219 replies to this topic

[JimmyBond]

That's a fun* exchange.

But here's my 2 cent prediction: Brosnan would have played it consistent w/ the rest of his performance in TWINE; ultra-serious, teeth-grinding, dour and huffy-puffy, and it wouldn't have worked. Because it wouldn't have been fun.

Did you see the clip of that exchange? Brosnan actually plays it in a way that make's that exchange feel genuine. It's a small glimmer in a film that's inconsistent in tone. Too bad it was cut.

[Judo chop]

No. Never saw the clip. If Broz actually had some fun with it, then I honor the forfeiture of my 2 pennies and stand corrected.

[DaveBond21]

You are going to get awful lonely DaveBond21 in this thread.

I think after 151 replies I am now justified in saying it was worth posting this thread, even if some people ignored the subject title. It's supposed to be the only safe haven from TWINE hatred.

[JimmyBond]

No. Never saw the clip. If Broz actually had some fun with it, then I honor the forfeiture of my 2 pennies and stand corrected.

There's a thread on this forum that has a link to it, actually.

[Tybre]

The scene is here, beginning at somewhere around 3:50.

[Judo chop]

Blah. I was wrong – he doesn’t play it dour. He just throws it away. It still isn’t ‘fun’, IMO.

[Tybre]

Blah. I was wrong – he doesn’t play it dour. He just throws it away. It still isn’t ‘fun’, IMO.

Yeah, it really is a pity. The potential was there for a really fun exchange.

[Aris007]

And I love the line "See you back at the lodge".

I myself think that this was the weekest line in the whole film!

In an ongiong discussion on another thread, it was posed that Pierce Brosnan doesn't "count" as Bond. I think that's a silly thing to suggest, but a more viable argument might be made that TWINE doesn't "count" as a Bond film by route of the premise that the lead character least resembles the Fundamental James Bond™ here than anywhere else in the Bond canon (and indeed resembles him less than many places outside the Bond canon).

People who believe that this is true can't distinguish black from white. How can they distinguish true from fraud Bond?

[BrozFan]

That's a fun* exchange.

But here's my 2 cent prediction: Brosnan would have played it consistent w/ the rest of his performance in TWINE; ultra-serious, teeth-grinding, dour and huffy-puffy, and it wouldn't have worked. Because it wouldn't have been fun.

Blah. I was wrong – he doesn’t play it dour. He just throws it away. It still isn’t ‘fun’, IMO.

Your posts often have a lot worth reading in them, if you don't mind me saying so (depsite the unfounded negativity levied at Brosnan) but when you say he would have played a scene "like the rest of his performance in TWINE: ultra-serious, teeth-grinding, dour and huffy-puffy, and it wouldn't have worked. Because it wouldn't have been fun", then claim the scene wasn't played dour, and consequently "it still isn’t ‘fun’" it would seem the man can't do right for doing wrong!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Brosnan's delivery. The scene isn't "fun" and didn't work because Dench's line is such a horrible, over-the-top, self-referential and cliched bit of dialogue that takes you out of the scene because it is totally abstract and utterly pointless.

Also, despite the fact that Dench is such a phenomenal actress, I think it is her that "throws it away" with such a pedestrian delivery. I'd imagine because she thought it was dire too. Far worse than the 'prehistoric dinosaur [...] relic of the cold war' rhetoric from Goldeneye that often gets slammed but at least aided in constructing some sort of tense relationship between the two.
This cut scene from TWINE does absolutely nothing, just like all the nod-and winks of DAD which at least made some sort of sense in the latter because it was marketed as an anniversary movie. Here, it is rubbish. Like something out of Austin Powers.

Edited by BrozFan, 11 August 2009 - 05:47 PM.

[BrozFan]

While we're on the subject of the skiing, I agree that it's a beautiful scene from the moment that Bond and Elektra leap from the helicopter to the very end of the parahawk scene. I love Arnold's music for this scene, very Barry-esque.

And I love the line "See you back at the lodge".

What I love about that scene is when they stop for moment before the parahawks show up, exhange a few words, then Bond seemingly bored at listening to Elektra ramble on decides to check out her bum instead! Then he starts licking his lips!
You could say he's looking over the precipice, but I really don't think so. A great unintentionally hilarious moment:
(1:39 in the clip)

[Tybre]

That's a fun* exchange.

But here's my 2 cent prediction: Brosnan would have played it consistent w/ the rest of his performance in TWINE; ultra-serious, teeth-grinding, dour and huffy-puffy, and it wouldn't have worked. Because it wouldn't have been fun.

Blah. I was wrong – he doesn’t play it dour. He just throws it away. It still isn’t ‘fun’, IMO.

Your posts often have a lot worth reading in them, if you don't mind me saying so (depsite the unfounded negativity levied at Brosnan) but when you say he would have played a scene "like the rest of his performance in TWINE: ultra-serious, teeth-grinding, dour and huffy-puffy, and it wouldn't have worked. Because it wouldn't have been fun", then claim the scene wasn't played dour, and consequently "it still isn’t ‘fun’" it would seem the man can't do right for doing wrong!

Well just because it isn't played dour doesn't automatically make it "fun". He's simply saying that Brosnan may not have played it dour like he thought he would, but it's still kind of bad. And I have to agree with him there.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Brosnan's delivery.

I disagree. His delivery comes across as incredibly uncomfortable. As if he's just saying it to get it out of the way. Which he probably was, but he should still make an effort to make us buy it.

The scene isn't "fun" and didn't work because Dench's line is such a horrible, over-the-top, self-referential and cliched bit of dialogue that takes you out of the scene because it is totally abstract and utterly pointless.

Again, I disagree. Hollowed-out volcanoes might've been too specific, but I still think it was a good line and had the potential for a good joke.

Also, despite the fact that Dench is such a phenomenal actress, I think it is her that "throws it away" with such a pedestrian delivery.

Now here I can agree with you. Dench's delivery was pretty awful as well.

To me, the whole scene feels like they should've gone back and reshot it. Even if it still wound up on the cutting room floor, I hate seeing it in the sorry state it's in.

[Judo chop]

Your posts often have a lot worth reading in them, if you don't mind me saying so

I don’t mind. Thank you.

but when you say he would have played a scene "like the rest of his performance in TWINE: ultra-serious, teeth-grinding, dour and huffy-puffy, and it wouldn't have worked. Because it wouldn't have been fun", then claim the scene wasn't played dour, and consequently "it still isn’t ‘fun’" it would seem the man can't do right for doing wrong!

It might seem that way, but you’ve slightly misquoted me. I never said Broz’s final line wasn’t fun because it wasn’t dour. Obviously that would have been a total contradiction of myself. I only predicted he’d play it dour (based on his performance in 98% of the film). It turns out he doesn’t. Instead, he throws it away. So much so that he almost makes it sound like he’s responding to a different statement altogether, as if he’s too embarrassed to deal with the nod he’s been served. There are many ways for an actor to present a line, and I think neither of these two options were the best way to go. As you said, M’s line is so blatantly self-referential, I’d want a response to acknowledge that fact. I would have hoped for a twinkle in the eye. There is no point in trying to make this work as a literal, serious exchange, so have some fun (which would then be the point).

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Brosnan's delivery.

Maybe not. But then I’d say there’s nothing remarkably right about it either. I do think it could have been much better. And that is how I feel about almost all of his Bond performances across the board. I find myself having to say this a lot, because I get the sense that folks tend to see me as a blinded, run-with-the-herd BrozHater, but it’s not as if the man is without skill. I just don’t think his skill is in Bond. There are brief moments of inspiration here and there, but he can’t consistently maintain it. On the other hand, I like him a lot in THOMAS CROWN and I absolutely adore him in THE MATADOR. (I almost listed the film as one of my top-10 of the millennium, thanks largely to him.) I am NOT a mindless “BrozHater”, if such a thing even exists. I just call it as I see it.

And of course I've repeated everything Tybre just said, nearly verbatim.

I'm always doing that!

[BrozFan]

Your posts often have a lot worth reading in them, if you don't mind me saying so

I don’t mind. Thank you.

but when you say he would have played a scene "like the rest of his performance in TWINE: ultra-serious, teeth-grinding, dour and huffy-puffy, and it wouldn't have worked. Because it wouldn't have been fun", then claim the scene wasn't played dour, and consequently "it still isn’t ‘fun’" it would seem the man can't do right for doing wrong!

It might seem that way, but you’ve slightly misquoted me. I never said Broz’s final line wasn’t fun because it wasn’t dour. Obviously that would have been a total contradiction of myself. I only predicted he’d play it dour (based on his performance in 98% of the film). It turns out he doesn’t.

But if you claim most of his performance is not fun, partially due to its 'dourness' then his lack of dour is not enough to lift a particular scene it does seem Brosnan has little place left to go. Tonally.

Instead, he throws it away. So much so that he almost makes it sound like he’s responding to a different statement altogether, as if he’s too embarrassed to deal with the nod he’s been served.

I can see your point, but maybe it is his attempt to 'ground' his line against Dench's so obviously OTT one. It is an embarrassing moment so if he was embarrassed I can see why.

There are many ways for an actor to present a line, and I think neither of these two options were the best way to go. As you said, M’s line is so blatantly self-referential, I’d want a response to acknowledge that fact. I would have hoped for a twinkle in the eye. There is no point in trying to make this work as a literal, serious exchange, so have some fun (which would then be the point).

There are only so many ways to say "It only takes one". Besides how do you actually define a "twinkle in the eye"? You don't mention what exactly what it is that you would prefer. I cannot see how this line would have appeared more obviously fun, without Bond grinning which of course would not fit because M was slagging him off. The latter fact being why the current tone (down-played 'smart-alec/sarcastic') fits, I can't imagine anyone would react light-heartedly/fun when you are being criticised for narrowmindedness which is what was happening when we look past the YOLT reference. I think such an unrequired reference is fun enough.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Brosnan's delivery.

Maybe not. But then I’d say there’s nothing remarkably right about it either.

I agree. But I think that is half the point. His line is not the one of the two which is meant to stand out.

I do think it could have been much better. And that is how I feel about almost all of his Bond performances across the board. I find myself having to say this a lot, because I get the sense that folks tend to see me as a blinded, run-with-the-herd BrozHater, but it’s not as if the man is without skill. I just don’t think his skill is in Bond. There are brief moments of inspiration here and there, but he can’t consistently maintain it. On the other hand, I like him a lot in THOMAS CROWN and I absolutely adore him in THE MATADOR. (I almost listed the film as one of my top-10 of the millennium, thanks largely to him.) I am NOT a mindless “BrozHater”, if such a thing even exists. I just call it as I see it.

I think for such a perfunctorily written line, any need for better performance, or concern at anything slighly worse, are inconsequential observations when analysing the character. I'm not attempting to make excuses, because I think Brosnan is pretty far from the best actor that ever lived, but not every line will, or can, be gold. You say he can't maintain the moments of inspiration, but in all seriousness how much inspiration could you bring to a line like this? Really?

As I see it, his raised eyebrows and subtle smirk are more than enough to envoke some sort of paralinguistic acknowledgement to her line.

Additionally, I find it somewhat ironic that 'his' Bond perfomance can be criticised from a deleted scene. If it was cut from the film, it is obviously not viewed as the 'A-game'. I've already said that I thought Dench's performance here was crap, but that in no way undermines my opinion of her overall performance between GE-QoS.
You could say that depsite that theory, this cut line is what you see as emblematic of what is lacking in his perfomance. Honestly though, I think you are asking too much/being unduly harsh when we are, when all is said and done, talking about a VERY crappy scene.

[Judo chop]

I can imagine the line delivered better. Granted, if it were, it would stand out, probably painfully so, from the rest of the film which drowns itself in a caviar pit of pretension. I’m not trying to convince you here that the scene is a keeper. The point is moot as I don’t think the entire film is a keeper. But I can imagine it done with more fun.

Now, you want me to describe to you ‘a twinkle in the eye’ and you think I’m being hard on Brosnan for asking him to perform the scene differently!?

I will try, though.

I think Broz should have done away with the movements. Stand firm, and look M in the eye as it’s delivered. Don’t shift about uncomfortably. Take it full on. Say the words clearly (he mumbles it) and stare her down as if you mean it. But relax the mouth. No cheesy grin, but at the same time no jawbones jutting out as you chew on venom held in check. As a director, I’d want to leave a split-second’s pause as M allows it to sink in.

Basically, do what Roger would have done.

[BrozFan]

I can imagine the line delivered better. Granted, if it were, it would stand out, probably painfully so, from the rest of the film which drowns itself in a caviar pit of pretension. I’m not trying to convince you here that the scene is a keeper. The point is moot as I don’t think the entire film is a keeper. But I can imagine it done with more fun.

Now, you want me to describe to you ‘a twinkle in the eye’ and you think I’m being hard on Brosnan for asking him to perform the scene differently!?

I will try, though.

I think Broz should have done away with the movements. Stand firm, and look M in the eye as it’s delivered. Don’t shift about uncomfortably. Take it full on. Say the words clearly (he mumbles it) and stare her down as if you mean it. But relax the mouth. No cheesy grin, but at the same time no jawbones jutting out as you chew on venom held in check. As a director, I’d want to leave a split-second’s pause as M allows it to sink in.

I prefer the scene as is. Your redition sounds a bit too Dalton/Craig for me... not quite fun.

If he's staring her down, I'd imagine that might *appear* as if he were offended by the comment. If this were the case, I don't see how he really could be seeing as there is some (albeit barbed) truth to her comment.
From wanting the delivery clearer I take it you want some more force, or at least the kind of 'force' that would accompnay clarity? All in all, I don't undestand why M would need to let this particular response "sink in" whatever the delivery. She's just winding him up!

If we were then treated to a 'shot-down' reaction from Dench it would only make the scene look more like uncomfortable verbal sparring than anything fun. Your description reminds me a lot of their GoldenEye exchange, which whilst good, would undermine their developing respect/friendship at this point in the Brosnan era.

By saying the line (as is) Brosnan, pretty much lets it slide, indicating there is some truth to M's statement; and not appearing offended keeps the tone light. Despite being on the recieving end of critcism he doesn't rise to her bait and manages to correct her at the same time - but without coming off as a mardarse.

Basically, do what Roger would have done.

Didn't you see him raise the eyebrows?

Edited by BrozFan, 11 August 2009 - 08:10 PM.

[Judo chop]

Didn't you see him raise the eyebrows?

Yes, but there was NO TWINKLE!!!

[Tybre]

Didn't you see him raise the eyebrows?

Yes, but there was NO TWINKLE!!!

Spoiler

Couldn't resist

[Judo chop]

He's Bruce Dickinson. He knows what he's talking about.

Gawleee. I kinda feel like watching AVTAK now.

[BrozFan]

Didn't you see him raise the eyebrows?

Yes, but there was NO TWINKLE!!!

Spoiler

Couldn't resist

You can argue he has no twinkle, I will point out he has no


MOLE!

...Perhaps the source of all of Sir Rog's twinkle powers??????

Edited by BrozFan, 11 August 2009 - 08:32 PM.

[DaveBond21]

It's great to have Zukovsky back in this one, but I wish his scenes could have been enlongated, especially the meetings in Baku and Istanbul.

[Mr. Van Bierk]

I prefere Pierce like that :



Very "Bondian"

Not like this :



"You're valuable"...

Edited by Mr. Van Bierk, 08 October 2009 - 07:44 AM.

[SecretAgentFan]

? Care to elaborate?

[Mr. Van Bierk]

I don't like his hair in TWINE (and DAD).

[mattjoes]

I've been revisiting the Brosnan Bonds, and I'm starting to realize I actually miss that era a great deal. Sure, the films lost some of their Britishness and played it a little too safe in the 90s, but I still say we got three good-to-very-good films... and Die Another Day, which is so-so. I applaud the producers for shaking things up with Casino Royale, but after Quantum of Solace I can safely say I've grown tired of the gritty Bond film.

TWINE is very good and actually feels refreshing nowadays. It manages to strike a right balance between being too gritty and being too over the top. It features Brosnan's best performance as Bond, no doubt; he is confident and comfortable in the part. There also is terrific support from Sophie Marceau, Robbie Coltrane and, despite not being given much to do, Robert Carlyle. The story is interesting and I like that it has a motif (oil) to distinguish it from the other films.

The film's only real downsides are Denise Richards and the slightly dull action scenes. I will defend them in one particular aspect, though. It was argued before in this thread that the bit with the speedboat racing through the streets of London is something right out of a Moore Bond film. What's wrong with that? Bond films are stylish fantasies. If done right, you can have both that kind of scene and something like Bond murdering Elektra in cold blood, in the same film.

Best line: "The insurance company is never going to believe this!"

[Mr. Blofeld]

I think I know why everyone hates "It only takes one"; Brosnan puts emphasis on the wrong word.

He says:

BOND: "It only takes one."

...when he's supposed to be saying:

BOND: "It only takes one."

As it is, it leaves emphasis on the taking, not the "one madman", making the line seem completely unrelated to the one preceding it.

[Peckinpah1976]

Of the Brosnan films I think this is the best by some margin; yes it's flawed but at least they tried to make a "proper film" instead of a "greatest hits compilation" which seems to be the approach taken with the other three. Denise Richards is awful (looks great in a wet t-shirt though...), some of the action could do with being tightened up and the moments of humour are even more awkward and misplaced than usual but everything else is fine IMO - strong plot, Sophie Marceau and Robert Carlisle are excellent, the M kidnap stuff works well and the underwater climax is terrific.

There are other, far more popular titles in the series that have a lot more wrong with them IMO.

Edited by Peckinpah1976, 17 October 2009 - 02:45 AM.

[Tybre]

I think I know why everyone hates "It only takes one"; Brosnan puts emphasis on the wrong word.

He says:

BOND: "It only takes one."

...when he's supposed to be saying:

BOND: "It only takes one."

As it is, it leaves emphasis on the taking, not the "one madman", making the line seem completely unrelated to the one preceding it.

That's a part of it, but his delivery is also...kind of weak, like all of his quips. Honestly the only quip he ever seems comfortable delivering, to me, is "Pardon me, forgot to knock".

[ChristopherZ22]

no TWINE-bashers allowed!

Oops! I guess I'm in the wrong place. I had no sleep last night, so I must be really tired.

[Casino007Royale2]

TWINE was my first bond film, so it will always be special to me... by no means the best bond, but i like it nevertheless.

check out this TWINE trailer I made!

[DaveBond21]

I watched it again on TV on Friday night. TV stations love the Brosnan Bonds don't they?

It was excellent once more. It has an excellent PTS with the wonderful Bilbao bankers office bungee jump followed by the Thames boat chase. It has a great ski chase, Valentin Zukovsky returns and there is some brutal fighting.

By the way, I love it when Bond smashes the banker in the face, grabs him, and holds the gun to his head shouting "Get UP! Come on!".

People seem to continually forget how rough Brosnan's 007 could be.