66 replies to this topic

[HildebrandRarity]

I think there's an interesting, yet fun book here and one as a writer and Bond fan I might look into one day. Not that any responses to this thread will be included. I'm just throwing Connery's blue towelling all-in-one GOLDFINGER swimsuit out onto the cBn waters and seeing if it floats.... (and there's nothing straight about 'that look', believe me!!).

I think Bond's world is a Sensualist's world and there is a great deal of psycho-sexual subtext throughout the original novels and the Eon series.

You can write a book about it with chapters devoted to the gay aspects of it just as you could devote chapters to the asexual nature of some of the villians.

Obviously the Rosa Clebbs and Pussy Galores and Scaramangas from Fleming and the DAF troupe along with Octopussy and her girls, May Day, Koskov, Zenia Onnatop, Boris, Verity/Mirander/Graves/Zao and Le Chiffre from latter day Eon all contribute to the theory.

But does being a sensualist in which you appreciate fine tailoring, wine and champagne, design, beautiful cars and firm/fit bodies immediately mean one is *gay*? I appreciate it all and it certainly does not make me gay.

[Zorin Industries]

I think a gay view of James Bond is that one would want to . Is there really anything else ?

Isn't that what most fan-boy anoraks on this site want to do? You asked for that.... ;o)

[Zorin Industries]

[quote name='mccartney007' post='682762' date='7 January 2007 - 02:46'][quote name='Zorin Industries' post='682591' date='6 January 2007 - 12:52'][quote name='mccartney007' post='682557' date='6 January 2007 - 18:52']I am sure there is a whole new gay audience of "James Bond fans" simply because of Danny Craig, just as there was a whole heap of women who suddenly became "James Bond fans" once Pierce Brosnan signed on to the role.[/quote]

Well it's this new audience for Craig I want to hear from. Good point about Brosnan. He was very much the housewives favourite and gay fans tend to steer well clear from anything your Mum might like. Brosnan and indeed all the Bond actors pre-Craig are like family members. You can't p

[Zorin Industries]

Would the [insert community of choice] community view Bond films any differently than the mainstream?

I tend to think Bond films become camp in retrospect. At the time of, er, release (sorry), they tend to be viewed as modern and of their day.

Is Casino Royale camp? Not for my reading but looking at this thread, I can see the stuff in there. I know Mad Mikkelson has stated that he wanted to put some ambiguity in the torture scene but it is more painful than sexual. Even in the novel. But I guess the basic premise has connotations.

I know gay Bond fans, female Bond fans, various ethnic Bond fans and international Bond fans and they all rarely bring their "community" into the picture. Even just Fan Bond Fans can rarely agree on what and who their Bond is. While interesting, I tend to think questions like this are always a bit reductive.

"A bit reductive"...? With the greatest of respect Ace, I threw this notion into the cBn pot as I am tired of the jaded and extremely "reductive" threads knocking about here debating such far-reaching topics such as how red the colour of the gunbarrel blood CASINO ROYALE should be, how exactly a very competent actor such as Daniel Craig should really utter THAT closing line and whether VESPER has sugar or sweeteners on her cereal in the Hotel Splendide breakast bar!

I know it's all horses for courses and this forum and this website is still the most astute, varied and informed watering hole when it comes to all things 007. I am not trying to be reductive. This topic is not something I have had sleepless nights over. It is just something I would like to investigate with folk - including you - if they want to.

For a gay audience, the torture scene in CASINO ROYALE is both "painful" AND "sexual". That is because Daniel Craig is extremely sexual (in a way that Connery was in the 1960's - well, my Mum thought so...!). And Craig's also butt naked. That has never been seen before in Bond. Neither has an actor who is so physically toned (too much probably) and sexually predatory (itself a major gay trait and one that BOND has thrived on for decades). It is this new sexuality in Bond that I want to discuss and throw out there.

As regards your opening statement on this post ("Would the [insert community of choice] community view Bond films any differently than the mainstream?"), I would like to suggest - for a crude, simplistic counterpoint - that black audiences in the 1970's looked very differently at the franchise.

I hope this isn't meant to sound like an attack, Ace. Far from it. I agree with you that Bond shouldn't be cut apart and ruined by any discussion of this nature. Though I would like to point out that the "mainstream" does not exist in the way that "the general audience" does not.

[Zorin Industries]

I tend to think Bond films become camp in retrospect. At the time of, er, release (sorry), they tend to be viewed as modern and of their day.

No- that would be kitsch- something which is entertainingly out of date. Camp is how you play something, and the Bond films have always been camp, right from their day of release thanks to the general wink-at-the-audience aspects of them.

Spot on marktmurphy. There is a vast BLOFELD sized volcanic crater in between "camp", "kitsch" and "gay". I've probably ushered the debate in the wrong angle. AUSTIN POWERS is not camp. It's kitsch.

"Camp" and its definition always divides folk. Bond has its camp elements. DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER is the most camp Bond film going. Though Tom Manciewicz could be responsible for that. He introduced a simiiiar sensibility to SUPERMAN and indeed THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN. Not that either of those great screenplays of his are "gay".

[Zorin Industries]

I think there's an interesting, yet fun book here and one as a writer and Bond fan I might look into one day. Not that any responses to this thread will be included. I'm just throwing Connery's blue towelling all-in-one GOLDFINGER swimsuit out onto the cBn waters and seeing if it floats.... (and there's nothing straight about 'that look', believe me!!).

I think Bond's world is a Sensualist's world and there is a great deal of psycho-sexual subtext throughout the original novels and the Eon series.

You can write a book about it with chapters devoted to the gay aspects of it just as you could devote chapters to the asexual nature of some of the villians.

Obviously the Rosa Clebbs and Pussy Galores and Scaramangas from Fleming and the DAF troupe along with Octopussy and her girls, May Day, Koskov, Zenia Onnatop, Boris, Verity/Mirander/Graves/Zao and Le Chiffre from latter day Eon all contribute to the theory.

But does being a sensualist in which you appreciate fine tailoring, wine and champagne, design, beautiful cars and firm/fit bodies immediately mean one is *gay*? I appreciate it all and it certainly does not make me gay.

I am not saying being a "sensualist" (you might want to change that tone of phrase in a discussion of gay...!) means you're not straight. The appreciation of that finer style of living embodied in the Bond films is just something that is more attuned to a gay sensibility (though not everyone's - not even sure it's mine)

Incidentally, why do so many straight men have a problem with facets of their very existence mirroring those of the gayers...?! Gay man drive fast cars you know...

But thanks for the response.

[Zorin Industries]

I think there's an interesting, yet fun book here and one as a writer and Bond fan I might look into one day. Not that any responses to this thread will be included. I'm just throwing Connery's blue towelling all-in-one GOLDFINGER swimsuit out onto the cBn waters and seeing if it floats.... (and there's nothing straight about 'that look', believe me!!).

I think Bond's world is a Sensualist's world and there is a great deal of psycho-sexual subtext throughout the original novels and the Eon series.

You can write a book about it with chapters devoted to the gay aspects of it just as you could devote chapters to the asexual nature of some of the villians.

Obviously the Rosa Clebbs and Pussy Galores and Scaramangas from Fleming and the DAF troupe along with Octopussy and her girls, May Day, Koskov, Zenia Onnatop, Boris, Verity/Mirander/Graves/Zao and Le Chiffre from latter day Eon all contribute to the theory.

But does being a sensualist in which you appreciate fine tailoring, wine and champagne, design, beautiful cars and firm/fit bodies immediately mean one is *gay*? I appreciate it all and it certainly does not make me gay.

I am not saying being a "sensualist" (you might want to change that tone of phrase in a discussion of gay...!) means you're not straight. The appreciation of that finer style of living embodied in the Bond films is just something that is more attuned to a gay sensibility (though not everyone's - not even sure it's mine)

Incidentally, why do so many straight men have a problem with facets of their very existence mirroring those of the gayers...?! Gay men drive fast cars you know...

But thanks for the response.

[HildebrandRarity]

It seems Eon will not let more than one or two films go by without looking at the other end of the track.

Le Chiffre and Daniel Craig in the latest. Verity and Miranda @ Blades as well as potentially Gustav and Zao in the ice palace in the previous one.

Then it looks like Stamper may have that going about him...sort of boy/man love thing with Dr Kaufmann...and if not then the sexually charged Xenia Onnatop obviously has a thing for the delicious young ladies and probably bats for both teams.

Prior to that Miss Lowell has that boy cut going which boarders on androgeny at the least...and speaking of androgeny, well you have that going on in spades (forgive the pun) with Grace Jones' May Day who is likely bi...and even then into the daisy chain thing with Jenny Flex and the other girl (the chinese one, Jenny's side-kick).

Octopussy bathes naked with some truly yummy girls at least 10 years younger than her on her own secluded little island colony suggesting nightly orgies of untold pleasures exclusively of the female variety.

Eric Kriegler in For Your Eyes Only has that well toned look that shames Daniel and he, of course, has No Eyes for blonde bimbo Bibi which suggests he's into much tougher meat...preferably Greek meat...and we know what the Greeks are into.

Should I continue?

Edited by HildebrandRarity, 07 January 2007 - 10:17 PM.

[Zorin Industries]

It seems Eon will not let more than one or two films go by without looking at the other end of the track.

Le Chiffre and Daniel Craig in the latest. Verity and Miranda @ Blades as well as potentially Gustav and Zao in the ice palace in the previous one.

Then it looks like Stamper may have that going about him...sort of boy/man love thing with Dr Kaufmann...and if not then the sexually charged Zenia obviously has a thing for the delicious young ladies and probably bats for both teams.

Prior to that Miss Lowell has that boy cut going which boarders on androgeny at the least...and speaking of androgeny, well you have that going on in spades (forgive the pun) with Grace Jones' May Day who is likely bi...and even then into the daisy chain thing with Jenny Flex and the other girl (the chinese one, Jenny's side-kick).

Octopussy bathes naked with some truly yummy girls at least 10 years younger than her on her own secluded little island colony suggesting nightly orgies of untold pleasures exclusively of the female variety.

Eric Kriegler in For Your Eyes Only has that well toned look that shames Daniel and he, of course, has No Eyes for blonde bimbo Bibi which suggests he's into much tougher meat...preferably Greek meat...and we know what the Greeks are into.

Should I continue?

If you want. But then I'll start (NECROS and KOSKOV - both spurn the pool ladies attentions and one was a former ballet dancer...) and that's not maybe all that useful in this discussion. Though it is very welcome if presented as well as you have just listed your "The Bond films MUST be gay because..." angles - for nothing other than it's good fun.

However Hildebrand (and you won't be bringing girls home to meet mother with that moniker!), there is never ANY pun intended when the phrase "spades" is used in a sentence that involves a black actress and character such as Grace Jones and MAY DAY. I'm sure you didn't mean it (or at least I hope you didn't...).

[HildebrandRarity]

It seems Eon will not let more than one or two films go by without looking at the other end of the track.

Le Chiffre and Daniel Craig in the latest. Verity and Miranda @ Blades as well as potentially Gustav and Zao in the ice palace in the previous one.

Then it looks like Stamper may have that going about him...sort of boy/man love thing with Dr Kaufmann...and if not then the sexually charged Zenia obviously has a thing for the delicious young ladies and probably bats for both teams.

Prior to that Miss Lowell has that boy cut going which boarders on androgeny at the least...and speaking of androgeny, well you have that going on in spades (forgive the pun) with Grace Jones' May Day who is likely bi...and even then into the daisy chain thing with Jenny Flex and the other girl (the chinese one, Jenny's side-kick).

Octopussy bathes naked with some truly yummy girls at least 10 years younger than her on her own secluded little island colony suggesting nightly orgies of untold pleasures exclusively of the female variety.

Eric Kriegler in For Your Eyes Only has that well toned look that shames Daniel and he, of course, has No Eyes for blonde bimbo Bibi which suggests he's into much tougher meat...preferably Greek meat...and we know what the Greeks are into.

Should I continue?

If you want. But then I'll start (NECROS and KOSKOV - both spurn the pool ladies attentions and one was a former ballet dancer...) and that's not maybe all that useful in this discussion. Though it is very welcome if presented as well as you have just listed your "The Bond films MUST be gay because..." angles - for nothing other than it's good fun.

However Hildebrand (and you won't be bringing girls home to meet mother with that moniker!), there is never ANY pun intended when the phrase "spades" is used in a sentence that involves a black actress and character such as Grace Jones and MAY DAY. I'm sure you didn't mean it (or at least I hope you didn't...).

It's all in good fun my dear Zorin. And I actually have brought a girl home to meet mother fer Christmas a couple of weeks ago...a first in a few years...not because I was batting for the other team...it's just the other girls were pure fun and nothing more. And, no, I didnt mean the spades thing.

And the Bond movies are *not* "gay because of...". It's just that Eon has continued the tradition of Fleming by exploring the other end, so to speak.

Perhaps there is only so much you can do with 'straight' in a series that spans decades and as I said, Bond is a Sensualist in a heightened psycho-sexual universe which plays up the fantasy (I suppose everyone's fantasy) quotient.

I love my french cuffed egyptian cotton shirts, silk ties and wool suits, my TAG-Heuer watch, my wines and champagnes, my BMW, my finely toned and blond and full breasted girlfriend and my travelling. I may be considered metro-sexual...So be it. C'est la vie. I also like art and design. But i'm not gay nor am I bi-curious.

I think the gay thing in Bond is appearent for many reasons and also it's an English series (uniquely for "Hollywood") and the English seem not to be too fussed about it as, say, the Americans.

What do you think?

Edited by HildebrandRarity, 07 January 2007 - 10:59 PM.

[marktmurphy]

If you want. But then I'll start (NECROS and KOSKOV - both spurn the pool ladies attentions and one was a former ballet dancer...)

And it's not just on that side of the fence- lest we forget Bond, when hugged and kissed by Koskov on their first meeting in Bratislavia, tries to escape Koskov's embrace by promising 'Later General...'. 'Later'?! Bond actually wants to pick up where they've been forced to leave off...

I love my french cuffed egyptian cotton shirts, silk ties and wool suits, my TAG-Heuer watch, my wines and champagnes, my BMW, my finely toned and blond and full breasted girlfriend and my travelling. I may be considered metro-sexual...So be it. C'est la vie.

Quite frankly, as a modern man about in today's London, caring just a little too much for his appearance and generally being very much into personal grooming, Bond probably should be a metrosexual type. I think Craig's casting is goo din this respect- he himself is a very modern, London guy and although his Bond is ultra-straight still, there's an aspect to him that suggests he wouldn't be uncomfortable with modern lifestyles in a way previous Bonds would have been.

[Zorin Industries]

It seems Eon will not let more than one or two films go by without looking at the other end of the track.

Le Chiffre and Daniel Craig in the latest. Verity and Miranda @ Blades as well as potentially Gustav and Zao in the ice palace in the previous one.

Then it looks like Stamper may have that going about him...sort of boy/man love thing with Dr Kaufmann...and if not then the sexually charged Zenia obviously has a thing for the delicious young ladies and probably bats for both teams.

Prior to that Miss Lowell has that boy cut going which boarders on androgeny at the least...and speaking of androgeny, well you have that going on in spades (forgive the pun) with Grace Jones' May Day who is likely bi...and even then into the daisy chain thing with Jenny Flex and the other girl (the chinese one, Jenny's side-kick).

Octopussy bathes naked with some truly yummy girls at least 10 years younger than her on her own secluded little island colony suggesting nightly orgies of untold pleasures exclusively of the female variety.

Eric Kriegler in For Your Eyes Only has that well toned look that shames Daniel and he, of course, has No Eyes for blonde bimbo Bibi which suggests he's into much tougher meat...preferably Greek meat...and we know what the Greeks are into.

Should I continue?

If you want. But then I'll start (NECROS and KOSKOV - both spurn the pool ladies attentions and one was a former ballet dancer...) and that's not maybe all that useful in this discussion. Though it is very welcome if presented as well as you have just listed your "The Bond films MUST be gay because..." angles - for nothing other than it's good fun.

However Hildebrand (and you won't be bringing girls home to meet mother with that moniker!), there is never ANY pun intended when the phrase "spades" is used in a sentence that involves a black actress and character such as Grace Jones and MAY DAY. I'm sure you didn't mean it (or at least I hope you didn't...).

It's all in good fun my dear Zorin. And I actually have brought a girl home to meet mother fer Christmas a couple of weeks ago...a first in a few years...not because I was batting for the other team...it's just the other girls were pure fun and nothing more. And, no, I didnt mean the spades thing.

And the Bond movies are *not* "gay because of...". It's just that Eon has continued the tradition of Fleming by exploring the other end, so to speak.

Perhaps there is only so much you can do with 'straight' in a series that spans decades and as I said, Bond is a Sensualist in a heightened psycho-sexual universe which plays up the fantasy (I suppose everyone's fantasy) quotient.

I love my french cuffed egyptian cotton shirts, silk ties and wool suits, my TAG-Heuer watch, my wines and champagnes, my BMW, my finely toned and blond and full breasted girlfriend and my travelling. I may be considered metro-sexual...So be it. C'est la vie. I also like art and design. But i'm not gay nor am I bi-curious.

I think the gay thing in Bond is appearent for many reasons and also it's an English series (uniquely for "Hollywood") and the English seem not to be too fussed about it as, say, the Americans.

What do you think?

Interesting. Not thought of it as an English trait. Obviously Hollywood has a duality when it comes to homosexuality - it's more than happy to employ vast numbers of gays and lesbians but less inclined to put their stories on screen. Though don't get me wrong. I'm not a flag waving, whistle blowing nelly distressed at the lack of gay role models in Tinseltown.

I would say the English might be less fussed about homosexuality than they used to be. Fortunately we don't have a political administration that is dangerously concerned with wiping homosexuality (amongst many other things, including freedom of speech) from the basic human rights of all its citizens. But that conversation is not one for this website. What do you feel Hollywood's take is at the moment?

[Zorin Industries]

If you want. But then I'll start (NECROS and KOSKOV - both spurn the pool ladies attentions and one was a former ballet dancer...)

And it's not just on that side of the fence- lest we forget Bond, when hugged and kissed by Koskov on their first meeting in Bratislavia, tries to escape Koskov's embrace by promising 'Later General...'. 'Later'?! Bond actually wants to pick up where they've been forced to leave off...

I love my french cuffed egyptian cotton shirts, silk ties and wool suits, my TAG-Heuer watch, my wines and champagnes, my BMW, my finely toned and blond and full breasted girlfriend and my travelling. I may be considered metro-sexual...So be it. C'est la vie.

Quite frankly, as a modern man about in today's London, caring just a little too much for his appearance and generally being very much into personal grooming, Bond probably should be a metrosexual type. I think Craig's casting is goo din this respect- he himself is a very modern, London guy and although his Bond is ultra-straight still, there's an aspect to him that suggests he wouldn't be uncomfortable with modern lifestyles in a way previous Bonds would have been.

I agree. That could just be Daniel Craig himself rather than the new direction the role is going. But fair play either way. Maybe - and I could be more serious than I think on this one - we may indeed see a scene where BOND seduces a guy for that vital piece of information (like where to get some gorgeous Venetian glass from...). Actually, the more I think of that, the more it would seriously work as a SOLANGE type brief encounter, that aids BOND's journey.

But then Western audiences are not the only recipients of this franchise and such bolder narrative twists may lose 007 box office favours.

[Zorin Industries]

It seems Eon will not let more than one or two films go by without looking at the other end of the track.

Le Chiffre and Daniel Craig in the latest. Verity and Miranda @ Blades as well as potentially Gustav and Zao in the ice palace in the previous one.

Then it looks like Stamper may have that going about him...sort of boy/man love thing with Dr Kaufmann...and if not then the sexually charged Zenia obviously has a thing for the delicious young ladies and probably bats for both teams.

Prior to that Miss Lowell has that boy cut going which boarders on androgeny at the least...and speaking of androgeny, well you have that going on in spades (forgive the pun) with Grace Jones' May Day who is likely bi...and even then into the daisy chain thing with Jenny Flex and the other girl (the chinese one, Jenny's side-kick).

Octopussy bathes naked with some truly yummy girls at least 10 years younger than her on her own secluded little island colony suggesting nightly orgies of untold pleasures exclusively of the female variety.

Eric Kriegler in For Your Eyes Only has that well toned look that shames Daniel and he, of course, has No Eyes for blonde bimbo Bibi which suggests he's into much tougher meat...preferably Greek meat...and we know what the Greeks are into.

Should I continue?

Yoghurt?

If you want. But then I'll start (NECROS and KOSKOV - both spurn the pool ladies attentions and one was a former ballet dancer...) and that's not maybe all that useful in this discussion. Though it is very welcome if presented as well as you have just listed your "The Bond films MUST be gay because..." angles - for nothing other than it's good fun.

However Hildebrand (and you won't be bringing girls home to meet mother with that moniker!), there is never ANY pun intended when the phrase "spades" is used in a sentence that involves a black actress and character such as Grace Jones and MAY DAY. I'm sure you didn't mean it (or at least I hope you didn't...).

It's all in good fun my dear Zorin. And I actually have brought a girl home to meet mother fer Christmas a couple of weeks ago...a first in a few years...not because I was batting for the other team...it's just the other girls were pure fun and nothing more. And, no, I didnt mean the spades thing.

And the Bond movies are *not* "gay because of...". It's just that Eon has continued the tradition of Fleming by exploring the other end, so to speak.

Perhaps there is only so much you can do with 'straight' in a series that spans decades and as I said, Bond is a Sensualist in a heightened psycho-sexual universe which plays up the fantasy (I suppose everyone's fantasy) quotient.

I love my french cuffed egyptian cotton shirts, silk ties and wool suits, my TAG-Heuer watch, my wines and champagnes, my BMW, my finely toned and blond and full breasted girlfriend and my travelling. I may be considered metro-sexual...So be it. C'est la vie. I also like art and design. But i'm not gay nor am I bi-curious.

I think the gay thing in Bond is appearent for many reasons and also it's an English series (uniquely for "Hollywood") and the English seem not to be too fussed about it as, say, the Americans.

What do you think?

[Zorin Industries]

How is Octopussy "the biggest fag-hag going"? Granted, she hangs around with Kamal, who does come off as though he may be a little bit, well, you know, but other than that....

OCTOPUSSY the character screams fag-hag! Come on - a woman clearly in her early forties who wishes she wasn't? A woman with a benevolent, understanding nature who takes in waifs and strays? A woman with major investments in the entertainment industry who thinks nothing of setting an army of leotard-clad lovelies upon the unsuspecting men of India?!!

Octopussy a fag-hag? How very dare you! I can't believe it, I won't believe it! No, sir, never - both character and film are as straight as a dye!

However, you may be interested (I wish) in my gay reading of GOLDENEYE, as posted way back on another thread:

You know, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that there's a tremendous gay subtext to GOLDENEYE (of a kind not found in any other Bond flick).

Virtually all the characters seem at least potentially queer: Natalya appears uncertain about her sexuality, shying away from Boris' innuendo and sneering at "boys with toys"; Xenia is clearly a butch lesbian; Bond behaves as though he's lost his lover rather than his best friend; and Boris discovers his true orientation midway through the picture when he sides with Trevelyan. Oh, yes, and if the fastidious, lisping Ourumov isn't homosexual I don't know who is!

Really, the only character who seems positively, definitely straight is Wade.... and even then 007 forces him to bare his bottom.

I'd be interested in reading gay CBners' views on GOLDENEYE. Or maybe zencat could explore this issue further - he's good at subtexts.

It's strange, is it not, that GOLDENEYE, alone among the Bond films, tries to sell us the idea that the most important relationship in the life of the supposedly great heterosexual seducer 007 was not with a woman (Tracy is not mentioned in this, Brosnan's debut outing) but with a man, 006.

Moreover, Bond is depicted as a chap whose relationships with women are highly dysfunctional. Throughout the film, he is criticised and belittled by members of the opposite sex, to a far greater extent than in any other entry in the series. Judi Dench's M dismisses him as a "sexist" and a "misogynist", while Samantha Bond's Moneypenny throws at him a number of stinging putdowns hardly typical of the character. Xenia casts jokey doubt on his sexual prowess; and Natalya lambasts his attitude to relationships. There is even a female psychologist who has plenty of less-than-complimentary things to say about 007's brand of masculinity.

But Bond is hardly alone: straight relationships get a rough ride throughout GOLDENEYE, with quite a few characters found wanting. Wade, we are told, has made a hash of two marriages and has already embarked on his third. Zukovsky yells at his girlfriend and seems to prefer engaging in "man talk" with Bond (and with male underlings huddled around). The admiral finds himself unable to perform with Xenia and literally dies on the job, while Boris "wouldn't know woman if one came up and sat on his head". There is even animosity between M and Bill Tanner. The sexes really don't get on in GOLDENEYE.

Or am I just reading way too much into the movie?

The GAY GOLDENEYE reading is interesting, Loomis. It's certainly a BOND / VILLAIN dynamic that does not sit as traditionally as some of the other filmic outings (no pun there - God, I'm getting worse). Though I think Sean Bean's appalling casting and equally dreadful rendering of TREVELYAN clouds the whole dynamic from the start. The most Northern of British actors going should not be playing one of the most upper class villains in the series. The original idea of securing Anthony Hopkins for the part would have worked much better.

Another posthumous fault of GOLDENEYE is it is peppered with too many female characters moulded in some shoulder-padded corporate-hell. BOND never gets a word in and is left de-masculinized at every turn. If that was Michael France's attempts at updating the female parts, then give me MARY GOODNIGHT every time.

I think you are reading far too much into this one, but why not...

[Zorin Industries]

I am sure there is a whole new gay audience of "James Bond fans" simply because of Danny Craig, just as there was a whole heap of women who suddenly became "James Bond fans" once Pierce Brosnan signed on to the role.

I do feel though that Daniel Craig HAS opened up a new audience for Bond - which is no bad thing. He was very known on the gay circuit for his theatre work and playing Derek Jacobi's lover in LOVE IS THE DEVIL. Maybe it's because Craig had an indie film background behind him which always gets the pink vote.

Daniel Craig also appeared in ANGELS IN AMERICA at the National Theatre in London. Tony Kushner's play is one of the landmark gay plays and a defining piece of 1990's theatre both here and abroad winning Tonys aplenty. The Mike Nichols directed TV mini-series is superb and gave co-lead Jeffrey Wright a much deserved Golden Globe (alongside Meryl Streep, Emma Thompson and Al Pacino). This then brought him to the world's attention - including, it is said, Barbara Broccoli. He then went on to star with Craig in THE VANISHING and now, of course, CASINO ROYALE.

Edited by Zorin Industries, 08 January 2007 - 05:28 PM.

[dodge]

How is Octopussy "the biggest fag-hag going"? Granted, she hangs around with Kamal, who does come off as though he may be a little bit, well, you know, but other than that....

OCTOPUSSY the character screams fag-hag! Come on - a woman clearly in her early forties who wishes she wasn't? A woman with a benevolent, understanding nature who takes in waifs and strays? A woman with major investments in the entertainment industry who thinks nothing of setting an army of leotard-clad lovelies upon the unsuspecting men of India?!!

Hmm, I could buy that Octopussy is a lesbian; after all, she resides on "an island populated exclusively by women", and her, er "companions" dress either in tight spandex or bikinis. Of course it takes a real man like Roger Moore to bring her back to the straight and narrow.

Fine, guys. Have your fun. But leave Pussy Galore out of this.

[Zorin Industries]

How is Octopussy "the biggest fag-hag going"? Granted, she hangs around with Kamal, who does come off as though he may be a little bit, well, you know, but other than that....

OCTOPUSSY the character screams fag-hag! Come on - a woman clearly in her early forties who wishes she wasn't? A woman with a benevolent, understanding nature who takes in waifs and strays? A woman with major investments in the entertainment industry who thinks nothing of setting an army of leotard-clad lovelies upon the unsuspecting men of India?!!

Hmm, I could buy that Octopussy is a lesbian; after all, she resides on "an island populated exclusively by women", and her, er "companions" dress either in tight spandex or bikinis. Of course it takes a real man like Roger Moore to bring her back to the straight and narrow.

Fine, guys. Have your fun. But leave Pussy Galore out of this.

Don't think we mentioned the nose-diving chanteusse with a penchant for dolly bird pilots and instant sexuality conversions in the hay....!

[stamper]

What the hell are you talking about ? I wanted to bang that chick from Desperate Housewives instead of Bond, that was enough to make me angry for one movie.

[dodge]

What the hell are you talking about ? I wanted to bang that chick from Desperate Housewives instead of Bond, that was enough to make me angry for one movie.

Relax, my friend. So far no one's committed the sacrilege of suggesting that Pussy Galore was a lesbian. I know we can't have everything but that's enough for me.

[dee-bee-five]

How do I view Bond as an old puffta? Much like the breeders, I guess - with pleasure and excitement...

Seriously, there's actually very little difference between us, y'know, guys.

[marktmurphy]

What the hell are you talking about ? I wanted to bang that chick from Desperate Housewives instead of Bond, that was enough to make me angry for one movie.

Relax, my friend. So far no one's committed the sacrilege of suggesting that Pussy Galore was a lesbian. I know we can't have everything but that's enough for me.

I take it I'm missing a gag here...? Galore is pretty much the only character we know to have been conceived as a lesbian, of course. Naturally our man James kisses some sense into her!

[dee-bee-five]

What the hell are you talking about ? I wanted to bang that chick from Desperate Housewives instead of Bond, that was enough to make me angry for one movie.

Relax, my friend. So far no one's committed the sacrilege of suggesting that Pussy Galore was a lesbian. I know we can't have everything but that's enough for me.

I take it I'm missing a gag here...? Galore is pretty much the only character we know to have been conceived as a lesbian, of course. Naturally our man James kisses some sense into her!

Yes, the scene in the book - Bond straightening out Pussy (like that would happen) - is generally regarded as Fleming's most outrageous sexual fantasy.

[Zorin Industries]

What the hell are you talking about ? I wanted to bang that chick from Desperate Housewives instead of Bond, that was enough to make me angry for one movie.

Relax, my friend. So far no one's committed the sacrilege of suggesting that Pussy Galore was a lesbian. I know we can't have everything but that's enough for me.

I take it I'm missing a gag here...? Galore is pretty much the only character we know to have been conceived as a lesbian, of course. Naturally our man James kisses some sense into her!

Yes, the scene in the book - Bond straightening out Pussy (like that would happen) - is generally regarded as Fleming's most outrageous sexual fantasy.

I thought that was Bond...?!

[Zorin Industries]

Incidentally, the gay online news / magazine site rainbownetwork.com has awarded CASINO ROYALE and Daniel Craig the "Best Movie Comeback Award" beating SUPERMAN RETURNS into second place. The site has also listed Craig as pure B.I.L.F....(!).

[brittany]

Fits just perfect into this thread:

Daniel Craig was voted Hottest Male Body at Gay.com:

http://www.gay.com/n.../channels/news/


;-)

[dodge]

Incidentally, the gay online news / magazine site rainbownetwork.com has awarded CASINO ROYALE and Daniel Craig the "Best Movie Comeback Award" beating SUPERMAN RETURNS into second place. The site has also listed Craig as pure B.I.L.F....(!).

All right, now I'm curious. What the heck is B.I.L.F.?

[Vauxhall]

Incidentally, the gay online news / magazine site rainbownetwork.com has awarded CASINO ROYALE and Daniel Craig the "Best Movie Comeback Award" beating SUPERMAN RETURNS into second place. The site has also listed Craig as pure B.I.L.F....(!).

All right, now I'm curious. What the heck is B.I.L.F.?

On the basis of the term MILF used in AMERICAN PIE, I'd suggest something such as "Boy I'd Like to F***" or "Body I'd Like to F***", etc.

[dodge]

Incidentally, the gay online news / magazine site rainbownetwork.com has awarded CASINO ROYALE and Daniel Craig the "Best Movie Comeback Award" beating SUPERMAN RETURNS into second place. The site has also listed Craig as pure B.I.L.F....(!).

All right, now I'm curious. What the heck is B.I.L.F.?

On the basis of the term MILF used in AMERICAN PIE, I'd suggest something such as "Boy I'd Like to F***" or "Body I'd Like to F***", etc.

Thanks. I'd thought it might be a sandwich, but couldn't get any further than the B and L, for bacon and lettuce. (Insert smiling emoticon, which my system blocks.)

[Zorin Industries]

Incidentally, the gay online news / magazine site rainbownetwork.com has awarded CASINO ROYALE and Daniel Craig the "Best Movie Comeback Award" beating SUPERMAN RETURNS into second place. The site has also listed Craig as pure B.I.L.F....(!).

All right, now I'm curious. What the heck is B.I.L.F.?

On the basis of the term MILF used in AMERICAN PIE, I'd suggest something such as "Boy I'd Like to F***" or "Body I'd Like to F***", etc.

Thanks. I'd thought it might be a sandwich, but couldn't get any further than the B and L, for bacon and lettuce. (Insert smiling emoticon, which my system blocks.)

It is indeed a tangent off the MILF phrase. But come on guys - "what does the B stand for?" (!). 'Bond' you fair-weather fans....!! )

Honestly, if you have to explain the joke...........