44 replies to this topic

[vednam]

That there are way too many times in the film when the bad guys have a chance to kill Bond, but fail due to overly-elaborate execution schemes and putting it off in favor of (as Brosnan put it in the film) "chit-chat".

I understand that the "talking villian" and exotic deaths are part of the Bond tradition, but in GoldenEye, it happens too often, and it's just too silly. Here are the chances that Trevelyan had to kill Bond:

1. When Bond is captured in the graveyard scene and he finds out Trevelyan is Janus. Bond is stuffed in a helicopter with an ejector button conveniently close by.

2. When Trevelyan and Bond encounter each other on the train. Trevelyan can easily blow up the train as he is leaving, but he gives Bond 3 minutes.

3. When Bond is in Trevelyan's headquarters, captured, surrounded by henchmen, with Trevelyan going over his plan. After Bond has improbably escaped twice, Alec can get rid of him by simply shooting him. Instead he has to keep talking until Bond is able to find a way out.

4. When Trevelyan has Bond cornered during their fight, he has to take the time to mention "I was alway better than you" and it buys Bond enough time to escape.



There are probably a few other times I am overlooking. I certainly don't mind this happening once (or more times, so long as the villian has a decent reason not to kill Bond). But they do it too often in GoldenEye, insulting the intelligence of the viewers. It's also difficult to believe that a former MI6 agent, who knows all about the improbable ways in which guys like Bond can escape and then foil nefarious plots, would be so casual about getting rid of Bond. For me, it taints an otherwise good film.

[LadySylvia]

When Bond is captured in the graveyard scene and he finds out Trevelyan is Janus. Bond is stuffed in a helicopter with an ejector button conveniently close by.

I found it odd that Trevelyan had a shooter hidden somewhere to shoot Bond with a tranquilizer. If he was that intent on killing Bond, why not have Bond shot with real bullets?

[Jeff007]

" No no no, I'm going to leave them alone and not actually witness them dying, I'm just gonna assume it all went to plan. What?"

[vednam]

When Bond is captured in the graveyard scene and he finds out Trevelyan is Janus. Bond is stuffed in a helicopter with an ejector button conveniently close by.

I found it odd that Trevelyan had a shooter hidden somewhere to shoot Bond with a tranquilizer. If he was that intent on killing Bond, why not have Bond shot with real bullets?

I found it odd too. It didn't make much sense.

I rationalized that event in the same way I rationalize most cases where the villian has a chance to kill Bond but doesn't: the villian (in this case Trevelyan) is a megalomaniac and it's not enough to kill Bond. He must savor Bond's death by making it extravegant.

Such an explanation excuses the graveyard scene for me, but when you look at all the other later instances when Trevelyan could have easily killed Bond, that excuse runs dry. One would think that the more times Bond escapes, the more urgency Trevelyan would feel to get rid of Bond (especially given Trevelyan's knowledge of the world of spies).

Edited by vednam, 05 September 2007 - 10:53 PM.

[Judo chop]

1. When Bond is captured in the graveyard scene and he finds out Trevelyan is Janus. Bond is stuffed in a helicopter with an ejector button conveniently close by.

2. When Trevelyan and Bond encounter each other on the train. Trevelyan can easily blow up the train as he is leaving, but he gives Bond 3 minutes.

3. When Bond is in Trevelyan's headquarters, captured, surrounded by henchmen, with Trevelyan going over his plan. After Bond has improbably escaped twice, Alec can get rid of him by simply shooting him. Instead he has to keep talking until Bond is able to find a way out.

4. When Trevelyan has Bond cornered during their fight, he has to take the time to mention "I was alway better than you" and it buys Bond enough time to escape.

The only one I find excessive is #1.

#2 is meaningful. "The same 6 minutes you gave me". (Was it 6 minutes? Can't remember.)

#3 is your basic "we have him outnumbered 15 to 1" confidence at work. Bond is unarmed, even without his watch and all the other gadgets that Trev might have known about. I'd probably fall for it too. It's certainly not as stupid as leaving him tied up in the front seat of a helicopter with the ejector seat button staring him right in the eye.

#4 I don't find to be that much of a delay. I don't think the extra time gives Bond what he needs. Bond was already there waiting for the twitch of the finger. (Ok, so that's a bit fantastic. I'm allowed. It's Bond!)

So, how does GE look to you minus just #1?

[vednam]

1. When Bond is captured in the graveyard scene and he finds out Trevelyan is Janus. Bond is stuffed in a helicopter with an ejector button conveniently close by.

2. When Trevelyan and Bond encounter each other on the train. Trevelyan can easily blow up the train as he is leaving, but he gives Bond 3 minutes.

3. When Bond is in Trevelyan's headquarters, captured, surrounded by henchmen, with Trevelyan going over his plan. After Bond has improbably escaped twice, Alec can get rid of him by simply shooting him. Instead he has to keep talking until Bond is able to find a way out.

4. When Trevelyan has Bond cornered during their fight, he has to take the time to mention "I was alway better than you" and it buys Bond enough time to escape.

The only one I find excessive is #1.

#2 is meaningful. "The same 6 minutes you gave me". (Was it 6 minutes? Can't remember.)

#3 is your basic "we have him outnumbered 15 to 1" confidence at work. Bond is unarmed, even without his watch and all the other gadgets that Trev might have known about. I'd probably fall for it too. It's certainly not as stupid as leaving him tied up in the front seat of a helicopter with the ejector seat button staring him right in the eye.

#4 I don't find to be that much of a delay. I don't think the extra time gives Bond what he needs. Bond was already there waiting for the twitch of the finger. (Ok, so that's a bit fantastic. I'm allowed. It's Bond!)

So, how does GE look to you minus just #1?

You make some valid points. Maybe #4 isn't that big a deal.

Personally, I found #2 to be really stupid. The "6 minutes" thing didn't seem all that meaningful to me. Bond thought that Trevelyan was dead when he changed the timer on the bomb from 6 minutes to 3 minutes. I don't understand how that is some sort of betrayal or what have you, and that situation was completely different from the train scene. So I don't understand why Trevelyan felt it was necessary to give Bond the same time. More importantly, Bond had already escaped one of Trevelyan's death traps. Shouldn't Alec have been more careful this time to make sure to kill Bond? Also, having worked for MI6, shouldn't Alec have known that Bond probably had some sort of gadget which would enable him to escape from the train? So why give him time?

I suppose if instead of the helicopter scene Bond was just taken to prison, the failed murder plots wouldn't seem so excessive.

Edited by vednam, 05 September 2007 - 11:23 PM.

[Turn]

By putting Bond and Natalya in the helicopter to die, it implicates them in its theft and takes the heat off Janus as authorities are still looking for it. It makes Bond look like a traitor.

Where Trevelyan really screwed up was not using a gag as her big mouth would make anybody wake up and want to get out of the thing so she would shut up.

Trevelyan is one of the ultimate gloating Bond villains, along with Goldfinger. He can't resist throwing it in Bond's face that he's still alive and better than he is.

[LadySylvia]

By putting Bond and Natalya in the helicopter to die, it implicates them in its theft and takes the heat off Janus as authorities are still looking for it. It makes Bond look like a traitor.

Wouldn't this have been irrevelant, considering that Bond had earlier been spotted trying to stop the Tiger helicopter thieves?

Trevelyan is one of the ultimate gloating Bond villains, along with Goldfinger. He can't resist throwing it in Bond's face that he's still alive and better than he is.

Don't you sometimes get tired of these villains? I know I do. Thank goodness not all of the Bond villains harbored this so-called "meglomania".

Edited by LadySylvia, 06 September 2007 - 02:55 AM.

[SecretAgentFan]

Isn

[stamper]

Not in CR.

#1 was really stupid, but the stupidest thing is that the art director found necessary to include a red ejector button that is as big as a Russ Meyer wixen breast.

And that it takes 90 seconds for Bond to find it ! Must have been getting old with age.

[K1Bond007]

Well they were supposed to be good friends. They touched on it a few times, but the fact that Alec didn't just off Bond at all the chances he had says something to me especially the scene in the statue park where he tranqs Bond rather than just shooting him. He always gives Bond a chance and I have to say I don't think he really expected Bond to die in the helicopter where.. momentarily after that crisis is over, the Russians just happen to show up. Honestly, I don't have a problem with it. Alec's ego also got the better of him and I think he actually enjoyed facing off against Bond to prove he was better. When it got to the end where Bond practically killed his plan and it was finally more personal, then it was time to kill and it was also time for Alec to 'brag' to Bond that he was "always better". Didn't work out for him though.

[sharpshooter]

Well they were supposed to be good friends. They touched on it a few times, but the fact that Alec didn't just off Bond at all the chances he had says something to me especially the scene in the statue park where he tranqs Bond rather than just shooting him. He always gives Bond a chance and I have to say I don't think he really expected Bond to die in the helicopter where.. momentarily after that crisis is over, the Russians just happen to show up. Honestly, I don't have a problem with it. Alec's ego also got the better of him and I think he actually enjoyed facing off against Bond to prove he was better. When it got to the end where Bond practically killed his plan and it was finally more personal, then it was time to kill and it was also time for Alec to 'brag' to Bond that he was "always better". Didn't work out for him though.

Well said. It is the unique relationship the pair had intertwined with classic Bond scenarios.

[00Twelve]

I agree that Trevelyan should have shorted out the "eject" button (or at least covered it with a piece of paper saying "NO!!" a la Apollo 13 ), but he placed Bond there because he needed to get rid of both Bond and the implicating Tiger. Oh, and yes, should have gagged Natalya and pinned her feet away from Bond's seat. Would have been a near-hilarious scene had Bond just slept through the whole thing.

Now, I'm assuming that the French and Russian governments got everything settled with the Tiger's destruction on Russian soil after the film?

[LadySylvia]

[quote name='SecretAgentFan' post='769720' date='5 September 2007 - 22:11']Isn

[HildebrandRarity]

My only meaningful problem with this movie is the horrid score by Serra, the black sheep/ugly duckling of the canon.

Edited by HildebrandRarity, 06 September 2007 - 07:00 PM.

[dodge]

My only problem, aside from Brosnan's most tepid performance as Bond, is the Bond anthem blaring during the tank chase scene. An unwelcome intrusion on the haunting, boldly original score by the great Eric Sera. Que sera, Serra!

[Zorin Industries]

That after six years that was all we got... it's one of my worse Bond films..the other being THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH - which is actually worse...

[draxingtonstanley]

...for reasons I can't quite explain,it feels a bit claustrophobic. Hemmed in.
Not studio bound particularly,there's plenty of location stuff. But it just feels
a bit closed in. Vague,I know. But it's my overiding impression of this film,even
though I think it's pretty good.

[HildebrandRarity]

My only problem, aside from Brosnan's most tepid performance as Bond, is the Bond anthem blaring during the tank chase scene. An unwelcome intrusion on the haunting, boldly original score by the great Eric Sera. Que sera, Serra!

[Mr_Wint]

There's in easy way to explain this. If the villain kills Bond there wouldn't be a film. The fact that Bond barely survives each time is nothing more than a coincidence. And Bondfilms (and many, many other films) relies on coincidences (just take CR as an example).

[DLibrasnow]

By putting Bond and Natalya in the helicopter to die, it implicates them in its theft and takes the heat off Janus as authorities are still looking for it. It makes Bond look like a traitor.

That's the way I took it too.

[00Twelve]

^^Ah, yes. Good point.

[Judo chop]

...for reasons I can't quite explain,it feels a bit claustrophobic. Hemmed in.
Not studio bound particularly,there's plenty of location stuff. But it just feels
a bit closed in. Vague,I know. But it's my overiding impression of this film,even
though I think it's pretty good.

I feel it too.

It's as if someone forgot to take John Glen's name off the list.

[JimmyBond]

...for reasons I can't quite explain,it feels a bit claustrophobic. Hemmed in.
Not studio bound particularly,there's plenty of location stuff. But it just feels
a bit closed in. Vague,I know. But it's my overiding impression of this film,even
though I think it's pretty good.

You gotta admit though, the scenes in Monaco are beautifully shot. Too bad Bond didnt spend more time there.

[Royal Dalton]

...for reasons I can't quite explain,it feels a bit claustrophobic. Hemmed in.
Not studio bound particularly,there's plenty of location stuff. But it just feels
a bit closed in. Vague,I know. But it's my overiding impression of this film,even
though I think it's pretty good.

It's called Martin Campbell shooting everything in close-up.

[PlayItBogart]

Just think of it as Trevelyan's character flaw that it'd kill him to just kill Bond.

[JWM]

i think you guys are going a little far with this now. You guys are so into hating everything PB did. He's not as good as Mr. Craig but PB was the bond when i got into bond and starting watching all the movies. I may be wrong, but in my opinion and may observation of the post in this part of the forum. And I myself don't post much but i do come here daily and enjoy reading the post on this great forum. But it just seems to me that not alot of you like PB. I don't have a problem with him i though he did a great job durning his tenture. But he is not bond anymore and craig is so im fully behind Mr. Craig. CR was one of my top five bond movies. And no a PB movie is not in that top five. But that still doesn't make PB a failure. If GE was a failure then we wouldn't be here right now talking about the 22 james bond movie. In my opinion.

[JimmyBond]

People are certainly entitled to dislike Goldeneye. While I don't hate Brosnan (I actually enjoy TND and DAD), I just can't bring myself to like GE, there are far too many flaws in the film, I feel.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I hate the sauna scene more than any of the glaring plot holes. Connery would have laughed at Zenia and her thigh assault,b-slapped the crap outta her and given her a good rogering...and she'd like it too.This is perhaps the worst moment in the series(even worse than the para surf sequence bc Bond looks like such a wuss).

[JimmyBond]

This is perhaps the worst moment in the series(even worse than the para surf sequence bc Bond looks like such a wuss).

Worse than Connery's Bond getting beat up by two women while wearing a pink tie