107 replies to this topic

[Loomis]

I think they wanted to go in a different direction a la the firing of Pierce Brosnan. Also, the advertising for his novels was weak and I think that's why his run was cut short.

There may be a lot of truth in that.

I don't understand why they got him to crank one out every year, then failed to do much of a marketing job. A new novel every two or three years (as with the film series) would have allowed for much better books (what with extra time to polish the texts, etc.), and the building up of each new literary 007 outing as An Event.

For me, the question is not "Why was Benson's run so short?", but "Why was Gardner's run so long?".

[Genrewriter]

I don't understand why they got him to crank one out every year, then failed to do much of a marketing job. A new novel every two or three years (as with the film series) would have allowed for much better books (what with extra time to polish the texts, etc.), and the building up of each new literary 007 outing as An Event.

Absolutely. It seemed to me like they just lost interest in publicizing the novels after a while. Heck, I'd go so far as to say they stopped doing a solid publicity job after Scorpius though I wouldn't be surprised if it was before that.

[Emery Goldings]

I have read them all. And yes, the last books were quite dragging.


To whichever must have caused this, I hope they don't go about this for long... Because honestly, I was disappointed with the last books published. For me, they felt rather rushed.



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[ImTheMoneypenny]

The original question of this thread is just begging for a disparaging remark regarding the quality of Mr Benson's output, but I shall refrain.

As far as I can understand his books sold about five copies each, which is obviously unsustainable. Nonetheless, I gather they did not print many, and promotion was weak (to put it mildly) which were both contributory factors. Go into a bookstore that stocks a Benson (itself a curio nowadays) and you will no doubt find it hidden in the Fleming section - at least that is what I have found. This shows the general lack of interest towards them (although this may have happened in bookshops in the Gardner era, I really do not know).

Even though I am no fan of Benson's books, they are no worse than some of the absolute codswallop that gets printed these days and sells ([cough] Dan Brown [/cough]). So despite the poor quality (which itself was not the issue - IFP were at fault in that department too) it was the general meagre sales (which again can be substantially blamed on IFP) that probably did it.

Ah, someone in this section of the board who makes sense! (I have an issue with Benson, and similar writers [need I cough?] though admittedly I am a bit harsh) The thing I don't like about writers of "commercial fiction" is they lack flare and spark (IMO) that Fleming and a few others had (and a few still do) while they say their stories are fast paced, and I suppose they are, but they don't feel fast paced.

My second problem with Benson was mainly a combination of the lackluster "commercial thriller" style and (after reading a blurb of his new book) his sex scene fettish. Benson is right in saying that if Fleming was around today he probably would be writing fairly graphic novels in both the violence and sex area, but with Fleming it would work, and while it would be graphic it would still feel exciting to read. It would tingle the senses and be sensual, instead of what we got from Benson which was basically run of the mill descriptions and a he did while she did exchange so he could get a quick fix while writing.

(Did I say I overuse commas)

This is the first time I've seen anyone address Benson's sex scenes. I have to admit, Zero Minus Ten is the only Benson book I read and I only read part of it because once Bond got a lap dance from that oh so classy and supposedly smart girl who put the ho in hostess I was so turned off, in fact livid, I threw the book across the room and never picked it up again. It's not that I'm prudish or the like, I've read my fair share of trashy graphic books. But I felt that this was so beneath Bond. It read like a Jacqueline Susan novel, or just common dirty romance novels disguised as thriller trash. Gardner was only slightly better, I think he crossed the line a bit too much too, but not as bad as Benson had. They seem to think all we want is to flip through for the good hot and heavy stuff. Our little monkey brains need a big dose of sex between the(book)covers in order to read at all.

I like the way Fleming had written Bond's sex life, we didn't need a blow by blow (pun possibly intended). We don't need the manual. I'm sure we're all old enough to know exactly how it all works, so why not let us use our imaginations. I don't think Fleming would be writing like Benson even if he were writing now and days. He'd still not want to see the words on his page, as he didn't back then. Fleming is not William Borroughs or Henry Miller who were quite graphic in the 50's and 60's. Heck Errol Flynn dropped the F-Bomb in his memoir, so using language and graphic sex was acceptable then as it is now. He's more like Hammett and Chandler skipping to the next morning. Bernard Cornwell, a modern writer, in his Sharpe's novels leaves it up to us to imagine Sharpe's couplings. It's just not a good excuse that Benson uses.

I don't want to hear about Bond's hardness and I'm not speaking of his personality. In Fleming's Casino Royale, when Bond grabs Vesper and kisses her when they are in their room alone for the first time after his run in with Le Chiffre, we all know what was going on physically. We didn't need it spelled out specifically, yet what he did write was just as steamy.

Okay so there's my grouch. That's why I don't fancy Benson. There's a line I feel that's inappropriate to cross with someone else's character. Benson fell over it with his pants down around his ankles.

[MkB]

I know what you mean, but from memory GCSE Biology was never like this:

Finally, he took a breast in his hand and used his thumb and forefinger to stimulate the nipple. When it was erect, he slowly and gently twisted it, pulled it, twisted it, pulled it...Tylyn squirmed under him as he alternated between the two breasts. Then, keeping his left hand on one breast and continuing the nipple stimulation, he slid his right hand down to the mound between her legs. Her hair was soft and thin there. She was wet, and his second and third fingers slid inside easily. Tylyn moaned loudly and arched her back as he used his thumb to circle the erogenous zone at the top of her vulva. He kept up this rhythm for several minutes, using her natural lubrication to slide his thumb up and down and around her clitoris, while keeping his two fingers deep within her.

But it isn't very erotic. Very silly, perhaps. But not very erotic.

Oh my... IFP allowed this to be published in a Bond novel? Did they forget their standards? Maybe Bond novels are pulp literature, but they are still supposed to be literature! This is one of the most ridiculous sex scenes I've ever read.

The scene that Jim transcribed is exactly how I remember, and it's about as sexy as watching paint dry.

(And please don't link me to any paint-drying-fetish websites. I don't want to know.)

Uh, well, if you're watching gold paint dry on Jill Masterton, this might be sexy

Oh, Hope Kendall. I had forgotten about her. One thing that came to my mind when you mentioned her, wasn't her swingin both ways, but her exam of Bond's prostate. And Benson mentioning that "She wasn't very gentle with that exam, either." How's that for kink?

Now, please someone tell me this is a joke by Trident... Please...


Don't get me wrong: I'd be very happy with graphical sex scenes in Bond novels, as long as they are literary, sexy and hot. Which is not my definition of a prostate exam.

[Trident]

Oh, Hope Kendall. I had forgotten about her. One thing that came to my mind when you mentioned her, wasn't her swingin both ways, but her exam of Bond's prostate. And Benson mentioning that "She wasn't very gentle with that exam, either." How's that for kink?

Now, please someone tell me this is a joke by Trident... Please...


Don't get me wrong: I'd be very happy with graphical sex scenes in Bond novels, as long as they are literary, sexy and hot. Which is not my definition of a prostate exam.

Nope. See for yourself: 'High Time To Kill' by Raymond Benson, Coronet paperback 1999, chaper 16, page 178.

But one has to bear in mind here that this was probably not originally written as a graphical sex scene but as a way to describe the more penetrating sides of Hope Kendall's character.

[Skudor]

Finally, he took a breast in his hand and used his thumb and forefinger to stimulate the nipple. When it was erect, he slowly and gently twisted it, pulled it, twisted it, pulled it...Tylyn squirmed under him as he alternated between the two breasts. Then, keeping his left hand on one breast and continuing the nipple stimulation, he slid his right hand down to the mound between her legs. Her hair was soft and thin there. She was wet, and his second and third fingers slid inside easily. Tylyn moaned loudly and arched her back as he used his thumb to circle the erogenous zone at the top of her vulva. He kept up this rhythm for several minutes, using her natural lubrication to slide his thumb up and down and around her clitoris, while keeping his two fingers deep within her.

That is more p

[MkB]

Oh, Hope Kendall. I had forgotten about her. One thing that came to my mind when you mentioned her, wasn't her swingin both ways, but her exam of Bond's prostate. And Benson mentioning that "She wasn't very gentle with that exam, either." How's that for kink?

Now, please someone tell me this is a joke by Trident... Please...


Don't get me wrong: I'd be very happy with graphical sex scenes in Bond novels, as long as they are literary, sexy and hot. Which is not my definition of a prostate exam.

Nope. See for yourself: 'High Time To Kill' by Raymond Benson, Coronet paperback 1999, chaper 16, page 178.

But one has to bear in mind here that this was probably not originally written as a graphical sex scene but as a way to describe the more penetrating sides of Hope Kendall's character.

* ... comes back from the bathroom... *

* ... swallows a second handful of anti-nausea tablets... *

Well, well... I'm short of words...
Now if you'd excuse me one minute...

* ... runs back to the bathroom... *

That is more p�rnographic than it is erotic. This is the literary equivalent of genitalia filling the screen in all their pumping glory for minutes on end.

Ironically enough I can actually picture this - I very rarely have mental images when I read.

Sorry for bringing this image to your mind, Skudor
Actually, it's not only p�rnographic rather than erotic, it also looks terribly clumsy and unimaginative (and I don't mean it only on a literary plan...).

[Mr. Blofeld]

That Benson sure was demented, eh?

[MkB]

That Benson sure was demented, eh?

No, but some guys at IFP surely were.

[Skudor]

Oh, Hope Kendall. I had forgotten about her. One thing that came to my mind when you mentioned her, wasn't her swingin both ways, but her exam of Bond's prostate. And Benson mentioning that "She wasn't very gentle with that exam, either." How's that for kink?

Now, please someone tell me this is a joke by Trident... Please...


Don't get me wrong: I'd be very happy with graphical sex scenes in Bond novels, as long as they are literary, sexy and hot. Which is not my definition of a prostate exam.

Nope. See for yourself: 'High Time To Kill' by Raymond Benson, Coronet paperback 1999, chaper 16, page 178.

But one has to bear in mind here that this was probably not originally written as a graphical sex scene but as a way to describe the more penetrating sides of Hope Kendall's character.

* ... comes back from the bathroom... *

* ... swallows a second handful of anti-nausea tablets... *

Well, well... I'm short of words...
Now if you'd excuse me one minute...

* ... runs back to the bathroom... *

That is more p�rnographic than it is erotic. This is the literary equivalent of genitalia filling the screen in all their pumping glory for minutes on end.

Ironically enough I can actually picture this - I very rarely have mental images when I read.

Sorry for bringing this image to your mind, Skudor
Actually, it's not only p�rnographic rather than erotic, it also looks terribly clumsy and unimaginative (and I don't mean it only on a literary plan...).

The amazing thing is that he didn't even use his little finger...

Also, according to Moneypenny, Bond's linguistic skills are exceptional, which begs the question: why is he using sign-language?

[Major Tallon]

Compare Benson's version to Bond's seduction of Domino in Thunderball. Fleming put together a far more erotic description without ever having to describe the anatomic details.

[Major D.Smythe]

I've always wondered this, as the 3 i've read (in order of favourites)..

1. High Time To Kill
2. Never Dream Of Dying
2. The Man With The Red Tattoo

Were all good books IMO, and I was belwildered when Benson just suddenly stopped writng them.

[Ambler]

I've always been against burning books. This thread has made me think again.

[Santa]

Finally, he took a breast in his hand and used his thumb and forefinger to stimulate the nipple. When it was erect, he slowly and gently twisted it, pulled it, twisted it, pulled it...

For future reference, this is not the way to treat nipples.

[Ambler]

"It just came off in my hand, your honour."

[JimmyBond]

Finally, he took a breast in his hand and used his thumb and forefinger to stimulate the nipple. When it was erect, he slowly and gently twisted it, pulled it, twisted it, pulled it...

For future reference, this is not the way to treat nipples.

No wonder my girlfriend left me

[dinovelvet]

Finally, he took a breast in his hand and used his thumb and forefinger to stimulate the nipple. When it was erect, he slowly and gently twisted it, pulled it, twisted it, pulled it...

For future reference, this is not the way to treat nipples.

It is a good way to try and get a reception on your radio, though.