219 replies to this topic

[DaveBond21]

Am I really the only Christmas Jones defender? I knew I was alone, but I didn't think I was THAT alone.

I like her. Especially when her top is getting wet, at the end.

[Forward Look]

Am I really the only Christmas Jones defender? I knew I was alone, but I didn't think I was THAT alone.

I like her. Especially when her top is getting wet, at the end.

That was the only good thing I liked about her!

[ChandlerBing]

TWINE was good, but would have been even better if it had been more like Vertigo, if some of you know what I mean.

[Tybre]

Am I really the only Christmas Jones defender? I knew I was alone, but I didn't think I was THAT alone.

I like her. Especially when her top is getting wet, at the end.

That was the only good thing I liked about her!

Ditto

[DaveBond21]

What about this deleted scene where Bond flashes M and Robert King?

Attached Files

•  TWINE_Bond_flashes.jpg   193.26KB   38 downloads

[JimmyBond]

M's reaction I can understand, but from the looks of it. King seems to be batting for the other team.

[DaveBond21]

M's reaction I can understand, but from the looks of it. King seems to be batting for the other team.

Well then surely you can understand his reaction too?

[J.B.]

Loved TWINE. It is hard to judge it now because compared to CR and QoS it is a totally different film, different era, and different formula. (IMO) We can compare CR and QoS with only Bourne films, period. Folks can say all day long that they are not like Bourne films but they are. It is obvious that this is the direction EON wanted Bond to go in. And, they succeeded in that they were done even better than the Bourne films. They were great films in the new era of Bond which is a more real life type of movie. I think all of the films today that are this genre are more real life. I usually come out of these movies stressed and tired. Movies of the old formula regardless of the Bond actor were fun and great to watch and enjoy. I love them all. I have the Bond actors I prefer but they all were great. Craig is great as well in this new era. Not the era I prefer, but you cant deny his talent.

But, I digress...back to topic: TWINE was great b/c it had Bond fighting his emotions and his duty as 007. It had the gadgets, girls and genuine actor who loved the role and did it well with his own strengths and weaknesses. Had he had a decent script (in any of his films) there would have been less bashing and more just positive remarks.

The PTS was great fun especially as the boat streaked across the canal corner and soaked the two policeman putting that boot on the car. My Dad laughs at that every time we catch it on TV. They played that well.

The thing I wish is that on the CD music soundtrack that I bought of the movie, it had the music for the skiing scene. What great music this was and they didnt even include it on the track. I couldnt believe it. Why would you leave it out?

Christmas Jones saving grace in her casting and role was when she said (paraphrased), if I dont recover that plutonium, someone is going to have my a**. And Bond says, "first things, first..." PRICELESS!

[darthbond]

Let it never be said that there is no TWINE lovers. It is definatly the closest to Fleming of the Brosnan movies, which always scores high. Plus, the film looks impressive in no small part due to Adrian Biddle, BSC. The music compliments the film in every way in it feels like it is tailor made to fit the film. And I love the film's tone. You feel like it's a more personal story against the backdrop of events that are epic enough to change the world. In that sense, it feels closer to OHMSS than any of the other Brosnan films.

In short, I absolutely love TWINE.

darthbond

[bribond]

I think by and large TWINE is Brosnan's best Bond film, although Goldeneye had a better script. Brosnan gives a multi layer performance, expressing Bond's sadness at seeing the woman he cares about in a difficult situation, his physical pain due to the injury, and perseverance, his athleticism in the the various physical action scenes, his quick wits under pressure, and his vulnerability with relation to Elektra. What I enjoyed about that relationship, and also examined much further in Casino Royale, is even in the rare event that Bond falls hard for a woman he does not become all mushy, he remains a strong character, he's just happier.

Robbie Coltrane as Zukovsky was a joy to have back, even though I kind of missed his edge from Goldeneye until his last scene, which was very well done. The torture chair was a good idea to rev up interest in the film late in the game, as well as the subsequent emotional climax between Bond, Elektra and M. It made the following submarine bit well done and edited but lacking the same power, since obviously Apted's strength is drama.

I don't really mind that Denise Richards is miscast (a shame since she is clearly game for anything) since the real Bond woman in the film is Sophie Marceau's Elektra. A stronger other leading lady might have been a distraction from that central conflict. The ultimate Bond woman, Judi Dench, gives her best performance in a Brosnan Bond film and her extra involvement was fine with me.

Q's last scene was well done, the special effect where Bond and M look at the hologram of Renard was pretty neat and I also really liked the office scene at the beginning where Bond gets to show all sides of his personality, flirty, quick witted, intuitive, dangerous and athletic.

In the final scene between Bond and Elektra, I could not help but compare Brosnan to Dalton. If Dalton had played that scene there would have been no doubt that he could shoot her in cold blood. With Brosnan you doubt it at first but then buy it when he does (although despite the fact that she is unarmed she definitely provokes him). The doubt adds suspense to the scene and probably makes it work better.

One of my favorite Bond films and Brosnan's best (though again I liked Goldeneye's script and leading lady better). Had Goldeneye had a better score and had Brosnan been a little more confident in the role at that point, I might stick it above TWINE.

[DaveBond21]

The PTS was great fun especially as the boat streaked across the canal corner and soaked the two policeman putting that boot on the car. My Dad laughs at that every time we catch it on TV. They played that well.

Great moment. The guy who co-ordinated the stunt, 2nd unit director, Vic Armstrong, used real traffic cops from the BBC TV Realirty Show The Clampers. These were two of the most hated men in Britain at the time. So it was an in-joke for British viewers.

Even better, was the fact that they had no idea how wet they were about to get, because the stunt team didn't tell them. So their reactions are not acting - they are genuine...

[BrozFan]

The thing I wish is that on the CD music soundtrack that I bought of the movie, it had the music for the skiing scene. What great music this was and they didnt even include it on the track. I couldnt believe it. Why would you leave it out?

Its on the soundtrack I've got.

Track 8: "Ice Bandits"

I agree, great bit of music.

[dee-bee-five]

I think by and large TWINE is Brosnan's best Bond film, although Goldeneye had a better script. Brosnan gives a multi layer performance, expressing Bond's sadness at seeing the woman he cares about in a difficult situation, his physical pain due to the injury, and perseverance, his athleticism in the the various physical action scenes, his quick wits under pressure, and his vulnerability with relation to Elektra. What I enjoyed about that relationship, and also examined much further in Casino Royale, is even in the rare event that Bond falls hard for a woman he does not become all mushy, he remains a strong character, he's just happier.

Robbie Coltrane as Zukovsky was a joy to have back, even though I kind of missed his edge from Goldeneye until his last scene, which was very well done. The torture chair was a good idea to rev up interest in the film late in the game, as well as the subsequent emotional climax between Bond, Elektra and M. It made the following submarine bit well done and edited but lacking the same power, since obviously Apted's strength is drama.

I don't really mind that Denise Richards is miscast (a shame since she is clearly game for anything) since the real Bond woman in the film is Sophie Marceau's Elektra. A stronger other leading lady might have been a distraction from that central conflict. The ultimate Bond woman, Judi Dench, gives her best performance in a Brosnan Bond film and her extra involvement was fine with me.

Q's last scene was well done, the special effect where Bond and M look at the hologram of Renard was pretty neat and I also really liked the office scene at the beginning where Bond gets to show all sides of his personality, flirty, quick witted, intuitive, dangerous and athletic.

In the final scene between Bond and Elektra, I could not help but compare Brosnan to Dalton. If Dalton had played that scene there would have been no doubt that he could shoot her in cold blood. With Brosnan you doubt it at first but then buy it when he does (although despite the fact that she is unarmed she definitely provokes him). The doubt adds suspense to the scene and probably makes it work better.

One of my favorite Bond films and Brosnan's best (though again I liked Goldeneye's script and leading lady better). Had Goldeneye had a better score and had Brosnan been a little more confident in the role at that point, I might stick it above TWINE.

I have to say that I more or less agree with everything you say, although I happen to believe the script for TWINE is better than GoldenEye. It is, for me, definitely Brosnan's best - and one of the better films in the series.

[BrozFan]

I've never quite felt the general hatred for this film until I visited this board.

I have always loved this film and enjoyed it thoroughly. Sure there a moments that don't come off as good as they really ought to be (like John Cleese rolling around the floor of the Q-lab) but I find every Bond film has these, as such I find their 'negativeness' moot.
With the realisation that EVERY Bond film has its flaws, the only thing that really stops me ranking TWINE up alongside GoldenEye (which is my second favourite Bond film) are some less than perfect action scenes...

The Skiing scene was not quite OHMSS, but still good. Some tighter editing and trimming the length would have improved it.

The Caviar Factory is the low-point for me. Totally tacked on, unnecessary and forgettable. The image of Bond running about 2cm in front of the 6-ft buzzsaw was a bit much.

That said, I love the whole Thames chase, its nice to see some iconic British landmarks in a Bond film and has never been done before. The Q-Boat skidding around on the street was a bit OTT but was redeemed for me by the fantasic shot when Bond flips the table when dropping over the resaurant balcony.

Ulike many I enjoy the scenes on the Submarine and don't find them an anti-climax at all. When everyone says Robert Carlyle was sold short on opportunity to shine, I think he really sells the raltionship between himself and Elektra in this when Bond informs her of his death. Also I found a side-ways Submarine a visually interesting set to have some fisticuffs in.

Other great bits in the film:

- Great & different music used in the gunbarrel.

- The Bilbao sequence. Brosnan owns this scene. Witty, menacing, agile, performance topped of with a great stunt.

- Farewell to Q. People can slam Brosnan all they want but this scene is one example for me of how the man can deliver his lines and utilise body language to great effect i.e. that he can act.

Bond:
> referencing R - "He seems well suited for the job."
(Delivered without much enthusiasm, illustrating his reticence at accepting letting go of Q. Also, the one-liner which referencing the inflatable coat suggests that at this point in time, humour is all he can offer at this 'passing the torch' moment i.e. Bond isn't actually convinced about his suitability for the job.)
> talking to Q - "You're not going retiring anytime soon?"....
(Asks this question but does not look at Q. A subtle indicator that he doesn't really want to hear the answer he knows is coming)
> PAUSE.
(Desmond's lack of response foregrounds the sadness of the moment because we now KNOW we won't hear the word 'No' in his response)
> to Q again - ...."Are you?"
(Bond turns round in wide-eyed wonderment and asks this question with what sounds like a genuine fear and sadness on Brosnan's/Bond's part, because like the audience, he cannot comprehend that Llewlyn may not be around anymore)

Then Bond sits there and just listens to Q impart his final words of wisdom. No bickering, bantering, elbow-ribbing, or smirking. Purvis and Wade could have easily over-egged this scene but instead they let the characters have a quiet moment, and to great effect. It succinctly shows the culmination of mutual respect and admiration that always existed in the sometimes terse relationship bewteen Bond and Q. A Wonderful scene and a great send off.


- Meeting Elektra. Given all the complaints about the one-liners Brosnan was given, I thought the one used to end this scene was nothing but fantastic:

Elektra: I'm going to finish building this pipeline and I don't need your help. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to check the survey lines.
Bond: I've always wanted to check the survey lines. (picks up skis)
Elektra: You Don't take 'no' for an answer do you?
Bond: No.
Elektra: I hope you know how to ski then.
Bond: I came prepared for a cold reception.

Funny, witty and well delivered.

- Impromptu spying. It was nice to see Bond making it as he went along when dispathcing Davidov and bluffing his way to meet Renard.

- Pistol-whipping Renard. Really didn't expect this the first time I watched it. A violently, dark moment and Brosnan sells the anger very well. Nice to see Bond not being quite the PC character he is accused of being in the 90s. Also, the line about having distatse for cold-blooded killing is another nice Fleming motif.

- Zukovsky. I preferred him as a villain but he has some great moments when speaking to Bond: 'Can't you just say "hello" like a normal person?'

- The torture chair.

- Killing Elektra. Again, not totally expected because we are not used to seeing Bond being so ruthless, but its nice to see the character being dark and dispathching the villains's comeuppance in a swift, no-nonsese way by shooting this unarmed woman at point-blank range (i.e. not conforming to the traditional Bond formula of the extravangant Bond villain death).

Additionally, "I never miss" was a great line that evoked a great deal of pathos for the charactre and foregrounds (for those getting their knickers in a twist over Bond falling for Elektra) that falling for a girl always comes second to the job. Similarly, it subtley references the pain he does suffer from losing the loves of his live, like Vesper or Tracy, and to some degree Elektra. There is no doubt a dash of bravado in that line because of course he will "miss" them. As such I rather like the way he mourns over Elektra's body. Sure she turned out a right royal but true to Fleming, Bond fell for the girl with a wing down, which Elektra once was. The duplicity of her character is also nicely evocative of Veper's betrayal and in 1999 this was a fresh idea as Casino Royale was 7 years away.
Some can say all this falls flat because they didn't view the relationship as authentic enough to 'invest' in. But whatever. I found it believable that Bond fell for her, probably moreso than Bond falling for Vesper in CR (where their romance felt IMO a little tacked on an not fleshed out enough). Plus, there were fewer moments were Vesper appeared sincerely affectionate. To me it was more obvious she had a 'game-plan' amidst her romance with Bond. But that is a conversation for another thread!

Sorry for the length - I just see A LOT of good stuff in The World Is Not Enough. Its in the top half of my favourite Bond movies for sure.

[JimmyBond]

The thing I wish is that on the CD music soundtrack that I bought of the movie, it had the music for the skiing scene. What great music this was and they didnt even include it on the track. I couldnt believe it. Why would you leave it out?

Its on the soundtrack I've got.

Track 8: "Ice Bandits"

I agree, great bit of music.

He's talking about the music before the Parahawks show up. When just Bond and Elektra are skiing.

[Red Barchetta]

...

- Farewell to Q. People can slam Brosnan all they want but this scene is one example for me of how the man can deliver his lines and utilise body language to great effect i.e. that he can act.

Bond:
> referencing R - "He seems well suited for the job."
(Delivered without much enthusiasm, illustrating his reticence at accepting letting go of Q. Also, the one-liner which referencing the inflatable coat suggests that at this point in time, humour is all he can offer at this 'passing the torch' moment i.e. Bond isn't actually convinced about his suitability for the job.)
> talking to Q - "You're not going retiring anytime soon?"....
(Asks this question but does not look at Q. A subtle indicator that he doesn't really want to hear the answer he knows is coming)
> PAUSE.
(Desmond's lack of response foregrounds the sadness of the moment because we now KNOW we won't hear the word 'No' in his response)
> to Q again - ...."Are you?"
(Bond turns round in wide-eyed wonderment and asks this question with what sounds like a genuine fear and sadness on Brosnan's/Bond's part, because like the audience, he cannot comprehend that Llewlyn may not be around anymore)

Then Bond sits there and just listens to Q impart his final words of wisdom. No bickering, bantering, elbow-ribbing, or smirking. Purvis and Wade could have easily over-egged this scene but instead they let the characters have a quiet moment, and to great effect. It succinctly shows the culmination of mutual respect and admiration that always existed in the sometimes terse relationship bewteen Bond and Q. A Wonderful scene and a great send off.

...

I really feel the same way about this scene with Q. Nicely said!

[BrozFan]

The thing I wish is that on the CD music soundtrack that I bought of the movie, it had the music for the skiing scene. What great music this was and they didnt even include it on the track. I couldnt believe it. Why would you leave it out?

Its on the soundtrack I've got.

Track 8: "Ice Bandits"

I agree, great bit of music.

He's talking about the music before the Parahawks show up. When just Bond and Elektra are skiing.

Whoops. Here's me thinking they were still skiing when the parahawks showed up!

[JimmyBond]

Well it's common sense. He's talking about music that isnt on the soundtrack that occurs when they ski. Since the action cue is on there don't you think it makes a bit of sense that he's talking about the other music?

[BrozFan]

Well it's common sense. He's talking about music that isnt on the soundtrack that occurs when they ski. Since the action cue is on there don't you think it makes a bit of sense that he's talking about the other music?

Its only "common sense" if every moment of the film's soundtrack is etched into my brain with crystal clarity. I think you'll find there is nothing at all common about possessing that level of knowledge of music pertaining to one specific film.

I'm not familiar with the BriBond's in-depth knowledge of the soundtrack, as such they simply could have made and error. I know that when I have bought some soundtracks I has mis-remembered what track number fitted where.

BriBond said "music for the skiing scene" - don't you think it makes a bit of sense that somebody may think of the parahawk music given that the two characters were skiing at the time? Besides, how many people talk about the peaceful ski scene before the Parahawk chase? Really?

[JimmyBond]

Besides, how many people talk about the peaceful ski scene before the Parahawk chase? Really?

I was a regular at many James Bond message boards around the time TWINE came out. Everyone was talking about that "peaceful" music, and the majority of people were upset it wasnt included on the soundtrack.

For someone who claims to be a fan of TWINE you sure can't recall much from it it appears. I havent watched the movie for 3 years and I still know what music he was talking about.

[BrozFan]

Besides, how many people talk about the peaceful ski scene before the Parahawk chase? Really?

I was a regular at many James Bond message boards around the time TWINE came out. Everyone was talking about that "peaceful" music, and the majority of people were upset it wasnt included on the soundtrack.

For someone who claims to be a fan of TWINE you sure can't recall much from it it appears. I havent watched the movie for 3 years and I still know what music he was talking about.

I'm talking present tense, its irrelevant what may or may not have been discussed on some message board 10 years ago. Still, now or then, I'd wager that be it for praise or criticism, the ski scenes involving the Parahawks are discussed more frequently than an otherswise forgettable bit of skiing.

I do not have to justify my fandom to you. I think such a long and detailed post in this thread saying what I like about TWINE is evidence enough for any dullard to recognise I appreciate the film depsite the frequently voiced misgivings of other fans. Or do you disagree?

Claiming I am not a fan of a film because one piece of music jumped to mind over another when they were both in the same scene, is such an impotent argument to make. If you could try and be a little less pedantic next time I'd enjoy arguing with you a little bit more.

And as an FYI, I can very much recall the music from both ski scenes, I never claimed I could not. Admitting I misunderstood which bit of music somebody else was referencing is an err in interpretation. I'm so pleased however that you were so right and I was so wrong. I will crawl into my corner of shame. Pat yourself on the back and accept a gold star. (Cue rounds of applause)

[JimmyBond]

I never questioned your fandom, or your enjoyment of this film. So I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

And the tone of my responses was dictated by the tone of your initial response:

Whoops. Here's me thinking they were still skiing when the parahawks showed up!

Could have done without the sarcasm there.

[BrozFan]

I never questioned your fandom, or your enjoyment of this film. So I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

This is where I'm getting that from:
"For someone who claims to be a fan of TWINE you sure can't recall much from it it appears."
By saying I claim to be a fan, you indicate you are not entirely convinced of my fandom, not that I care whether you are convinced or not. I just thought it was somewhat preposterous to undermine my ability to be a fan of a film because I did not immediately recall one piece of music.

And the tone of my responses was dictated by the tone of your initial response:

Whoops. Here's me thinking they were still skiing when the parahawks showed up!

Could have done without the sarcasm there.

I'm pointing out that the vaguenss of BriBond's comment was enough to make it easy for people to get the two ski scenes mixed up as I did. We weren't all present at the intense internet soundtrack discussions back in 1999 you know.

Ever think perhaps you shouldn't have butted in or adopted a patronising tone? I'd much prefer to be corrected my BriBond seeing as it was his comment I misconstrued.

[JimmyBond]

My initial post was merely pointing out what he was talking about. You're the one that started in with the sarcasm. Would you have responded any differently if my post was from him rather than me?

[Jim]

This thread has become more energetic than the film. Tone it down a little please, chumsters, or I'll make you watch the film again.

Ta.

[DaveBond21]

While we're on the subject of the skiing, I agree that it's a beautiful scene from the moment that Bond and Elektra leap from the helicopter to the very end of the parahawk scene. I love Arnold's music for this scene, very Barry-esque.

And I love the line "See you back at the lodge".

[Tybre]

Bit sad this went poof:

M (referring to King): He's a man of great integrity.
Bond: Who buys stolen reports for 3 million pounds?
M: Well, contrary to what you may believe, 007, the world is not populated by madmen who can hollow out volcanoes, fill them with big breasted women, and threaten the world with nuclear annihilation.
Bond: It only takes one.

Probably one of the few Brosnan era jokes I can actually enjoy. Not really laugh worthy, but I cracked a smile, and talking about the Brosnan era, that's some very high praise indeed.

[Safari Suit]

"Hollowed out volcanoes" is a bit too on the nose and makes the whole thing a bit too cute. If they had said "ridiculously lavish lairs" or something it might have been OK.

[Judo chop]

That's a fun* exchange.

But here's my 2 cent prediction: Brosnan would have played it consistent w/ the rest of his performance in TWINE; ultra-serious, teeth-grinding, dour and huffy-puffy, and it wouldn't have worked. Because it wouldn't have been fun.

[Judo chop]

In an ongiong discussion on another thread, it was posed that Pierce Brosnan doesn't "count" as Bond. I think that's a silly thing to suggest, but a more viable argument might be made that TWINE doesn't "count" as a Bond film by route of the premise that the lead character least resembles the Fundamental James Bond™ here than anywhere else in the Bond canon (and indeed resembles him less than many places outside the Bond canon).

I still think that's a silly thing to suggest. Just less silly.

Back OT. I do enjoy Brosnan's delivery of his "First-things-first" line. Of course then Richards s it up with her attempt at 'tude.