69 replies to this topic

[dinovelvet]

The fanboy in me still gets goosebumps when the film finishes with that line.

Another part of me feels it's bit self conscious. Does it really fit where it is? I guess I never got a great feel for the whole transition business. Bond doesn't seem any different to me on the boat, talking to M at the end, than he was talking to her in her office at the beginning. Why is he Bond, James Bond now suddenly?

Because he's become Bond, James Bond. It's kind of the whole point of the film, innit?
Go back to the beginning of the movie, he is supposed to bring Molloka in for questioning, but ends up killing him. It's a major screw-up, he's just following his instincts rather than thinking ahead, and he soon does this again when, out of anger he plans to walk up to Le Chiffre and stab him, which would be a repeat of the Molloka incident and would probably signal the end of his career, and maybe his life too. MI6 want Le Chiffre brought in alive for the information he has. But another agent, the wise, cool, and probably a little more experienced Felix Leiter intervenes and stops him.
Bond has good "spy instincts", like tracking the cellphone signal to the Bahamas and getting to Dimitrios, and this is probably what M saw in him when she promoted him to 00 status, but he hasn't learned to think ahead. Ironically, its Le Chiffre who clues Bond in as to "the big picture". Killing one man won't solve anything when you're dealing with a sprawling network of terrorists, the big prize is getting the information he has. His experience with Vesper only solidifies this - he ends up with a bunch of dead goons in Venice, but no answers. This time its personally affected him - all the people he just killed are now useless, he could have gotten some information out of them about Vesper, the money, and the organization etc, but they're all dead.
When he finds Mr. White, the Bond at the beginning of Casino Royale would have aimed the sights higher and blown his head off. The wiser, experienced 007 knows that this bastard is more valuable alive. It took a personal tragedy for him to figure it out, but he's finally Bond, James Bond.

[sark]

including the retirement of both the "James Bond Theme"

I thought I'd heard the worst ideas Bond fan-dom had. I'll try not to be as shocked next time.

The theme, unlike, it could possibly be argued, the Line, is neither cliched nor tired. It's still just as cool as in 1962, and no one rolls their eyes when they hear it. Change for the sake of change is a waste of time and energy.

[Publius]

Some of the cliches need to be used far more sparingly, maybe once per Bond actor (and even then not in his debut), if that. "Shaken, not stirred" falls into that category. I could see it go altogether, but poking fun at in CR made its presence there worth it. All of the above also applies to the gunbarrel.

"Bond, James Bond" is cooler and always sounds less forced, but should still be used only on occasion, and like every other cliche could do with the periodic change-up, like how Moore says "Bond, James" in FYEO or how Connery just says "JamesBond" as if it's one name in Thunderball.

The Bond theme is really the only one I'd hate to see abandoned, especially considering how open it is to new composers coming along and reimagining, or how parts of it can be used alone to greater effect (as in CR), or how it can be used subtly for non-action scenes. It's the only common thread, hell the only hint of "continuity" I'm interested in having between all the Bond movies.

[tdalton]

Besides, "Bond, James Bond" is solid Fleming, and its use is a link to the source material.

I'm absolutely fine with "Bond. James Bond" when it's not said like some sort of bold announcement that is supposed to strike fear into the villain and that is supposed to be some applause-worthy moment in the film. Each film, from GOLDENEYE to CASINO ROYALE has featured the line in such a manner that it feels cliche. Granted, its use in CASINO ROYALE is infinitely superior to the way it was used in the Brosnan Era, but it still comes across as an, for the lack of a better word, announcement rather than how someone would actually say their name. The way that Dalton said it in the PTS for THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS was great, as that was how someone would state their name when asked. The current way of saying the phrase "Bond." (long pause) "James Bond." has become cliche and that is need of being retired. The line itself, no, but the current way of actually saying it needs to change.

[BoogieBond]

The Bond, James Bond line is perfectly placed, and has maximum impact. Sure, he could have said the line in the bar to Felix as in the novel, but for the film, it was a great decision.

They have sometimes avoided Bond, James Bond in films, and I agree, it should not be in every film.
In Thunderball, I don't think Sean says it, but he still introduces himself several times. My favourite is the introduction to Largo at the Casino, to which Largo replies "Ah yes, some of my associates talk about you."
The Shaken, not stirred, could also be used sparingly. Need not be in every film, in fact I think Roger never orders the drink, but others(like Anya in Spy) order it for him.

I disagree about the gunbarrel and James Bond theme. Both are essential elements to me, that identify I am watching a James Bond film and not some generic action film.

Other cliches(Gadgets, the Q and Moneypenny characters) can also be used sparingly, as in the past, as in FYEO , DR No and CR where Bond uses very few cliched gadgets.

Edited by BoogieBond, 03 July 2008 - 12:59 AM.

[DaveBond21]

The fanboy in me still gets goosebumps when the film finishes with that line.

Me too. Love it, and will never tire of it. I think it should appear once per movie. The Bond theme should stay too.



dinovelvet - excellent post about Bond's Casino Royale transition....

[Single-O-Seven]

The gunbarrel and theme are musts for me for every film.
The name I can do without every other film or so. The mix line can be used even more sparingly. When he does say "shaken, not stirred," I like it to be not as off-the-cuff as it was used in the Brosnan films. It always felt like he was winking at the audience when it was used. He should use it in a more complete order, sort of the way Dalton used it in LTK. Just my two cents Canadian.

[Safari Suit]

I think they should include these elements as they see fit, not including them for the sake of it as part of some kind of checklist, and certainly not discarding them because that would be "totally edgy and daring!!!". It's not as if anyone is going to enter or exit the theatre on the basis of these traits.

[dodge]

The fanboy in me still gets goosebumps when the film finishes with that line.

Another part of me feels it's bit self conscious. Does it really fit where it is? I guess I never got a great feel for the whole transition business. Bond doesn't seem any different to me on the boat, talking to M at the end, than he was talking to her in her office at the beginning. Why is he Bond, James Bond now suddenly?

Because he's become Bond, James Bond. It's kind of the whole point of the film, innit?
Go back to the beginning of the movie, he is supposed to bring Molloka in for questioning, but ends up killing him. It's a major screw-up, he's just following his instincts rather than thinking ahead, and he soon does this again when, out of anger he plans to walk up to Le Chiffre and stab him, which would be a repeat of the Molloka incident and would probably signal the end of his career, and maybe his life too. MI6 want Le Chiffre brought in alive for the information he has. But another agent, the wise, cool, and probably a little more experienced Felix Leiter intervenes and stops him.
Bond has good "spy instincts", like tracking the cellphone signal to the Bahamas and getting to Dimitrios, and this is probably what M saw in him when she promoted him to 00 status, but he hasn't learned to think ahead. Ironically, its Le Chiffre who clues Bond in as to "the big picture". Killing one man won't solve anything when you're dealing with a sprawling network of terrorists, the big prize is getting the information he has. His experience with Vesper only solidifies this - he ends up with a bunch of dead goons in Venice, but no answers. This time its personally affected him - all the people he just killed are now useless, he could have gotten some information out of them about Vesper, the money, and the organization etc, but they're all dead.
When he finds Mr. White, the Bond at the beginning of Casino Royale would have aimed the sights higher and blown his head off. The wiser, experienced 007 knows that this bastard is more valuable alive. It took a personal tragedy for him to figure it out, but he's finally Bond, James Bond.

And this brilliant post is why you're permitted to wreak havoc in L.A.

[Skudor]

The fanboy in me still gets goosebumps when the film finishes with that line.

Another part of me feels it's bit self conscious. Does it really fit where it is? I guess I never got a great feel for the whole transition business. Bond doesn't seem any different to me on the boat, talking to M at the end, than he was talking to her in her office at the beginning. Why is he Bond, James Bond now suddenly?

Because he's become Bond, James Bond. It's kind of the whole point of the film, innit?
Go back to the beginning of the movie, he is supposed to bring Molloka in for questioning, but ends up killing him. It's a major screw-up, he's just following his instincts rather than thinking ahead, and he soon does this again when, out of anger he plans to walk up to Le Chiffre and stab him, which would be a repeat of the Molloka incident and would probably signal the end of his career, and maybe his life too. MI6 want Le Chiffre brought in alive for the information he has. But another agent, the wise, cool, and probably a little more experienced Felix Leiter intervenes and stops him.
Bond has good "spy instincts", like tracking the cellphone signal to the Bahamas and getting to Dimitrios, and this is probably what M saw in him when she promoted him to 00 status, but he hasn't learned to think ahead. Ironically, its Le Chiffre who clues Bond in as to "the big picture". Killing one man won't solve anything when you're dealing with a sprawling network of terrorists, the big prize is getting the information he has. His experience with Vesper only solidifies this - he ends up with a bunch of dead goons in Venice, but no answers. This time its personally affected him - all the people he just killed are now useless, he could have gotten some information out of them about Vesper, the money, and the organization etc, but they're all dead.
When he finds Mr. White, the Bond at the beginning of Casino Royale would have aimed the sights higher and blown his head off. The wiser, experienced 007 knows that this bastard is more valuable alive. It took a personal tragedy for him to figure it out, but he's finally Bond, James Bond.

Nice narrative. I still don't 'feel it' when I watch the film though.