85 replies to this topic

[Willowhugger]

For Flemming's sake people, Daniel Craig's bond uses a defillibrator on HIMSELF. It's not even that it's a dumb scene, it's that MI6 would ASSIGN him one to use on himself.

Then there's the chase sequence spread throughout the construction sight where Bond apparently think its a good idea to chase him up the side of the building than wait for him to come down.

Then he dodges through Machine Gun fire JUST LIKE BRONSAN'S BOND....and then there's the strategically placed propane tanks that he can use to make his daring escape.

There's some pretty damn silly scenes in that movie.

Edited by Willowhugger, 09 December 2006 - 02:43 AM.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

You deserve a ban for your spelling of Brosnan, alone.

[Willowhugger]

thanks for the correction there.

[Kilroy6644]

Who said MI6 assigned him the defibrillator to use on himself? Maybe it's just part of a standard emergency kit. Hell, we have them at the SHOPPING MALL where I work. I can use one, and I'm a maintenance man. Is it so hard to believe that MI6 could equip all of their cars with them?

[Willowhugger]

Who said MI6 assigned him the defibrillator to use on himself? Maybe it's just part of a standard emergency kit. Hell, we have them at the SHOPPING MALL where I work. I can use one, and I'm a maintenance man. Is it so hard to believe that MI6 could equip all of their cars with them?

Its still a very silly scene in my view. I loved Casino Royale but I don't consider suggesting that it has the same overthetop elements of The World is Not Enough and Golden Eye to be an insult. They're some of my favorite stories in the franchise.

[JimmyBond]

Then he dodges through Machine Gun fire JUST LIKE BRONSAN'S BOND....and then there's the strategically placed propane tanks that he can use to make his daring escape.

Yes, because every action movie where the hero dodges machine gun fire is paying homage to Brosnan's Bond. Look, you attempt to make a good point, but the reasons you cite don't add up.

Lets look at what this movie has that Brosnan's movies will never have:

-Genuine humor
-Great action sequences
-A great love story
-Fleming material.

[00Twelve]

Was that love store in the Casino somewhere? I agree with you. I searched high and low, but other than a reference to his parents' death, his family motto, Tracy (equivocal), and a very loooooose adaptation of the Moonraker premise in DAD, there wasn't any Fleming to be found. Casino Royale, on the other hand, is bleeding Fleming, like Leiter is bleeding chips. And most importantly, Daniel Craig's Bond bleeds Fleming like none I've ever seen. (My opinion, of course.)

[JimmyBond]

Was that love store in the Casino somewhere? :

Fixed it

[stamper]

Craig's Bond walks, runs and talks, and drive cars. He even breathe. I mean, why did they made this just like Bronzon ? The guy even have two legs and two arms, just like Brondons !

PS : I'm 8. No I'm 4.

[Publius]

Then he dodges through Machine Gun fire JUST LIKE BRONSAN'S BOND....and then there's the strategically placed propane tanks that he can use to make his daring escape.

Brosnan's Bond dodged gunfire by running at it, headfirst, with several dozen goons on all sides. Craig's Bond "dodged" gunfire in CR by running away from it, behind the extensive cover of stone pillars, and with only two distant gunmen to worry about.

[stamper]

What, they are people firing guns in CR ? It's so OLD, this is just like the Bronersnan area.
I also heard they dressed bond in a tux ? Just like Bronson !!! Someone said Bond in the opening credits goes in the toilets. Just like Brosnon ! Who the hell goes to toilets anyway ? I don't. These bond should renews themselves (by having, says, a penguin playing bond). In 3D.

[RedKelly]

Its all in the script.

[Tuxedo wearing Bond]

Then there's the chase sequence spread throughout the construction sight where Bond apparently think its a good idea to chase him up the side of the building than wait for him to come down.

LOL...erm, I don't have to say anything to that to show why he didn't but I will.

1) Bond needed to capture Mollaka, who is an expert in free running, if he stopped and waited he would just be watching Mollaka get onto the cranes and then jump onto the building. He would just be letting Mollaka get away.

2) Bond's character is constantlty reffered to as reckless and it is in his character to do such a crazy thing as chase after a free runner in a construction site. Note the way he also shoots Mollaka in an embassy with a camera watching him. He is impulsive.

3) Come on, this is a film, we wouldn't be entertained watching Bond watch a free runner leg it away from him lol.

I see your point, but it's not backed up very well at all, sorry.

[Willowhugger]

I'm sorry, I must have seen a different film than Goldeneye where Brosnan pretty much runs away as dozens of people fire machine guns at him. A scene that seems pretty blatantly similiar to the embassy running sequence.

And while there's a great deal of Flemming in Casino Royale, there's also a great deal that's not.

My point on the construction site chase is its silly and over the top that Bond is able to match a man trained in climbing like that. It brought me out of the film like the hovercar chase in Die Another Day.

I don't even see what the big difference between "I wouldn't be very good at my job if I did" is so different from the Beach conversation in Goldeneye.

[jaguar007]

I don't even see what the big difference between "I wouldn't be very good at my job if I did" is so different from the Beach conversation in Goldeneye.

First, the delievery. Craig says it firm and solid like I would picture Bond from the books. He shows that he is a professional. Brosnan in GoldenEye(It's what keeps me alive) sounds melodramatic and depressed.

[EWKDSMB]

I'm sorry, I must have seen a different film than Goldeneye where Brosnan pretty much runs away as dozens of people fire machine guns at him. A scene that seems pretty blatantly similiar to the embassy running sequence.

And while there's a great deal of Flemming in Casino Royale, there's also a great deal that's not.

My point on the construction site chase is its silly and over the top that Bond is able to match a man trained in climbing like that. It brought me out of the film like the hovercar chase in Die Another Day.

I don't even see what the big difference between "I wouldn't be very good at my job if I did" is so different from the Beach conversation in Goldeneye.

bond isn't able to match him.
thats why instead of runnig and jumping through that car or whatever it was he runs round it
why instead of climbing up the wire he just breaks the thing and uses it like a lift.
why he doesn't climb up the steel..

bond finds other ways to keep up

he uses his head to do so.

[JimmyBond]

And while there's a great deal of Flemming in Casino Royale, there's also a great deal that's not.

It's Fleming. One "m"

[stamper]

At one Moment, Bond TALK ! Man, just like bronsonan !!!!

[deth]

*sigh*

of course there will be some similarities.... the name of the character is still James Bond after all.....

[DaveBond21]

I think I know what the OP is talking about.

I just don't think he put it across right. And just because it's more like Fleming, doesn't necessarily make it good for everyone - many Bond fans have never read a James Bond book, myself included.

[Publius]

I'm sorry, I must have seen a different film than Goldeneye where Brosnan pretty much runs away as dozens of people fire machine guns at him. A scene that seems pretty blatantly similiar to the embassy running sequence.

In GoldenEye, Bond has an army of Russians shooting all around him as he's protected by little more than some flimsy hole-ridden metal. In Tomorrow Never Dies, he jumps in the direction of gunfire to leap directly into his car. He survives all that without so much as a scratch.

On the other hand, he only gets shot at for a few seconds in the embassy during Casino Royale, and there he ducks behind a wall AND uses Mollaka as a human shield (and wouldn't you know it, it ended up paying off), and he still gets his share of bloody cuts. Quite a different thing, really.

And while there's a great deal of Flemming in Casino Royale, there's also a great deal that's not.

True. But I don't care whether Fleming or Purvis & Wade are responsible, so long as it's good.

My point on the construction site chase is its silly and over the top that Bond is able to match a man trained in climbing like that. It brought me out of the film like the hovercar chase in Die Another Day.

If you think that's silly and over the top, I wonder how you stomach pretty much everything since Goldfinger. Bond is a military man, so it's not that big of a stretch to think he can just barely keep pace with this guy, especially considering he makes use of some shortcuts and quick thinking to make up the difference. To compare that to flying hovercrafts over landmines as you and your enemies all around fire Uzis at each other, well...

I don't even see what the big difference between "I wouldn't be very good at my job if I did" is so different from the Beach conversation in Goldeneye.

As jaguar007 noted, the difference is in the delivery. Craig sells it, Brosnan doesn't (for us, of course).

[Willowhugger]

And while there's a great deal of Flemming in Casino Royale, there's also a great deal that's not.

It's Fleming. One "m"

*Vanna turns the letters*

Yes, you've won a brand new car!

[EL7]

Yes, you've won a brand new car!

But can it turn invisible like Bronananan's did?

[Willowhugger]

Yes, you've won a brand new car!

But can it turn invisible like Bronananan's did?

Yes.

I have it on good authority that the Invisible Car belonged to Tracy from her days in the British secret service.

[JimmyBond]

And while there's a great deal of Flemming in Casino Royale, there's also a great deal that's not.

It's Fleming. One "m"

*Vanna turns the letters*

Yes, you've won a brand new car!

It's not very good manners to insult someone who's just trying to be helpful. Believe me, I could have been an in my reply but I chose to treat you with civility. Sorry to see I was mistaken.

[1q2w3e4r]

I'm sorry, I must have seen a different film than Goldeneye where Brosnan pretty much runs away as dozens of people fire machine guns at him. A scene that seems pretty blatantly similiar to the embassy running sequence.

And while there's a great deal of Flemming in Casino Royale, there's also a great deal that's not.

My point on the construction site chase is its silly and over the top that Bond is able to match a man trained in climbing like that. It brought me out of the film like the hovercar chase in Die Another Day.

I don't even see what the big difference between "I wouldn't be very good at my job if I did" is so different from the Beach conversation in Goldeneye.

It brought you out of the film like the hovercraft chase did it? I imagine the para surfing sequence managed to bring you right back into it though.

Quite laughable this comment "while there is a great deal of Flemming in Casino Royale, there's also a great deal that's not". Give detailed examples, those types of sweeping generalisations sound great until you have to back them up with proof.

Here's some.

1. Bond's background into joining the OO section is covered in both the novel and film. And one kill is easier than the other.
2. The Villian looses money he is instructed to invest.
3. Said villian desperate to recoup lost funds turns to gambling at the Casino Royale
4. Bond's cover is blown before he arrives to battle Le Chiffre
5. M sends someone to keep an eye on Bond
6. Bond meets allies, Leiter, Mathis
7. Almost killed in the course of the few days at Casino Royale and Hotel Splendid
8. The villian's henchmen try to kill OO7 in the casino
9. Bond is captured and tortured, Vesper is used as leverage
10. OO7 is rescued by an enemy of his enemy, after near castration
11. He recouperates in hospital and Vesper looks after him
12. Bond contemplates resigning.
13. Vesper ultimately reveals her motivations, ultimately tries to save Bond's life
14. Heroine commits suicide
15. OO7 vows vengence on those responsible for Vesper's death.

No, definantly not much Fleming in there.

Have you read the novel?

[stamper]

But in Casino Royale it is exactly like Bronsan because he wears a tuxedo just like Bornesan ! He also walks in the street, just like Borsnan ! He eats in a restaurant just like Broznan ! nanananananana !

PS : forgive me I'm 8 months old

[lafemmefantome]

Uh...can I have someone bring me some popcorn? I'm going for my uh...latest showing on non-Fleming Casino Royale this evening.

lafemme

Oh and I got the book Casino Royale in FRENCH so I'll read it and see if Fleming's still in his own book.

[00Twelve]

It is the most serious Bond film, IMO, because of several reasons.
1)No Bond film has ever seen Bond in this much pain and in so much vulnerability at the same time. Either could be debated alone, but this is unequivocally the most grotesque torture Bond has experienced.
2)I am only giving my own opinion, and I don't feel I need to establish my credibility, but I will at least say that having watched every film scores of times, read the novels several times each, and studied acting for years, my humble opinion is that I've never seen such solid acting from so many people in a Bond film. At all. And this calibre of cast has brought Fleming's original tone, through the fine adaptation by P&W & Haggis, onto screen like I honestly never thought any cast under Broccoli & Wilson could do. That's not to say that talented actors haven't been involved, but the cast dynamic is just much better, IMO, and it shows.
3)I've (arguably) never seen Bond lose so much in a Bond film. He loses the money, he is given a heart attack(!) that nearly takes him, he has his nads nearly ripped out, he has to spent 6 weeks or more recovering, he loses the winnings, and the first love of his life commits suicide. If there were any Bond adventure I could choose to undertake, believe me, this one's last.
4) I've never seen Bond as so much of a driven, professional killing machine, and at the same time, I've never seen him so very human. Nope, not even when Brosnan was doing it. That felt melodramatic, and there's a real difference. He actually lasughs at himself, gets visibly frustrated at himself, downs scotch like it's going out of style just to numb some pain, induces his own vomiting...the list goes on and on. I've just never seen Bond do such..."primal" things to survive and succeed. Love it.

For all those reasons, it just felt like far more of a grown up spy film.

Sorry, Section 26, Paragraph 5...you needed to know. Sure you understand.

[Judo chop]

I would just have to ask Willowhugger which Bond movies are more 'serious' than CR.

I mean, you don't argue that CR is not a serious movie, compared to all other movies of the same genre; a debate in which I could back you. Instead, you state that CR is not the most serious BOND movie (MAYBE that's true), but also that it's par for the course with Brosnan's films?! Yikes!

Sorry, but you lose my support there. Maybe we can compare CR to the likes of DN/FRWL/OHMSS in terms of seriousness of tone, and find some challenge. But argue that CR is less serious than anything post '69, and I'm afraid you'll just look silly.

Edited by Judo chop, 12 December 2006 - 04:56 PM.