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Tmwtrt - Are Benson's Creative Juices Drying Up?


56 replies to this topic

#31 Roebuck

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Posted 24 August 2002 - 08:58 PM

Originally posted by rafterman
if you don't buy it then Glidrose will stop making the stuff and you will NEVER get another Bond book by anybody...whether you think Benson is rubbish or not, supporting him supports the Bond novels and their continuation...


Can we disabuse ourselves right now of the notion that if we keep buying the current product Gildrose will eventually serve up something better. Not going to happen.
More likely they'll keep using Benson till the poor sap's burned out then milk us suckers with some other will-write-for-peanuts-monkey.

#32 mccartney007

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Posted 24 August 2002 - 09:04 PM

Originally posted by General Koskov
Glidrose, in my opinion, is not trying very hard to put out a good product.


That is the understatement of the decade! Glidrose doesn't promote Benson's Bond at all. The Fleming reprints got a special press launch and they had promotional materials and games, etc for book stores that were interested. Benson's books would do a lot better if they were given that kind of promotion. Without promotion, no one knows about the books and therefore no one buys them (with the exception of the dedicated fan).


Also, does anyone else think that neither Benson, nor Gardner, 'tried' when writing their novelisations?


Are you kidding? I think Benson's novelizations are some of the best!

#33 jetsetwilly

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Posted 24 August 2002 - 09:38 PM

Originally posted by rafterman
if you don't buy it then Glidrose will stop making the stuff and you will NEVER get another Bond book by anybody


The argument here seems to be that bad Bond is better than no Bond at all; I disagree. Bad Bond drives the series down - it reduces the affection and loyalty of readers and ultimately results in there not being another generation of readers to continue the Bond legacy. And when there are no Bond fans left, who will be reading them? A dozen bad novels are the equivalent of one-night stands - great at the time, but no-one will remember them twenty years later. A good novel can be returned to years later and though the experience of reading and interpretation may be different, the essential sweetness of the first time is retained.

The Benson novels are like the new Star Wars films. People are consuming them, giving them the benefit of the doubt because of their heritage, but no-one really believes that they can hold a candle to the originals. Some things are better left without sequels or continuations. Perhaps if there was no Benson, then hungry Bond fans - fuelled by a huge film franchise - would seek out the original novels, and read and appreciate those. Someone who seeks and ultimately finds a book like The Facts of Death will feel cheated, unrewarded, and disinclined to look at another Bond book - even if the next one on the shelf is From Russia With Love or OHMSS. Would that be a good thing? I just don't feel that the presence of a character named James Bond - but not necessarily a character who is Bond - should be worthy of my patronage. The Man With The Golden Gun is my least favourite Bond film. If there were another half-dozen films right after that one that were just as bad, I don't think I'd be the only one on this site who would have washed my hands of the whole Bond film series. Why should I be expected to put up with bad novels?

#34 zencat

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Posted 25 August 2002 - 12:22 AM

Originally posted by Carver

Sure thing Zencat, how much would I owe ya? I bought NDOD today BTW, and I'm nearly finished on TND, so my knowledge on Literary Bond is increasing, with the Goldeneye novel coming soon, having been ordered for me.

It will be my gift to you for giving the book a chance. Of course, the paperback isn't available yet (even for pre-order) but send me your address and I'll order us both a copy from Amazon.co.uk as soon as it appears. I won't forget.

#35 zencat

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Posted 25 August 2002 - 12:28 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jetsetwilly
[B]The argument here seems to be that bad Bond is better than no Bond at all; I disagree.[QUOTE]

But I don't think the Benson books are bad. In fact, I think they're much better than the Gardner books. So the argument for me isn't an argument at all but a matter of taste. I like the books and want more. You don't like the books--and therefore you don't want them to exist in any form, even if it means ending the career of the literary Bond. Why? Why can't we who enjoy the books enjoy the books and you guys can pretend they don't exist?

#36 zencat

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Posted 25 August 2002 - 12:45 AM

Originally posted by mccartney007
Glidrose doesn't promote Benson's Bond at all.  The Fleming reprints got a special press launch and they had promotional materials and games, etc for book stores that were interested.  Benson's books would do a lot better if they were given that kind of promotion.  Without promotion, no one knows about the books and therefore no one buys them (with the exception of the dedicated fan).

Amen!

#37 rafterman

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Posted 25 August 2002 - 05:04 AM

The Benson books are good. Much better than John "I like lots of twists in my stories, but don't really like James Bond" Gardner...
Don't compare the Benson books to Star Wars, the prequels are still being made by the same person who made the originals and many people think they are bad just because they are different, this is an entirely different argument, but I like them and realize they are not the originals, nor should they be, just like I like Benson and realize he's not Fleming and isn't trying to be...
I also agree about the lack of marketing, hell I had to practically stumble onto Zero Minus Ten before I knew they were even making new Bond novels...
I guess really it's just a matter of taste, but the simple fact is no Benson=no Bond and plenty of people like it...

#38 scaramanga1

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Posted 25 August 2002 - 02:22 PM

Originally posted by mccartney007


Did your friend approach Glidrose on his own or using a literary agent?  If he did it by himself, then it's no wonder why he was turned down.  Publishers and people like Glidrose refuse to even look at material that is just handed to them by someone off the street.  Film and other companies are exactly the same way.


He's actually a screenwriter whose had a couple of films made - so I presume he approached Glidrose through an agent. I'll ask him and then I'll be able to let you know.

#39 Carver

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Posted 25 August 2002 - 08:29 PM

Originally posted by zencat

It will be my gift to you for giving the book a chance. Of course, the paperback isn't available yet (even for pre-order) but send me your address and I'll order us both a copy from Amazon.co.uk as soon as it appears. I won't forget.

Ok Zen, give us your e-mail address then I'll send you my home address:)

#40 zencat

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Posted 25 August 2002 - 09:10 PM

I just sent it to you via private message.

#41 AgentM

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Posted 16 September 2002 - 12:08 AM

Originally posted by zencat
I think Benson found his voice with HTTK and did his best work in NDOD.


I know this was from awhile back in the discussion, but I totally agree! (Almost). I actually think Doubleshot was slightly better than HTTK in terms of plot/characters, but in terms of action HTTK was better. It was in ALL these characters that NDOD failed.

Did anyone else notice the action was ALL the same? Bond constantly grabs a machine gun, fires, gets in a vehicle, drives away.

This is the pretitles. (Minus the vehicle)
This is his escape from the corsican hideout.
This is the finale. (Minus the vehicle again).

Still, you get the idea!

And the incredible 'plot twist' at the end? It didn't really surprise me.

#42 Jim

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Posted 16 September 2002 - 07:25 AM

Oh, so very, very tempted to deliver of "me view" on this one.

But I've done it before and any more repetition would be referencing myself. On November 22, we're going to see how tedious that can be.

Just a thought on the novelisation of DAD - given Mr Benson's fondness...no, not fondness...sugary drippy lurve for including in his "text" incidents that have happened before, and given the references folk are spotting cropping up in the latest film, the novelisation could be a mind-melting read.

#43 marktmurphy

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Posted 16 September 2002 - 08:06 AM

Originally posted by Jim
the novelisation could be a mind-melting read.


I wouldn't worry about that Jim; if you want to read it then your mind has already melted!

Try the TND novelisation to see how bad writing can get.

#44 zencat

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Posted 16 September 2002 - 03:37 PM

Sigh. The Benson's bashers are back. :) I've said all I can on this subject. I'm tired, so very tried.

Anytime any of you guys would like to send me some of your writing I will be happy to provide public feedback. :)

#45 BondzBK

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Posted 16 September 2002 - 03:48 PM

Zencat & Rafterman: with all due respect, I believe Benson's books are HURTING the Bond name and franchise. Whenever some weary traveler picks up a Benson paperback in an airport on a whim, thinking he'll give Bond a try again...and then finds it to be utter trash!...each time that happens, the Bond name loses a little of its luster. And when finally, a writer worthy of the Fleming legacy picks up the series: who's going to be left to be "suckered" into giving it a try??

#46 Jim

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Posted 16 September 2002 - 03:53 PM

Although it's a pithy expression, it's not simply "bashing". I want him to write with some semblance of style; you might not believe this, but I want him to succeed.

The literary Bond was more than just writing out a series of events that happen to people. It had panache. There was something beyond the reportage of events.

That this is absent, given the opportunity, is depressing. The florid, frequently absurd, flourishes have evaporated and we are presented with a series of events that begin, have a bit of a middle and then end.

That is subjective. But that's my opinion. And opinions are like that, innit?

#47 zencat

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Posted 16 September 2002 - 03:59 PM

I've said everything I can on this subject. I'm done.

#48 BondzBK

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Posted 16 September 2002 - 05:26 PM

For now, so is the literary Bond. Unfortunately.

#49 Q-Fan

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Posted 17 September 2002 - 06:33 AM

BondzBK, I have to get your back on this one. I agree that Benson cannot be compared to Fleming. Having been named after Ian Fleming, he is Bond to me, and I can't deal with Benson's work at all. The feel isn't the same at all, you almost expect Fabio to be the hero instead of 007. Sorry, but Fleming is pretty close to my heart. No one compares to him.

#50 Simon

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Posted 17 September 2002 - 11:58 AM

Originally posted by zencat
I've said everything I can on this subject. I'm done.


But I'm sure you're not really.

You are Benson's No 1 devout supporter and there will come another day when something equally abhorent turns up about Benson's output that will need defending.

But is it really defending, or the need to convert that keeps you moving forward? Afterall, as said so often, they are only opinions.

A point for your consideration. I understand you are a screen/script writer. One cannot really deny that Benson's talents do not lie wholely in writing - there are, afterall, many more talented writers out there to pick from. Are you sure, as someone used to reading and writing for a living, that your devotion to Bond is not clouding your, perhaps, better judgement?

#51 Mister Asterix

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Posted 17 September 2002 - 01:35 PM

Originally posted by Q-Fan
BondzBK, I have to get your back on this one.  I agree that Benson cannot be compared to Fleming.  Having been named after Ian Fleming, he is Bond to me, and I can't deal with Benson's work at all. The feel isn't the same at all, you almost expect Fabio to be the hero instead of 007.  Sorry, but Fleming is pretty close to my heart.  No one compares to him.


I see comparison of Fleming and his successors to the film Rocky and its sequels. Rocky is a classic and is vastly superior to the films followed. However, the Rocky sequels were still highly enjoyable and I would still watch them again and again. This is despite the fact that they will never and could never live up to the standard of the original. Enjoy what's there and don't let the fact that what's there cannot possibly match the standard of what came before ruin what could be a quite enjoyable experience.

#52 zencat

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Posted 17 September 2002 - 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Simon
Are you sure, as someone used to reading and writing for a living, that your devotion to Bond is not clouding your, perhaps, better  judgement?

Of course my judgment is clouded by my love of Bond, because I'm judging these as James Bond books! I

#53 Q-Fan

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Posted 17 September 2002 - 05:32 PM

Zencat, you are a screenwriter? Then you know the power of the written word. And the creator of a character understands him like no other. I just don't think they do it justice, that's all. I'm not trying to offend you or your likes. I also happen to think Moore was a great Bond. Maybe not my favorite, but I think he at least captured the essence, that I just don't feel Benson gets near. Just my opinion.

Oh and weren't all three Rocky's written by Sly? It's when other people come in and reinvent the wheel, I don't really care for.

#54 zencat

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Posted 17 September 2002 - 07:13 PM

Originally posted by Q-Fan
Zencat.. I'm not trying to offend you or your likes.  I also happen to think Moore was a great Bond.  Maybe not my favorite, but I think he at least captured the essence, that I just don't feel Benson gets near.  Just my opinion.


Hey, Q-fan, you didn't offend me at all. Your opinion is as valid as anyone

#55 Simon

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Posted 17 September 2002 - 10:35 PM

Originally posted by zencat

Of course my judgment.................................. unique requirements and restrictions of a Bond film, it's quite good.  

Guess I wasn't done :)


Good point, I'll give you that.

Sorry fella, I think my motivations were purely to see if you could be tempted back just one more time.

#56 zencat

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Posted 18 September 2002 - 12:34 AM

Originally posted by Simon
Sorry fella, I think my motivations were purely to see if you could be tempted back just one more time.

Doesn't take much, does it? :) Thanks for bringing me back, Simon. It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

#57 Q-Fan

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Posted 19 September 2002 - 04:33 PM

I've read the usual, Man with The Red Tattoo, Facts of Death. I'm certainly a good customer even though he's not my favorite. So, I'm not hurting the series. :)