53 replies to this topic

[stamper]

We have all heard this rumor, from time to time and book to book, about how Terence Young said he was the main driving force behind Goldfinger, almost, but not quite, claiming his stamp his all over it.

Many deny this possibility as "implausible".

It originates from Young declaration in an interview in the now forgotten Bondage mag, issue 10.

Thought the transcription of the interview seems scrambled, (ie literal explanation of what is said doesn't make great sense), we know one thing for sure : Young did all the pre-production work, (and so far, no one disputed that).

Now, in that interview the great director's said he viewed the rough cut of Goldfinger, and said to the producers the movie was ok, (while producers were worried), and that he reedited it with Peter Hunt, moving scenes around to make the first act longer.

In Bond & Beyond book the author deny such thing occuring, because it doesn't make sense, the movie following closely the plot of the book. Scenes couldn't really be that much shuffled around.

I think the explanation is : Young may have moved some scenes around, ala FRWL (see the DVD bonus), but only in block to block way (ie lumps of scenes packed together, but reshufled inside out). Second, I'm sure Young and Hunt took off chunks from the second act, and extended the first act to make the movie more on spot, as Bond was getting captured too early according to Young.

This make sense, because the golf scene is ultra long, almost 18mn. Bond rides etc and meeting Jill sister also have some great, but leasury moments. From the moment Bond is captured, the pace is quicker. Scenes don't last as long. I'm pretty sure it's Terence stamp (no pun intended) on the picture.

And if you have doubts, ask yourself, does DAF, LALD & MWTGG (same director) match the quality of Goldfinger ?

[Scottlee]

Well, Goldfinger is much superior to Hamilton's other Bond films that's for sure. As for Young having contributed to the film - Well, I don't know. It wouldn't surprise me if he had.

[BlackFelix]

It makes sense! Aside from the more apparent "gag" effect, when compared to FRWL, the style of Goldfinger is spot on with Young's other Bond movies. I mean the laser beam scene is straight from Young's style. Also, you're right about Hamilton's other pictures never reaching the quality of Goldfinger, and I've always wondered why the Guy (pun intended) who made Goldfinger never made another Bond film as good, though I do like DAF and LALD. If it's true it explains alot.

Edited by BlackFelix, 25 January 2006 - 03:28 PM.

[spynovelfan]

You can read the interview with Young in BONDAGE here.

[doublenoughtspy]

Young makes a lot of unsubtantiated claims.

Then again, Guy Hamilton claims an entire reel of Goldfinger went to the premiere unedited, which simply isn't possible, unless he is talking about the credits or something.

Young's disdain of Thunderball is pretty evident. He left production to work on The Poppy is Also a Flower. Thankfully Peter Hunt took over the reigns and did what he could.

[Mister Asterix]

Young makes a lot of unsubtantiated claims.

Then again, Guy Hamilton claims an entire reel of Goldfinger went to the premiere unedited, which simply isn't possible, unless he is talking about the credits or something.

Young's disdain of Thunderball is pretty evident. He left production to work on The Poppy is Also a Flower.  Thankfully Peter Hunt took over the reigns and did what he could.

By unedited, I understood that he meant they just put in the rough cut.

[Dunph]

Young's disdain of Thunderball is pretty evident. He left production to work on The Poppy is Also a Flower.  Thankfully Peter Hunt took over the reigns and did what he could.

Looks like Young and me share the same opinion then. I don't particularly like Thunderball, it's a bit of a creative mess, IMO.

[stamper]

Thunderball is schizophrenic, divided between hitchcockian set pieces and hardware underwater long stuff. Probably why Young let it go. But back on topic, rewatch Goldfinger again it IS very youngish in most places...

[spynovelfan]

But back on topic, rewatch Goldfinger again it IS very youngish in most places...

Sure, but that doesn't prove a thing. Of course it would be: Young had made the first two films, and they wanted another success. I'd be interested to know precisely what work Young did - but he does get quite a lot of stuff wrong in that interview, doesn't he? Like Fleming dying while swimming, for instance.

[doublenoughtspy]

Yes, Hamilton has said he was very much aware of the style of the first two Bond films, and he would have been stupid to ignore it.

Terence Young was a seminal influence on the Bond films. But was he the sole author of Dr No, like he has claimed in the past? No.

Did he "save" Goldfinger? Not from the production evidence I've seen and read.

I can picture a scenario where Peter Hunt was having trouble editing a scene, he solicted Terence's advice, and the advice was used.

And if he did "save" Goldfinger, why did the producers approach Hamilton for DAF rather than Young?

[Harmsway]

And if he did "save" Goldfinger, why did the producers approach Hamilton for DAF rather than Young?

Good point - if they were that untrusting in Hamilton's work. But Terence had probably turned his back on the series following THUNDERBALL.

[BlackFelix]

What gives the story of Young having any influence on "Goldfinger" any creedence is probably the fact that with each other Hamilton picture never matched the quality of Goldfinger. So the possibility of Young being a influence is more belivable.

[ACE]

I agree totally with the insightful posts of doublenoughtspy.

I think Peter Hunt once said that "Terence would take credit for the sun setting."

Young left Goldfinger because he was not being paid enough.

I think Goldfinger is the best James Bond film and, structurally, the best James Bond script. I think it is also the best directed James Bond film.

The question should be, do you think the director of Goldfinger made DN, FRWL and TB? No.

Young no doubtedly had some input in the editing stage, perhaps on pre-production for Thunderball. But, as doublenoughtspy asserts it was probably no more than the odd exchange with disciple Peter Hunt, who may have also propagated the Young=Goldfinger stories.

[stamper]

We should, however, note that the Bond movies quality took a dip as soon as Peter Hunt left. DAF should have been much improved in places, edited Hunt like. Perhaps I will try to cut down DAF to manage lenght one day.

[ACE]

We should, however, note that the Bond movies quality took a dip as soon as Peter Hunt left. DAF should have been much improved in places, edited Hunt like.

D'accord

[Turn]

Here's the part that never made sense to me in Young's claims:

B: What were some of the problems with it?

Y: One of the big problems with Goldfinger was that Bond got captured and put in jail very early in the film. I went back and I did a little work on it with Peter Hunt, and what we did was try to take some of the scenes that came later, and put them before, so that he wasn't captured until about the fifth reel. In the films that we'd made to date, he got into the villains hands in the last reel or two of the picture, but certainly an hour had passed before he was in jeopardy. But in that one he was captured in the first thirty minutes. I thought it was a defect in the storyline.

The defect was obviously someplace in Terence's memory or imagination. I can't find any instance in GF where scenes that came later would have been moved forward.

I've read accounts that Young was only asked back after Hamilton declined the chance to direct TB. And why would Hamilton have returned later in the series at all if another director had been allowed to tamper with his film? Not that directors have that much say in the Bonds.

[ACE]

Hamilton, of course, went off to work with Harry Saltzman for a few films.

I think he was asked back for DAF to try to replicate Goldfinger.
Hamilton wanted more money and got it. He was similarly persuaded for the RM films.

He was announced to direct The Spy Who Loved Me in 1975 but the Eon divorce delayed matters and he ended up developing Superman until shooting moved from Cinecitta in Rome to London which precluded Hamilton from staying with the project. He went on to direct Force 10 From Navarone.

[TheSaint]

He was announced to direct The Spy Who Loved Me in 1975 but the Eon divorce delayed matters and he ended up developing Superman until that too was delayed and he went on to direct Force 10 From Navarone.

I don't think the delay in starting Superman was what chased Hamilton away from that film. Studio filming was shifted from Italy to England so, tax-exile Hamilton had to beg off.

[ACE]

You're right, The Saint. I forgot. Thanks.

[doublenoughtspy]

I don't think I'd use the term "beg off".

He sued and got his entire director's fee.

Much like John Gavin was payed to not play James Bond, Guy Hamilton was paid to not direct Superman.

[TheSaint]

That's what I love about this site-all of our knowledge combined brings out the facts.

[triviachamp]

If Bond's capture was earlier in the film and this was changed in the editing room wouldn't this be in the script?

[ACE]

The Salkinds were at it again!

[ACE]

If Bond's capture was earlier in the film and this was changed in the editing room wouldn't this be in the script?

Usually yes, but not necessarily.

[Major Bloodnok]

In the DR. NO featurette Young says he wrote the scripts as well. Now, I'm a big fan of his but I think he, more likely, jiggered the scripts into place rather than "wrote" them. I wish he had done Goldfinger...

[Harmsway]

A Hamilton-helmed THUNDERBALL would certainly have been interesting.

[stamper]

Y: One of the big problems with Goldfinger was that Bond got captured and put in jail very early in the film. I went back and I did a little work on it with Peter Hunt, and what we did was try to take some of the scenes that came later, and put them before, so that he wasn't captured until about the fifth reel.

Thanks for the quote. As I said, I think actually what Young may have meant is that both Hunt and he worked a bit on expanding the first act scenes, while shortening the others. Those first act scenes are really leisury, thought you may not notice it, as they are cut very fast inside of them.



Y: In the films that we'd made to date, he got into the villains hands in the last reel or two of the picture, but certainly an hour had passed before he was in jeopardy. But in that one he was captured in the first thirty minutes. I thought it was a defect in the storyline.

Nothing we can dispute in that one, except perhaps watch the movie again, to see at what time Bond get captured ? Will be back after checking out.

[Streetworker]

[quote name='Dunph' post='508215' date='25 January 2006 - 18:28']
[quote name='doublenoughtspy' date='25 January 2006 - 17:03']Young's disdain of Thunderball is pretty evident. He left production to work on The Poppy is Also a Flower.

[ACE]

Young's disdain of Thunderball is pretty evident. He left production to work on The Poppy is Also a Flower. Thankfully Peter Hunt took over the reigns and did what he could.

Looks like Young and me share the same opinion then. I don't particularly like Thunderball, it's a bit of a creative mess, IMO.

Glad it's not just me. I regard Thunderball as the weakest of the Eon Bonds; but I get the feeling that's tantamount to Treason on CBN...

Then I too, will be arrested by the Bond Police. I love TB but it is way over-rated, not just on CBn but by the Bonscenti in general, most of whom came of age on the cinema release of this film. This is their SWLM, their TLD, their GE. Thank God TY stopped when he did.

[Harmsway]

[quote name='Streetworker' post='513808' date='6 February 2006 - 12:15']
[quote name='Dunph' post='508215' date='25 January 2006 - 18:28']
[quote name='doublenoughtspy' date='25 January 2006 - 17:03']Young's disdain of Thunderball is pretty evident. He left production to work on The Poppy is Also a Flower.