61 replies to this topic

[MsGreen]

was there a scene where Bond spotted Vesper in Aspen before boarding the train? I thought I read this somewhere

Bond locked Vesper in the elevator? OMG - that's new!

[Vauxhall]

Out of curiosity, how long was the script originally?

I've mislaid my copy, but I believe the December 2005 draft was about 104 pages long.

[# 11]

The way villains Carlos and Gettler meet their demises have been changed. both a little more icky than the script.

How did Carlos die in the script?

[Orion]

The way villains Carlos and Gettler meet their demises have been changed. both a little more icky than the script.

How did Carlos die in the script?

bond shoots him then the police jump on bond in the script, whilst in film Bond is jumped on then Carlos accidently blows himslef up.

[Vauxhall]

The way villains Carlos and Gettler meet their demises have been changed. both a little more icky than the script.

How did Carlos die in the script?

bond shoots him then the police jump on bond in the script, whilst in film Bond is jumped on then Carlos accidently blows himslef up.

Yes, originally Carlos is walking away from the scene, when Bond shoots him in the back.

[Gri007]

The torture scene features more Valenka. She comes out in the middle of torturing Vesper to ask for some more implements she can use on her.

This would explain the bandage and splinth on Vespers little finger. I mentioned this in another thread.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

So in the Dec 2005 Draft is it Bond who couses Vesper's death.

[Vauxhall]

So in the Dec 2005 Draft is it Bond who couses Vesper's death.

No. She still commits suicide. Bond just locks her in the lift to keep her out the way.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

So he locks her BEFORE killing Gettler. I understand now

[Andrew]

I didn't read the script but wasn't there supposed to be a line from Bond refering to women "always hanging on your gun arm" or something like that?

[Vauxhall]

I didn't read the script but wasn't there supposed to be a line from Bond refering to women "always hanging on your gun arm" or something like that?

Yes, that was in the extended dialogue between Bond and Mathis at the restaurant in the hilltop town in Montenegro.

[Andrew]

I didn't read the script but wasn't there supposed to be a line from Bond refering to women "always hanging on your gun arm" or something like that?

Yes, that was in the extended dialogue between Bond and Mathis at the restaurant in the hilltop town in Montenegro.

Damn. Was there anything else good in that scene?

[prinmy]

Is it just me, or did anyone else think the script was better in some places than the finished film?

In particular:

The relationship between Vesper and Bond was rendered even better in the script, and certain performance details I thought would have really established their mutual attraction in a more definitive fashion. These little moments, which may have ended up on the cutting room floor, would have been terrific additions. Things I missed and would have enjoyed:

a) The conversation at the train station the next morning after their initial introduction. The part that included the line, "Do secret agents pay taxes?"

The aforementioned exchange between Mathis and Bond while vesper had her back to them. I thought Mathis' line about, "For someone who works at the Treasury, the girl has nerve; didn't flinch at my little show.." was very useful in developing Vesper. And Bond's "..the bullets would pass right through her.." is a nice bit of characterisation as well.

c)I thought the bathroom scene was much better in the script..in particular the scene where Vesper catches Bond in an unguarded moment eyeing the dinner jacket she got him appreciatively. And I miss the short scene when Vesper reconsiders Bond through the doorway between their rooms again. I thought that was a nice beat to that sequence.

d) I really miss Vesper's line about her father..even though it was a bit too much a 'movie' line, I felt it worked as a clue to her motivation, and it made her more sympathetic for turning down Bond when he asks for the extra 5 million.

Bond's injury post-torture was, I thought, mistakenly played down. As a direct result, I felt it made her line about his " ..smile and..little finger.." a lot less effective. The film, the way it was cut, just never convinced us that he was very seriously injured, and that there was a very real possibility of his not being able to function as a 'man' again...and that is what makes her line work. The passage of time (weeks in the script) was also not very clearly expressed, and that really shortchanges the moment when he regains full use of all his 'appendages', which is really quite nicely done in the script.

There's more ( like the conversation in the hotel room in Venice.." it has been quite a while for me.." etc and the penultimate scene on the yacht), but rather than bore you all, suffice it to say, as much as I enjoyed Casino Royale, I think it begs for an extended cut. Just put back in some of what they'd shot and at least allow us to glimpse what might have been.

Edited by prinmy, 18 December 2006 - 11:17 PM.

[Byron]

Is it just me, or did anyone else think the script was better in some places than the finished film?

In particular:

The relationship between Vesper and Bond was rendered even better in the script, and certain performance details I thought would have really established their mutual attraction in a more definitive fashion. These little moments, which may have ended up on the cutting room floor, would have been terrific additions. Things I missed and would have enjoyed:

a) The conversation at the train station the next morning after their initial introduction. The part that included the line, "Do secret agents pay taxes?"

The aforementioned exchange between Mathis and Bond while vesper had her back to them. I thought Mathis' line about, "For someone who works at the Treasury, the girl has nerve; didn't flinch at my little show.." was very useful in developing Vesper. And Bond's "..the bullets would pass right through her.." is a nice bit of characterisation as well.

c)I thought the bathroom scene was much better in the script..in particular the scene where Vesper catches Bond in an unguarded moment eyeing the dinner jacket she got him appreciatively. And I miss the short scene when Vesper reconsiders Bond through the doorway between their rooms again. I thought that was a nice beat to that sequence.

d) I really miss Vesper's line about her father..even though it was a bit too much a 'movie' line, I felt it worked as a clue to her motivation, and it made her more sympathetic for turning down Bond when he asks for the extra 5 million.

Bond's injury post-torture was, I thought, mistakenly played down. As a direct result, I felt it made her line about his " ..smile and..little finger.." a lot less effective. The film, the way it was cut, just never convinced us that he was very seriously injured, and that there was a very real possibility of his not being able to function as a 'man' again...and that is what makes her line work. The passage of time (weeks in the script) was also not very clearly expressed, and that really shortchanges the moment when he regains full use of all his 'appendages', which is really quite nicely done in the script.

There's more ( like the conversation in the hotel room in Venice.." it has been quite a while for me.." etc and the penultimate scene on the yatch), but rather than bore you all, suffice it to say, as much as I enjoyed Casino Royale, I think it begs for an extended cut. Just put back in some of what they'd shot and at least allow us to glimpse what might have been.

Interesting points, thank you. If they can include deleted scenes on the LTK dvd why not CR?

[kneelbeforezod]

Yes, fascinating points there prinmy. I definitely see what you mean about that "if all that was left of you was your smile" line, in the film that line seems to come out of nowhere.

God I wish someone would PM me the script!

Edited by kneelbeforezod, 18 December 2006 - 01:41 AM.

[yuta_rule]

Is it just me, or did anyone else think the script was better in some places than the finished film?

In particular:

The relationship between Vesper and Bond was rendered even better in the script, and certain performance details I thought would have really established their mutual attraction in a more definitive fashion. These little moments, which may have ended up on the cutting room floor, would have been terrific additions. Things I missed and would have enjoyed:

a) The conversation at the train station the next morning after their initial introduction. The part that included the line, "Do secret agents pay taxes?"

The aforementioned exchange between Mathis and Bond while vesper had her back to them. I thought Mathis' line about, "For someone who works at the Treasury, the girl has nerve; didn't flinch at my little show.." was very useful in developing Vesper. And Bond's "..the bullets would pass right through her.." is a nice bit of characterisation as well.

c)I thought the bathroom scene was much better in the script..in particular the scene where Vesper catches Bond in an unguarded moment eyeing the dinner jacket she got him appreciatively. And I miss the short scene when Vesper reconsiders Bond through the doorway between their rooms again. I thought that was a nice beat to that sequence.

d) I really miss Vesper's line about her father..even though it was a bit too much a 'movie' line, I felt it worked as a clue to her motivation, and it made her more sympathetic for turning down Bond when he asks for the extra 5 million.

Bond's injury post-torture was, I thought, mistakenly played down. As a direct result, I felt it made her line about his " ..smile and..little finger.." a lot less effective. The film, the way it was cut, just never convinced us that he was very seriously injured, and that there was a very real possibility of his not being able to function as a 'man' again...and that is what makes her line work. The passage of time (weeks in the script) was also not very clearly expressed, and that really shortchanges the moment when he regains full use of all his 'appendages', which is really quite nicely done in the script.

There's more ( like the conversation in the hotel room in Venice.." it has been quite a while for me.." etc and the penultimate scene on the yatch), but rather than bore you all, suffice it to say, as much as I enjoyed Casino Royale, I think it begs for an extended cut. Just put back in some of what they'd shot and at least allow us to glimpse what might have been.

well said prinmy! i read the entire script yesterday and damn was it good! I mean I really am a HUUUGE fan of CR but the script really blew me away. Still, I think the movie captured the really essential parts. I guess they didn't want to focus TOO much on the relationship thinking that it may turn away Bond fans who're watching for the action and blah though I personally would have love to see more development on the relationship!!! Gosh, I really they shot all those things, then at least there's a shred of hope left that we'd get them on DVD...

[MattofSteel]

God I wish someone would PM me the script!

Me too.

[Jeff007]

Pleas PM a copy of the script to me also. Thanks.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

And how was the teaser originaly... Do we see Bond intercepting Fisher ?

[# 11]

If this is now a trend, I would be very pleased if someone send me the script, too.

[EyesOnly]

Me too please please please!!

[bonds_walther]

Some interesting points in this thread.

Oh, I'd really appreciate it if someone could PM a link to the script. I can't add my own thoughts to this thread otherwise!

Thanks in advance.

[Diabolik]

I hope we get the 30+ minutes, Lord of the Rings treatment on the DVD.

I hope we get a 30- minutes version. Even though it is one of the great Bond films, it's about 30 minutes too long (the pacing is really odd). That said, it's still one of my favorites.

I saw an early behind-the-scenes photo of a pummeled Bond being taken away in a hospital strecher. (Post torture?) This certainly wasn't in the film (I'm glad it wasn't. It worked fading to black and coming up to the rehab place on the lake).

Edited by Diabolik, 21 December 2006 - 03:42 PM.

[uvhadyrsix]

30 mins more i would like to see everything that was filmed then i can edit it all myself after hearing what was left out i feel ripped off.

But thats what you seem to hear from the director's on the DVD's
"We didn't think it worked so we left it out" scary thing is Martin Campbell was one that said it.
i suppose around the time closer to BOND 22 thats when we will see a so called Director's Cut that what they usually do.

Casino Royale is one of the best Bond films, but without those missing scenes it does feel choppy and to me unfinished.

Once again the Brocolli twins have struck.

[Elmason]

Very interesting topic as a few people mentioned earlier can someone PM the script to me? I'm dying to make my own comparisons.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

Very interesting topic as a few people mentioned earlier can someone PM the script to me? I'm dying to make my own comparisons.

Me Too. PM me the script please !!!

[Agent Spriggan Ominae]

It's intresting how the action scenes evolved from the script to screen. In particular the MIA and Venice sequences.

Carlos had one more additonal line, "Get this truck out of here! It's a fire a fire emergency!" which he says to the tanker driver. Also Carlos opens the fuel tank and drops the keychain bomb inside making it impossible for Bond to retrive it. The driver then gets into the truck with Carlos dropping in beside him and breaking his neck, opening the door and kicking the body onto the tarmac.

Originally during the tanker chase they had Bond make it onto the back of the tanker after jumping from the stairway. Carlos then drove under a taxing plane causing Bond to leap up onto the wing, run across and jump off the other side back onto the tanker. It's at this point that Bond finds himself clinging to the strut of the tanker and dangling over the side. The collision with the tow tug is there but instead of running after the tanker like in the finished film Bond instead commendeers the tug and there is a brief vehicle chase with Bond trying to drive the tanker off the tarmac.

Carlos starts shooting at Bond then the baggage train passes infront of them with the tanker crashing through the center and Bond has to break off and steer the tug around the train saving the drivers life but crashes into the center of a bendy-bus going in the opposite direction. The Tow Tug severs the bus in half and sends the back half spinning into the path of the tanker whih crashes into it and stalls. Bond then ditches the tug and runs towards the tanker as Carlos tries to get the engine going again. Just as the tanker starts off again Bond jumps on the running board and gets inside. The script makes no mention of any explosions in the bus collision. The police open fire on the tanker but don't shoot out tires but they do fill the tank full of holes. They also didn't have the cop car getting caught in the jet blast.

When Craig said he petitioned to have a suicide bomber removed from the script he must have been refering to Carlos's character, which I find ironic given his ultimate fate. It pretty clear that Carlos was planning on going up with the tanker. In the script he throws Bond through the shattered windscreen and Bond almost falls under the tanker in a scene that seems very much inspired by Raiders of the Lost Ark. Bond clinging to the front fender still has the gun and aims under the tanker and shoots out the rear tires as Carlos is speeding towards the airliner with his finger on the detonator. Even with the back tires blown out the tanker holds it's course and sparks are flying. Bond then shoots out the front tire and tankers skids sideways and comes to a stop inches from the airline. Carlos who is a little stunned from the violent stop opens the door and drops out of the cab and turns to retrive the detonator. Still standing outside the cab he's about to set off the bomb when a single gunshot is heard and suprised look crosses his face and he drops to the ground dead revealing Bond standing behind him, gun rasied.

All in all I have to say the change they made for the final film was brilliant. The finale to the sequence is classic. I'll do my breakdown of the Venice sequence from the script later.

[ralawar]

I've been looking for/wanting a copy of the script, too. Please pm me it or a link. Thanks!

[LadySylvia]

Is it just me, or did anyone else think the script was better in some places than the finished film?

In particular:

The relationship between Vesper and Bond was rendered even better in the script, and certain performance details I thought would have really established their mutual attraction in a more definitive fashion. These little moments, which may have ended up on the cutting room floor, would have been terrific additions. Things I missed and would have enjoyed:

a) The conversation at the train station the next morning after their initial introduction. The part that included the line, "Do secret agents pay taxes?"

The aforementioned exchange between Mathis and Bond while vesper had her back to them. I thought Mathis' line about, "For someone who works at the Treasury, the girl has nerve; didn't flinch at my little show.." was very useful in developing Vesper. And Bond's "..the bullets would pass right through her.." is a nice bit of characterisation as well.

c)I thought the bathroom scene was much better in the script..in particular the scene where Vesper catches Bond in an unguarded moment eyeing the dinner jacket she got him appreciatively. And I miss the short scene when Vesper reconsiders Bond through the doorway between their rooms again. I thought that was a nice beat to that sequence.

d) I really miss Vesper's line about her father..even though it was a bit too much a 'movie' line, I felt it worked as a clue to her motivation, and it made her more sympathetic for turning down Bond when he asks for the extra 5 million.

Bond's injury post-torture was, I thought, mistakenly played down. As a direct result, I felt it made her line about his " ..smile and..little finger.." a lot less effective. The film, the way it was cut, just never convinced us that he was very seriously injured, and that there was a very real possibility of his not being able to function as a 'man' again...and that is what makes her line work. The passage of time (weeks in the script) was also not very clearly expressed, and that really shortchanges the moment when he regains full use of all his 'appendages', which is really quite nicely done in the script.

There's more ( like the conversation in the hotel room in Venice.." it has been quite a while for me.." etc and the penultimate scene on the yacht), but rather than bore you all, suffice it to say, as much as I enjoyed Casino Royale, I think it begs for an extended cut. Just put back in some of what they'd shot and at least allow us to glimpse what might have been.

I don't think I can agree with your assessment. The above material that was originally in the script doesn't really seem much of an improvement (or none at all) in the Bond/Vesper relationship. Actually, it seem more like added baggage. And considering that the movie ended up with a running time of 2 hours and 24 minutes, I think that the above material would have dragged the film, in the end.

It pretty clear that Carlos was planning on going up with the tanker.

Why? Carlos was nothing more than a terrorist for hire. And a replacement, no less. Why would he give up his life so that Le Chiffre can financially benefit from the incident?

No, I think that he had planned to jump out of the tanker before it struck the plane.

Edited by LadySylvia, 13 March 2007 - 05:25 PM.

[prinmy]

I don't think I can agree with your assessment. The above material that was originally in the script doesn't really seem much of an improvement (or none at all) in the Bond/Vesper relationship. Actually, it seem more like added baggage. And considering that the movie ended up with a running time of 2 hours and 24 minutes, I think that the above material would have dragged the film, in the end.

Hello LadySlyvia,

Glad to be back on this thread after so long!

While I agree if those sections were merely plonked down between the existing scenes may result in an uncomfortably long film--personally, I would have willingly given up some of the screen time presently used for the action sequences in order to accommodate a tad more character development. I may be in the minority for saying this, but I felt some of the action sequences ran for far too long..the entire MIA sequence for instance felt kinda long (to me)..perhaps because it wasn't presenting us with anything we hadn't seen before vis a vis fight in-a-moving-vehicle sorta sequence. The opening parkour sequence, especially by the time they got to the Nambutu Embassy, also felt long to me. As a matter of fact, I felt that the screen time devoted to shots of Bond dodging machine gun bullets actually detracted from sequence, because it crossed over from willingly suspending my disbelief to sheer incredulity.

But that's ultimately a personal call..I'm certain many people enjoyed the sequences as they stand. The parts of the film which bothered me most were actually the bits between Vesper and Bond. I felt some of what was taken out during the edit gutted the relationship between the two. And to be honest, I don't think everything in the script should have made it into the final edit..the skinny dipping scene on the yacht, for instance, was rather superfluous, character-wise. It would have been a nice addition in the 'deleted scenes' section of the DVD, but no more.

The footage I did miss, however, I felt would have added to the flow of the story, and nuance to the relationship. What's more, there wouldn't have taken any more than a few minutes, in toto, of screen time. I personally think that, as an editor, when you're already at 144 mins for your final cut, 3-4 mins extra is not going to make much of a difference to the exhibitors re: the number of screenings per day. I think that's the point where diminishing returns have to be prudently measured in either direction: leave in too much and risk boring your audience to tears, but take too much out and you undermine the very relationships you had set out to build.

Now please hear me out, and I'll give you two (ok, maybe three )examples of how I felt a few extra seconds of screen time would have added lots of extra value to certain scenes (naturally this is with the proviso that the scenes were shot and the footage/performances usable):

1) The Terrace Sequence (right after Bond loses his initial stake):

This is how it played on screen after Vesper turns him down for the extra 5 million--

Bond (almost laughs): "You bloody idiot!"

Vesper: "I'm sorry??"

Bond: "I can beat him! Look in my eyes. You know that!"

Vesper (stares coldly at Bond): " Get you hand off my arm."


Now contrast that with the following (as scripted, and presumably filmed):

Bond: "I can beat him! Look in my eyes. You know that!"

Vesper: "My father was a gambler. Had that same winning look in his eye. Right up to the day when he shot my mother and put a gun in his own mouth. Get your hand off my arm."

Now this information could have been parsed out slowly, say during the post-game dinner conversation. If it had been placed there, it would have been like a confessional, an opening up of sorts. Whereas the same information, delivered precisely at that heated moment on the terrace, would have the force of a slap.

How does our knowing this, at that particular moment help us, the audience, and Bond? IMO, it would have serviced several points:

a) An 'Ohhhhh!' moment for the audience--we suddenly see the twisted accuracy of Bond's 'read' of her during their first meeting on the train (i.e. her status as 'orphan').

b ) It would explain her disdain for the plan in the first place.

c) It would go some ways in adding nuance to why she turns Bond down for the extra $5 million (even if she was already being blackmailed and ordered to do so).

d) It would also make her slightly more sympathetic in the eyes of the audience--she wouldn't seem to be so much of a bitch for turning Bond down.

e) This verbal 'slap' would turn the screws so much as to make Bond (1) not care whether his martini was shaken or stirred and (2) take the impulsively drastic action of trying to attack Le Chiffre with a knife.

That's a lot gained in the plus column just for three short lines of dialogue.


2)The Post Torture Sequence:

I honestly feel that sequence could have used the most work. It felt really choppy when I was watching it in the theatre.

My personal complaints regarding this section are twofold -- First is the severity of Bond's wounds. The moment when Vesper says to Bond, "..you would still be more of a man than anyone I've ever met..", felt to me like it came from nowhere. I'm not saying that the stuff with Bond going in and out of consciousness should have been left in-- I don't regard that material as essential-- BUT I do feel that the audience should have been made very aware of the severity of Bond's injuries. As it stands, he seems to be like a person recovering from a generic brutal beating. Whereas the book and the script really make it a point that his injuries threaten his very manhood. Only in that context would there be some basis for Vesper's line. Otherwise it just feels like some over-the-top pronouncement ex nihilo. A scene, a moment pointing to his 'problem' would have sufficed.

There was an exchange right before Mr. Mendel shows up which I think wasn't in the film:

Vesper: " So, where would you like me?"

Bond: " I'm afraid 'like' is not the problem."

Vesper: "..How does it feel?"

Bond: "Mostly numb, fortunately.."

(then Mendel is introduced)


My second quibble has to with the portrayal of the passage of time during Bond's convalescence. In the film, it feels like there's really not much time passing, and more importantly, the moment of Bond's total recovery is somewhat glossed over, which I feel detracts from their relationship.

First off, the script denotes a distinct passage of time (I believe there is stage direction indicating that Bond is now 'clean shaven')--that is when they stumble back into the room while it's raining outside. They embrace, fall off the bed.

Now this is where the film deviates from the script.

In the script,there is a beat added when they're on the floor. The stage direction reads thusly: ' Vesper's hand slides across James' stomach. We cut to their faces before her hand finds its mark. Her coy smile tells us what we need to know, as does James.'

Then the nurse walks in on them (which I think was also filmed), excuses herself and exits.

Now for me, that's a crucial beat that was cut out, because it serviced several points (IMO).

a) First, there is the issue of recovery time, which I think adds to the idea of the severity of his wounds. It also allows us to feel that the relationship is allowed some off screen time to develop.

b ) It makes Vesper even more important because she is there at the very moment when he becomes a 'man' again (which in turn adds to the depth of his feelings when he thinks he's betrayed--bonus! ).

c) With this added moment, we get to feel like they had that stolen idyllic moment, made all the more wistfully tragic with the subsequent unfolding of events.


As it is now cut, that scene feels like, 'oh now everything is fine again, and they're rutting like rabbits' ( he could have been shagging the nurses before this for all we know )..whereas the added beat of them on the floor transforms the complexion of the entire scene. Suddenly it becomes THE moment of his recovery, and the point when their relationship is taken to the next level.

And what would it have cost them (in terms of screen time)? Hardly anything really..and again, as in the scene on the terrace, what's gained is incalculable.

3) The Venice Sequence:. I'm sort of 50/50 on this one, but I do think it adds nuance and some motivation to Vesper's last actions.

They are in the hotel. Vesper surfaces from between the sheets, playfully fighting James off.

Vesper: " No, enough. Stop. I can barely walk as it is. If you hadn't noticed, it has been quite a while for me."

Bond:" For me, as well."

Vesper looks at him and bursts out laughing. James takes a little offense at this. Slightly defensive:

Bond (cont'd): " What are you laughing at?"

She snorts she's laughing so hard. She searches the covers:

Vesper: " Where's the camera? I need a picture of that face!"

Which makes James even more defensive, which she finds endlessly charming, seeing this small flaw in this otherwise almost perfect man.

Bond: " I meant since it meant something."

Vesper (laughing harder): " Oh, that's so much better."

She snaps a photo.

Bond: " You know, I do have a license to kill.."

Vesper: " Had. You gave it up for me, remember?"

Then the scene continues as we see in the film:

Vesper (as Bond makes a grab for her): " Ah! No, no..I have to get to the bank. What time is it? (finds watch) They'll just be opening. How much do you figure we need to float for a month?"

Bond: " I have plenty."

Vesper: " No, I intend to pay for my half of our aimless wanderings."

She finds her clothes on the floor and tugs it on. Bond props himself on the bed and studies her.

Bond: " You stopped wearing it. Your necklace."

Vesper: " Yes..it was time."

Bond: " Time enough to get over someone?"

Vesper: " To realise..(smiles)..that sometimes you can run away from the past."


Now, I don't know about you, but I think that first bit adds a bit to the relationship--just a dash of playfulness and also the shadings of some motivation for what she's about to do next. It also hints at a timeline of sorts regarding her relationship with her Algerian boyfriend, and when she may have last seen him, which gives us some clues as to when the the blackmail started.

All in all, I honestly don't think those bits would have added much to the final screen time, and rather than excess baggage, I think the film would have gained immeasurably by their inclusion.

Edited by prinmy, 24 March 2007 - 09:27 PM.