48 replies to this topic

[Joyce Carrington]

Given that the producers are going to put in some continuity now, what with Bond going after Mr. White, and references back to Vesper, what can we expect from how Bond treats his women in the next film? How bitter, exactly, is he going to be? Are we going to see him entirely not trusting his female companions? Maybe a sort of childish overreaction that will be toned down at the end of the film to get him to the interactions with his Bondgirls as we know them from the previous 20 films?

I think partly there's a danger that he will seem too weak if he acts too hurt and embittered... I just wonder how they will handle this.

[RazorBlade]

Here's hoping they go for the same level of excellence I expect of a Joss Whedon (Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Firefly) or a Tim Minear (X-Files/Angel/Firefly) or a Mark Frost (Twin Peaks). Those guys know how to build strong characters and continuity!

Goody-bye campy Bond, hello strong character arch Bond.

[Qwerty]

I've been wondering the exact same thing, Joyce. Apart from seeing how the organization aspect will be carrying over, I cannot wait to see what kind of Bond girl Bond 22 will bring.

And Eva Green's Vesper is going to be one hell of a character/performance to follow!

[K1Bond007]

I always found Gala Brand to be an intriguing Bond girl in the novels because (as cliche as it is) she's unlike every Bond girl in the series. Every other girl somehow, at least for some amount of time, ends up with Bond, but not Gala. She declines and it upsets him, if ever so slightly. So taking that angle, I'd actually like to see one of two takes on the Bond 22 girl.

The first is sticking with Fleming and having her be at that juncture where she could easily fall in love with Bond if it were not for <blank>.

The second, and probably more apt following Vesper and Bond's trusting problems would be for Bond to reject her because of his issues. What if they get to that point where they care a lot for each other, even love, and Bond has the option of sealing the deal only he doesn't -- he walks away much like Gala did to Bond? "He touched her for the last time and then they turned away from each other and walked off into their different lives." That is so anti-Bond in the sense of the films that it's interesting. I also love the line following where she informs him of the other man: "He must get out of these two young lives and take his cold heart elsewhere. There must be no regrets. No false sentiment. The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette."

Would this ever work for film? It's kind of a downer to see your hero save the world and reject the girl because he can't come around to trust another woman again. I mean they could always pull a Casino Royale in some way and bounce back after the "downer" moment. I don't know. Leads to an interesting Bond 23 though where either Bond finds that trust again or he becomes more of the Bond we know and just sleeps around without ever forming much of a bond with any of the women until Tracy comes along.

Or something to that effect.

[triviachamp]

I was thinking of Gala Brand too K1Bond.

[Joyce Carrington]

The second, and probably more apt following Vesper and Bond's trusting problems would be for Bond to reject her because of his issues. What if they get to that point where they care a lot for each other, even love, and Bond has the option of sealing the deal only he doesn't -- he walks away much like Gala did to Bond? "He touched her for the last time and then they turned away from each other and walked off into their different lives." That is so anti-Bond in the sense of the films that it's interesting. I also love the line following where she informs him of the other man: "He must get out of these two young lives and take his cold heart elsewhere. There must be no regrets. No false sentiment. The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette."

Would this ever work for film? It's kind of a downer to see your hero save the world and reject the girl because he can't come around to trust another woman again. I mean they could always pull a Casino Royale in some way and bounce back after the "downer" moment. I don't know. Leads to an interesting Bond 23 though where either Bond finds that trust again or he becomes more of the Bond we know and just sleeps around without ever forming much of a bond with any of the women until Tracy comes along.

Or something to that effect.

I think this might be very interesting, K1Bond007, and keeps things refreshing. Since we are going for a trilogy, it could be good for him to find some kind of balance in Bond 23.

Somehow I might see a scene in Bond 22 work where the Bond girl is so fed up with Bond's mistrust she just starts screaming 'I am not her'. Then I might see a bitter Craig reply 'No, you're not' - a sign he does miss Vesper. A very risky area, but if acted well, who knows...

[saltnpepper]

As for me, I even wonder if there will be a Bond Girl in the next Bond...(except Vesper's post-death message).

[JameswpBond]

I think Bond should be shown sleeping with an indescript 'hot' girl and then shown being asked about Vesper by M and he just ignores the questions and asks her if she will get on the matter at hand (The mission). Then the main Bond girl should be similar to Vesper so that at first Bond doesn't trust her.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I think he'll go back to being a cad like he was in the bahamas.

[EWKDSMB]

The second, and probably more apt following Vesper and Bond's trusting problems would be for Bond to reject her because of his issues. What if they get to that point where they care a lot for each other, even love, and Bond has the option of sealing the deal only he doesn't -- he walks away much like Gala did to Bond? "He touched her for the last time and then they turned away from each other and walked off into their different lives." That is so anti-Bond in the sense of the films that it's interesting. I also love the line following where she informs him of the other man: "He must get out of these two young lives and take his cold heart elsewhere. There must be no regrets. No false sentiment. The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette."

Would this ever work for film? It's kind of a downer to see your hero save the world and reject the girl because he can't come around to trust another woman again. I mean they could always pull a Casino Royale in some way and bounce back after the "downer" moment. I don't know. Leads to an interesting Bond 23 though where either Bond finds that trust again or he becomes more of the Bond we know and just sleeps around without ever forming much of a bond with any of the women until Tracy comes along.

Or something to that effect.

I think this might be very interesting, K1Bond007, and keeps things refreshing. Since we are going for a trilogy, it could be good for him to find some kind of balance in Bond 23.

Somehow I might see a scene in Bond 22 work where the Bond girl is so fed up with Bond's mistrust she just starts screaming 'I am not her'. Then I might see a bitter Craig reply 'No, you're not' - a sign he does miss Vesper. A very risky area, but if acted well, who knows...

he does miss her i think.
well that's my take on things.
he will never allow him self to love again for fear of being hurt. but i also think it is becasue he wouldn't want to love someone else as much as he loved her, he wouldn't want to feel as if he'd replaced her. so in both senses he can't let go.
he can't trust and there will always be that part of him that is haunted by knowing what he could have had.

i think evry bond girl is going to suffer from 'you're not vesper syndrome'

[PrinceKamalKhan]

I think he'll go back to being a cad like he was in the bahamas.

I hope so too. I think it would lessen Vesper's impact upon his Bond's life if Craig starts "falling in love" with every leading lady during his tenure. Bring on the callous womanizer who loves 'em and leaves 'em for Bond 22.

Also, no Jinxes, Christmas Joneses or Wai Lins, please. I'd like to see Craig's Bond take on a female adversary and totally woo her to his side like Connery did to Honor Blackman/Pussy Galore in Goldfinger.

[Joyce Carrington]

I hope so too. I think it would lessen Vesper's impact upon his Bond's life if Craig starts "falling in love" with every leading lady during his tenure. Bring on the callous womanizer who loves 'em and leaves 'em for Bond 22.

Of course. But still I would also like to see some subtle consequences of what happened with Vesper on his behaviour.

[blueman]

Great topic, been wondering about this myself and don't know if I have an idea what to expect. What's cool is, unlike after OHMSS when a character arc like what's being discussed was totally ignored with the return of Connery in DAF, this time we WILL get to see what happens to Bond post-love-of-his-life. Somehow, some denial sounds about right (random hottie), with a smattering of under-his-skin stuff (Ms. Brand...). Please please please don't leave P&W to write this one.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

I hope so too. I think it would lessen Vesper's impact upon his Bond's life if Craig starts "falling in love" with every leading lady during his tenure. Bring on the callous womanizer who loves 'em and leaves 'em for Bond 22.

Of course. But still I would also like to see some subtle consequences of what happened with Vesper on his behaviour.

With emphasis on your key word subtle. Not OTT and soap operatic like it sometimes got during Brosnan's tenure.

[tdalton]

Then the main Bond girl should be similar to Vesper so that at first Bond doesn't trust her.

I agree. Based on that premise, I think that I would probably want to see Olivia Wilde in the part. When she has darker hair, there could be a bit of a resemblance between her and Eva Green, plus she was also, supposedly, the runner-up for the role of Vesper Lynd.

[supernova]

Then the main Bond girl should be similar to Vesper so that at first Bond doesn't trust her.

I agree. Based on that premise, I think that I would probably want to see Olivia Wilde in the part. When she has darker hair, there could be a bit of a resemblance between her and Eva Green, plus she was also, supposedly, the runner-up for the role of Vesper Lynd.

Vesper could have a sister - not a twin, but someone that bears an uncanny resemblance to her. Now that would be interesting.

[Warpechowski]

Oh no, not the "twin effect", that is too cheap.

I want them to come with something interesting. And I also would like Bond

[horsehead]

The problem the writers (P&W or whoever it may end up being) have is that you've got to make sure that, as mentioned above, you take Bond back to being the cad where women are things to be used & thrown away but also keep him having the missing piece inside that Vesper took away. I want to see Bond be Bond...the assasin, the man who takes the chances for queen & country but personally I also want him to be the broken man who feels the need to put something into the hole that Vesper left & finding that nothing fits.

Gala Brand would be an excellent addition, whether in name or just in character to the next film. The fact that he is the cad & drops his guard again only to be hurt again would be intriguing. But then again it might be too soon.

[bill007]

Welcome to the forums horsehead.

Good point. We have our own *Gala* here who would be happy to see your suggestion.

Bond's "cad-ness" is a result of what happened to him during the Casino Royale mission. He only wanted women who were un-attachable until Vesper came along. Broke his heart.

Thus, gals are for pleasure, and only pleasure. No attachments. As cold as that may seem to the female persuasion, he is a man with a career that precludes him from getting 'attached.'

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Edited by bill007, 25 December 2006 - 07:03 AM.

[*Gala*]

Well, they could have had Gala Brand had they not changed Miranda Frost, given Jinx the spotlight, and *goes on ranting* but the point is that they didn't so I totally agree that Gala Brand still has to appear PROPERLY since that wasn't Gala Brand in Moonraker either as far as I'm concerned.

And even though I DO strongly agree that we should have Gala Brand in the upcoming Bond films, I still think it's better that we leave her until Bond 23. Here's why:

THE PLAN

1) Think of Fleming. Inbetween Vesper (Casino Royale) and Gala Brand (Moonraker), there was Solitaire (Live and Let Die). Even though Jane Seymour already was Solitaire and having another character named Solitaire would annoy the living daylights out of me, I still think we need somebody inbetween Vesper and Gala's appearances. Obviously Fleming had a reason for this.

2) As much as I love K1Bond007's suggestion, I can't see Bond being the one to reject Gala while she is still pretty much in love with him. Sry but I just can't let my favorite Bond girl of all time have her character in the films ruined. HOWEVER, there is a very very good alternative to all this...

3) Have Bond 22 have a girl who is somewhat desperate, overlooked, etc. the way Solitaire was and for Bond to reject her. She can still be madly in love with him, go "head over heels" for him if you really want to push it, etc. However, Bond is the cold one and he doesn't want to get involved due to Vesper. The bond girl here can have the whole "I'm not her!" issue.
Come Bond 23, put in Gala Brand and this time turn the tables so it will be like in Fleming's Moonraker. After Bond girl 22, Bond will perhaps try to open up somewhat, only for Gala Brand to do what she did and turn him down. That way we still keep her character, Gala doesn't get ruined, a mad fan won't be ranting around forums and ducking rotten tomatoes, and we won't have to change her name to "Miranda Frost" or "Goodhead" or whatever. Bond will have seen both extremes in Bond 22 and 23 as well as been in a relationship and gotten "messed up" thanks to Vesper in Casino Royale (Bond 21). After all this, it is only logical in Bond 24 that he will be who he is afterwards - sex for dinner and death for breakfast, shaken, not stirred.

bill007, my gratitudes to you gettting me to put in my two cents in this thread. Well, here they are and I hope that I've helped you guys out as to how they should pull it off concerning the Bond girls.

ALSO NOTE

In some interview/forum/something-or-other-I-can't-remember, I recall a critic claiming that no actress would want to play Gala Brand because she is bound to do terror to the entire Bond girl image in the movies. My response to this is simple.

1) Read the books. n00b.
2) NO ACTRESS? Yeah ********* right! That's just cuz SOME of us are too young and technically not actresses...
3) Bond girl image? Who says EVERY Bond girl has to bond with Bond? *rolls eyes*
4) Do terror? *raises eyebrow* Bring it on!

Sry, but I had to chuck in my lil rant because wherever I read that about two weeks ago, it left me a little angry. Sry that I don't have the source of it.

[RazorBlade]

Well, they could have had Gala Brand had they not changed Miranda Frost, given Jinx the spotlight, and *goes on ranting* but the point is that they didn't so I totally agree that Gala Brand still has to appear PROPERLY since that wasn't Gala Brand in Moonraker either as far as I'm concerned.

And even though I DO strongly agree that we should have Gala Brand in the upcoming Bond films, I still think it's better that we leave her until Bond 23. Here's why:

THE PLAN

1) Think of Fleming. Inbetween Vesper (Casino Royale) and Gala Brand (Moonraker), there was Solitaire (Live and Let Die). Even though Jane Seymour already was Solitaire and having another character named Solitaire would annoy the living daylights out of me, I still think we need somebody inbetween Vesper and Gala's appearances. Obviously Fleming had a reason for this.

2) As much as I love K1Bond007's suggestion, I can't see Bond being the one to reject Gala while she is still pretty much in love with him. Sry but I just can't let my favorite Bond girl of all time have her character in the films ruined. HOWEVER, there is a very very good alternative to all this...

3) Have Bond 22 have a girl who is somewhat desperate, overlooked, etc. the way Solitaire was and for Bond to reject her. She can still be madly in love with him, go "head over heels" for him if you really want to push it, etc. However, Bond is the cold one and he doesn't want to get involved due to Vesper. The bond girl here can have the whole "I'm not her!" issue.
Come Bond 23, put in Gala Brand and this time turn the tables so it will be like in Fleming's Moonraker. After Bond girl 22, Bond will perhaps try to open up somewhat, only for Gala Brand to do what she did and turn him down. That way we still keep her character, Gala doesn't get ruined, a mad fan won't be ranting around forums and ducking rotten tomatoes, and we won't have to change her name to "Miranda Frost" or "Goodhead" or whatever. Bond will have seen both extremes in Bond 22 and 23 as well as been in a relationship and gotten "messed up" thanks to Vesper in Casino Royale (Bond 21). After all this, it is only logical in Bond 24 that he will be who he is afterwards - sex for dinner and death for breakfast, shaken, not stirred.

bill007, my gratitudes to you gettting me to put in my two cents in this thread. Well, here they are and I hope that I've helped you guys out as to how they should pull it off concerning the Bond girls.

ALSO NOTE

In some interview/forum/something-or-other-I-can't-remember, I recall a critic claiming that no actress would want to play Gala Brand because she is bound to do terror to the entire Bond girl image in the movies. My response to this is simple.

1) Read the books. n00b.
2) NO ACTRESS? Yeah ********* right! That's just cuz SOME of us are too young and technically not actresses...
3) Bond girl image? Who says EVERY Bond girl has to bond with Bond? *rolls eyes*
4) Do terror? *raises eyebrow* Bring it on!

Sry, but I had to chuck in my lil rant because wherever I read that about two weeks ago, it left me a little angry. Sry that I don't have the source of it.

I like the cut of your cloth Gala. And don't worry about the little rant. We all have rant worthy topics.

[*Gala*]

Glad to hear it, RazorBlade. Let's hope that EON and Brocolli will stumble upon this and nod their heads, however unlikely it may seem to me at the moment...

[RazorBlade]

Straner things have happened. It's a brillant idea so it should be discussed anyway.

One thing I'm interested in seeing in Bond 22 is the relationship between the Big Bad and his gal pal. If they were really in love like say Spike and Drusilla from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, that would add to the story IMO. Plus really get in DC's face what he can't have anymore. That could give Bond's emotional pain some cred, and get some audience sympathy too.

[*Gala*]

Well let's just hope that the strangeness will continue in our favor then, shall we?

The relationship there would be quite a strong point, I agree. But I still think that it should be similar to what Solitaire experienced in Live and Let Die just because that makes her somewhat more desperate and Bond refusing and being cold would be even better there because we could really see how it's affecting him from within. Plus that way we could see that the Big Bad is undergoing love issues too and if he has just *something* in common with Big Bad on an emotional level, that would really make it deep. Then we could go ahead with RazorBlade's idea and have Big Bad actually wuv his girl at the end just to have the perfect foreshadowy-cliffhanger-type-thing for Bond 23 where we undergo operation Gala Brand.

[RazorBlade]

Well let's just hope that the strangeness will continue in our favor then, shall we?

The relationship there would be quite a strong point, I agree. But I still think that it should be similar to what Solitaire experienced in Live and Let Die just because that makes her somewhat more desperate and Bond refusing and being cold would be even better there because we could really see how it's affecting him from within. Plus that way we could see that the Big Bad is undergoing love issues too and if he has just *something* in common with Big Bad on an emotional level, that would really make it deep. Then we could go ahead with RazorBlade's idea and have Big Bad actually wuv his girl at the end just to have the perfect foreshadowy-cliffhanger-type-thing for Bond 23 where we undergo operation Gala Brand.

It's as though you're thinking my thoughts. Get out of head! lol
No really this is what I was thinking. Mostly I hope that Bond 22 continues the legacy of CR by giving us strong characterization, outstanding performances, exciting action and more Bond, baby, Bond.

[*Gala*]

Alrighty... are you sure you're not my clone, alter-ego, past life, future life, or anything else of the sort? You're starting to scare me...

[RazorBlade]

Alrighty... are you sure you're not my clone, alter-ego, past life, future life, or anything else of the sort? You're starting to scare me...

How can we be sure of anything? Otherwise, I don't think so.

I'm pretty sure the next film will be super. Doesn't that count?

[*Gala*]

It does cuz I'm thiking the same thing... *horror music plays in background*

[Gri007]

I personally don't think they'll be any specific Bond girls. M and possably Moneypenny or even Ms Ponsonby might be in it.

I think Bond will be to heart broken to get involved with another women just yet. We might see him at Vespers funeral. Bond 23 we might se Bond with a girl. He'll be to emotoanlly wrecked to be with another girl just yet.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

I personally don't think they'll be any specific Bond girls. M and possably Moneypenny or even Ms Ponsonby might be in it.

I think Bond will be to heart broken to get involved with another women just yet. We might see him at Vespers funeral. Bond 23 we might se Bond with a girl. He'll be to emotoanlly wrecked to be with another girl just yet.

No Bond girls! I don't see that happening. I'll think he will be back to his ladykilling ways but no emotional attachments.