62 replies to this topic

[DavidSomerset]

If Le Chiffre has to be stopped at all costs and he has to lose all his money at the casino, then why should M send Bond to the casino? Why doesnt she (or he in the novel) send the world champion at Bacarrat ( or Texas Hold em Poker in movie) to the casino? I recall that this is what the Peter Sellers spoof of CR was all about.
Is there any specific reason that only an MI6 agent have to be the person who make Le Chiffre lose his money?
I have read CR once about 2 years back and hence I seemed to have to forgotten this point.
Casino Royale Plot Hole perhaps...

[Publius]

I'd say at least part of the reason (aside from making for a cool plot ) is because it's all but impossible to have a "static" world champion in a game like Texas Hold 'em. If you're good enough to consistently play with the "giants" of poker, you're as much of a definite champ as you can be, and as would be needed for this mission. The rest is luck of the draw.

Also, maybe the clientele of this particular casino consists of the flashy and conceited rich, with competitive professionals rarely if ever seen, and as such only an unknown government agent could be relied upon to not frighten off Le Chiffre.

[Zographos]

A professional poker player isn't trained to defend himself against violent criminals. Should Le Chiffre want his money back (which he does), the poker player would be in a bit of a bind.

Edit: And with baccarat, there's really no such thing as a world champion. Unless you're the banker, the game is very straightforward and it's easy to play flawlessly.

Edited by Zographos, 25 September 2006 - 04:03 AM.

[Publius]

A professional poker player isn't trained to defend himself against violent criminals. Should Le Chiffre want his money back (which he does), the poker player would be in a bit of a bind.

Oh yeah, that is kind of an important detail to remember, huh?

[Shrublands]

Well, with Le Chiffre being so desperate (not to mention ruthless) he is bound to make an attempt or two on his opponent

Edited by Shrublands, 25 September 2006 - 04:16 AM.

[Broadsword]

Bond could have simply been there as a body guard to the opponent. Non?

[Shrublands]

Bond could have simply been there as a body guard to the opponent. Non?

As it turns out, the player would have needed more than just having a bodyguard to hand, so they were right to send Bond.

[DaveBond21]

Can someone please move this to the Spoilers thread?


Also, can we please not talk about the plot or spoilers in the main CR forum? There is a separate area for spoilers, and some of us do not want to know anything about CR before we see it.


Thanks....

[Double-Oh-Zero]

Well, given that it's a matter of international security, with the stakes being the funding of terrorism, I doubt MI6 would want to simply send in a champion poker player. As Zographos already said, if Le Chiffre were to fall out "a bit" with the person MI6 assigns to the mission (such as that bit in the novel with Le Chiffre's henchman*) the player in question would have to handle themselves accordingly.

*I'll put it into spoiler tags in case any one hasn't read it and doesn't want it ruined...

Spoiler

The bit where one of Le Chiffre's henchman puts a gun disguised as a cane to Bond's back during a crucial point in the game and threatens to kill him if he doesn't lose the hand; Bond responds by throwing himself and his chair backwards, thus breaking the gun.

[Shrublands]

Bond could have simply been there as a body guard to the opponent. Non?

As it turns out, the player would have needed more than just having a bodyguard to hand, so they were right to send Bond.

Two examples of this are:-

[spoiler]
At one stage, he is poisoned right at the Poker table.

Secondly, the player himself must put a code into the electronic money transfer device at the commence of the game. So, if you had a mind to do so, you could always torture the player until he tells you the code. In the case of the film

[MarcAngeDraco]

It would be unlikely that Le Chiffe would allow a world champion poker player to enter his private game, eh?...

[DamnCoffee]

does the line "Your the Best player in the service" mean anything

[Vauxhall]

does the line "Your the Best player in the service" mean anything

Yes, but the point that the original poster was making was that whilst Bond may be the best player in the service, surely it would be better to send a professional poker player to defeat Le Chiffre. The argument is that whilst a professional may be better at poker, he wouldn't be able to defend himself in the same way as Bond would.

[Icephoenix]

Also, who is to say that just because Bond's never signed up for a world-ranking-poker-tournament that he's just not as good as those who do? Or even the winner?

[sharpshooter]

Very good reply Icephoenix. Bond goes under the radar, allowed to enter the competition - but unknown to them he can defend himself capably, and play poker extremely well.

[agentforhire]

If you wanted play devil's advocate, you could question why M would send her least experienced 00 agent to beat Le Chiffre.

Considering the dangerous stakes, you could argue M would most likely send a more experienced 00 to challenge Le Chiffre. This is where the producers and Martin Campbell have been slightly misleading stating Fleming's Casino Royale is Bond Begins - his formative years. It's not. Bond was a reasonably experienced 00 in Fleming's first Bond novel so there was no inconsistency having him challenge Le Chiffre. Even if Bond is the best poker player in the 00 division (and when would he get the time to play so much poker? ), he's the least experienced. In that respect, M was taking a big chance with Bond.

[Mister Asterix]

Very simple. A professional poker player would be literally dead before the game was through.

[marktmurphy]

Also, who is to say that just because Bond's never signed up for a world-ranking-poker-tournament that he's just not as good as those who do? Or even the winner?

Well maybe, but from M's point of view you can either get hold of someone who you know is the best poker player in the world or someone who hypothetically might be if he ever entered a contest, but who hasn't actually put in the same amount of practise and isn't a professional poker player. Which would you go for if you absolutely had to win a poker game?

Very simple. A professional poker player would be literally dead before the game was through.

If he had Bond as a bodyguard, would he definitely? If you were M, had to have a poker game won and were playing the odds, would you send a professional poker player with a professional killer as bodyguard; or would you send a professional killer who happens to be quite good at poker?

[jaguar007]

If you wanted play devil's advocate, you could question why M would send her least experienced 00 agent to beat Le Chiffre.

Considering the dangerous stakes, you could argue M would most likely send a more experienced 00 to challenge Le Chiffre. This is where the producers and Martin Campbell have been slightly misleading stating Fleming's Casino Royale is Bond Begins - his formative years. It's not. Bond was a reasonably experienced 00 in Fleming's first Bond novel so there was no inconsistency having him challenge Le Chiffre. Even if Bond is the best poker player in the 00 division (and when would he get the time to play so much poker? ), he's the least experienced. In that respect, M was taking a big chance with Bond.

Yes, but only experienced agents get promoted to 00 status. Its not like M is sending a newly promoted 00 to save the planet from an evil meglomaniac bent on world dominiation from his hollowed out volcano while using his big "laser beam" in the sky

Edited by jaguar007, 25 September 2006 - 02:52 PM.

[Skudor]

Well, giving an enemy of the Crown a chance of doubling his money is a plot hole so large that it's best ignored. It makes for a cool plot, however. M mentions that Bond is the best Baccarat /Poker player in the service, hence he is the one sent to face Le Chiffre.

[Publius]

If you wanted play devil's advocate, you could question why M would send her least experienced 00 agent to beat Le Chiffre.

Considering the dangerous stakes, you could argue M would most likely send a more experienced 00 to challenge Le Chiffre. This is where the producers and Martin Campbell have been slightly misleading stating Fleming's Casino Royale is Bond Begins - his formative years. It's not. Bond was a reasonably experienced 00 in Fleming's first Bond novel so there was no inconsistency having him challenge Le Chiffre. Even if Bond is the best poker player in the 00 division (and when would he get the time to play so much poker? ), he's the least experienced. In that respect, M was taking a big chance with Bond.

Yes, but only experienced agents get promoted to 00 status. Its not like M is sending a newly promoted 00 to save the planet from an evil meglomaniac bent on world dominiation from his hollowed out volcano while using his big "laser beam" in the sky

Yeah, basically the 00 just means he's proven capable of killing people, is now allowed to in the course of a mission, and is sent on more dangerous ones. This fits in perfectly with Casino Royale.

There'll be far better plot holes to tear apart come November, I'm sure.

[jaguar007]

If Le Chiffre has to be stopped at all costs and he has to lose all his money at the casino, then why should M send Bond to the casino? Why doesnt she (or he in the novel) send the world champion at Bacarrat ( or Texas Hold em Poker in movie) to the casino? I recall that this is what the Peter Sellers spoof of CR was all about.
Is there any specific reason that only an MI6 agent have to be the person who make Le Chiffre lose his money?
I have read CR once about 2 years back and hence I seemed to have to forgotten this point.
Casino Royale Plot Hole perhaps...

Well the real reason M sends Bond instead of a world champion is because

WITHOUT BOND WE WOULDN'T HAVE A STINKIN' BOOK/MOVIE

[Mister Asterix]

Very simple. A professional poker player would be literally dead before the game was through.

If he had Bond as a bodyguard, would he definitely? If you were M, had to have a poker game won and were playing the odds, would you send a professional poker player with a professional killer as bodyguard; or would you send a professional killer who happens to be quite good at poker?

Knowing James Bond stories, I’d have to say yes. And then Bond would have to take over the game and he’d be right back to what we have now. Plus one dead poker player.

[DamnCoffee]

If he had Bond as a bodyguard, would he definitely? If you were M, had to have a poker game won and were playing the odds, would you send a professional poker player with a professional killer as bodyguard; or would you send a professional killer who happens to be quite good at poker?

lol i agree with you there better risking one life instead of two

[Tuxedo]

Ahem, it is fiction isn

[deth]

She sends him because he's James Bond. He can do ANYTHING better than other people. his only weakness is krypto..... wait....

[Harmsway]

Every Bond story ever has had more holes than a slice of Swiss cheese, and CASINO ROYALE is no different.

[bond_girl_double07]

You'd have to tell the pro the details of the mission (which MI-6 can't do..)

Plus since Bond isn't a professional, Le Chiffre would be much more likely to bet large amounts of money (Bond is like a shark in the story)

Plus M knows how much Bond likes to gamble

[marktmurphy]

Every Bond story ever has had more holes than a slice of Swiss cheese, and CASINO ROYALE is no different.

Well obviously, but it's still fun to point them out. I'd agree that the spoof probably is stronger on this bit of the plot!

[RevolveR]

does the line "Your the Best player in the service" mean anything

In addition to this and the other things that have been said, you don't send Joe Blow World Poker Champion to a high stakes game playing against a terrorist. Years of training and experience would go in to preparing someone for a situation such as this. Come on. Plus, M realizes that if it doesn't all work out with the game, perhaps an assassin that is trained to kill could simply eliminate the enemy. If we're going to pretend it's all real, then we must take a realistic approach to the plot (or as realistic as possible).