32 replies to this topic

[Harmsway]

With Casino Royale coming up ahead, and the direction of some sort of origin story taking place (whether it's an origin about a young Bond who'll have matured by the end or mid-30s Bond who needs to lose his arrogant ways and become a wisened secret agent), what could the pre-title be? I'm a bit mystified myself. Will they have a pre-title that doesn't feature 007 (ala LALD and TMWTGG?)? Will they do something low-key? What are your guy's thoughts?

[Tarl_Cabot]

It'll probably be some sort of Paramilitary operation where he earns his 00 status, maybe something like a Splinter Cell type mission....It could be very cool.

[Harmsway]

It'll probably be some sort of Paramilitary operation where he earns his 00 status, maybe something like a Splinter Cell type mission....It could be very cool.

Tis true! A paramilitary operation could be really cool, especially if they do it in the Splinter Cell style of a lot of sneaking and covert ops stuff.

On the flip side, it would certainly be nice from a Bond fan standpoint to see a throwback to the Fleming origin of the 00-status, though. Something nice a quiet, more in the Connery-esque mold of pre-title sequences.

[Stephenson]

If CR is expected to be a quieter and more contemplative Bond movie, then I expect they will make the PTS a big, blow-em up affair to get the audience excited and take some pressure off the new guy ("Look! Things haven't changed that much!"). Something along the lines of Dalton's or Brosnan's intro. After the credits, they'll get down to the "gritty, dark" stuff.

Although, if it is Craig, IMO they need to let him use all his charm as soon as possible to get the audience rooting for him (at least until the shock wears off!). A quiet, more Connery or Moore-esque start would be great!

[neversaynever]

I hope they reduce the length a bit - I don't want a TWINE-like PTS where you could be forgiven for thinking "are they actually ever going to have a title sequence?!".

I think something like LALD, where Bond didn't actually feature, or TND, where it took a long time to actually get around to showing Bond, would be a good way of introducing Bond. Keep up the suspense! (I can't remember how Moore actually was introduced in LALD - can anyone help?!)

[Harmsway]

I hope they reduce the length a bit - I don't want a TWINE-like PTS where you could be forgiven for thinking "are they actually ever going to have a title sequence?!".

I think something like LALD, where Bond didn't actually feature, or TND, where it took a long time to actually get around to showing Bond, would be a good way of introducing Bond.  Keep up the suspense!  (I can't remember how Moore actually was introduced in LALD - can anyone help?!)

Well, Moore was introduced in LALD at his apartment after the main titles.

They definitely need to refrain from showing Bond for a bit - it's pretty much standard Bond introduction fare now that they did it with Lazenby (I love Lazenby's introduction), Dalton, and Brosnan (incidentally, Brosnan has two pre-titles that take that approach: GE and TND).

[Johnboy007]

James Bond taking out a foreign agent from high atop a New York skyrise, and becoming a 00. Just like the book (kinda).

[Loeffelholz]

Well, if it had been a truly Young Bond (Cavill), I would have put the assassination of the Japanese guy in New York City, as described in the book. Of course, things go horrbly awry, and so we have the requisite chase/fight scenes. My reasoning was that with a Young Bond, you'd want to see him kill in cold blood, or do something else very Bond-like, early on.

Conversely, if Craig gets it (as it appears he will ), he should do something very Bond-like---in the way of being charming, sophisticated, etc.---in short, he should do something straightaway to allay our fears.

For me, Brosnan owned Bond from the moment in the GE pre-credit sequence where he unhesitatingly gets on the motorcycle and chases the plane off the side of the cliff. That moment, IMHO, is when Brosnan became Bond.

The new Bond, depending on who he is, will need something like this to set the table.

[crheath]

I think it will open something like the sequence in the Living Daylights. It will have some operation going on. Then somebody out of nowhere will perform a great stunt to save the world. This somebody will be identified as a person worthy of 00 status. They will say he is promoted Mr. ____________. The somebody will reply, "Bond, James Bond."

[neversaynever]

For me, Brosnan owned Bond from the moment in the GE pre-credit sequence where he unhesitatingly gets on the motorcycle and chases the plane off the side of the cliff.  That moment, IMHO, is when Brosnan became Bond.

That moment is the moment when everyone in the cinema I was in burst out laughing.

But back on topic, I think there are broadly two approaches they could take to introduce a new Bond - the "keep everyone in suspense" approach (as described by me above, and seen in OHMSS, LALD, and to a lesser extent GE), or otherwise make Bond the very first thing you see and make the PTS all about him. Not quite sure how that would work, but I just think the only alternative to keeping him hidden for a while is to make him the center of attention. It's one or the other really...

[Harmsway]

[quote name='neversaynever' date='12 October 2005 - 23:25'][quote name='Loeffelholz' date='13 October 2005 - 04:07']For me, Brosnan owned Bond from the moment in the GE pre-credit sequence where he unhesitatingly gets on the motorcycle and chases the plane off the side of the cliff.

[Loeffelholz]

[quote name='neversaynever' date='13 October 2005 - 04:25'][quote name='Loeffelholz' date='13 October 2005 - 04:07']For me, Brosnan owned Bond from the moment in the GE pre-credit sequence where he unhesitatingly gets on the motorcycle and chases the plane off the side of the cliff.

[Harmsway]

[quote name='Loeffelholz' date='12 October 2005 - 23:32'][quote name='neversaynever' date='13 October 2005 - 04:25'][quote name='Loeffelholz' date='13 October 2005 - 04:07']For me, Brosnan owned Bond from the moment in the GE pre-credit sequence where he unhesitatingly gets on the motorcycle and chases the plane off the side of the cliff.

[Loeffelholz]

$$$$$

Quite right, though. Let's not be so materialistic.

All right, no laughs in Craig's CR. Let's not disturb the quiet of an empty theatre.

Edited by Loeffelholz, 13 October 2005 - 04:40 AM.

[Harmsway]

$$$$$

Quite right, though.  Let's not be so materialistic.

All right, no laughs in Craig's CR.  Let's not disturb the quiet of an empty theatre.

There's a difference between humor and something that's physically impossible and ridiculous. I like humor in my Bonds, but that moment was just stupid. And I hardly think that THAT moment was the one thing that convinced people Brosnan was Bond - it certainly isn't what did it for me.

[Loeffelholz]

Was it the CGI para-surfing?

[neversaynever]

$$$$$

Quite right, though.  Let's not be so materialistic.

All right, no laughs in Craig's CR.  Let's not disturb the quiet of an empty theatre.

They weren't good laughs. People were laughing because it was so ridiculous. It wasn't like the Beach Boys snow-surfing moment, where the humour was intentional. This was just a really stupid 'stunt' that only detracted from what was an otherwise brilliant PTS. And it just gets stupider on repeated viewing! In fact, Brosnan has had some shockers: the TWINE escape in a balloon?! At least the DAD CGI bit wasn't in the PTS...

[Harmsway]

Was it the CGI para-surfing? 

Worst moment in the entire series. I want to gouge my eyes out everytime I watch that...

[Harmsway]

Now, in an attempt to reel this topic back on track... I think I'm preferring the idea of a low-key pre-title, especially with the low-key nature of the film. Having an action blow-out in the introduction just seems like it wouldn't work necessarily... Bond films kind of need to crescendo.

Something akin to the amount of tension and thrill of the FRWL pre-title would be great (it's my favorite pre-title in the entire series... pure gold, right there!).

[Loeffelholz]

EVERY Bond movie since the '60's has at least one cringeworthy moment, where the audience laughs at the outlandishness of the moment. Is it a 'good' laugh? Well I don't know, but the accountants and the Broccolis must've enjoyed it.

My main point, which has been lost in the whole 'Brosnan going over the cliff' thing, is that the new Bond, whomever he is, should do something in the PTS which eases our misgivings about the actor. If it's Cavill, have him kill somebody in cold blood. If it's Craig, let him do something charming and sophisticated.

Edited by Loeffelholz, 13 October 2005 - 04:58 AM.

[K1Bond007]

I guess it depends on the direction.

If it were a young Bond (i.e. Cavill) wouldn't it be kind of neat to see him in the Navy doing something extrodinary to get his stripes as a 00? Then pull a GoldenEye/Die Another Day (time elapsed) and after the PTS he's in the 00 section, but hasn't done anything that big - cue the rest of the movie.

If it's Craig (please don't make the obvious joke of this in a reply, you're not clever or funny) I'd like to see more of a throw back to Dr. No with perhaps Bond trumping some dame at the Baccarat (that's right) table and later scoring with her a la Sylvia Trench. In a way it would build up to the future "card" playing games in the film and effectively introduce the new Bond. Just don't rip off Dr. No. It'd also show a different direction for Bond. When was the last time we had a PTS where something didn't explode or he didn't perform a huge death-defying stunt? The Man with the Golden Gun? If they require action then lets hope for something in the vein of the first half of The World Is Not Enough where Bond takes out a few guys in a moment of action then escapes by jumping out of window. That was cool. I always thought the second half detracted from the coolness of that scene and was superfluous to the actual plot of the film (considering the material they cut for why "Cigar girl" was there).

[Loeffelholz]

If it IS actually Craig ( ), Eon should take pains to convince us straightaway that he is James Bond. A casino scene may be just the thing.

[dinovelvet]

Go for a TLD mini-mission introduction. Show us in the first five minutes that Daniel Craig IS Ian Fleming's James Bond. Let's see him kick some , display some charm, and score with a lady. If the first time we see his face is done like they did with Dalton in TLD, it'll send chills down our collective spine.

Or on the other hand, go the Rog route and introduce him when he's asleep

[dinovelvet]

You know, thinking about this, I always liked Dalton's intro the best, but Lazenby's was FANTASTIC. The way he attacked the goons on the beach with unbelievable ferocity, you thought he was going to kill both of them with his bare hands. It was amazingly brutal stuff, the way he holds that guy's head in the water/sand, clubs the other one in the face with an oar, and the punches that send the goons almost flying. Top notch stuff. Basically if they can do an intro that's half as cool as the one given to Lazenby and Dalton, it'll be good.

[Loeffelholz]

The 'toughness' thing is where I give Craig extra credit. I think he can potentially be the toughest Bond since Connery.

It's the suaveness and scoring with the ladies that will be a challenge...

[Pussfeller]

As for the PTS, I'd like to see something exciting, tense, memorable, and totally unrelated to the main plot. Of course, it should set the tone and theme for the entire film. But I want to see something along the lines of MR, which (if you ignore the Jaws slapstick) had a perfect PTS. It should take place in a location that doesn't figure into the plot, involve characters who don't show up later, etc.

Here's my idea to incorporate Bond's killing of the Japanese agent: It's dusk in New York City. An armored Crown Vic pulls up to a slick corporate office and dislodges four men, all Japanese. One is a gray-haired man in a raincoat. The others are bulky young men with polo shirts, sunglasses, and sideburns. A young woman who has been waiting sees the gray-haired man and walks over to him. We sense something is amiss when he doesn't react to her. She is concerned. He says something to her and she cautiously follows them into the revolving doors of the building. After they've gone inside, a man in commando attire steps out from behind some bushes and walks up to the doors. He tries opening them and finds, to his consternation, that they've been locked. Two other men emerge from the bushes, visibly worried. The first man says "They've closed it up. Damn it!" They retreat to the bushes. One man: "Send him in." Second man, into radio: "Agent 7, commence. Repeat, agent 7, commence."

Upstairs, we see the hallway of a typical Wall Street law office. An elevator door opens out of shot and the middle-aged man and the young woman cross in front of the camera with their three attendants. They enter a small office, young woman first, old man second... The window is open. Suddenly, the heavy office door slams into the first young man as he is halfway through the door. It has been kicked with astounding force. The man's hand is caught in the door and audibly broken. His gun falls to the floor. From behind the door emerges James Bond, Agent 7, in climbing gear. When the door bounces back open, the young man is kneeling in the threshold, cradling his shattered wrist. Bond shoots him in the head at close range and kicks him onto his back. The woman screams, obviously not realizing what is going on. The other two men are nowhere to be seen. Bond closes and locks the door and quickly speaks into his radio: "Agent 7 requesting assistance. I'm on floor... 67." The gray-haired man picks up the other gun and looks nervously at Bond. Bond confirms that he is their double agent and tells him to stay in the room.

Bond goes in search of the two remaining men. After a fruitless search of the offices, he enters a restroom and turns on the lights. One panel has been popped out of the drop ceiling. He fires a shot into the ceiling and hears movement above. He fires another shot and a man comes crashing through the ceiling into one of the stalls. Bond opens the door to check that he's dead, then moves on.

The other man is more difficult. Bond pursues him through the building, they exchange fire a few times, and finally they end up facing off on an outdoor maintenance deck about sixty stories up. Bond nearly finishes him off, but an enemy sharpshooter on another building grazes Bond's shin, knocking him down and allowing the other man to escape. After a brief game of elevator tag, Bond catches up with the man in the lobby. The man tries to escape, but the doors are still locked. Bond, now limping and extremely pissed off, corners him and strangles him with his necktie, in a gritty and protracted manner. He kicks and tries to escape, but Bond chokes him until he's delirious, then flips his head into the marble floor. Bond is left holding his tie and catching his breath. He puts the tie back on, and as he is adjusting it, the screen suddenly cuts to the titles.

[Loeffelholz]

I like it Pussfeller.

[Pussfeller]

I figure it has to be a hard-boiled affair. If Craig becomes Bond, he has to make a very strong impression very early in the film, much as Lazenby did in OHMSS. Craig is really good at kicking , so I hope they put his skills to use.

The more I think about this, the more excited I am. This is the first real piece of news in months.

[Byron]

How about a first shot of the Casino with the subtitle :

"South of France - 10 Years Ago"


To whitewash the disappointment of the 90's Brosnan era.

Edited by Byron, 13 October 2005 - 06:27 AM.

[Pussfeller]

They did it to Dalton. They might as well do it to Brosnan.