44 replies to this topic

[JimmyBond]

I think most of us can agree that it was a great breath of fresh air that the teaser for CR was considerably shorter than the Brosnan's, and probably one of the shortest teasers for quite a long time. So, simply put, should Bond 22's teaser up the ante and be a bit longer? Or be short and sweet, and leave the big stuff for the film proper?

Personally, I'd like to see it short, but perhaps expanded just a tad to set up a few plotlines for the film, I don't want a teaser that is unrelated to the plot, but I also don't want one that is the plot (TWINE/DAD). If they follow up the end of CR, we'll get something with Bond at White's villa. Or they could buck the trend and have the teaser not even include Bond, the possibilities are endless.

[OkieBond]

I always liked it when, what we saw before the credits, was more of a mini-movie all of it's own. When that part has nothing to do with the main movie, ... well, it's kind of like getting a little bonus Bond movie adventure. That also was one of the things that seemed to set the Bond movies apart from all others.

[DavidSomerset]

I want the teaser like this:

James Bond: Where is he? I shan't ask you politely next time. Where is Mr. Black?
Mr. White: Ca-Ca-Cairo.

Edited by DavidSomerset, 26 January 2007 - 04:52 AM.

[JimmyBond]

I always liked it when, what we saw before the credits, was more of a mini-movie all of it's own. When that part has nothing to do with the main movie, ... well, it's kind of like getting a little bonus Bond movie adventure. That also was one of the things that seemed to set the Bond movies apart from all others.

Only if they recast the role will that make sense

[sharpshooter]

I would like it to be short, but a just a bit longer than the CR one.

My ideal opening would be a recap of White crawling up the steps and Bond's utterance. Then have White's men arrive and Bond forcing to defend with the silenced machine gun. White escapes and blows up the villa.

Would be a very good picturesque opening at Lake Como, could have some water action, helicopter (maybe the one they wanted to use in CR but will use for 22) dropping of men and Bond commandering it. Many ideas.

[MarcAngeDraco]

I'd prefer it to be just a bit longer than CR's PTS...

[Mister Asterix]

[mra]I don

[Bondian]

Seeing as Casino Royale was quite groundbreaking, maybe EON could follow it up by setting the demise of the main Villain in the PTS.

Okay. Who's been recently watching too many 70's cop shows.

[dodge]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='693344' date='26 January 2007 - 14:18'][mra]I don

[Qwerty]

I don't really have a preference. Whatever works best for the film.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

I would like it to be short, but a just a bit longer than the CR one.

My ideal opening would be a recap of White crawling up the steps and Bond's utterance. Then have White's men arrive and Bond forcing to defend with the silenced machine gun. White escapes and blows up the villa.

I like it. It would also fit in with the rumour that they filmed the PTS during Casino Royale shooting.

[Turn]

Short and sweet is fine if it gets the movie off in the right way. Something like TWINE tired me out before the credits. Plus we'll get the excitement of getting Craig's first official gunbarrel.

[HildebrandRarity]

I don't really have a preference. Whatever works best for the film.

Touche'

They seem to end up working well enough whatever the lenghth. TWINE was changed with Renard being brought in mid-movie to make way for the 15 min pts, for instance. It seemed to work. Ditto with the short CR.

[JimmyBond]

If it has to be one or the other, then I like it short and sweet. But, personally, I want them to continue shaking things up. It might even be cool if they did another short PTS, then found some way to continue the narrative through the credits. Don't know how, but most things can be done. And thais would be different.

What about if White's men show up, and Bond gets into a shoot out with them. When he dispatchs the men. he finds White to be gone. We segue into the credits, which show us Bond tracking White. They could borrow a bit from Indiana Jones and show a map with a line to represent all the places Bond has gone. Occasionally they can sprinkle that with some nude woman holding globes that when zoomed into, show us Craig doing something or another.

Different? Sure it is, but after two MTS that completely shook up the formula in a row. I think it's safe to say it wouldnt be too different

[Odd Jobbies]

They seem to end up working well enough whatever the lenghth. TWINE was changed with Renard being brought in mid-movie to make way for the 15 min pts, for instance. It seemed to work. Ditto with the short CR.

Hiderbrand, could you elaborate on what was originally intended for Renard in TWINE please (just out of interest). I thought the great potentual for his character was terribly squandered.
God knows how a terrorist who can't feel pain can become as menacing as a moody schoolboy, but Eon somehow managed it! I certainly don't put the blame the shoulders of Trainspotting's the terrifying Begby!

As for the PTS, i agree that duration shouldn't be a rule, but depends upon the script.

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 27 January 2007 - 10:29 AM.

[JimmyBond]

They seem to end up working well enough whatever the lenghth. TWINE was changed with Renard being brought in mid-movie to make way for the 15 min pts, for instance. It seemed to work. Ditto with the short CR.

Hiderbrand, could you elaborate on what was originally intended for Renard in TWINE please (just out of interest).

After Bond jumps out the window, the film would then cut to the sniper rifle and we'd see Renard standing behind it. The Cigar girl would walk in and there was some dialogue about Bond and how it was up to him now (in reference to delivering the bomb). This scene would lead us into the main title sequence, then the film would pick up with Bond back in England and go from there.

The scene in question was cut out becuase the producers wanted Renard to have a better entrance into the film, and also because they wanted a bigger action sequence to open the film than just Bond jumping out the window.

[DamnCoffee]

Its on the TWINE UE

To stay on topic, i'd like the Bond 22 PTS to be around 5 mins - tops. enough for a confrontation and escape (lets hope he's not captured by Whites guards and for tortured a year (DAD))

[Scottlee]

As long as we get the traditional "gunbarrel>action segment>titles" order back, I'm not too bothered whether it's long or short. Having said that, I'm intrigued with the idea of a pre-title that has nothing to do with the main plot, if only because we haven't had one since TLD.

Edit - With this new era seeming to want to focus on more complex, intelligent stories, I'm not sure if the writers could afford to lose those opening 15 minutes to en entirely irrelevent sequence, though.

[OkieBond]

I'm glad to see that Scottlee supports my idea of "a pre-title that has nothing to do with the main plot" ...

[DaveBond21]

I would like to see the PTS be a little longer, and carry on from the end of CR. But I think that would mean they would have already filmed it, or at least part of it.

[Professor Dent]

As long as we get the traditional "gunbarrel>action segment>titles" order back, I'm not too bothered whether it's long or short. Having said that, I'm intrigued with the idea of a pre-title that has nothing to do with the main plot, if only because we haven't had one since TLD

I'd like to get back to the "traditional" format as well. I'd like to see a PTS that is in the 5-8 minute range. Enough to let Bond mix it up & then get back to some exotic place with a pretty lady & a nice dry martini.

[MR. BOND 93]

I'd make the PTS short, but loyal to the film's main story line. Like maybe start out with the back of the villain's head (Vesper's boyfriend) and never show his face... but like be him telling his evil plan with his evil new organization. Not sure how Bond would fit in all that... but it'd still make some great foreshadowing.

But I also still like the idea of the PTS picking up EXACTLY where CR left off.

Edited by MR. BOND 93, 29 January 2007 - 11:30 PM.

[Gobi-1]

I want to see the traditional gunbarrel open up to the final scene of CR at Mr. White's villa. Scene plays exactly the same with "Bond, James Bond." and continuing from there. The five minute marks sounds about right for me.

[tdalton]

I want to see the traditional gunbarrel open up to the final scene of CR at Mr. White's villa. Scene plays exactly the same with "Bond, James Bond." and continuing from there. The five minute marks sounds about right for me.

I'd like to see that as well. I also agree that 5 minutes is about the right length for the next PTS, but as long as it's not as lengthy as the ones during the Brosnan Era, then it doesn't matter too much.

[Gobi-1]

A teaser along the lines of From Russia With Love or Thunderball would be great. Although minus the jetpack.

[DaveBond21]

I am sure everyone will agree when I say it's high time that there were some monkeys in the PTS again.

[Odd Jobbies]

They seem to end up working well enough whatever the lenghth. TWINE was changed with Renard being brought in mid-movie to make way for the 15 min pts, for instance. It seemed to work. Ditto with the short CR.

Hiderbrand, could you elaborate on what was originally intended for Renard in TWINE please (just out of interest).

After Bond jumps out the window, the film would then cut to the sniper rifle and we'd see Renard standing behind it. The Cigar girl would walk in and there was some dialogue about Bond and how it was up to him now (in reference to delivering the bomb). This scene would lead us into the main title sequence, then the film would pick up with Bond back in England and go from there.

The scene in question was cut out becuase the producers wanted Renard to have a better entrance into the film, and also because they wanted a bigger action sequence to open the film than just Bond jumping out the window.

Thanks for that info on TWINE's PTS - I love hearing about deleted scenes. It made sense to cut this scene to give Renard a better entrance; not that this improved his character, which was miss-conceived:
Set up in the excellent 'holographic head' briefing by M at Eileen Dunn castle as an invincible enemy who cannot feel pain and then portrayed by Carlyle and the script as a wimpy sulker with an adolescent crush on Electra which made him far too soft - far less menacing!
Yes Purvis & Wade, its a very poignant idea that although he can't feel physical pain, he can still feel emotional pain, which is perhaps even increased, like a blind man who's hearing is that much more sensitive. Problem is that I don't know if that's what the writer's intended or if I just brought that idea to the table; perhaps something like my 'blind man' metaphor needed to be said to tell the audience what this story is intending to focus on, but as it was, it simply lacked real focus. It tried to pull the trick that the 'real' villian was Electra all along... oh, and renard too...!!! It should've been clearer that the real villian is always Renard - that he's bloody scary! Electra is a vengful character whose game with Renard ultametly makes him far more dangerous than he started out - he developed from physically damaged to the point of invulnerability to emotionally damaged to the point of suicidal; losing his capacity for physical sensation, all he has to feel with are his emotions and this is betrayed by Electra which puts him on the warpath. Thus Renard should have killed Electra, and Bond kill him like an animal put out of its missery. Bond's murder of Electra, though a great Brosnan moment, was at the expense of the movie - it made Bond the scary killer as we entered the climax and so we felt less jeopardy for him. They wanted 2 villians in TWINE, but 2 bad guys can sometimes add up to less than 1.

A better script would have made its poignant intentions that much clearer. It could have been more explicitly stated that Renard's symptomaticly high emotional state was a vulnerability, and so this would be MI6's angle of attack, using Electra as the bate (not realizing that Electra was already playing this same game upon MI6). As it was this great thought flew out the window with the next 'sex'n comedy' scene and was never really dwelled upon by Bond. Fleming's character would certainly had been in conflict over using Electra like this - imaging how an enemy might use Bond's own emotional wounds against him. I guess the filmmakers did there best in the commercially confined circumstances (glad they've got their act together in CR).

So, Instead of a damaged Renard, who's only vulnerability (his excentuated emotional state) is a dark reflection of what might become of Bond if he survives in his profession too long, you just get soppy, broody Rob losing his menace over Electra. The vulnerability (even if it had been written with more elegance and clarity) should also have been balanced with more cruelty - a few more scenes that Carlyle 'owned' - but that was Scarce.

Not really Carlyle's fault, just an unbalanced script that didn't ultimately know what it wanted to be: Romantic-melodrama or action-adventure! It admirably tried to combine them both, but instead just jumped back and fourth from one genre to the other (Apted in control of the former and Vic Armstrong in control of the latter).
Having said all that I still left the cinema with a big grin on my face at having had a new fix of my childhood hero, with, back then, only a small voice in the back of my skull whispering that there was something wrong...

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 08 February 2007 - 01:25 PM.

[00Twelve]

Bring on the brief PTS! I liked the TWINE PTS, but it was a short film.

[DaveBond21]

Yes, I loved the TWINE boat chase, but maybe it should have been in the main part of the movie. Or even at the end.

[Nikos]

Quite right DaveBond21. The TWINE PTS was overloaded and as impressive as the Thames chase was, it was a structural mistake and it belonged to the middle of the film.

Personally I prefer a small scale but poignant one, like GF, FRWL or YOLT.