85 replies to this topic

[Ourobouros]

The ending owes a lot to The Third Man? So basically there is a chase and Bond has to kill Vesper? Not quite the same as suicide is it.....

[Harmsway]

The ending owes a lot to The Third Man? So basically there is a chase and Bond has to kill Vesper? Not quite the same as suicide is it.....

He didn't say was precisely like THE THIRD MAN, but owes a lot to it. In other words, there are some basic similarities.

[Jim]

The ending owes a lot to The Third Man? So basically there is a chase and Bond has to kill Vesper? Not quite the same as suicide is it.....

He didn't say was precisely like THE THIRD MAN, but owes a lot to it. In other words, there are some basic similarities.

Unless it's like the very very end of THE THIRD MAN where the female lead (forgotten her name - Something Valli?) abandons the hero and walks on past him, as the credits roll...

...except here she walks on past him, into the sea, as he gives her the option out (instead of court martial) - NB I don't know if this is true but it's achingly bleak and will set the start of OHMSS in a different light.

[Jack Spang]

I will be quite disappointed if Vesper doesn't commit suicide. It does sound like she won't now, what with the fact they have made her a great deal mentally stronger than her literary counterpart. It's a real shame.

[Fro]

I will be quite disappointed if Vesper doesn't commit suicide. It does sound like she won't now, what with the fact they have made her a great deal mentally stronger than her literary counterpart. It's a real shame.

Stax has said she still commits suicide, just it is "more cinematic". Poisoning yourself in the middle of the night is about the most boring way to die imaginable.

Having read the book for the first time last night... there's no hint that Vesper has issues until the last 30 pages or so (same with the true romance between Bond and Vesper). Vesper's conversation in the hospital with Bond is an amazing five whole pages long in the novel (and probably would compress down to a couple pages in a screenplay). Vesper actually cracking is only 10 pages long in the novel before she offs herself.

I'm guessing those last 20 pages or so are brought out of "post-recovery" and run parallel to the new finale in Venice.

I think Stax's review is based on his idealized memory of the book and not the actual contents of the novel.

Edited by Fro, 25 February 2006 - 02:03 AM.

[Ourobouros]

Where did Stax say Vesper commits suicide?

[Fro]

Where did Stax say Vesper commits suicide?

He posted on both of the big sites

http://www.mi6forums...hlight=#3744028

[Jack Spang]

Okay, thanks Fro. That's a relief. It'll be interesting to see how she does it. Anyone care to make a guess? Maybe it will involve the propeller of a motorised gondola? Okay, that was in poor taste. I wonder if she'll jump off a cliff. Maybe drown herself. I would like to see that. If done right it could be quite shocking and upsetting. Jumping off a cliff would be to short. A drowning would be reminiscent of OHMSS although this time she'll get to go through with it. I wonder what motivates her to do it.

[Flash1087]

Actually, letting Bond drown herself in the ocean instead of a court martial could be the best possible way to do this.

1. As mentioned, it's a lot more interesting than overdosing in the middle of the night.

2. It makes OHMSS all the more tragic and horrible for Bond on a myriad of levels. He saves Tracy from the same fate as Vesper just for her to wind up dead anyway. Poor fella...

3. It just smacks of Fleming. We never actually saw Major Dexter-Smythe in Octopussy, but this would be the exact same situation.

I kinda doubt it'll happen, but I am all for this scenario.

[Harmsway]

It's not going to happen, the finale happens in Venice.

[Loomis]

They won't be doing this, but I've long thought a cool alternative ending would be for Vesper to confess all to Bond, believing that his love for her will outweigh his sense of duty to queen and country. She suggests they flee and live as fugitives, and maybe Bond is tempted. After all, what has being an MI6 agent done for him, save getting him a lot of trouble and a very sore pair? So Bond kisses her, and they go to bed, or maybe we see Vesper turning in first and Bond staring moodily out of a window or something, lost in his thoughts. What's going to happen? In the morning, Bond rises first, and leaves. Where's he going? Later, Vesper stirs. Tries to get out of bed. But she and we find that her wrist has been cuffed or tied to the headboard. Cut to Bond walking down the street, spilling the beans over mobile phone to someone at MI6. "Yeah, you'll find her in the hotel room. Definitely still in bed, yes. That's the story, but it's enough to put her away. No, I don't care. The bitch is dead to me now."

BOND has now BEGUN. He's made his choice. He's now committed himself to the British secret service. The superspy we all know and love is born.

[Jack Spang]

It's not going to happen, the finale happens in Venice.

There is plenty of water in Venice.

[K1Bond007]

For the film, I always kind of envisioned her with a gun on her bed confessing everything to him - the part where he enters in the book to find her dead and her note - instead she would be in tears propped up on the bed when he enters then after confessing doing it in front of him with him pleading for her not to. Very tragic.

Then again the only reason she commits suicide in the first place is because she couldn't bear to have him look at her with the knowledge that she betrayed him. It was because she wanted to leave the world with the thought that he loved her even in spite of what she had done (regardless if he didn't know) that sent her to the point of killing herself.

[Harmsway]

It's not going to happen, the finale happens in Venice.

There is plenty of water in Venice.

Yeah, but not a beach, really. Besides, I doubt Bond's going to allow her to kill herself (and I hope he doesn't... it's much more tragic to have him somewhat helpless as the woman he loves commits suicide).

[The Dove]

So what's the deal with the gunbarrel?? Is it going to be the traditional or will they put it just before the title sequence, as part of the pre-titles?? Anyone know yet?

[Judo chop]

Poisoning yourself in the middle of the night is about the most boring way to die imaginable.

This is true. Studies have shown that it is practically impossible to kill oneself via poisoning. It was found that, in the end, one actually dies of boredom before the poison does its work.

However they do Vesper's death, I'd imagine it won't be a bloody one. ie. no jumping from great heights. I think we'll have to see Bond seeing her dead keeping it PG. Maybe he'll hold her head one last time... but emotionally cold... no sentimental sulking over the loss like in OHMSS.

[Jack Spang]

Maybe she'll drown herself in the lake. Tie weights to her ankles. I don't really like how they are using a villa for the last Act. It has already been used in two Hollywood films. I wanted something original.

Edited by Jack Spang, 28 February 2006 - 08:39 AM.

[me4007th007]

Stax,

is it your opinion that perhaps the Bond-Vesper story was rushed because there's a lot from the original novel to cover in the movie, and cuts had to be made somewhere?

[Stax]

No, it's because, as in the novel, you don't have your major villain present during act 3 and they're probably worried that viewers will get bored or confused so get on with the action.

[Harmsway]

That makes sense, I guess. I wonder what I'll think of how it's done when I actually see it.

[Jack Spang]

It seems like yet another action oriented Bond movie unfortunately. It doesn't sound like they'll really be doing the book much justice. Not that I ever thought they would. Eon are business people not film makers. It's a shame, but I really have come to expect tightly cut fast paced action fests from Eon. Bond movies just aint thrillers anymore, merely action flicks. You only get true, great character driven pictures when they are independently made. I don

[SecretAgentFan]

No, it's because, as in the novel, you don't have your major villain present during act 3 and they're probably worried that viewers will get bored or confused so get on with the action.

And that

[Jack Spang]

You are right ofcourse. It's just a pity the masses get bored so easily. If everyone really likes independent films the world would be a better place. I wish Eon would make lower budget films and aim them at much smaller markets so we could have faithful adaptations. Now I am dreaming!

What I did find particularly disappointing is that Stax said the relationship in CR wouldn't even be developed to the same extent as the Bond/Tracey scenes in the cinematic version of OHMSS. I see no reason why they couldn

[Dmitri Mishkin]

I'm also disappointed to hear that the relationship between Bond and Vesper will be truncated or otherwise shallow. The Elektra and Jinx relationships were never convincing to me and always seemed to jump straight into love. Of course, the OHMSS montage with Bond and Tracey did this too, but their romance felt much more genuine.

As pointed out, today's audiences would likely become bored or uninterested to sit through a movie that is heavily front-loaded with action, but ends in a denouement of a developing romance with no actual villainous climax (a romantic climax for sure, but not a final confrontation with the villain in classic Hollywood structure).

I think there is a way to still portray the blooming romance convincingly throughout the film, but those scenes will have to be concise and well-judged. I watched GE yesterday and there is just enough attachment formed between Bond and Natalya when she asks him, "Did you really mean it when you said, I mean nothing to you?" to establish the romance and lead into the final climactic confrontation with Trevelyan. The scene was short but still contained impact because of the payoff. I'm hoping CR will offer at least one of those kinds of scenes, or moments, with a payoff.

[Jack Spang]

Yes, GE had potential with the character movement but the scenes were just way to short and rushed. There was just too much action in GE for my liking. This film could have been much better. They just keep them so damn tightly cut and fast paced. It's a shame. In the Bronson movies it seemed like we just hopped from one action scene to the next. They went completely over board with the abundance of action. Just as it started to get interesting the scene would end and once again we

Edited by Jack Spang, 04 March 2006 - 11:05 PM.

[killkenny kid]

The Third Man is on TCM, right now.