132 replies to this topic

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Goldeneye is one of those movies I just couldn't see what all the hoopla was all about. Personally, I think in the advent of the Arnolds, Stallones, Willisis and Van Damms, people, especially Bond fans were way to excited and even more forgiving for GE as it had a 6 year absence. People thought Bond was dead and when he returned in the form of Brosnan, people rejoiced. I didn't and I was only 10 years old at the time BUT I knew enough about Bond and how I expected a Bond film to play out.

You have wisdom beyond your years, double o ego.

The PTS. What the hell?? The bungee jump was fantastic but lacked the bad a rse execution of the parachute jump in TSWLM then, everything goes down hill from there. In fact, the moment I realised Brosnan was miscast was the moment Sean Bean appeared. Bean had the coldness in his eyes as he killed and even the way he moved was a lot more swift and Bond-like. He should have been Bond. Upto the point where Bond starts shooting the canisters and hops onto the assembly line and hauls his a rse out of there, he came off as rookie-ish. The icing on the proverbial cake was when Bond now hops onto a bike and zooms after a plane and proceeds to then, not only free fall without a parachute after it but to then make it inside the cockpit and gain control, escaping death and flying the plane up, up and away.

Then we are forced to bare witness to a rather embarrasing scene where the notion of Bond's existence and relevance in a post cold war and PC world have us in a choke hold. I think the film's biggest crime is it's inconsistency. We have Bond on the verge of apologising for who he is and yet, it's his old tricks of the trade that is on display in full effect, being used to ultimately save the world.

The characters were mediocre. I never cared for Wade, he was useless and any comic relief he was intended to bring fell flat. The Russian defence minister was fantastic. I found Dench's M rather inept, with the whole, "My sources say the GE satellite can't possibly exist" rubbish to be just that. Rubbish. Then there was that rather stupid exchange of identifying and explaining what an EMP was. Huh?? I was 10 years old and I knew what an EMP was and this is something that was heavily made aware of back in the 40s and here we are, in a post cold war world and we have Brosnan feeling as though he's flexing his cerebral dexterity muscles by giving us a Collins dictionary definition of what an EMP is. Urgh!
Onnatop was crazy and a tad too OTT. However, credit to Famke for showing such range and enthusiasm, it's almost hard to imagine she's the same Dr Jean Grey in the X-men movies. Bean's villainous 006 was great. He imo actually had the best dialogue through out the whole movie but was ruined by the fact that his character who is supposed to know Bond so well, routinely under-estimated him. Valentine Sukofski was a great characetr and shamefully over shadowed Brosnan. In fact, Brosnan being over shadowed was a regular occurance in the movie and that's primarily because when it came to acting, he was outclassed by each and every one of his co-stars. Brosnan was just coasting along, saved by the fact that he WAS Bond.

Bond's dialogue and delivery was pathetic. One could see that not once did he ever try to emmerse himself and allow himself to actually become Bond. It's quite clear he was content with just running around pretending to be Bond. His delivery of the name introduction is the worst in the series and where he really FAILED at delivering the line was in TWINE during the escape from then underground cavern with Dr. Christmas Jones...but that's for another review.

Then, there's this business with Brosnan feeling the need to blow the last words out of his mouth through his nose. Why? I never ever understood why he did that through out his entire run as Bond.
Anyway, Brosnan just tried too hard to replicate what had been done before instead of making Bond his own and even replicating what had been done, he failed at miserably. Lazenby pretty much aped Connery and he still to some extent not only made the role his own but he did a damn good job overall, especially when one considers his lack of acting experience. It's pretty clear Brosnan tried to ape the charm of Moore but inevitably came up short (cheesy Brosnan-esque pun intended).

The action overall again was mediocre. Brosnan running around as though he has a stick up his bum, firing guns with his lips pushed out like he's "modelling for, just for men", the hand to hand combat with 006 could have been better but 006's death again was somewhat of a joke. That fall should have killed him instantly. Overall, there were way too many guns firing and explosions for a film about a secret agent. There was no tact, no stealth, it was all, "hey look at me! I'm James Bond now now watch me do this!" Urgh!! Don't even get me started on the tank scene. Everything just seemed so, generic.

Natalya was a good Bond girl but forgettable, Borris was entertaining enough and as for the humour, the only time I laughed was when Onnatop told Bond she wouldn't lose any sleep over him not calling or what ever the convo in the car was about as she pulled up to the statue grave yard, only for Bond to apply his infamouse judo chop to the neck and reply, "sweet dreams". It's not that funny but I had to find something legitimate to laugh at.

It's almost hard to imagine that Campbell is the same guy who directed CR who directed the superiorly inferior GE.

I rate GE a 5/10. I give it props for crossing the confines of the cold war era but the film overall didn't seem to know what it was doing or what it wanted to be. Besides that and the fact that the entire Brosnan era made a killing at the BO, other than that, the Brosnan era is pretty forgettable. In fact, I think more people remember DAD more so than any other Brosnan film for 3 reasons, Halle Berry, the invisible car and of course, just how awful the film was.

I don't hate Brosnan and I don't hate his Bond, I just have a low opinion of his era and tenure and feel that he never ever once really fought to step up to the plate to embrace the role. Instead he settled for the cheques. GE had potential, it shows in various parts of the movie but really, Brosnan looked like a middle aged kid running around in a Bond-inspired theme park. Shame.

Excellently written review. Folks have some heavy criticisms of DAD, but a lot of elements fans disliked about DAD existed throught Brosnan's tenure starting with GE, e.g., cheesey dialogue, fake looking SFX, odd mixture of the silly and the serious. At least in DAD, Brosnan's Bond acted his toughest and most confident which is a large reason it's my favorite of his 4.

The Adventures of Natalya and her Sidekick James Bond

I actually relished that Natalya had her own plotline and her character introduced to us and developed somewhat way before she meets Bond. She wasn't there just for eye candy.

If you read one of the earlier drafts of TWINE, you will see that movie almost became THE ADVENTURES OF ELEKTRA KING, CHRISTMAS JONES, M, and their SIDEKICK JAMES BOND. According to some literature I read, Brosnan was unhappy with the beefed-up female parts because it drew attention from him. They couldn't really rewrite the M-Elektra plotline because it was at the heart of the film, so they basically made the following changes to Christmas Jones to make Bond more in-focus:

1. Originally, Christmas is the one that figures out that the plutonium was stolen to make a bigger, and better Bomb. In the film, they delay this realization until the Istanbul safe house scene, and switch it to Bond.

2. In the Pipeline COntrol Room Center, it is her that heads out to diffuse the bomb. She asks for help from her fellow IDA physicists, but they all look embarassed and afraid. Instead, Bond offers to help her. - In the film, Bond heads out, and she follows.

3. Christmas is the one be suspicious when Zukovsky mentions that submarine. She grills him about it and figures out that Elektra wants to use the reactor - in the film, it's Bond who figures this out - and Christmas agrees.

4. In the final scene in the reactor, it is Christmas who open the hatch to flood the reactor. Bond is busy fleeing, but she yells at him to come back and help her. - In the film, Christmas is still the one that realizes the reactor could spark and explode, but it is Bond who open the hatch to flood the reactor while telling Christmas to head up to the torpedo bay.

5. That last line about "X-mas coming once a year" was originally uttered by Christmas herself, but she says "You know, James, I think Christmas is coming early this year."

Anyhow, I can sort of understand why they had to rewrite Christmas's character somewhat. Bond was really starting to become a bystander in his own movie.

That same problem hurt the entire Brosnan-era. Bond was becoming a supporting character in his own films. One of the main things I love about Casino Royale is how Bond became the central character again for the first time post-Timothy Dalton. I loved how Solange and Vesper seemed more like pre-Brosnan era Bond girls in the tradition of Tatiana, Domino, Tracy, Solitaire, Andrea, Melina, Octopussy and Kara who complemented Bond very well rather than trying be female versions of him. If Barbara Broccoli wishes to produce movies where all the action and drama is driven exclusively by female characters, that's fine. She just need to do it on her non-Bond films. Bond needs to be the main hero in his own picture.


I'm glad to read TWINE did undergo those rewrites. Even though it's my least favorite Brosnan Bond film, it does have the virtue of not having him run across a female version of himself.

[Kristian]

Goldeneye is one of those movies I just couldn't see what all the hoopla was all about. Personally, I think in the advent of the Arnolds, Stallones, Willisis and Van Damms, people, especially Bond fans were way to excited and even more forgiving for GE as it had a 6 year absence. People thought Bond was dead and when he returned in the form of Brosnan, people rejoiced. I didn't and I was only 10 years old at the time BUT I knew enough about Bond and how I expected a Bond film to play out.

You have wisdom beyond your years, double o ego.

The PTS. What the hell?? The bungee jump was fantastic but lacked the bad a rse execution of the parachute jump in TSWLM then, everything goes down hill from there. In fact, the moment I realised Brosnan was miscast was the moment Sean Bean appeared. Bean had the coldness in his eyes as he killed and even the way he moved was a lot more swift and Bond-like. He should have been Bond. Upto the point where Bond starts shooting the canisters and hops onto the assembly line and hauls his a rse out of there, he came off as rookie-ish. The icing on the proverbial cake was when Bond now hops onto a bike and zooms after a plane and proceeds to then, not only free fall without a parachute after it but to then make it inside the cockpit and gain control, escaping death and flying the plane up, up and away.

Then we are forced to bare witness to a rather embarrasing scene where the notion of Bond's existence and relevance in a post cold war and PC world have us in a choke hold. I think the film's biggest crime is it's inconsistency. We have Bond on the verge of apologising for who he is and yet, it's his old tricks of the trade that is on display in full effect, being used to ultimately save the world.

The characters were mediocre. I never cared for Wade, he was useless and any comic relief he was intended to bring fell flat. The Russian defence minister was fantastic. I found Dench's M rather inept, with the whole, "My sources say the GE satellite can't possibly exist" rubbish to be just that. Rubbish. Then there was that rather stupid exchange of identifying and explaining what an EMP was. Huh?? I was 10 years old and I knew what an EMP was and this is something that was heavily made aware of back in the 40s and here we are, in a post cold war world and we have Brosnan feeling as though he's flexing his cerebral dexterity muscles by giving us a Collins dictionary definition of what an EMP is. Urgh!
Onnatop was crazy and a tad too OTT. However, credit to Famke for showing such range and enthusiasm, it's almost hard to imagine she's the same Dr Jean Grey in the X-men movies. Bean's villainous 006 was great. He imo actually had the best dialogue through out the whole movie but was ruined by the fact that his character who is supposed to know Bond so well, routinely under-estimated him. Valentine Sukofski was a great characetr and shamefully over shadowed Brosnan. In fact, Brosnan being over shadowed was a regular occurance in the movie and that's primarily because when it came to acting, he was outclassed by each and every one of his co-stars. Brosnan was just coasting along, saved by the fact that he WAS Bond.

Bond's dialogue and delivery was pathetic. One could see that not once did he ever try to emmerse himself and allow himself to actually become Bond. It's quite clear he was content with just running around pretending to be Bond. His delivery of the name introduction is the worst in the series and where he really FAILED at delivering the line was in TWINE during the escape from then underground cavern with Dr. Christmas Jones...but that's for another review.

Then, there's this business with Brosnan feeling the need to blow the last words out of his mouth through his nose. Why? I never ever understood why he did that through out his entire run as Bond.
Anyway, Brosnan just tried too hard to replicate what had been done before instead of making Bond his own and even replicating what had been done, he failed at miserably. Lazenby pretty much aped Connery and he still to some extent not only made the role his own but he did a damn good job overall, especially when one considers his lack of acting experience. It's pretty clear Brosnan tried to ape the charm of Moore but inevitably came up short (cheesy Brosnan-esque pun intended).

The action overall again was mediocre. Brosnan running around as though he has a stick up his bum, firing guns with his lips pushed out like he's "modelling for, just for men", the hand to hand combat with 006 could have been better but 006's death again was somewhat of a joke. That fall should have killed him instantly. Overall, there were way too many guns firing and explosions for a film about a secret agent. There was no tact, no stealth, it was all, "hey look at me! I'm James Bond now now watch me do this!" Urgh!! Don't even get me started on the tank scene. Everything just seemed so, generic.

Natalya was a good Bond girl but forgettable, Borris was entertaining enough and as for the humour, the only time I laughed was when Onnatop told Bond she wouldn't lose any sleep over him not calling or what ever the convo in the car was about as she pulled up to the statue grave yard, only for Bond to apply his infamouse judo chop to the neck and reply, "sweet dreams". It's not that funny but I had to find something legitimate to laugh at.

It's almost hard to imagine that Campbell is the same guy who directed CR who directed the superiorly inferior GE.

I rate GE a 5/10. I give it props for crossing the confines of the cold war era but the film overall didn't seem to know what it was doing or what it wanted to be. Besides that and the fact that the entire Brosnan era made a killing at the BO, other than that, the Brosnan era is pretty forgettable. In fact, I think more people remember DAD more so than any other Brosnan film for 3 reasons, Halle Berry, the invisible car and of course, just how awful the film was.

I don't hate Brosnan and I don't hate his Bond, I just have a low opinion of his era and tenure and feel that he never ever once really fought to step up to the plate to embrace the role. Instead he settled for the cheques. GE had potential, it shows in various parts of the movie but really, Brosnan looked like a middle aged kid running around in a Bond-inspired theme park. Shame.

Excellently written review. Folks have some heavy criticisms of DAD, but a lot of elements fans disliked about DAD existed throught Brosnan's tenure starting with GE, e.g., cheesey dialogue, fake looking SFX, odd mixture of the silly and the serious. At least in DAD, Brosnan's Bond acted his toughest and most confident which is a large reason it's my favorite of his 4.

The Adventures of Natalya and her Sidekick James Bond

I actually relished that Natalya had her own plotline and her character introduced to us and developed somewhat way before she meets Bond. She wasn't there just for eye candy.

If you read one of the earlier drafts of TWINE, you will see that movie almost became THE ADVENTURES OF ELEKTRA KING, CHRISTMAS JONES, M, and their SIDEKICK JAMES BOND. According to some literature I read, Brosnan was unhappy with the beefed-up female parts because it drew attention from him. They couldn't really rewrite the M-Elektra plotline because it was at the heart of the film, so they basically made the following changes to Christmas Jones to make Bond more in-focus:

1. Originally, Christmas is the one that figures out that the plutonium was stolen to make a bigger, and better Bomb. In the film, they delay this realization until the Istanbul safe house scene, and switch it to Bond.

2. In the Pipeline COntrol Room Center, it is her that heads out to diffuse the bomb. She asks for help from her fellow IDA physicists, but they all look embarassed and afraid. Instead, Bond offers to help her. - In the film, Bond heads out, and she follows.

3. Christmas is the one be suspicious when Zukovsky mentions that submarine. She grills him about it and figures out that Elektra wants to use the reactor - in the film, it's Bond who figures this out - and Christmas agrees.

4. In the final scene in the reactor, it is Christmas who open the hatch to flood the reactor. Bond is busy fleeing, but she yells at him to come back and help her. - In the film, Christmas is still the one that realizes the reactor could spark and explode, but it is Bond who open the hatch to flood the reactor while telling Christmas to head up to the torpedo bay.

5. That last line about "X-mas coming once a year" was originally uttered by Christmas herself, but she says "You know, James, I think Christmas is coming early this year."

Anyhow, I can sort of understand why they had to rewrite Christmas's character somewhat. Bond was really starting to become a bystander in his own movie.

That same problem hurt the entire Brosnan-era. Bond was becoming a supporting character in his own films. One of the main things I love about Casino Royale is how Bond became the central character again for the first time post-Timothy Dalton. I loved how Solange and Vesper seemed more like pre-Brosnan era Bond girls in the tradition of Tatiana, Domino, Tracy, Solitaire, Andrea, Melina, Octopussy and Kara who complemented Bond very well rather than trying be female versions of him. If Barbara Broccoli wishes to produce movies where all the action and drama is driven exclusively by female characters, that's fine. She just need to do it on her non-Bond films. Bond needs to be the main hero in his own picture.


I'm glad to read TWINE did undergo those rewrites. Even though it's my least favorite Brosnan Bond film, it does have the virtue of not having him run across a female version of himself.

Actually, I read that Michael Apted was the one that was pushing for beefed-up female roles. I think they achieved this. Elektra was obviously at the heart of teh story, and M's role was deeper and bigger than ever before. And in earlier drafts of the script, Christmas was more in the background. The rewrites made her spunkier, gave her more attitude and complexity (why is she avoiding those kind of questions?), and made her impact the plot (by unwittingly aiding Renard, and now having to make it all right).

At any rate, I think Christmas had the potential to be a great Bond girl. But Michael Apted was so focused on Elektra. And regarding Babs Broccoli, she's actually in favor of ALL characters in a Bond film being interesting, not just the women. She stated as much in BOND GIRLS ARE FOREVER - the book by Maryam D'Abo (Kara Milovy).

All in all, I prefer TWINE to the other Brosnan Bonds. I guess the women just feel more real to me when I watch them. I get that Christmas is avoiding something in her past, and feels that her beauty attracts too much unwanted attention, but she's also defiant enough not to hide it. I get that Elektra is complex and good and evil all at the same time, but the bit I love the most is when Bond says she must get chased all the time. She responds "Less often than you might think." This really struck a note with me. We think that all these hot supermodels get a lot of play, when in fact many men are intimidated by them. There was a study in a Psychology magazine where they said that beautiful people are actually very lonely. I like how the writers of TWINE attempted at least to add some humanity to the women of TWINE with these little lines that reflect how women are in real life: when women are hurt, they will often shut down a part of them and become evasive and/or defiant (Christmas), and they are not always pursued by everyone just because they are beautiful and rich (Elektra), and they still make emotional mistakes even if they are steely professionals (M).

Edited by Kristian, 06 October 2008 - 02:11 PM.

[DaveBond21]

After reading some of the more positive comments, I really am in the mood for Goldeneye right now. It's underrated by many I feel.

[Mister E]

Double o ego's review is spot on.

[Stephen Spotswood]

My main problem with Goldeneye is it felt like it was written for Timothy Dalton's brooding secret agent.

And after awhile Sean Bean's role degenerated into just admiring Bond's stunts, "That can't be done...that's impossible..." etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum.

[Stephen Spotswood]

I remember thinking at the time that Sean Bean seemed more James Bond like than Brosnan, and I didn't know at the time he was considered for the part. There was the whole James Bond can't be blond thing. That's what a lot of people used to shoot down the idea of Jason Connery as Bond, but from what little I've seen of him he wasn't much of an actor either. Bean had the terrific Sharpe's Men under his belt, and Connery replaced the dark brooding Michael Praed as Robin Hood, and seemed monotonous in the part. I later saw him in a biography, exagerrated presumably, about Ian Fleming that was a bore.

[BlackFire]

I'd give it a 9.

This was the very first Bond movie I saw and thought it was awesome -I mean, for a 1995 movie- also Brosnan is an awesome James Bond. At that age I didn't even mind about CGI -the Satellite- and the stunts were nice.

[Harmsway]

And in earlier drafts of the script, Christmas was more in the background.

Not quite true. She was much more active in some earlier drafts, which was later toned down once they realized that Bond had been pushed somewhat into the background as a result.

[Cruiserweight]

In the 6-7 range for me.

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

For me, it's the best James Bond movie yet (although I'm hoping Quantum Of Solace will overtake it )

The Pre-titles sequence is very different from other Bond movies, but different in a good way. To open with a stunt like the bungee-jump was a good move in my opinion. It was brilliant in its execution and its effectiveness. It showed there was going to be no messing about with this one, and it was going to be all action from the start. After this, we get that immortal line. OK, some of you don't like it, but I find the "forgot to knock" line hilarious and fitting with the injection of Moore's humour that the makers were obviously looking to put back into the films after Dalton's, more serious approach (which I loved by the way!) I liked the chemistry between Brozza and Bean, and when Alec is killed, the friendship has already been established and Bond's grief is definitely apparent. The one thing I didn't like about the pre-title sequence was the slightly cartoonish falling over of the Russian soldiers as they were shot. But this is only a minor problem. The whole sequence is action-packed, the way they were meant to be. The jump after the plane is unrealistic admitted, but if we start getting scientific on the Bond films, then pretty much all of them would have to be criticised! Even though my girlfriend laughs her off at this, I still keep my chin up when it happens and try and drown out either physic criticism or laughter!

It's also great to see the DB5 return. it's a nice touch and it allows the Bond films of the past to maintain a connection with the new Bond of the new world. It was a tough job to bring Bond into the new post-Cold War era, but I think the script accomplishes this perfectly.

The supporting cast is strong, particularly Robbie Coltrane's Zukovsky. Funny yet threatening, he's the kind of reluctant ally Bond needs in his films. I found Wade amusing, particularly the Russian scenes (although we could have done with out his far too personal delivery of the plane). Both Ourumov and Mishkin were interesting characters, played brilliantly. The scene where Ourumov murders Mishkin is fantastic, with Ourumov's cold lecture about enemies and his chilling cold blooded murder. To have a female M was another risk, but one that pays off, as I'm sure most of you will agree. She remains bossy and uptight like her predecessors, yet warmly funny with her "sarcasm" jibe at Tanner, followed by her jibe at Bond in the office. It was good to see this kind of chemistry between Bond and M, as the chemistry from the previous films could so easily have been lost. I found both Isabella Scorupco and Famke Janssen incredibly sexy and Scoruipco's emotional scenes were surprisingly convincing and her scene in the prison was very heartfelt. I did find the fact that Natalya knew how to use a gun slightly perplexing! Do they teach weaponry skills to computer programmers?! At least we never saw her fire it!

The action is the best of the series, coupled with an atmospheric soundtrack. The finale on the dish was one of the best physical fights of the series (save perhaps all of Lazenby's fights in OHMSS). Although the fall from the dish would kill an average human! This is the one fault I have with the finale. The best action scene was definitely the scene before the tank chase - Bond taking on an army of Russian soldiers and dispatching them in a way that only he can. True, it wasn't like Connery's stealthy approach, or Moore's slow shoot and pause, but it was still very much Bondian! Maybe it's just the action-film geek in me...

One of my favourite scenes of the series was the graveyard scene. Eerie, atmospheric and when Bond confronts Alec, quite emotional. From an acting perspective, this is probably Brosnan's highlight of the Bond series (given that his three films after this gave him very little to do acting wise). Perhaps it was because he was directed by the master, Martin Campbell, who should have done/should do some more Bond films.

It's my favourite movie of the series, not by miles, but still my favourite. I feel the action plays a big part in influencing my decision as this is what always swings a Bond movie for me. The bungee-jump, the Arkangel gun battle, the fight on the Manticore...the fight in the Russian prison, the tank chase, the train fight, the fight with Onatopp and the final battle. There's a whole lot of action, and yes, perhaps this covers the poor acting from Brosnan that so many people have tried to point out to me, but I still can't see

[DaveBond21]

Although the fall from the dish would kill an average human! This is the one fault I have with the finale

I never have a problem with this. It's not as if he gets up and starts walking back up the dish. It's fair to assume that he is concious but dying anyway, and potentially paralysed from the neck down.

Otherwise, I really enjoyed your review, nice work!

[Turn]

The supporting cast is strong, particularly Robbie Coltrane's Zukovsky. Funny yet threatening, he's the kind of reluctant ally Bond needs in his films. I found Wade amusing, particularly the Russian scenes (although we could have done with out his far too personal delivery of the plane).

You're mentioning of these two in the same paragraph leads me to wonder why we needed both in this film in that, at least in my view, they are essentially the same character, just one's a Russian and the other's an American. Both are played by heavy-set middle aged actors who make me actually wonder how they rose to the positions they are in.

I don't buy Zukovsky being threatening or powerful, just kind of a comic foil for Bond. Especially since he's played by Robbie Coltrane. At least Joe Don Baker had some action credentials on his resume.

Zukovsky's return didn't help matters any in TWINE, where he's the sole comic foil without Wade, which only confirms my view of him in GE.

Otherwise, I do find the rest of the cast of GE pretty solid.

[DaveBond21]

I don't buy Zukovsky being threatening or powerful, just kind of a comic foil for Bond. Especially since he's played by Robbie Coltrane. At least Joe Don Baker had some action credentials on his resume.

I assume that Robbie Coltrane was chosen from his role in tough drama series, Cracker.

I find the complete opposite. Coltrane has a history of playing tough serious characters and Joe Don Baker seems more like a comedian.

[Mister E]

Zukovsky's return didn't help matters any in TWINE, where he's the sole comic foil without Wade, which only confirms my view of him in GE.

I don't see how that confirms your beliefs of him in GE, it was a case of dumbing down a good character. Samething that happened to Jaws and Felix Leiter numerous times.

Anyway since we are the topic of GOLDENEYE, I recently bought the first draft with Dalton in mind. The biggest problem with this script was too many bloated action sequences, the final film did a good job toning them down and three of them actually ended up in THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH and DIE ANOTHER DAY. The sequence with buzz saw helicopters and the underground blast door scene ended up in the former. The attempt to destroy the Tempest, or Goldeneye as it was eventually called, ended up in the later. In terms of characterization, the script is fairly solid. Trevelyan is much older then Bond, he's in his 60's and he really doesn't have the personal motivation like he did in the final film. He just sees himself as a Czar and he wants to start his own empire. I found him an acceptable villian. Marina, who becomes Natalya, is still head strong but I found her less annoying in this script and she clearly feels guilt to help develop such a terrible weapon. Xenia is far less over the top, instead of strangling someone with her legs she uses her hands to induce a heart attack. Boris, who isn't Boris but I can't remember his name in the script at the moment, was written as an older man and Marina's mentor. Overall, I think after a good re-write, we could have gotten a better film then we had in GOLDENEYE.

[Turn]

Zukovsky's return didn't help matters any in TWINE, where he's the sole comic foil without Wade, which only confirms my view of him in GE.

I don't see how that confirms your beliefs of him in GE, it was a case of dumbing down a good character. Samething that happened to Jaws and Felix Leiter numerous times.

Basically, it confirms I never saw Zukovsky as a menacing gangster type who ever posed any threat to Bond whatsoever. TWINE took a character I never believe in to begin with and just stretched him further in that direction.

TWINE was supposed to be ultra serious, so the comic relief of Zukovsky drug that disaster down ever further.

True, they did dumb down Felix and Jaws, and sometimes the Mi6 staff as well. I don't think it ever damaged the series too much, though. I think the worst case of dumbing down a good character was making Marcus Brody into a buffoon in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

[Mister E]

Basically, it confirms I never saw Zukovsky as a menacing gangster type who ever posed any threat to Bond whatsoever.

He was never suppose to be a "menacing gangster type" at all. Bond even pointed out he had a sense of humor in GOLDENEYE, but he was no bufoon. He was one secound from blowing Bond's nuts off. Also, did you see that deleted scene with Zukovsky and the arms dealer ? That was a pretty funny/bad moment that showed he was no fool.

TWINE took a character I never believe in to begin with and just stretched him further in that direction.

Yes they exgerrated him but that doesn't make him less of character before just like they did with Bond himself after the early Connery films. They took the dry humor James Bond had and exagerrated it even further.

TWINE was supposed to be ultra serious, so the comic relief of Zukovsky drug that disaster down ever further.

Yes I agree.

True, they did dumb down Felix and Jaws, and sometimes the Mi6 staff as well. I don't think it ever damaged the series too much, though. I think the worst case of dumbing down a good character was making Marcus Brody into a buffoon in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

Well I took examples from the James Bond films since we are talking about Bond.

[DaveBond21]

TWINE was supposed to be ultra serious

Not according to Michael Apted, the director, in most interviews about the film. He said he looked forward to and indeed enjoyed the scene with Q and R. He also looked forward to the gadget side of things and how they would be first presented and then used. Good fun lines such as "The insurance company is never going to believe this" and it also features a fun Moneypenny scene.

and great line from M.....

Bond - "Construction isn't exactly my strong point".

M - "Quite the opposite in fact"


Plus, great gag with "The Clampers" during the boat chase at the start.
Especially as they weren't warned how soaked they'd get!! Cheeky.

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

Although the fall from the dish would kill an average human! This is the one fault I have with the finale

I never have a problem with this. It's not as if he gets up and starts walking back up the dish. It's fair to assume that he is concious but dying anyway, and potentially paralysed from the neck down.

Otherwise, I really enjoyed your review, nice work!

Good point DaveBond21, I guess I was just TRYING to be critical of a film that I hold in the highest regard

[PrinceKamalKhan]

After reading some of the more positive comments, I really am in the mood for Goldeneye right now. It's underrated by many I feel.

Don't worry, DaveBond21. Most of the reviews of GE are very good. I don't really think GE is underrated. Just like I don't think FRWL, GF, TSWLM, FYEO or CR are underrated mainly because the vast majority of reviews for these films are so overwhelmingly positive. The negative reviews are relatively low in number for these Bond films. And that doesn't mean I necessarily dislike these films. FRWL, GF and CR are all in my top 10 and TSWLM is very close to the top 10 for me. But I'd need to read a lot(and I do mean a lot) more negative reviews of these 6 films before I would consider any of them underrated.

My main problem with Goldeneye is it felt like it was written for Timothy Dalton's brooding secret agent.

There's a very good reason for that. It was.

I remember thinking at the time that Sean Bean seemed more James Bond like than Brosnan, and I didn't know at the time he was considered for the part. There was the whole James Bond can't be blond thing. That's what a lot of people used to shoot down the idea of Jason Connery as Bond, but from what little I've seen of him he wasn't much of an actor either. Bean had the terrific Sharpe's Men under his belt, and Connery replaced the dark brooding Michael Praed as Robin Hood, and seemed monotonous in the part. I later saw him in a biography, exagerrated presumably, about Ian Fleming that was a bore.

I've seen that pic. Imagine a Bond film set in WW2 and that's basically what it is. It's enjoyable but I doubt very accurate. A pre-stardom Kristin Scott Thomas plays his Tracy/Vesper type love interest. There's a Miss Moneypenny type he flirts with at the office. There's a Goldfinger-type Nazi main villain whose castle they assault like at the end of YOLT. And Fiona Fullerton and either Mary Stavin or a woman who amazingly resembles her play "Fleming girls."

The supporting cast is strong, particularly Robbie Coltrane's Zukovsky. Funny yet threatening, he's the kind of reluctant ally Bond needs in his films. I found Wade amusing, particularly the Russian scenes (although we could have done with out his far too personal delivery of the plane).

You're mentioning of these two in the same paragraph leads me to wonder why we needed both in this film in that, at least in my view, they are essentially the same character, just one's a Russian and the other's an American. Both are played by heavy-set middle aged actors who make me actually wonder how they rose to the positions they are in.

I don't buy Zukovsky being threatening or powerful, just kind of a comic foil for Bond. Especially since he's played by Robbie Coltrane. At least Joe Don Baker had some action credentials on his resume.

Zukovsky's return didn't help matters any in TWINE, where he's the sole comic foil without Wade, which only confirms my view of him in GE.

Which is another reason I consider the much maligned DAD as the best of the Brosnans. 007's allies(Falco, Chang, Raoul) are played more seriously in the tradition of 1960s allies like Jack Lord's Leiter, Tanaka, Draco and Kerim. Wade and Zukovsky are fun(at least in GE. Wade's annoying in TND.) in the J.W. Pepper tradition.

[broadshoulder]

Which is another reason I consider the much maligned DAD as the best of the Brosnans. 007's allies(Falco, Chang, Raoul) are played more seriously in the tradition of 1960s allies like Jack Lord's Leiter, Tanaka, Draco and Kerim. Wade and Zukovsky are fun(at least in GE. Wade's annoying in TND.) in the J.W. Pepper tradition.

Eh?

The above mentioned wernt serious allies they were just as shoddy as the rest of DAD.

Chang was an ally was he? The storytelling was so lax I didnt pick up on that. Falco was an embarassment. The kind of bullying American who Fleming used to send up in his novels - now being taken seriously. Thank god he wasnt a recurring character.

Raoul the Cuban contact worked but how could you go wrong with any of the scenes set in Cuba its just so atmospheric. Even Lee Tamahori couldnt mess up his scenes - though I bet he gave it a good go..

[tim partridge]

Some very entertaining reviews here!

I must say, GE is handsdown my favourite of the Broz era, but it is alarmingly uneven. Here are some quick negatives about the movie when I saw it in 95 and how I still see it now (in semi chronological order):

It was cool to see a CGI gunbarrel, but I vividly remember how clunking the accompanying music was for this intro, to the point of my friend sat next to me laughing "that was !" out loud.

The cliff jump was rubbish and completely at odds with the tone and mood of the opening. It didn't work dramatically and it looked really cheesy.

The NINE YEARS LATER thing seemed REALLY REALLY off in Bond movie, where the timeline is usually nonexistent.

As well choreographed and shot as it is, that bike gag during the car chase was NEVER EVER funny. It's like the forced titter you'd get from a headmaster watching his own school play, trying to encourage the parents to join in.

The "sex" scene was lame and promised too much, especially as during the mid90s every other big action film had nudity in it. Not erotic enough to in the slightest, which makes the admiral's death seem a bit off. Even Jamie Lee Curtis' lingerie dance suggested more in TRUE LIES.

Boris was a dated stereotype in 1990 (for both Russian comic relief and computer nerds) and the depiction of the internet felt as equally desperate as it was really out of touch for the time. Like the cliff jump, Boris was totally at odds with the tone of the rest of the film.

Meddings' unfinished miniature plane crash took alot of drama out of the Severneya melt down.

The music when Bond's plane lands at St Petersburg sounds like it came off a CDROM click and point adventure.

Too many silly, smutty, BEANO-hunour innuendos with Moneypenny and Xenia.

The hook up with Q felt like a half assed dress rehearsal.

There's a lot of really stale, heavy, Russian military Cold War leftover politics that dogs the film down in tedious self importance. Contrasting this with the BEANO smut liners, unfunny Boris and the cartoon cliff jump it just shows how randomly over the map and inconsistent the tone of the film is. The dreary sequences with Mishkin in St Petersburg especially are so jarringly at odds with Boris' pen-twirling jokes, you wonder whether Martin Campbell made two separate films that got plonked together.

There are way too many loud explosions, and every other second, littered throughout the movie. It never impresses like this.

Often the film feels way too much like a personal vendetta movie despite the fact it has all of the dramatic content of YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE or AVTAK rather than OHMSS (or even LTK).

On the subject of GE taking itself too seriously, I always felt everything surrounding Bean's 006 (and the relationship with 007) took itself way too seriously, and it contributes to the uneasy lead weight factor.

How did 006 get that tiny scar on his face?

Did the bad guy really need a big exploding villain's lair at the end of the film?

The Janus Satellite obviously being the Puerto Rico telescope thing was too lazy for me to stretch my imagination.



When you sit down and think about it, GE has an awful script. Now I'd love to see TND albeit from Campbell and the same directorial tone as GE.

[Kristian]

Some very entertaining reviews here!

I must say, GE is handsdown my favourite of the Broz era, but it is alarmingly uneven. Here are some quick negatives about the movie when I saw it in 95 and how I still see it now (in semi chronological order):

It was cool to see a CGI gunbarrel, but I vividly remember how clunking the accompanying music was for this intro, to the point of my friend sat next to me laughing "that was !" out loud.

The cliff jump was rubbish and completely at odds with the tone and mood of the opening. It didn't work dramatically and it looked really cheesy.

The NINE YEARS LATER thing seemed REALLY REALLY off in Bond movie, where the timeline is usually nonexistent.

As well choreographed and shot as it is, that bike gag during the car chase was NEVER EVER funny. It's like the forced titter you'd get from a headmaster watching his own school play, trying to encourage the parents to join in.

The "sex" scene was lame and promised too much, especially as during the mid90s every other big action film had nudity in it. Not erotic enough to in the slightest, which makes the admiral's death seem a bit off. Even Jamie Lee Curtis' lingerie dance suggested more in TRUE LIES.

Boris was a dated stereotype in 1990 (for both Russian comic relief and computer nerds) and the depiction of the internet felt as equally desperate as it was really out of touch for the time. Like the cliff jump, Boris was totally at odds with the tone of the rest of the film.

Meddings' unfinished miniature plane crash took alot of drama out of the Severneya melt down.

The music when Bond's plane lands at St Petersburg sounds like it came off a CDROM click and point adventure.

Too many silly, smutty, BEANO-hunour innuendos with Moneypenny and Xenia.

The hook up with Q felt like a half assed dress rehearsal.

There's a lot of really stale, heavy, Russian military Cold War leftover politics that dogs the film down in tedious self importance. Contrasting this with the BEANO smut liners, unfunny Boris and the cartoon cliff jump it just shows how randomly over the map and inconsistent the tone of the film is. The dreary sequences with Mishkin in St Petersburg especially are so jarringly at odds with Boris' pen-twirling jokes, you wonder whether Martin Campbell made two separate films that got plonked together.

There are way too many loud explosions, and every other second, littered throughout the movie. It never impresses like this.

Often the film feels way too much like a personal vendetta movie despite the fact it has all of the dramatic content of YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE or AVTAK rather than OHMSS (or even LTK).

On the subject of GE taking itself too seriously, I always felt everything surrounding Bean's 006 (and the relationship with 007) took itself way too seriously, and it contributes to the uneasy lead weight factor.

How did 006 get that tiny scar on his face?

Did the bad guy really need a big exploding villain's lair at the end of the film?

The Janus Satellite obviously being the Puerto Rico telescope thing was too lazy for me to stretch my imagination.



When you sit down and think about it, GE has an awful script. Now I'd love to see TND albeit from Campbell and the same directorial tone as GE.

Loved GE when it first came out. Me and a friend posed as journalists (even though we both looked like, what, 13?) and snuck into a press screening in Westwood, CA. I was so charged and pumped up - mainly because of how greatly used the Bond girls were, and how hot Sean Bean was. And Pierce was okay, if a little self-conscious.

Watching it now, though... well, I do think it tends to show its age (those Internet scenes) and its stagy quality (the movie feels oddly claustrophobic to me - I didn't get that with TWINE, DAD, or TND)... And that "score" by Eric Serra - what... the hell... were they... thinking???
Still, a decent way to pipe Jimmy Bond right into the 90s. Not perfect, but very entertaining...

Edited by Kristian, 12 October 2008 - 10:48 PM.

[DaveBond21]

Still, a decent way to pipe Jimmy Bond right into the 90s. Not perfect, but very entertaining

A nice way to describe it. I do feel that younger fans may not realise that Goldeneye felt shiny, new and very modern when it was first released. It was 1995, and some people still owned T-shirts from the 1980's. The 80's were still in our nostrils, and yet we had this new modern 90's Bond. It was great.

[Mister E]

Still, a decent way to pipe Jimmy Bond right into the 90s. Not perfect, but very entertaining

A nice way to describe it. I do feel that younger fans may not realise that Goldeneye felt shiny, new and very modern when it was first released. It was 1995, and some people still owned T-shirts from the 1980's. The 80's were still in our nostrils, and yet we had this new modern 90's Bond. It was great.

The so called "90's Bond" was a cheat. Brosnan in GE and his films onward was just the old sterotypes the public knew.

[Kristian]

Still, a decent way to pipe Jimmy Bond right into the 90s. Not perfect, but very entertaining

A nice way to describe it. I do feel that younger fans may not realise that Goldeneye felt shiny, new and very modern when it was first released. It was 1995, and some people still owned T-shirts from the 1980's. The 80's were still in our nostrils, and yet we had this new modern 90's Bond. It was great.

The so called "90's Bond" was a cheat. Brosnan in GE and his films onward was just the old sterotypes the public knew.

Mr. E, I don't think that's necessarily accurate. Yes, they obviously dug up the old stereotypes. But I really do think there was a sincere effort made to try and do something different:

1. The 90s Bond girls seemed to be more involved in the plotline and action. Melina and Pam Bouvier really paved the way for this, but I think their 90's counterparts were more active.

2. For better or worse, more action.

3. For better or worse more emotional resonance in each film - in GE we had the 007-006 "love that dare not speak its name" (Oh, Alec! You broke my heart...), in TND we had the doomed Paris connection, in TWINE we had the Elektra encounter that turned, well, electrifyingly bad, and in DAD we had whole "locked up for 14 months and emerging hornier than a 3-balled tomcat."

So, yeah, I think that the stereotypes were given enough of a 90's polish that they came off as, well, fresh.

I'm just saying...

Edited by Kristian, 13 October 2008 - 03:32 AM.

[Mister E]

Still, a decent way to pipe Jimmy Bond right into the 90s. Not perfect, but very entertaining

A nice way to describe it. I do feel that younger fans may not realise that Goldeneye felt shiny, new and very modern when it was first released. It was 1995, and some people still owned T-shirts from the 1980's. The 80's were still in our nostrils, and yet we had this new modern 90's Bond. It was great.

The so called "90's Bond" was a cheat. Brosnan in GE and his films onward was just the old sterotypes the public knew.

Mr. E, I don't think that's necessarily accurate. Yes, they obviously dug up the old stereotypes. But I really do think there was a sincere effort made to try and do something different:

1. The 90s Bond girls seemed to be more involved in the plotline and action. Melina and Pam Bouvier really paved the way for this, but I think their 90's counterparts were more active.

2. For better or worse, more action.

3. For better or worse more emotional resonance in each film - in GE we had the 007-006 "love that dare not speak its name" (Oh, Alec! You broke my heart...), in TND we had the doomed Paris connection, in TWINE we had the Elektra encounter that turned, well, electrifyingly bad, and in DAD we had whole "locked up for 14 months and emerging hornier than a 3-balled tomcat."

So, yeah, I think that the stereotypes were given enough of a 90's polish that they came off as, well, fresh.

I'm just saying...

1. The modern Bond girls were just as hollow as the bimbos in the old days. They had nothing to them but fighting skills and attitude. Not really step up.

2. The action in the 90's films was not only bloated, it generally failed to be creative. None of the Bond flavor you would associate with the series, just generic stuff.

3. Those are all gimmicks. Not a single one of those ideas were used to there full potential. They never really effected any of there respective films and they were only used for temporary shock value.


What I have said is on the mark really. In the 90's, Bond was a generic action hero in generic action films. A nice safe, bland, product for the masses.

[00Twelve]

Actually, Natalya is one of my very favorite Bond girls. Maybe it was the ultra low voice, but she seemed the most old-school as a Bond girl (and I mean that as a compliment). A genuine damsel who got caught up in something that was over her head, and she adapted to survive it. Blah, blah, anyway, I liked her. Much better than any of the rest of Broz' belles.

GE boasted one of the better hero/villain relationships of the series (though I still say it would have been more interesting for the fanboys if Trevelyan had been 008), and one of the best physical confrontations to cap it off. And sure, maybe Trevelyan's death may have smelt slightly of camp, but at least he didn't land on a conveniently placed spike.

It's still my guilty pleasure at #5 on my rankings.

[Mister E]

Actually, Natalya is one of my very favorite Bond girls. Maybe it was the ultra low voice, but she seemed the most old-school as a Bond girl (and I mean that as a compliment). A genuine damsel who got caught up in something that was over her head, and she adapted to survive it. Blah, blah, anyway, I liked her. Much better than any of the rest of Broz' belles.

GE boasted one of the better hero/villain relationships of the series (though I still say it would have been more interesting for the fanboys if Trevelyan had been 008), and one of the best physical confrontations to cap it off. And sure, maybe Trevelyan's death may have smelt slightly of camp, but at least he didn't land on a conveniently placed spike.

It's still my guilty pleasure at #5 on my rankings.

Natalya was decent but I didn't find her very appealing. As for Trevelyan, I found him to be pretty much a cookie cutter Bond villian and he had good lines. He said he knew Bond's every move and yet Bond caught him at basically every turn. Also his personal motivation wasn't beliveable in the least bit. His parents' murder suicide was at the end of World War II, that was fifty years before the events of GOLDENEYE. Trevelyan easily had to be over 60 for that backstory to work and it's clear he wasn't even close to that age.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Still, a decent way to pipe Jimmy Bond right into the 90s. Not perfect, but very entertaining

A nice way to describe it. I do feel that younger fans may not realise that Goldeneye felt shiny, new and very modern when it was first released. It was 1995, and some people still owned T-shirts from the 1980's. The 80's were still in our nostrils, and yet we had this new modern 90's Bond. It was great.

I remember it. In retrospect, the best thing about GE was it's box office success and making Bond popular again thus giving us the possibility that a CR would eventually come into existence.

Actually, Natalya is one of my very favorite Bond girls. Maybe it was the ultra low voice, but she seemed the most old-school as a Bond girl (and I mean that as a compliment). A genuine damsel who got caught up in something that was over her head, and she adapted to survive it. Blah, blah, anyway, I liked her. Much better than any of the rest of Broz' belles.

Yep. Natalya was definitely better than Wai Lin, Christmas or Jinx, not that that's necessarily saying much. Miss Scorupco was definitely very fetching. Her character's almost immediately falling for Bond after only 1 action scene was kinda contrived though.

As for Trevelyan, I found him to be pretty much a cookie cutter Bond villian and he had good lines. He said he knew Bond's every move and yet Bond caught him at basically every turn. Also his personal motivation wasn't beliveable in the least bit. His parents' murder suicide was at the end of World War II, that was fifty years before the events of GOLDENEYE. Trevelyan easily had to be over 60 for that backstory to work and it's clear he wasn't even close to that age.

Must've been a holdover from the earlier drafts when Trevelyan was a mentor/older father figure type to Bond and when Anthony Hopkins was considered for the role. I actually kinda liked that Lienz Cossacks backstory.

[Mister E]

Must've been a holdover from the earlier drafts when Trevelyan was a mentor/older father figure type to Bond and when Anthony Hopkins was considered for the role. I actually kinda liked that Lienz Cossacks backstory.

But it doesn't make any sense when you clearly make 006 as young or younger then Bond.