740 replies to this topic

[DaveBond21]

Couple of changes...

-Dr. No is my 2nd favorite Bond. I see it in pretty mediocre positions on fav lists and it's the least voted official Connery Bond in the poll.

Dr. No IS my #1 favorite.

-The Man with the Golden Gun is my FAVORITE Moore Bond. I'm aghast at how low of an opinion it has around here, i recall on an imdb poll it was the 2nd or 3rd most voted thankfully.

Moonraker is now my favorite Moore.

-Brosnan's 3 last Bonds are my least favorites (along with DAF) of the whole series, kind screwed up how his best was a Dalton movie.

I like Brozza's more than many of the 80s Bonds.

Interesting changes.

[OmarB]

Building off my previous post where I said I don't like most of the movies, I'll continue.

Thunderball? Really, I don't get it, explain to me why I should be so damn impressed.

Sean Connery? You kidding me, sure he was good but not nearly as good as the collective a*s-kissing he gets whenever Bond is mentioned. He had moments of brilliance but generally I find him dull.

Pierce Brosnan? You serious? Did this guy even deserve to be in the series, his version of the character amounted to a cabaret singer on a cruise doing a greatest hits set. Didn't ad a thing to it and those things he did do we done better before.

Dalton. I still don't understand how we lost him for Brosnan.

Oh, and lastly, Yes I do prefer some of the continuation books over Fleming's. Sure he's the master but still TSWLM, didn't like it one bit. That book is reason enough for me to slide in a continuation book into the mental list of the best Bond books.

Edited by OmarB, 05 December 2007 - 04:35 AM.

[Felix Heavier]

I'm hoping this opinion isn't too unorthodox...

I think Cary Elwes could've been a good, fun Bond. I think I would've rather seen him in place of Brosnan from GE to DAD.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I'm hoping this opinion isn't too unorthodox...

I think Cary Elwes could've been a good, fun Bond. I think I would've rather seen him in place of Brosnan from GE to DAD.

[Rene Mathis]

I think Christmas Jones was one of the best Bond girls of the 90's

[triviachamp]

Bond sucks, Bourne is better. How's that for unorthodox!

[J.C.D'Arc]

Anyone who hasn't read all of Ian Fleming's books should keep their opinions to themselves, since they don't know enough about it to pontificate on whether, for instance, Daniel Craig is better than Sean Connery or whether (for instance) Die Another Day is a better Bond film than Goldfinger. How's that for antagonistic, if not exactly unorthodox?

[Daddy Bond]

I think Christmas Jones was one of the best Bond girls of the 90's

Well, here's one. This will be NOTHING new and NO surprise to those who know me on this list, but...

This is orthodox truth, but not orthodox Bond...

I think Bond is an immoral jerk when it comes to women.

[rebeck]

I think Bond is pretty much the best thing that ever happened to these women. Granted, as a man I may not have any right to speak to that, but I think that most women would rather have a Bond for a brief affair than Phil Donahue for life.

Anyone who hasn't read all of Ian Fleming's books should keep their opinions to themselves, since they don't know enough about it to pontificate on whether, for instance, Daniel Craig is better than Sean Connery or whether (for instance) Die Another Day is a better Bond film than Goldfinger. How's that for antagonistic, if not exactly unorthodox?

That IS antagonistic, and so completely wrong.

No Bond fan has any more "right" to their opinion than any other, and anyone who thinks so should probably just switch to religious extremism instead.

[Daddy Bond]

I think Bond is pretty much the best thing that ever happened to these women. Granted, as a man I may not have any right to speak to that, but I think that most women would rather have a Bond for a brief affair than Phil Donahue for life.

Anyone who hasn't read all of Ian Fleming's books should keep their opinions to themselves, since they don't know enough about it to pontificate on whether, for instance, Daniel Craig is better than Sean Connery or whether (for instance) Die Another Day is a better Bond film than Goldfinger. How's that for antagonistic, if not exactly unorthodox?

That IS antagonistic, and so completely wrong.

No Bond fan has any more "right" to their opinion than any other, and anyone who thinks so should probably just switch to religious extremism instead.

Rebeck,

Just FYI, the point of this thread is to give your opinions about Bond that may go against the common flow of standard Bond opinion.

Also, you may want to take note that there's just a bit of irony in your reply to J.C. D'Arc in that you basically do to him exactly what you criticize him of doing. You criticize his right to voice an opinion. Ironic, n'est pas?

Hmmm? So it's either one night stands with Bond or marriage to Donahue? Mind you, while there are some women who like being used up and tossed aside like a piece of meaningless meat - most women (in their heart) want stability and long term love (to a guy who's not a jerk, who treats them really well and who is faithful to them). I know the male fantasy (for many) is that women want nothing more than to be used up and forgotten - and that if they can just be used by someone as cool as Bond then they'll be happy with their trophy (or whatever) and will have lived a useful and satisfied life. Most people are just not content that. Most women want to be valued more than that. Most women don't want to define their value by whether a particular cool guy has slept with them. If they DO define their value that way, then they're usually (deep down) pretty miserable people.

[rebeck]

I think Bond is pretty much the best thing that ever happened to these women. Granted, as a man I may not have any right to speak to that, but I think that most women would rather have a Bond for a brief affair than Phil Donahue for life.

Anyone who hasn't read all of Ian Fleming's books should keep their opinions to themselves, since they don't know enough about it to pontificate on whether, for instance, Daniel Craig is better than Sean Connery or whether (for instance) Die Another Day is a better Bond film than Goldfinger. How's that for antagonistic, if not exactly unorthodox?

That IS antagonistic, and so completely wrong.

No Bond fan has any more "right" to their opinion than any other, and anyone who thinks so should probably just switch to religious extremism instead.

Rebeck,

Just FYI, the point of this thread is to give your opinions about Bond that may go against the common flow of standard Bond opinion.

Also, you may want to take note that there's just a bit of irony in your reply to J.C. D'Arc in that you basically do to him exactly what you criticize him of doing. You criticize his right to voice an opinion. Ironic, n'est pas?

Hmmm? So it's either one night stands with Bond or marriage to Donahue? Mind you, while there are some women who like being used up and tossed aside like a piece of meaningless meat - most women (in their heart) want stability and long term love (to a guy who's not a jerk, who treats them really well and who is faithful to them). I know the male fantasy (for many) is that women want nothing more than to be used up and forgotten - and that if they can just be used by someone as cool as Bond then they'll be happy with their trophy (or whatever) and will have lived a useful and satisfied life. Most people are just not content that. Most women want to be valued more than that. Most women don't want to define their value by whether a particular cool guy has slept with them. If they DO define their value that way, then they're usually (deep down) pretty miserable people.

No, it's really not ironic at all. I wasn't denying him any opinion, just the belief that he gets to determine whose opinion counts. It's a subtle but kind of important difference. The same way my religion ends when it infringes on yours.

As for the woman part...I don't think I said all that about women wanting to be used and thrown away, maybe you can point me to that paragraph in my post. I just meant that women are drawn to exciting men like Bond, but they may not want to spend their life with someone like that, so a brief affair may be something they enjoy as well. I think it's okay if women enjoy sex too, don't you?

[DaveBond21]

I think Christmas Jones was one of the best Bond girls of the 90's

Well, here's one. This will be NOTHING new and NO surprise to those who know me on this list, but...

This is orthodox truth, but not orthodox Bond...

I think Bond is an immoral jerk when it comes to women.

Yes, that is more your personal opinion on morals, rather than anything to do with Bond. But you probably find that people are more and more immoral.

By the way, my wife & I slept together the night we met. So if anyone ever asks me "How soon in a relationship should you have sex with a woman?" I always answer, "Well, if you want it to last forever, make sure the sex is good straight away..."....

[Rene Mathis]

To me Christmas Jones perfectly reflects the whole 90's attitude to Bond women, she was smart, sexy, underdressed and didnt stick her rear end into a button etc.
She may be stuck in a film that cant decide if it wants to be OHMSS or TSWLM, but when the film finds TSWLM vibe she shines. I will admit she ruins the OHMSS vibe, but she looked nice anyway.

[Daddy Bond]

To me Christmas Jones perfectly reflects the whole 90's attitude to Bond women, she was smart, sexy, underdressed and didnt stick her rear end into a button etc.
She may be stuck in a film that cant decide if it wants to be OHMSS or TSWLM, but when the film finds TSWLM vibe she shines. I will admit she ruins the OHMSS vibe, but she looked nice anyway.

Yes, however, I think that the objection most have is her acting ability. This is what made her unconvincing.

[HH007]

To me Christmas Jones perfectly reflects the whole 90's attitude to Bond women, she was smart, sexy, underdressed and didnt stick her rear end into a button etc.
She may be stuck in a film that cant decide if it wants to be OHMSS or TSWLM, but when the film finds TSWLM vibe she shines. I will admit she ruins the OHMSS vibe, but she looked nice anyway.

Yes, however, I think that the objection most have is her acting ability. This is what made her unconvincing.

Though for me it's a mix of Richards' sub par acting ability and her character being poorly written in general. This is my opinion, of course, which anyone is free to disagree with.

[Mr. Blofeld]

To me Christmas Jones perfectly reflects the whole 90's attitude to Bond women, she was smart, sexy, underdressed and didnt stick her rear end into a button etc.
She may be stuck in a film that cant decide if it wants to be OHMSS or TSWLM, but when the film finds TSWLM vibe she shines. I will admit she ruins the OHMSS vibe, but she looked nice anyway.

Yes, however, I think that the objection most have is her acting ability. This is what made her unconvincing.

Though for me it's a mix of Richards' sub par acting ability and her character being poorly written in general. This is my opinion, of course, which anyone is free to disagree with.

She's good at comedy, though; just check out Scary Movie 3.

"She broke her weiner?"

[Daddy Bond]

I think Bond is pretty much the best thing that ever happened to these women. Granted, as a man I may not have any right to speak to that, but I think that most women would rather have a Bond for a brief affair than Phil Donahue for life.

Anyone who hasn't read all of Ian Fleming's books should keep their opinions to themselves, since they don't know enough about it to pontificate on whether, for instance, Daniel Craig is better than Sean Connery or whether (for instance) Die Another Day is a better Bond film than Goldfinger. How's that for antagonistic, if not exactly unorthodox?

That IS antagonistic, and so completely wrong.

No Bond fan has any more "right" to their opinion than any other, and anyone who thinks so should probably just switch to religious extremism instead.

Rebeck,

Just FYI, the point of this thread is to give your opinions about Bond that may go against the common flow of standard Bond opinion.

Also, you may want to take note that there's just a bit of irony in your reply to J.C. D'Arc in that you basically do to him exactly what you criticize him of doing. You criticize his right to voice an opinion. Ironic, n'est pas?

Hmmm? So it's either one night stands with Bond or marriage to Donahue? Mind you, while there are some women who like being used up and tossed aside like a piece of meaningless meat - most women (in their heart) want stability and long term love (to a guy who's not a jerk, who treats them really well and who is faithful to them). I know the male fantasy (for many) is that women want nothing more than to be used up and forgotten - and that if they can just be used by someone as cool as Bond then they'll be happy with their trophy (or whatever) and will have lived a useful and satisfied life. Most people are just not content that. Most women want to be valued more than that. Most women don't want to define their value by whether a particular cool guy has slept with them. If they DO define their value that way, then they're usually (deep down) pretty miserable people.

No, it's really not ironic at all. I wasn't denying him any opinion, just the belief that he gets to determine whose opinion counts. It's a subtle but kind of important difference. The same way my religion ends when it infringes on yours.

As for the woman part...I don't think I said all that about women wanting to be used and thrown away, maybe you can point me to that paragraph in my post. I just meant that women are drawn to exciting men like Bond, but they may not want to spend their life with someone like that, so a brief affair may be something they enjoy as well. I think it's okay if women enjoy sex too, don't you?

That was my point. Nowhere does he state that he believed he could determine which opinions count. So, yes, there was irony in that you were both expressing negative opinions about other people expressing opinions.

Next, if you re-read my post, you will note that I do not assert that you said this of all women. I repeatedly used qualifying terms like "some" and "most" so as to make sure that I did not imply that you were saying this of all women. Many women find marriage more thrilling than an affair, and find maximum enjoyment within a faithful marriage. While some find men like Bond exciting, many find a faithful husband far more exciting.

Of course men and women should enjoy sex just as much - within marriage. Those are not my boundaries. Those are the boundaries God set. While many choose to ignore those boundaries and set up their own standards - He does promise that He will hold everyone to account on the day of judgment for violating those boundaries - unless they seek forgiveness on His terms first. If you have any other comments, please feel free to send me a personal email so we don't bog down this thread and get off topic. I know I'm kindof the oddball on this topic on the list - but I'm okay with that.

[OmarB]

Anyone who hasn't read all of Ian Fleming's books should keep their opinions to themselves, since they don't know enough about it to pontificate on whether, for instance, Daniel Craig is better than Sean Connery or whether (for instance) Die Another Day is a better Bond film than Goldfinger. How's that for antagonistic, if not exactly unorthodox?

I'm with you man. Read the books then I'll listen to what you have to say.

[Daddy Bond]

Anyone who hasn't read all of Ian Fleming's books should keep their opinions to themselves, since they don't know enough about it to pontificate on whether, for instance, Daniel Craig is better than Sean Connery or whether (for instance) Die Another Day is a better Bond film than Goldfinger. How's that for antagonistic, if not exactly unorthodox?

I'm with you man. Read the books then I'll listen to what you have to say.

I've been reading through some of the books. Which in your opinion are the best in the series?

With that said, someone can have definite opinions about the films w/o having read the books, although less informed regarding the official Bond canon.

[DaveBond21]

While some find men like Bond exciting, many find a faithful husband far more exciting.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

I think everyone can have a decade of Bonds or Bond girls but ultimately settle down with a nice guy or girl for marriage and kids. That's what our friends and us have all done.

I think each to their own, in general though. Everyone should believe what they want and as long as they don't try to make other people believe something they don't already, it's all fine with me.

[Dr. Tynan]

Anyone who hasn't read all of Ian Fleming's books should keep their opinions to themselves, since they don't know enough about it to pontificate on whether, for instance, Daniel Craig is better than Sean Connery or whether (for instance) Die Another Day is a better Bond film than Goldfinger. How's that for antagonistic, if not exactly unorthodox?

You seem very angry, but I suppose your post is correct.

[Rene Mathis]

To me Christmas Jones perfectly reflects the whole 90's attitude to Bond women, she was smart, sexy, underdressed and didnt stick her rear end into a button etc.
She may be stuck in a film that cant decide if it wants to be OHMSS or TSWLM, but when the film finds TSWLM vibe she shines. I will admit she ruins the OHMSS vibe, but she looked nice anyway.

Yes, however, I think that the objection most have is her acting ability. This is what made her unconvincing.

Fair enough, but she was never hired for her acting ability to start with (the scene in Wild Things got her the job). If you accept that she was just hired to play the role of the t*ts at the end, i think she did a wonderful job.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

She may be stuck in a film that cant decide if it wants to be OHMSS or TSWLM

That's a very good description of TWINE. Except I would probably say it can't decide if it's OHMSS or AVTAK. I've also said it's a little like LTK meets MR. I wish it would have taken a stand one way or another. CR's relative brilliance has really made TWINE look shallow by comparison.

[Rene Mathis]

She may be stuck in a film that cant decide if it wants to be OHMSS or TSWLM

That's a very good description of TWINE. Except I would probably say it can't decide if it's OHMSS or AVTAK. I've also said it's a little like LTK meets MR. I wish it would have taken a stand one way or another. CR's relative brilliance has really made TWINE look shallow by comparison.

To me TWINE was the warm up go so that the producers (re Babs) knew they could handle making a serious spy thriller again. Unfortunately it came out in '99 when the world wanted another TSWLM, light hearted film.
To me the two halfs are excellent in their own rights, its when they have to be joined together that makes TWINE a rather odd film, it just doesnt work as a whole.

[DaveBond21]

Hey, criticising TWINE is not unorthodox.

I like TWINE, especially the PTS which is the best of the lot.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

She may be stuck in a film that cant decide if it wants to be OHMSS or TSWLM

That's a very good description of TWINE. Except I would probably say it can't decide if it's OHMSS or AVTAK. I've also said it's a little like LTK meets MR. I wish it would have taken a stand one way or another. CR's relative brilliance has really made TWINE look shallow by comparison.

To me TWINE was the warm up go so that the producers (re Babs) knew they could handle making a serious spy thriller again. Unfortunately it came out in '99 when the world wanted another TSWLM, light hearted film.
To me the two halfs are excellent in their own rights, its when they have to be joined together that makes TWINE a rather odd film, it just doesnt work as a whole.

Of course, TWINE isn't helped by Brosnan's "emoting" and heavy handed wipe the girl's tears from her eyes on a computer scenes as well as the overly melodramatic writing. I'd rather Bond turn into Buck Rogers again a la MR before turning into some soap opera dolt again. TWINE would probably best thought of as your described, a warm up to CR.

[rebeck]

But the third act scenes between Bond and Vesper weren't melodramatic?? It's all a matter of opinion. I didn't find myself moved at all by Vesper's fate, period. It was startling in its darkness, but not moving. OHMSS was geuninely moving, and in TWINE I found that Apted knew how to make small moments like the computer screen and when Electra freaks out in the avalanche genuinely moving in the context of the moment. The CR stuff left me ice cold. Campbell is after all the same guy who directed the most embarrassingly soap-operaish scene in the series in my opinion, that god-awful GE beach scene... "No, it's what keeps you alone!" I was literally cringing and shrinking down in my seat on that one. Or how about when that awful actress in LTK (I can't even remember her name) says "I love him!". Or the soggy scenes with D'abo in TLD. Nope, TWINE is just fine by me. It was exactly the mix of the slightly darker, more grounded plotline and the moments of Bondian extravagance that makes that movie work for me. If they had kept the director and in that same style, DAD would have been a whole lot better that's for sure.

And I'll take Brosnan's emoting over Craig's dead empty stare any day of the week.

Back to unorthodox opinions: CR has most of the Bondian fun sucked right out of it.

Edited by rebeck, 07 December 2007 - 05:56 AM.

[Rene Mathis]

Hey, criticising TWINE is not unorthodox.

But defending it on these boards sure seems to be, i was quite suprised when i stumbled around these forums to see the level of hatred for TWINE, sure its got a lot of problems, but i like to think of it as an Artistic Failure, rather than dog

[rebeck]

Leaves me absolutely mystified, Rene. It's the only Bond film from the last twenty years that I can watch again and again and always enjoy. I guess it's just like the Craig true believers cannot fathom how I don't like CR (the finished work not the script). Who can explain these Grand Canyon gulfs between tastes?

[Rene Mathis]

Leaves me absolutely mystified, Rene. It's the only Bond film from the last twenty years that I can watch again and again and always enjoy. I guess it's just like the Craig true believers cannot fathom how I don't like CR (the finished work not the script). Who can explain these Grand Canyon gulfs between tastes?

Lol, i gotta admit i cannot fathom how you dont like CR, to me the film is perfection (only flaw i can find with it is that it didnt open with dots, wouldve loved that, but it is a very fanwankery complaint)