49 replies to this topic

[dinovelvet]

What exactly is the point of this scene? Bond goes to his car, opens the envelope from M, flips through some papers and then says "I love you too, M". What provokes him to say that? If anything could be cut from CR, its this scene, as I don't see what it adds to the narrative at all.

[marktmurphy]

Cut the scene? So you want his car, his gun and the defibrilator to just magically appear later in the film?

[Howland]

What exactly is the point of this scene? Bond goes to his car, opens the envelope from M, flips through some papers and then says "I love you too, M". What provokes him to say that? If anything could be cut from CR, its this scene, as I don't see what it adds to the narrative at all.

Well, if my boss would lend me an Aston Martin DBS, I think I would probably marry him

[David Schofield]

After a single event - the MIA saving of the Skyfleet plane - M goes from, basically, thinking Bond is a thicko thug to providing him with an Aston Martin DBS for his cover. Oh, and a very large gun.

I'd say that would warrant Bond's confirming his love for her, too.

[marktmurphy]

What exactly is the point of this scene? Bond goes to his car, opens the envelope from M, flips through some papers and then says "I love you too, M". What provokes him to say that?

Well, pretty obviously she's written a terse, probably brief and not very friendly note instructing him of what he's received. It's character stuff. I really don't understand your problem with this.

[Dell Deaton]

What exactly is the point of this scene? Bond goes to his car, opens the envelope from M, flips through some papers and then says "I love you too, M". What provokes him to say that? If anything could be cut from CR, its this scene, as I don't see what it adds to the narrative at all.

In addition to seeing this along the lines of other replies here before mine, it also seemed to me that this was meant to provide insight to the audience. Sort of like a bickering married couple: "Yeah, you've seen the tough exchanges, but they were about business; this is how they really feel about one another."

Personally, I not only wouldn't have thought to cut it, but actually remember it was one of my favorite moments in Casino Royale.

[marktmurphy]

In addition to seeing this along the lines of other replies here before mine, it also seemed to me that this was meant to provide insight to the audience. Sort of like a bickering married couple: "Yeah, you've seen the tough exchanges, but they were about business; this is how they really feel about one another."

You know he's being sarcastic when he says it?

[Dell Deaton]

In addition to seeing this along the lines of other replies here before mine, it also seemed to me that this was meant to provide insight to the audience. Sort of like a bickering married couple: "Yeah, you've seen the tough exchanges, but they were about business; this is how they really feel about one another."

You know he's being sarcastic when he says it?

Bond-- sarcastic?

The thought had never crossed my mind.

Seriously: No, I didn't hear it that way. I took it at face value, no sarcasm.

[marktmurphy]

Seriously: No, I didn't hear it that way. I took it at face value, no sarcasm.

Well I'm pretty sure we're supposed to take it that she's been quite impersonal in the note, probably warning him not to damage anything and not to cock anything up, and his reply is the usual sarcastic 'I love you too' people say in those situations.

Do you honestly think she said 'I love you James' in the note?

[Icephoenix]

I agree that Bond's comment "I love you too, M" was a sarcastic reply (from what was obviously a stern note from M), but still indicated his newborn respect for her. Like Dell said, like a bickering married couple who deep down hold each other in high regard.

[Dell Deaton]

Seriously: No, I didn't hear it that way. I took it at face value, no sarcasm.

Well I'm pretty sure we're supposed to take it that she's been quite impersonal in the note, probably warning him not to damage anything and not to cock anything up, and his reply is the usual sarcastic 'I love you too' people say in those situations.

Do you honestly think she said 'I love you James' in the note?

No. I didn't mean to imply that she said "I love you" or anything like that in her note. Rather, what I was more thinking is along the lines of what she did, which Bond took as an "expression" of love. Mind you, that interpretation doesn't even necessarily require that that was her intent.

For example, imagine a matter-of-fact line reading, "here are the keys to your car." If I was a new Double-0, in my thirties, wearing off-the-shelf suits, and most recently driving a Ford car, I can easily see the first words coming to my mind upon receipt of this vehicle being, "I love you, too!" And it's close enough to the Bond character I saw in this film to satisfy me.

Mind you, while it was a line significant enough to have stood out to me here, I'm not married to any particular interpretation. I felt it was appropriate and good to include in the film. And, as I've said, this is how I interpreted it.

But you may well be right in your take on it. In any case, you present a good argument and it's worth thinking about.

Thanks.

[Mister Asterix]

Seriously: No, I didn't hear it that way. I took it at face value, no sarcasm.

Well I'm pretty sure we're supposed to take it that she's been quite impersonal in the note, probably warning him not to damage anything and not to cock anything up, and his reply is the usual sarcastic 'I love you too' people say in those situations.

Do you honestly think she said 'I love you James' in the note?

[mra]Well, why I completely agree with you on what the note said, but I didn

[Dell Deaton]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='688689' date='17 January 2007 - 09:25'][quote name='marktmurphy' post='688654' date='17 January 2007 - 07:19'][quote name='Dell Deaton' post='688642' date='17 January 2007 - 12:20']Seriously: No, I didn't hear it that way. I took it at face value, no sarcasm.[/quote]

Well I'm pretty sure we're supposed to take it that she's been quite impersonal in the note, probably warning him not to damage anything and not to cock anything up, and his reply is the usual sarcastic 'I love you too' people say in those situations.

Do you honestly think she said 'I love you James' in the note?
[/quote]

[mra]Well, why I completely agree with you on what the note said, but I didn

[bond_girl_double07]

I loved this line! I love the transition between Bond's suave cover at the Hotel Splendid to his "back to business" supply check in the car, and I love that there's a degree of affection between Bond and M even early in their interactions with one another..

This was honestly the absolute first moment since Dench took over that I can see anything positive about the gender transition of this character.. Craig's delivery is dead-on in this scene, and I think the mix of sarcasm (just a little) and real affection was perfect for where Bond and M are at this point in their understanding of each other..

Plus it's just sweet, come on! M, I think, is departing from her former hard-assed demeanor with Bond in the letter, and showing that she really does trust him in this mission.. it's sweet that he responds with affection for her

[marktmurphy]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='688689' date='17 January 2007 - 14:25'][quote name='marktmurphy' post='688654' date='17 January 2007 - 07:19'][quote name='Dell Deaton' post='688642' date='17 January 2007 - 12:20']Seriously: No, I didn't hear it that way. I took it at face value, no sarcasm.[/quote]

Well I'm pretty sure we're supposed to take it that she's been quite impersonal in the note, probably warning him not to damage anything and not to cock anything up, and his reply is the usual sarcastic 'I love you too' people say in those situations.

Do you honestly think she said 'I love you James' in the note?
[/quote]

[mra]Well, why I completely agree with you on what the note said, but I didn

[bond_girl_double07]

Ooooor maybe he really loves her.. the Bond in the novels loved the male M like a father (or at the very least thought of him as a father figure - which denotes a great deal of affection).. so maybe Craig-Movie Bond loves female M like a mother..

Just saying

I think it'll be really interesting to see what they do with this relationship in future films.. Has anybody read "Colonel Sun"? Imagine a film version of that novel with a female M.. I think the dynamic would be really amazing.

[Dell Deaton]

[quote name='marktmurphy' post='688728' date='17 January 2007 - 10:13'][quote name='Mister Asterix' post='688689' date='17 January 2007 - 14:25'][quote name='marktmurphy' post='688654' date='17 January 2007 - 07:19'][quote name='Dell Deaton' post='688642' date='17 January 2007 - 12:20']Seriously: No, I didn't hear it that way. I took it at face value, no sarcasm.[/quote]

Well I'm pretty sure we're supposed to take it that she's been quite impersonal in the note, probably warning him not to damage anything and not to cock anything up, and his reply is the usual sarcastic 'I love you too' people say in those situations.

Do you honestly think she said 'I love you James' in the note?
[/quote]

[mra]Well, why I completely agree with you on what the note said, but I didn

[Mister Asterix]

But they would to being told off, and Bond has never shown any particular regard for expensive things even though he obviously enjoys them- certainly gratitude for a new car to blat around in is not something he usually shows. I don't think it ever really occurs to him that many people don't have Aston Martins!
He's being sarky- he's got a respect for M at this point and isn't saying that he hates her, he's just amused by her being so grouchy with him.

[mra]Perhaps we

[DamnCoffee]

Maybe M wrote something sarcastic ie.. "Bring it back in one piece" or something like that, and Bond been sarcastic back to her, hence the line "I love you too M"

[bond_girl_double07]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='688743' date='17 January 2007 - 10:46'][mra]Interesting take, DD.
Of course, the Bentley was his and the Aston was the SIS

[Dell Deaton]

So the bottom line here is that we've gotta get our hands on that letter!

[bond_girl_double07]

So the bottom line here is that we've gotta get our hands on that letter!

Too bad Craig doesn't wear glasses.. we could pull a CSI-style "let me take this horribly grainy picture and blow it up to be perfectly clear" move and get the words off off the reflection in the lense

[Mister Asterix]

So the bottom line here is that we've gotta get our hands on that letter!

Too bad Craig doesn't wear glasses.. we could pull a CSI-style "let me take this horribly grainy picture and blow it up to be perfectly clear" move and get the words off off the reflection in the lense

[mra]The one thing that did bug me about the letter is it seems to have a MI6 logo at the top. I

[Dell Deaton]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='688776' date='17 January 2007 - 11:43'][quote name='bond_girl_double07' post='688764' date='17 January 2007 - 10:23'][quote name='Dell Deaton' post='688761' date='17 January 2007 - 11:14']So the bottom line here is that we've gotta get our hands on that letter!

[/quote]

Too bad Craig doesn't wear glasses.. we could pull a CSI-style "let me take this horribly grainy picture and blow it up to be perfectly clear" move and get the words off off the reflection in the lense
[/quote]

[mra]The one thing that did bug me about the letter is it seems to have a MI6 logo at the top. I

[Mister Asterix]

[quote name='Dell Deaton' post='688818' date='17 January 2007 - 11:33']My personal guess would be that the letter he read in the Aston Martin would have been consistent with the letter Bond read to Vesper on their mission cover story and credentials. But that's only a guess.



The picture here is part of an official release of images Omega SA did in conjunction with its "James Bond Exhibition at La Cit

[Four Aces]

Well I'm pretty sure we're supposed to take it that she's been quite impersonal in the note, probably warning him not to damage anything and not to cock anything up, and his reply is the usual sarcastic 'I love you too' people say in those situations...

I think Bond was being sarcastic. M probably left him a nasty note with words to the effect that the car is not his, and he had better not mess it up. To me M represents the Beeotch Boss, risen to her rank due to political correctness, and resentful of Bond due to his maleness, and to her own lack of ability to do things like chase a "gymnast" thru a construction site, or otherwise close with and destroy the enemy mano-a-mano, like a man can.

[bond_girl_double07]

risen to her rank due to political correctness, and resentful of Bond due to his maleness,

In all the previous films with Dench, I agree.. but not this one. I don't think it matters to this M at all whether Bond is a male.. she's clearly under control and he's far from being any sort of threat to her power (she really could have fed him to the powers that be and she could always do it again)..

soooooo I still think she must have expressed some manner of either trust or concern (doubtlessly piled deep within orders and warnings about his conduct and the importance of the mission) and Bond responded with the line

[Dell Deaton]

Well I'm pretty sure we're supposed to take it that she's been quite impersonal in the note, probably warning him not to damage anything and not to cock anything up, and his reply is the usual sarcastic 'I love you too' people say in those situations...

I think Bond was being sarcastic. M probably left him a nasty note with words to the effect that the car is not his, and he had better not mess it up. To me M represents the Beeotch Boss, risen to her rank due to political correctness, and resentful of Bond due to his maleness, and to her own lack of ability to do things like chase a "gymnast" thru a construction site, or otherwise close with and destroy the enemy mano-a-mano, like a man can.

Oh, my-- now it's on to psychological profiles. Wonderful!

Before getting into this, however, I guess we have "the GoldenEye problem," in that she was "the new 'M'" in that one, w/ James Bond's tenure clearly pre-dating hers. Yet in Casino Royale, she is the one who promoted him "too early." Kind of ironic that it was the same director who helmed both these points of view, eh?

"The GoldenEye 'M'" (hereinafter to be referred to as "GEM") seems very much like what you suggest here. "Bean counter." On the other hand, during her opening diatribe after the closed door meeting, where she's walking down the hall, "the Casino Royale 'M'" (hereinafter to be referred to as "C-RoyaM") seemed to have been "old school," implying that she'd come up through that climb by merit and experience. Indeed, the Bond / GEM and Bond/C-RoyaM roles seem to be reversed in many respects in terms of who seems tied to the past and who is pressing things forward.

Beyond that, all I've got is fantasy. And if I indulge myself too much in suggesting C-RoyaM may, herself, have been a Double-0 (a'la Demi Moore in the Charlie's Angels movie), I might risk getting myself into trouble here. Still, wouldn't that be consistent w/ what may have been the case w/ the Bernard Lee-M, based on some references on the tape in From Russia with Love?

Thanks for indulging me just a bit here....

[bond_girl_double07]

Well I'm pretty sure we're supposed to take it that she's been quite impersonal in the note, probably warning him not to damage anything and not to cock anything up, and his reply is the usual sarcastic 'I love you too' people say in those situations...

I think Bond was being sarcastic. M probably left him a nasty note with words to the effect that the car is not his, and he had better not mess it up. To me M represents the Beeotch Boss, risen to her rank due to political correctness, and resentful of Bond due to his maleness, and to her own lack of ability to do things like chase a "gymnast" thru a construction site, or otherwise close with and destroy the enemy mano-a-mano, like a man can.

Oh, my-- now it's on to psychological profiles. Wonderful!

Before getting into this, however, I guess we have "the GoldenEye problem," in that she was "the new 'M'" in that one, w/ James Bond's tenure clearly pre-dating hers. Yet in Casino Royale, she is the one who promoted him "too early." Kind of ironic that it was the same director who helmed both these points of view, eh?

"The GoldenEye 'M'" (hereinafter to be referred to as "GEM") seems very much like what you suggest here. "Bean counter." On the other hand, during her opening diatribe after the closed door meeting, where she's walking down the hall, "the Casino Royale 'M'" (hereinafter to be referred to as "C-RoyaM") seemed to have been "old school," implying that she'd come up through that climb by merit and experience. Indeed, the Bond / GEM and Bond/C-RoyaM roles seem to be reversed in many respects in terms of who seems tied to the past and who is pressing things forward.

Beyond that, all I've got is fantasy. And if I indulge myself too much in suggesting C-RoyaM may, herself, have been a Double-0 (a'la Demi Moore in the Charlie's Angels movie), I might risk getting myself into trouble here. Still, wouldn't that be consistent w/ what may have been the case w/ the Bernard Lee-M, based on some references on the tape in From Russia with Love?

Thanks for indulging me just a bit here....

Exactly and exactly! The Casino Royale M (or CM as I'm going to call her - as your C-RoyaM is WAAY to long hehe) is very akin to the Bernard Lee model (the whole cold war rant, the strength, the closer relationship with Bond, taking Bond's side, etc) so it seems very possible to me that she'd come up through the ranks in the same way that bond is now advancing.. I think the dynamic of the two characters is back where the novels set it (M gets angry but ultimately trusts Bond and Bond respects and obeys M), and I'm very pleased that the directors made the decision to depart from the GE model..

Now all we have to deal with is the continuity problem (M promotes Bond to 00 status in CR, but they're first introduced in GE when Bond is already clearly a 00)..

[Four Aces]

risen to her rank due to political correctness, and resentful of Bond due to his maleness,

In all the previous films with Dench, I agree.. but not this one. I don't think it matters to this M at all whether Bond is a male.. she's clearly under control and he's far from being any sort of threat to her power (she really could have fed him to the powers that be and she could always do it again)..

soooooo I still think she must have expressed some manner of either trust or concern (doubtlessly piled deep within orders and warnings about his conduct and the importance of the mission) and Bond responded with the line

Well I'm pretty sure we're supposed to take it that she's been quite impersonal in the note, probably warning him not to damage anything and not to cock anything up, and his reply is the usual sarcastic 'I love you too' people say in those situations...

I think Bond was being sarcastic. M probably left him a nasty note with words to the effect that the car is not his, and he had better not mess it up. To me M represents the Beeotch Boss, risen to her rank due to political correctness, and resentful of Bond due to his maleness, and to her own lack of ability to do things like chase a "gymnast" thru a construction site, or otherwise close with and destroy the enemy mano-a-mano, like a man can.

Oh, my-- now it's on to psychological profiles. Wonderful!

Before getting into this, however, I guess we have "the GoldenEye problem," in that she was "the new 'M'" in that one, w/ James Bond's tenure clearly pre-dating hers. Yet in Casino Royale, she is the one who promoted him "too early." Kind of ironic that it was the same director who helmed both these points of view, eh?

"The GoldenEye 'M'" (hereinafter to be referred to as "GEM") seems very much like what you suggest here. "Bean counter." On the other hand, during her opening diatribe after the closed door meeting, where she's walking down the hall, "the Casino Royale 'M'" (hereinafter to be referred to as "C-RoyaM") seemed to have been "old school," implying that she'd come up through that climb by merit and experience. Indeed, the Bond / GEM and Bond/C-RoyaM roles seem to be reversed in many respects in terms of who seems tied to the past and who is pressing things forward.

Beyond that, all I've got is fantasy. And if I indulge myself too much in suggesting C-RoyaM may, herself, have been a Double-0 (a'la Demi Moore in the Charlie's Angels movie), I might risk getting myself into trouble here. Still, wouldn't that be consistent w/ what may have been the case w/ the Bernard Lee-M, based on some references on the tape in From Russia with Love?

Thanks for indulging me just a bit here....

You are both correct. I am clearly jaded by the GEM, but no apologies. I also don't like how the smoking was banned, another PC issue (I am not a smoker, though I do enjoy an occasional cigar and have a nice humidor with a few Habanos in it).

It would be interesting if there were any female 00's, IRL or fiction.