41 replies to this topic

[SecretAgent007]

In all of the footage thus far, Bond/Craig has been shooting it up with a Hi Power (hopefully not a Charles Daly model ) I'm a big fan of the P35, as is Bryce if I read elsewhere correctly. Does anyone know if any of the footage with the HP takes place after the PTS? If so, doesn't it stand to reason that the HP is Bond's gun? Wouldn't they have issued the PPK to Bond when he joins SIS, if they were going to? I don't know of any ageny that lets you carry the gun of your choice, well at least that is not on an approved list.

[Bryce (003)]

Having seen the shootout footage, James does appear to be packing some variation of the classic Browning HP - which was the standard pistol of SAS for 20+ years. We all know 007 can handle any pistol he gets his hands on, but if the SAS background is fleshed out, then him first seen using an HP would be logical.

We'll be seeing the PPK as well though.

[Icephoenix]

Perhaps his HP jams sometime during the beginning of the mission?

[Hitchcock Bond]

The gun in the pictures looks more like the Walther P99 to me. The pistol looks chunkier than the P35 and trigger guard looks more square. Have they updated the design of the P35? If so does anyone know of a link to look at this design? I understand that Bond will carry the PPK at some point during the film. They could make it Bond's own gun which he carries in the casino scene because he doesn't want to ruin the line of his suit.

[AnGer 007]

In the pictures we have seen, James Bond uses both the Walther P99 and the Browning HP.

He has the P99 here http://superherohype...12.jpg&img=&tt= and here http://superherohype...11.jpg&img=&tt=

He clearly uses the HP in this picture (scroll down) http://debrief.comma...showtopic=29626

My guess is that he uses the HP in the PTS only, because of his SAS days (or because he picks it up from an adversary during the chase/fight.)

He uses the P99 for the rest of the film as he becomes a 00 MI6 agent. It would be cool if we see M giving him the P99 in a nod to the classic Dr.No scene.

I don't know if we will see (or if it makes sense to use) the PPK.

Edited by AnGer 007, 17 March 2006 - 12:00 PM.

[Nikos]

AnGer 007 I agree, since its pretty much established by now that chronological order doesnt matter. If a 'weapon transition scene' needs be, it could be between HP and P99

[vosne]

Perhaps the 'transition' is linked to moving the character to his undercover work and a PPK because it can be concealed more effectively.

[krypt]

If Bond does carry a PPK at any point in the film, it could come from a source other than MI6 (SIS).

[SecretAgent007]

I have yet to see a PPK in any of the clips or stills. I would rather he keep the HP than go to the P-99. I really don't like the P-99. The report from a 9 sounds like a +P+ 40 load and the muzzle flash is excessive. But, it is a movie

Two watches and at least two guns. They are getting all of the tie-ins that they can.

Bryce, if you like your HP, you should send it to my buddy Ted Yost for his trigger reduction. It shortens the trigger reset quite a bit. IM me and maybe I can get you a good deal.

[Andrew]

My guess is that he uses the HP in the PTS only, because of his SAS days (or because he picks it up from an adversary during the chase/fight.)

He uses the P99 for the rest of the film as he becomes a 00 MI6 agent. It would be cool if we see M giving him the P99 in a nod to the classic Dr.No scene.

I don't know if we will see (or if it makes sense to use) the PPK.

Well the picture where he is using the HP isn't from the PTS so I don't think that's where he uses it. I'd probably say that he loses the P99 in the Madagascar chase(perhaps on the crane?) and takes the HP off of someone who he's taken out.

[icecold]

I used to hate the P99 but for some reason the last few days it's been warming to me. I'd still like to see him use the PPK or even the P99C when concealment is of the utmost importance, but the P99 is fine for everything else. I guess I disliked it b/c everytime I picture it it's in the hands of Pierce doing his Arnold Schwarzenegger impression from TND and DAD. But now that I've seen craig using it I guess my perception has changed.

But yes, him losing his Walther and picking up the HP from a bad guy makes the most sense.

[Bryce (003)]

Bryce, if you like your HP, you should send it to my buddy Ted Yost for his trigger reduction. It shortens the trigger reset quite a bit. IM me and maybe I can get you a good deal.

Actually, way ahead of you. My HP is the Argentine Militia model (with an official OK from Browning). Every part is completely interchangeable with any of the true Browning's or FN models. The trigger action had actually been reduced by the previous owner. The same has been done with my PPK and the action is quite smooth.

OK

BOT -

We know the PPK will show up at some point, but I rather like the HP compared to the P99. Especially with custom 15 or 20 round clips. With the single action, in a specialized stance and grip, you can rapid fire that pistol faster than an M4 or MP5K on full auto.

[zencat]

We know the PPK will show up at some point...

Do we know that for sure, Bryce?

[Bryce (003)]

Fair enough Zen - I *believe* we'll see Bond using one. Then again, with the way things are being done, maybe Bond will get issued one and then drop it in the trash on the way out.

I'd like to think we'd see the classic pistol in Bond's hands at some point though.

[zencat]

Fair enough Zen - I *believe* we'll see Bond using one. Then again, with the way things are being done, maybe Bond will get issued one and then drop it in the trash on the way out.

I'd like to think we'd see the classic pistol in Bond's hands at some point though.

I would too. Here's hoping.

[SecretAgent007]

Bryce, I'm not talking about a trigger job itself, but shortening the trigger reset (amount of release after firing a shot at which point the sear can re-engage the hammer and fire another round). This is quite hard to do on a HP due to the trigger geometry and the use of a transfer bar.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I would pick something with a shorter slide if you are going up against an MP5K (any you still couldn't keep up) The MP5 has a cyclic rate of 800 rounds per minute (13+ rounds per second). I don't even think my buddy Rob Leatham could shoot that fast and hit anything. The full auto HP's that I trained on were only about 300 rounds per minute. The length of a HP slide and the amount of reset do not lend themselves to high cyclic rates. The amount of drop from a camming barrel slows things down a little too (nothing dramatic-.002 sec). You would be better off with a P7. The fixed barrel and slide geometry and its relationship to the length of cycle have an advantage over just about any other factory gun. The ASP can get going too, but you are limited again by the amount of trigger reset, barrel cam, and amount of travel for round ejection. The only reason you can even shoot an ASP quickly is the lightening of the slide. The fastest that I can do a bill drill (a bill drill is a drill with the target 7 yards away. The goal is to draw your weapon and shoot 6 shots in the A zone of a IPSC target in 2 seconds) with a HP is about 2.3 seconds. I can cut that down to 1.7 seconds with any of my full house Govt models and about 2.2-2.3 seconds with the P7, ASP, or Devel.

Anyway, it's nice to see a HP in a movie. For some reason they don't use HP's that much on film.

Edited by SecretAgent007, 21 March 2006 - 05:39 AM.

[AnGer 007]

Wouldn't they have issued the PPK to Bond when he joins SIS, if they were going to? I don't know of any ageny that lets you carry the gun of your choice, well at least that is not on an approved list.

Having seen the shootout footage, James does appear to be packing some variation of the classic Browning HP - which was the standard pistol of SAS for 20+ years.

Does anyone know exactly what handguns the secret intelligence agencies issue to their agents? Not only the British MI5 and MI6 but also the CIA, FBI, NSA, etc. Is there a site I could see?

Of all the handguns Bond has used in the films and novels my favourite is the ASP. I love that gun! I wish I could get my hands on one of those.

If I was the armourer in CR I would give Bond the Walther P99c because it is easier to conceal it than the regular P99.

[SecretAgent007]

The CIA used to issue Hi Power's. The guns were purchased from Interarms (all were used guns). The serial #'s were milled out of the gun and the area welded back up, making the gun "sterile". They now issue the Glock 23 with no serial #. Guns are new and provided by Glock without #'s.

FBI: Glock 23 (tactical team is issued Springfield 1911 with same specs as the TRP model)

NSA: Technically they are not issued weapons

DEA: Glock 23

US Secret Service: Sig Sauer P228 and 229

Dept. of Homeland Security (ATF/INS/Air Marshal):many agencies (big and small)have merged together as part of DHS and no one firearm has been standardized for issue under the one agency. Most are issued Sig's and some Glocks

US Armed Forces: Beretta M9 (basically the same as a 92FS. They are changing back to the 45 ACP round and testing guns at this time. SF and SEALS are issued different guns for particular missions.

*Glock provides firearms to over 65% of law enforcement agencies throughout the United States

No idea what foreign govt's issue.

All US agencies allow agents to carry other guns, but they must be on an approved list. These can be carry or backup weapons.

Edited by SecretAgent007, 20 March 2006 - 05:27 PM.

[AnGer 007]

The CIA used to issue Hi Power's. The guns were purchased from Interarms (all were used guns). The serial #'s were milled out of the gun and the area welded back up, making the gun "sterile". They now issue the Glock 23 with no serial #. Guns are new and provided by Glock without #'s.

FBI: Glock 23 (tactical team is issued Springfield 1911 with same specs as the TRP model)

NSA: Technically they are not issued weapons

DEA: Glock 23

US Secret Service: Sig Sauer P228 and 229

Dept. of Homeland Security (ATF/INS/Air Marshal):many agencies (big and small)have merged together as part of DHS and no one firearm has been standardized for issue under the one agency. Most are issued Sig's and some Glocks

US Armed Forces: Beretta M9 (basically the same as a 92FS. They are changing back to the 45 ACP round and testing guns at this time. SF and SEALS are issued different guns for particular missions.

*Glock provides firearms to over 65% of law enforcement agencies throughout the United States

No idea what foreign govt's issue.

All US agencies allow agents to carry other guns, but they must be on an approved list. These can be carry or backup weapons.

You know all this or are you just guessing?

Just kidding, thanks SecretAgent007!

[SecretAgent007]

I deal with a lot of these agencies. Some of these may be slightly out of date. Some of the agencies change guns like socks.

[MrDraco]

as do i women

[AnGer 007]

I deal with a lot of these agencies. Some of these may be slightly out of date. Some of the agencies change guns like socks.

Sounds exciting... and mysterious! I've read that the ASP (that Bond used in some of the Gardner novels) was issued to US diplomatic agents in the 80's that worked in embassies around the world. Do you know what handgun they use now?

Sorry if I tire you with my questions SecretAgent but I am interested in the subject and you seem to know much... too much!

[Leon]

He's using a P99 as his usual gun. I have it on good sources that he will be using a PPK somewhere in the film (likely the PTS) and he is using both a Walther P99 and a Browning HP 9mm in the Embassy shoot-up, maybe taken from a guard?

The clips of him using the Browning are from the Madagascar action scenes, not the PTS. The PTS will feature a flashback of him carrying out his first two assassinations, probably using the PPK and reportedly in black and white up until he makes his final kill and un-officially becomes 007.

Edited by Leon, 21 March 2006 - 08:25 PM.

[SecretAgent007]

DSS carries Sig 229's

ATF: Sig 229

Boarder Patrol: HK USP

and a correction, CIA Glock 19 not 23

I can't remeber everything, can I?

The ASP was never issued to anyone. There is a lot of false and mis-information out there about the ASP. Most of it was marketing in the early 70's by Paris Theodore. Although he did make interesting toys for some govt. operatives. More on that in my ASP article, when I get time to finish it. I'm having Ichiro Nagata come to the shop to take some pictures for business and may have him do the photography for the ASP article. His firearm pics are the best in the industry, so hopefully they will turn out really nice.
* I have a really cool negative from Kevin Parsons of the ASP laying on a passport with the last three digits of the passport ser# showing......007. It's in b&w. I'll scan the negative and post the pic when I get a free minute.

Edited by SecretAgent007, 21 March 2006 - 10:02 PM.

[AnGer 007]

...More on that in my ASP article, when I get time to finish it. I'm having Ichiro Nagata come to the shop to take some pictures for business and may have him do the photography for the ASP article. His firearm pics are the best in the industry, so hopefully they will turn out really nice.
* I have a really cool negative from Kevin Parsons of the ASP laying on a passport with the last three digits of the passport ser# showing......007. It's in b&w. I'll scan the negative and post the pic when I get a free minute.

A new ASP article plus new pictures? That will be AWESOME! I can't wait SecretAgent007! Keep us posted.

[billy007]

Didn't Sean Bean use a Browning in GoldenEye?

[Flash1087]

Didn't Sean Bean use a Browning in GoldenEye?

Yeah, but I believe it's one of the more 'modernized' Hi-Powers, like this:

http://world.guns.ru...uns/hg104-e.htm

[Bryce (003)]

Great pics Flash.

However, remember that if you factor in the "nine years later" math on Goldeneye it's 1986 - before the double action combat modified Brownings were produced.

006 does in fact use a HP in the Arkangel facility - and does do a good piece of work with it silenced.

Here's a few of my own ASP and me diligently cleaning my Walther.

Attached Files

•  ASP_1.JPG   84.84KB   72 downloads
•  On_the_job_2.JPG   122.57KB   84 downloads
•  ASP___Manual_Baton_and_clips.JPG   58.5KB   71 downloads

[Flash1087]

Great pics Flash.

However, remember that if you factor in the "nine years later" math on Goldeneye it's 1986 - before the double action combat modified Brownings were produced.

006 does in fact use a HP in the Arkangel facility - and does do a good piece of work with it silenced.

Here's a few of my own ASP and me diligently cleaning my Walther.

I hadn't taken the 'prologue' chronology into account, but according to the website I posted, the Browning DA appeared in 1983. Still, I could be wrong. For all we know, some prop director made the same mistake and assumed "aw heck, a Hi-Power is a Hi-Power, he'll carry this one!".

And those are some fine pictures yourself. I'd love to try out an ASP for real someday.

Edited by Flash1087, 15 April 2006 - 06:17 AM.

[Bryce (003)]

I hadn't taken the 'prologue' chronology into account, but according to the website I posted, the Browning DA appeared in 1983. Still, I could be wrong. For all we know, some prop director made the same mistake and assumed "aw heck, a Hi-Power is a Hi-Power, he'll carry this one!".

And those are some fine pictures yourself. I'd love to try out an ASP for real someday.

Having done a bit of digging, you are correct good sir. The DA HP first came about in '83 - I think they were actually worried with the popularity of the CZ-75 - The Czech version of the HP which featured DA at the time.

As to the ASP - Feels like a bar of soap - you can draw it out of the front pocket of a snug pair of jeans and not have it snag on anything, hits like .44 (depending on your ammo), kicks like a .32 and - in a pinch - can also chamber and accurately fire .380. For the short barrel, it's not much for range, but a serious stopper and has a wide ejection port (well, wider than most compact 9mm's and I've never had a jam). That along with the sights, it's just a bloody clever pistol in all regards - and 258 different modifications according to the manual.

Cheers Flash.