144 replies to this topic

[level007]

Well... I maybe the only one to think about it but.... maybe they should consider having SPECTRE back again...
:-) i know it's lame. But if CR is meant to be one of bond first mission, this means he has yet met neither SPECTRE nor Blofeld. in the past, the Bond series didn't really pay attention to continuity (Why Blofeld didn't recognise Bond in OHMSS ? , etc).
So why put bond against this organisation. You know want SPECTRE back. It’s like that! Lol

Well, there is still this issue with the copyright of Spectre and Blofeld. But come on EON, you should be able to do something!

A good move would be to have the Union. I think the name is quite good; it’s maybe more realistic than SPECTRE, which is a bit 60’s you know… Bring back the Union with maybe a different story than theses in the Raymond Book

[YOLT]

An Imaginary country? They must be copying Ten-Ten

[whitesox]

Just one question: for a long time, EON had not the rights to use the name "S.P.E.C.T.R.E." because our friend McClory had those rights. But what is the situation now? Because if EON has the rights to use again the famous name of Bond nemesis, it's technically (and legally) not impossible that both S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and Blofeld are back in C.R.
Right or wrong?

[David Schofield]

It could be Syria, surely, without making a country up. Its terrorsist central at the moment isn't it? Any CBner's want to defend Syria or how much CR would lose at the Syrian box-office as a result?

Dump on Syria, Daniel, EON, I say.

[XXX]

I like the fictitious country idea.
After all, SPECTRE and later the Russians with General Gogol and the likes had little to do with reality as well.
Not to mention countless millionare villains, by which logic every rich man on planet has some secret evil plan...

[YOLT]

It could be Syria, surely, without making a country up. Its terrorsist central at the moment isn't it? Any CBner's want to defend Syria or how much CR would lose at the Syrian box-office as a result?

Dump on Syria, Daniel, EON, I say.

Why not U.S.A? Everyone knows that the power behind Al-Qaede is the U.S.A. Just watch TLD.

[Roebuck]

Given the current geo-political situation, better a fictitious country than one that may either A) cease to become a credible threat or B ) cease to exist altogether in-between the making of Casino Royale and Bond 22.

[zencat]

Just one question: for a long time, EON had not the rights to use the name "S.P.E.C.T.R.E." because our friend McClory had those rights. But what is the situation now? Because if EON has the rights to use again the famous name of Bond nemesis, it's technically (and legally) not impossible that both S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and Blofeld are back in C.R.
Right or wrong?

For whatever reasons, EON will still not use SPECTRE. Even the new From Russia With Love videogame changes SPECTRE to OCTOPUS.

[blueman]

I really hope we do get a trilogy of films featuring this new terrorist orginazation. They can model it on Fleming's SPECTRE trilogy.

My own original titles for Bond 22 and 23.

Casino Royale - 2006 - New terrorist group introduced.
Serpent's Head - 2007? - Bond meets the leader of the terrorist group.
State of War - 2009? - Bond travels to the terrorist state, defeats them and kills their leader.

Dude, you have the exact same idea I've had for freakin' years! Well sort of...

CR sets up like OHMSS, at the end Bond is pissed, the next film he gets sent on some bandaid mission (ala YOLT) and inadvertently gets his chance at revenge against the new big bad. Might we even finally get the Garden of Death? With a giant squid thrown in as well?

The third film can set up like TMWTGG, with Bond arriving in London to etc. etc.

Makes the Bourne quote by Wilson a little more easy to take, those two films follow a very similar story arc...

Lots of yummy Fleming possibilities.

Edited by blueman, 22 October 2005 - 04:49 PM.

[David Schofield]

It could be Syria, surely, without making a country up. Its terrorsist central at the moment isn't it? Any CBner's want to defend Syria or how much CR would lose at the Syrian box-office as a result?

Dump on Syria, Daniel, EON, I say.

Why not U.S.A? Everyone knows that the power behind Al-Qaede is the U.S.A. Just watch TLD.

Well, without debating the political and historical accuracy in its entirety, it might not do the box office much good, don't you think?

[zencat]

Perhaps Kamran Shah is the new Blofeld.

[Gobi-1]

Shah becoming a terrorist leader is something I've thought about as well. As James Bond: The Legacy points out he and Osama Bin Laden have similar backgrounds. It would be very daring for EON to do that but I don't know if actor Art Malik would want to play another terrorist as he did in True Lies.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

Perhaps Kamran Shah is the new Blofeld.

Or just back as Kamran Shah in general. Might make for a really cool link to the past if the whole idea of a flashback to Bond's first mission only being part of the movie idea pans out.

[spynovelfan]

For the last few months it has been mentioned that my friend actor Gulshan Grover is being considered for a part in CR.His name is even on the official website (He is being considered).

Um, you said he'd told some Indian channel he'd been signed - now he's just being considered. How odd. And where is he mentioned on the official site?

On topic, I agree that fictional countries are a bit silly, but they did it pretty effectively in SPOOKS recently. Just invented a Middle Eastern state with a name like Quarat or something, only referenced it briefly and left it at that. It could work easily enough. So could SMERSH - just invent the name of 'a former Soviet Republic' and say that fanatical proto-Communists whose fathers were in the original SMERSH have reformed it, and Bob's your John Gardner novel.

[INTREPID]

Well, the one thing this development makes me think of is straight out of the book of CR.

Suicide bombers try to blow up Bond as he leaves the casino near the beginning of the book.

There ya go. It's a natural.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

Well, the one thing this development makes me think of is straight out of the book of CR.

Suicide bombers try to blow up Bond as he leaves the casino near the beginning of the book.

There ya go.  It's a natural.

Well...they weren't really suicide bombers...but I see your point.

[Genrewriter]

Given the current geo-political situation, better a fictitious country than one that may either A) cease to become a credible threat or cease to exist altogether in-between the making of Casino Royale and Bond 22.

Agreed. I like this idea, it's current and works for the story.

[Jack Bauer]

Poker's still a bad idea. Hoorah, lets have 2 foreign to America people play some old Texas hold'em! That makes worlds of sense. Tell me, are they at least playing this game of hold'em in the states? Otherwise, it makes zero sense.

But the organization idea sounds good. I like it.

[Bond_Bishop]

Really interesting. I think this will be very good, I like the idea of a fictious country.

[YOLT]

It could be Syria, surely, without making a country up. Its terrorsist central at the moment isn't it? Any CBner's want to defend Syria or how much CR would lose at the Syrian box-office as a result?

Dump on Syria, Daniel, EON, I say.

Why not U.S.A? Everyone knows that the power behind Al-Qaede is the U.S.A. Just watch TLD.

Well, without debating the political and historical accuracy in its entirety, it might not do the box office much good, don't you think?

Well, we have never had a country that is totally Bonds enemy. Why now? There had been American and British enemies before. Even in DAD the Korean guy is bad because he was educated in the West.

[daman3755]

Poker's still a bad idea. Hoorah, lets have 2 foreign to America people play some old Texas hold'em! That makes worlds of sense. Tell me, are they at least playing this game of hold'em in the states? Otherwise, it makes zero sense.

But the organization idea sounds good. I like it.

Not true. The World Poker Tour is a hit on television channels across the world and features poker players from around the globe. I don't know, at first I was not too keen on the idea of changing a classic game around, but like it's been said, the plot makes more sense. A lot of money is at stake during a no-limit game. I've been involved in a couple of them and it's enough to make your palms sweat the entire tournament. Trying to keep a firm poker face and knowing that money could be a win away - it's kind of tense. Just don't screw up the continuity - well, actually, you can erase the majority of DAD haha.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

It could be Syria, surely, without making a country up. Its terrorsist central at the moment isn't it? Any CBner's want to defend Syria or how much CR would lose at the Syrian box-office as a result?

Dump on Syria, Daniel, EON, I say.

Why not U.S.A? Everyone knows that the power behind Al-Qaede is the U.S.A. Just watch TLD.

Well, without debating the political and historical accuracy in its entirety, it might not do the box office much good, don't you think?

Well, we have never had a country that is totally Bonds enemy. Why now? There had been American and British enemies before. Even in DAD the Korean guy is bad because he was educated in the West.

Uhm...that's hardly the reason he was evil...and even if it's a factor it's not the entire reason.

[Harmsway]

It could be Syria, surely, without making a country up. Its terrorsist central at the moment isn't it? Any CBner's want to defend Syria or how much CR would lose at the Syrian box-office as a result?

Dump on Syria, Daniel, EON, I say.

Why not U.S.A? Everyone knows that the power behind Al-Qaede is the U.S.A. Just watch TLD.

Well, without debating the political and historical accuracy in its entirety, it might not do the box office much good, don't you think?

Well, we have never had a country that is totally Bonds enemy. Why now? There had been American and British enemies before. Even in DAD the Korean guy is bad because he was educated in the West.

It's called communist Russia. Russia was Bond's undisputable enemy throughout the Fleming novels, and the early Connery films have that as well. It was only the Roger films that made Russia more ambiguous.

[Stax]

They are creating a fictitious country so they don't have to worry about ticking off anybody from a real country and, more likely, having their film (esp. it's release) impacted by something that would happen (i.e., a terrorist attack in that country, an invasion, a natural disaster). If it's a fictitious country all of these external events beyond the filmmakers' control almost become moot. The West Wing invented a fictitious middle eastern country for the same reasons.

Edited by Stax, 24 October 2005 - 03:18 AM.

[Mona Lovesit]

Ugh!!!

Terrorists/terrorism!

Not another topic "ripped from the headlines." I don't know about this. There's enough of this in the news without paying money seeing it on the big screen.

Bepends on how it is handled, I guess. Will have to wait and see, won't I.

[Hansen]

They are creating a fictitious country so they don't have to worry about ticking off anybody from a real country and, more likely, having their film (esp. it's release) impacted by something that would happen (i.e., a terrorist attack in that country, an invasion, a natural disaster). If it's a fictitious country all of these external events beyond the filmmakers' control almost become moot. The West Wing invented a fictitious middle eastern country for the same reasons.

It's quite in Fleming's spirit : after al, Royale-Les-Eaux does not exist either.

[spynovelfan]

Russia was Bond's undisputable enemy throughout the Fleming novels, and the early Connery films have that as well. It was only the Roger films that made Russia more ambiguous.

Russia wasn't Bond's undisputable enemy throughout the Fleming novels and it wasn't just the Moore films that made Russia more ambiguous. Fleming created SPECTRE (or co-created!) for similar reasons as they are now creating a fictitious country for CASINO ROYALE:

'I closed down SMERSH, although I was devoted to the good old apparat, because, first of all, Khrushchev did in fact disband SMERSH himself, although its operations are still carried out by a subsection of the K.G.B., the Russian secret service. But in that book - I think it was Thunderball that I was writing at the time of the proposed summit meeting - I thought well, it's no good going on if we're going to make friends with the Russians. I know them, I like them personally, as anyone would, as anyone would like the Chinese if he knew them. I thought, I don't want to go on ragging them like this. So I invented SPECTRE as an international crime organisation which contained elements of SMERSH and the Gestapo and the Mafia - the cosy old Cosa Nostra - which, of course, is a much more elastic fictional device than SMERSH, which was no fictional device, but the real thing. But that was really the reason I did it, so as not to rag the Russians too much. But if they go on squeezing off cyanide pistols in people's faces, I may have to make them cosa mia again.'

From his interview with Playboy, published in 1964.

Even before THUNDERBALL, the Russians weren't always the enemy, or even nearly always. In CR, yes: but in LALD it's highly tangential (and extraordinarily implausible) that Mr Big is a SMERSH agent. MOONRAKER is not about Russians, and neither is DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER.

[David Schofield]

Even before THUNDERBALL, the Russians weren't always the enemy, or even nearly always. In CR, yes: but in LALD it's highly tangential (and extraordinarily implausible) that Mr Big is a SMERSH agent. MOONRAKER is not about Russians, and neither is DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER.

Well, Russia certainly assists Drax to a great degree by providing the atomic warhead (in those pre-SPECTRE days Drax couldn't just get one on the open, market via private enterprise , Goldfinger is the paymaster of SMERSH (though like you on Mr Big, it seems a little silly and unnecessary, improved by the movie, though again don't the Russian's provide the nuclear device for cutting open the vault at Fort Knox), and in a View To a Kill its definately the Russians spying, plus of course the classic, FRWL.

[spynovelfan]

Take your point on Drax, though it's about two sentences in the book. Not sure what you're saying otherwise, though. I'm not denying that Russia features as an enemy in some Fleming novels. I was disagreeing with Harmsway's statement:

'Russia was Bond's undisputable enemy throughout the Fleming novels, and the early Connery films have that as well. It was only the Roger films that made Russia more ambiguous.'

Russia was *not* Bond's indisputable enemy throughout the novels. It wasn't his indisputable enemy in THUNDERBALL, LIVE AND LET DIE, and others. In the novels in which Russia featured, it was, I agree, undisputably Bond's enemy. But it wasn't throughout the novels.

I thought i was being pretty clear.

[David Schofield]

I thought i was being pretty clear.

But of course you were.

You're right, Russia is merely "background" in the Fleming's. I suppose part of that is to ensure they remain as "spy" thrillers; Fleming's intention to "write the spy story to end all spy stories" pre-Casino, couldn't have worked for a first time author to say I'm going to invent a new action thriller genre.

Casino is essentially a spy novel, ditto FRWL. LALD and Goldfinger totally unnecessarily continue the use of Russia and I maintain they could really have been deleted from Goldfinger and Moonraker other than the need for an acceptable "quartermaster" before Fleming introduced SPECTRE.

That said, I suppose Fleming introduces Bond battling SMERSH and developing a hatred of them. I think the emphasis that Bond is MI6's agent battling the MGB/KGB in the Cold War of the 50s as a method of maintaining the "realism" of both Bond and his work flavours the novels and hence gives the impression "Russia" was involved more often than it actually was.