Absolutely. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I just think that not only missing certain elements, but as you said having bad replacements have contributed to it being ignored. It actively screams "different" to the point many fans casually pass it over or forget about it. Connery lends it most of its familiarity and "credibility", but it's still not easy being the odd man out in a sea of 22+ Bond movies, especially when the plot is based on an earlier one of those others.

However, where Never Say Never Again does succeed is with one of the best casts ever in a Bond film. Von Sydow as Blofeld. Brilliant. Klaus Maria Brandauer, best crazy sinister to date. Connery and Bernie Casey were the only Bond/Leiter combo that complete sold me that the two were best of friends. McCowen’s Algy provided one of the best Q scenes of any Bond film. Fox’s M was perfect for the premise of the film. Barbara Carrera defined femme fatale. And Kim Basinger... well, I hate Kim Basinger... but here she did nothing that made the film suffer.

Definitely. When Kim Basinger being mildly annoying at worst is the only drawback of a movie's cast, that's damn good.

[Loomis]

I don't hear many saying they like it, however.

Not only do I like it, I'd say it's one of the best Bond films ever (and certainly superior to the first three Eon outings of the 1980s).

Really? You think it's better than For Your Eyes Only?

Yes. And, having had a little think about it, I wouldn't say it's necessarily inferior to THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS and LICENCE TO KILL. I think it's better than most Bond films, really.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

Sometimes I find Never Say Never Again more interesting than Thunderball, but I think Thunderball is more classy and serious, although it has very boring parts. But, c'mon... Broccoli over McClory always...

[triviachamp]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='785374' date='20 October 2007 - 16:03']So McClory was given rights by Fleming, Eon, and the Courts to make Never Say Never Again. It all sounds

[Colossus]

Irvin Kershner is a much better director than John Glen and it shows. Compared to the workman style, bland, by the numbers ones Glen directed (with the exception of TLD), NSNA's performances really pop out.

Edited by Colossus, 21 October 2007 - 01:19 AM.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Irvin Kershner is a much better director than John Glen and it shows. Compared to the workman style, bland, by the numbers ones Glen directed (with the exception of TLD), NSNA's performances really pop out.

I agree; sometimes, I like to pretend that NSNA is the true sequel to FYEO, that Octopussy and AVTAK existed only in some horrifying parallel universe, and that TLD features some rejuvenated form of Bond.

Heck, they even reuse the "training exercise" concept from NSNA's opening sequence!

[Royal Dalton]

Legend has it, the film had a proxy director.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Legend has it, the film had a proxy director.

What, Irvin Kershner? I'm confused, isn't that why he was hired: to give NSNA the quality he lent to The Empire Strikes Back?

[DLibrasnow]

I don't hear many saying they like it, however.

Not only do I like it, I'd say it's one of the best Bond films ever (and certainly superior to the first three Eon outings of the 1980s).

Agree completely. Never Say Never Again is my favorite James Bond movie.

[LadySylvia]

I just watched NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN recently. It's not terrible. But I don't think it's all that great, either. The best thing about the movie was Sean Connery. But the movie seemed to lack a certain class or style that can be found even in the tackiest of EON movies. I also didn't care for certain other things . . . like:

*Barbara Carrera - who seemed ridiculously over-the-top as Fatima Blush. Famke Jenssen in GOLDENEYE seemed like subtle in compare to her.

*The video game duel between Bond and Largo - James Bond playing a video war game? It just seemed infantile to me.

*The Arabs bidding for Domino seemed crass.

*Edward Fox as M frankly annoyed me.

I realize that John Glen is not highly regarded as a Bond director, even if I don't share the sentiment. Even though Irwin Kershner is a good director (I saw him in person at the STAR WARS convention in L.A., last spring), I don't think that he gave NSNA any particular panache or style.

[triviachamp]

Legend has it, the film had a proxy director.

Are you refering to Connery effectively taking over NSNA at some points?

[Mr_Wint]

Irvin Kershner is a much better director than John Glen and it shows. Compared to the workman style, bland, by the numbers ones Glen directed (with the exception of TLD), NSNA's performances really pop out.

Are we talking about the same film? Because NSNA is THE worst directed Bondfilm I've ever seen.

[Blonde Bond]

I bought NSNA about week ago and I must say that there's nothing particularly wrong with it, even if my most resent viewing before buying it made me snore.

It is a bit like some tv-movie, but there's something good about it too.

The most annoying part is the beginning of the movie. It needed an action theme, but instead we got that annoying 'Never, Never say never again..' playing almost all way through the opening exercise sequence.

[Shaun Forever]

I've given NSNA some abuse over the years, however last week me and my partner decided to watch it, she was curious to see what it would be like. Needless to say I really enjoyed it, from start to finish I loved it.


Not sure why I brushed it off so many years ago, was I being a Bond snob? not accepting it because it wasn't "official", most likely.


One thing I did love was the ball room dancing scene, we've never seen anything like that in a Bond film, well we've seen Bond dance, but not like this, superb.


What's this I hear about early theatrical versions featuring Bond killing Blofeld, any truth to this?

Edited by Shaun Forever, 21 October 2007 - 05:35 PM.

[Fiona Volpe lover]

I do quite like NSNA.but watching it is a strange experience,it's Bond but it isn't Bond,if that makes sense. It doesn't help that it's a remake of Thunderball,which is one of my favourite Bond films,and many scenes compare unfavourably to the equivalant ones in TB. But if I forget that,it's quite an enjoyable action/adventure,and does have some good scenes [the health farm fight,the tango,the shark attack]. As for Connery,I like his light performance,but it's a little lazy really,he would have been better off going for a tougher performance to differentiate from Moore [although of course,HE had just been quite tough in FYEO,so maybe he thought that's the way Moore was going with Octopussy].

[DLibrasnow]

I also didn't care for certain other things . . . like:

*Barbara Carrera - who seemed ridiculously over-the-top as Fatima Blush.

...

*Edward Fox as M frankly annoyed me.

Those are two of the elements that I love about Never Say Never Again. Of course it also helps that Carrera is one of my favorite actresses (probably as a result of this movie) and Edward Fox makes a better M IMHO than Robert Brown.

What's this I hear about early theatrical versions featuring Bond killing Blofeld, any truth to this?

Never heard that one before though I have heard there is a deleted scene where Blofeld is killed by his cat. Apparently Von Sydows scenes were cut dramatically.

[triviachamp]

Irvin Kershner is a much better director than John Glen and it shows. Compared to the workman style, bland, by the numbers ones Glen directed (with the exception of TLD), NSNA's performances really pop out.

Are we talking about the same film? Because NSNA is THE worst directed Bondfilm I've ever seen.

I agree, NSNA's direction isn't a whole lot different from Glen's.

[Mr_Wint]

Irvin Kershner is a much better director than John Glen and it shows. Compared to the workman style, bland, by the numbers ones Glen directed (with the exception of TLD), NSNA's performances really pop out.

Are we talking about the same film? Because NSNA is THE worst directed Bondfilm I've ever seen.

I agree, NSNA's direction isn't a whole lot different from Glen's.

I have nothing against John Glen and I think he did a much better job than Kershner did with Bond. In fact, Glen is one of my favourite Bond-directors.