103 replies to this topic

[Seannery]

According to a AICN mole there is NO Le Chiffre in Casino Royale. That the main villian is Demetrius. Also Rose Byrne, Catrina Murino, Seydino Baldi and Simon Abkarian are reaffirmed as cast members with the announcement indeed on this Friday.

So if this is correct then Le Chiffre is POOF. And long live Demetrius. I could care less about the name change--and some here will be mortified.

[Mister Asterix]

[mra]So instead of a villain whose name means

[Seannery]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' date='18 January 2006 - 18:52'][mra]So instead of a villain whose name means

[Royal Dalton]

I suppose it's possible that 'Le Chiffre' might still be mentioned as a known alias of his, or something like that.

It would be a bit of a shame if they threw the name away altogether. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over it if they do.

[David Schofield]

I suppose it's possible that 'Le Chiffre' might still be mentioned as a known alias of his, or something like that.

It would be a bit of a shame if they threw the name away altogether. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over it if they do.

Just seems a shame, though. Le Chiffre is a Fleming name. Why not use it? What disadvantage does it have? Alternatively, what benefit doe "Demetrious" bring?

[Hawkeye]

That sucks. Being the first Bond villain Fleming created they really should keep the name out of respect if nothing else. And besides Le Chiffre is better; it sounds better, both as is and when it's translated. One of he great things about Fleming's villains was the colourful names - Scaramanga, Drax, OddJob, Blofeld, Sol Horror etc. Demetrius sounds like a second rate thug.

[Seannery]

That sucks. Being the first Bond villain Fleming created they really should keep the name out of respect if nothing else. And besides Le Chiffre is better; it sounds better, both as is and when it's translated. One of he great things about Fleming's villains was the colourful names - Scaramanga, Drax, OddJob, Blofeld, Sol Horror etc. Demetrius sounds like a second rate thug.

Are you saying they are making a Mash of it.

[Hawkeye]

Quite

Though i must say i'm PRO Craig and the film overall. Just don't like this no Le Chiffre business.

[zencat]

I still just don't buy this. I don't think they'd dump the name Le Chiffre anymore than they'd dump the name Goldfinger or Drax or Mr. Big. I don't think the character of Demetrius as described ("sleazy money launderer") seems like THE main villain, and I don't think they would cast Abkarian as a lead. It feels to me that this AICN "mole" is getting his/her "inside" information from reading news and speculation on IGN and CBn.

But I guess we'll know soon enough.

[Stax]

There isn't a thing in that AICN scooper's "report" that I didn't already write about days before on IGN or that the British press hasn't already revealed days before.

[Seannery]

There isn't a thing in that AICN scooper's "report" that I didn't already write about days before on IGN or that the British press hasn't already revealed days before.

Yes they mostly just say what you did. But Stax do you buy that there is no Le Chiffre and instead Demetrius is the main villian. Or are you with Zencat in thinking this is a rumor or guess?

[Harmsway]

I don't care whether he's named Le Chiffre or not.

[marktmurphy]

IF true (big if) it is a little bit of a shame as Le Chiffre is a cool name. But I will live with it and I'm sure any reason why will be uncovered.

[Ace Roberts]

I read the AICN report this morning and swatted it away with my fly swatter. This was not news - Stax provides us with news - AICN has gotten it wrong so far (remember how Moriarity swore Bana was Bond months ago?) - I just wish EON would confirm that news is forthcoming or declare a press conference!!

[Mister Asterix]

The only reason I can see for the name change is to distance the character from Orsen Welles in the 1967 film.

[Seannery]

I read the AICN report this morning and swatted it away with my fly swatter. This was not news - Stax provides us with news - AICN has gotten it wrong so far (remember how Moriarity swore Bana was Bond months ago?) - I just wish EON would confirm that news is forthcoming or declare a press conference!!

The only possible "new" news here would be if Le Chiffre is indeed NOT in the film and IF Demetrius is the main villian.

I've asked Stax if he believes this or not--hopefully we'll get his specific input on that. We should find out very soon if that nugget is true or false. Curious if Stax buys it or not--or if he's unsure at this point.

How about it Stax? What do you think?

[Loomis]

I don't think they'd dump the name Le Chiffre anymore than they'd dump the name Goldfinger or Drax or Mr. Big.

But Goldfinger, Drax and Mr. Big are "easier" names than Le Chiffre. I'm just thinking that the (pathetic) mentality of "But Americans won't understand the word 'revoked'" may be at work here, with the filmmakers assuming that audiences would find Le Chiffre too difficult to pronounce or something (not that audiences have to pronounce his name, of course, but you get my drift).

I don't think the character of Demetrius as described ("sleazy money launderer") seems like THE main villain....

But isn't that exactly what Le Chiffre is in the novel (more or less)?

....and I don't think they would cast Abkarian as a lead.

Ah, but would you have expected them to cast Toby Stephens as a lead?

[zencat]

Excellent points, Loomy.

And Eon sure didn't think twice about dumping the name Gala Brand, so...

[Genrewriter]

The name change wouldn't really bother me too much, all I really care about is the quality of the film.

[Loomis]

Excellent points, Loomy.

And Eon sure didn't think twice about dumping the name Gala Brand, so...

Wasn't Gala Brand supposed to be Rosamund Pike's character in DIE ANOTHER DAY, but they changed the name after she complained it sounded like a pork pie?

Or some story along those lines.

Anyway, I think "low key" villains, played by non-stars, are what we'll get for CASINO ROYALE. My gut (which has been wrong before and will be again) tells me that there's no Thandie Newton waiting in the wings, no (let's say) Robert De Niro about to be announced to a thrilled world as Le Chiffre.

Why? Well, because it would echo the approach taken by the Bourne films. I expect a strong flavour of Bourne in CR, along with a strong flavour of BATMAN BEGINS.

[Bon-san]

Just seems a shame, though. Le Chiffre is a Fleming name. Why not use it? What disadvantage does it have? Alternatively, what benefit doe "Demetrious" bring?

EXACTLY.

Demetrius sounds like a villain from a third-rate, discount Bond knock-off from 1966.

Dare I say that Tybalt never has his name changed!

[Ace Roberts]

Excellent points, Loomy.

And Eon sure didn't think twice about dumping the name Gala Brand, so...

Wasn't Gala Brand supposed to be Rosamund Pike's character in DIE ANOTHER DAY, but they changed the name after she complained it sounded like a pork pie?

Or some story along those lines.

Anyway, I think "low key" villains, played by non-stars, are what we'll get for CASINO ROYALE. My gut (which has been wrong before and will be again) tells me that there's no Thandie Newton waiting in the wings, no (let's say) Robert De Niro about to be announced to a thrilled world as Le Chiffre.

Why? Well, because it would echo the approach taken by the Bourne films. I expect a strong flavour of Bourne in CR, along with a strong flavour of BATMAN BEGINS.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, both the Bourne series and Batman Begins used named actors in supporting roles. Clive Owen, Brian Cox, Julia Styles, Joan Allen , Morgan Freeman, Liam Neeson. Can Casino Royale be successful with Judi Dench and Craig as the only name stars? Just asking.

[Seannery]

Just seems a shame, though. Le Chiffre is a Fleming name. Why not use it? What disadvantage does it have? Alternatively, what benefit doe "Demetrious" bring?

EXACTLY.

Demetrius sounds like a villain from a third-rate, discount Bond knock-off from 1966.

Dare I say that Tybalt never has his name changed!

Ah but Bon-san--Bond isn't quite Shakespeare.

[K1Bond007]

I still just don't buy this. I don't think they'd dump the name Le Chiffre anymore than they'd dump the name Goldfinger or Drax or Mr. Big. I don't think the character of Demetrius as described ("sleazy money launderer") seems like THE main villain, and I don't think they would cast Abkarian as a lead. It feels to me that this AICN "mole" is getting his/her "inside" information from reading news and speculation on IGN and CBn.

But I guess we'll know soon enough.

This is what I'm thinking. I think it would be a huge mistake to make a Casino Royale film and not have Le Chiffre in some capacity. If he's not in the film, then I'm at least expecting a name drop like in Dr. No where Dr. No announces he works for SPECTRE. Another possibility is that Demetrius, like Le Chiffre, is just another alias. Something like this. To say there is no such person as Le Chiffre (i.e. no appearance, name-drop, or other reasoning for his not being in some capacity a part of the story) is big mistake and just plain wrong.

Overall, I've been pretty optimisitc about the film and thus far everything I've heard I haven't really disproved of. If this is indeed true, then this will be the first negative thing I have against it. I guess we'll see in November.

[Bon-san]

Just seems a shame, though. Le Chiffre is a Fleming name. Why not use it? What disadvantage does it have? Alternatively, what benefit doe "Demetrious" bring?

EXACTLY.

Demetrius sounds like a villain from a third-rate, discount Bond knock-off from 1966.

Dare I say that Tybalt never has his name changed!

Ah but Bon-san--Bond isn't quite Shakespeare.

Perhaps not. But my respect for Ian Fleming is not exceeded by my respect for Willy Shakespeare.

[Loomis]

Correct me if I'm wrong though, both the Bourne series and Batman Begins used named actors in supporting roles. Clive Owen, Brian Cox, Julia Styles, Joan Allen , Morgan Freeman, Liam Neeson.

Well, the Bournes are less star-studded than BATMAN BEGINS, and I think CASINO ROYALE will take the Bourne approach to casting rather than the BB approach. I'm not sure that Owen was all that well-known when he appeared in THE BOURNE IDENTITY, and the likes of Allen and Cox may be familiar to audiences but are definitely not "stars" like Angelina Jolie and Naomi Watts.

Can Casino Royale be successful with Judi Dench and Craig as the only name stars?

I think so. Look at THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS. Or GOLDENEYE. Or quite a few other Bond films. I'm firmly of the belief that "James Bond" is the only "name" the filmmakers need, and Craig's star power will effectively be doubled on this occasion since the novelty value of a new Bond actor will be a powerful audience draw. "Stars" are not needed, and I don't think the filmmakers should look around for another Sophie Marceau or Halle Berry to play Vesper.

[Seannery]

Just seems a shame, though. Le Chiffre is a Fleming name. Why not use it? What disadvantage does it have? Alternatively, what benefit doe "Demetrious" bring?

EXACTLY.

Demetrius sounds like a villain from a third-rate, discount Bond knock-off from 1966.

Dare I say that Tybalt never has his name changed!

Ah but Bon-san--Bond isn't quite Shakespeare.

Perhaps not. But my respect for Ian Fleming is not exceeded by my respect for Willy Shakespeare.

I take it you are not an English professor then.

[Seannery]

Excellent points, Loomy.

And Eon sure didn't think twice about dumping the name Gala Brand, so...

Wasn't Gala Brand supposed to be Rosamund Pike's character in DIE ANOTHER DAY, but they changed the name after she complained it sounded like a pork pie?

Or some story along those lines.

Anyway, I think "low key" villains, played by non-stars, are what we'll get for CASINO ROYALE. My gut (which has been wrong before and will be again) tells me that there's no Thandie Newton waiting in the wings, no (let's say) Robert De Niro about to be announced to a thrilled world as Le Chiffre.

Why? Well, because it would echo the approach taken by the Bourne films. I expect a strong flavour of Bourne in CR, along with a strong flavour of BATMAN BEGINS.

Loomis almost all Bond films go the low key route with the supporting roles and villians hence no need to follow Bourne. Bourne is more in Bond's footsteps there. And again no need for Bond to follow Bourne to be successful today.

[Bon-san]

Just seems a shame, though. Le Chiffre is a Fleming name. Why not use it? What disadvantage does it have? Alternatively, what benefit doe "Demetrious" bring?

EXACTLY.

Demetrius sounds like a villain from a third-rate, discount Bond knock-off from 1966.

Dare I say that Tybalt never has his name changed!

Ah but Bon-san--Bond isn't quite Shakespeare.

Perhaps not. But my respect for Ian Fleming is not exceeded by my respect for Willy Shakespeare.

I take it you are not an English professor then.

No, although I did take a minor in English in college. Read lots and lots of Willy. Wonderful, brilliant stuff. So is Fleming's.

[Loomis]

Loomis almost all Bond films go the low key route with the supporting roles and villians....

Excluding, of course, the most recent couple of Bond films.