184 replies to this topic

[stamper]

What I meant is regarding 80's action, LD is pretty tame, while movies like Commando (see that scene on the beach where Arnold gets fitted with weapons etc...) were very Bondish in parts, and pretty efficient action wise, they raised the bar, which the 80's bond failed to meet.

[icecold]

TLD is one of the best of the series. You is crazy, sir.

[Judo chop]

I put TLD in the top half of Bond films. And although the humor is much drier, I think Dalton was plenty funny in it. Not Moore-funny, but more than Broz ever was.

"We're in a Russian airbase in the middle of Afghanastan!"

(come to think of it... when has Pierce Brosnan EVER been funny as Bond?)

[Mr_Wint]

What I meant is regarding 80's action, LD is pretty tame, while movies like Commando (see that scene on the beach where Arnold gets fitted with weapons etc...) were very Bondish in parts, and pretty efficient action wise, they raised the bar, which the 80's bond failed to meet.

Am I the only one who thinks Commando is one of the worst actionfilms ever made? I can't see how Commando "raise the bar" nor can I see anything Bondish in that film.

[stamper]

OK, I'll try to explain : movies like Mad Max, Terminator, Commando, Die Hard, really pushed the envellope action wise, mixing both humor and action, all inherited from the Bond formula. You would have to wait for TND to see this kind of hard hitting, non stop action on screen. I think the eighties Bond were behind their time by then re the action, thought the one liners were great.

"Whiskas ?" Roger Moore, AVTAK

Roger's best line, ever

[Mr_Wint]

OK, I'll try to explain : movies like Mad Max, Terminator, Commando, Die Hard, really pushed the envellope action wise, mixing both humor and action, all inherited from the Bond formula. You would have to wait for TND to see this kind of hard hitting, non stop action on screen. I think the eighties Bond were behind their time by then re the action, thought the one liners were great.

"Whiskas ?" Roger Moore, AVTAK

Roger's best line, ever

Surely, there's more than "Whiskas?" in the eighties. In what movie released during the eighties can you find an action-scene as fast and intense as the car chase in TLD...? Or the ski-chase in FYEO...? I saw The Living Daylights in the eighties and it was a more than satisfying action/adventure film!

I fail to see your point since I think the first four Bondfilms in the eighties are far, far, better than anything in Tomorrow Never Dies.

[Gobi-1]

In what movie released during the eighties can you find an action-scene as fast and intense as the car chase in TLD...? Or the ski-chase in FYEO...?

Truck chase - Raiders of the Lost Ark
Mine car chase - Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
Tank vs Horse - Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
Speederbikes - Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi

In the 1980s the Bond films didn't raise the bar when it came to action scenes as much as the competition did, not until the tanker chase in Licence To Kill. Bond's action scenes were still great though.

[Arch Stanton]

I don't see how anyone could say 80's action films like The Terminator, Commando, Die Hard, etc., are ANYTHING like James Bond. When it comes to action, the non-Bond movies mentioned are more hard-core in the violence/gore department and are rated R. The Bond movies were never about over-the-top action with blood gushing from severed arms and sliced off scalps.

[Tinfinger]

Well, I don't know about the movie, but I sure liked the music. I have been listening to it in the car a lot lately.

[ACE]

I have been released by the Bond police after writing this...
I repent, I recant my starting of this thread...

The Tarnished Knight
An Opinion On

[Turn]

Ace, one question:

Any chance you may write those types of reviews for all the films? That's one of the most original I've read in a long time.

[ACE]

Ace, one question:

Any chance you may write those types of reviews for all the films? That's one of the most original I've read in a long time.

Er, is that good?
Yes, I think I have written a similar review for all the films.
Some of them have even been posted on these threads.

[Turn]

Ace, one question:

Any chance you may write those types of reviews for all the films? That's one of the most original I've read in a long time.

Er, is that good?
Yes, I think I have written a similar review for all the films.
Some of them have even been posted on these threads.

I guess I'll just have to look a little closer for those. Sometimes it takes wading through some of the whining about why DAF wasn't a revenge film and such. As I said, I liked the original thoughts you put into the review.

It probably wouldn't have been necessary had people taken the thread in its intended spirit. But, yeah, I did enjoy it.

[ACE]

I guess I'll just have to look a little closer for those.

It probably wouldn't have been necessary had people taken the thread in its intended spirit. But, yeah, I did enjoy it.

Check your PM, Turn...

Thanks for your kind words.

[Scottlee]

Fantastic read, Ace. *Many respects*. That was excellent.

[Dalton's Wendy]

[quote name='ACE' date='12 January 2006 - 18:25']The Tarnished Knight
An Opinion On

[Genrewriter]

I have been released by the Bond police after writing this...

Didn't want to quote the whole post but good points all around, Ace. Interesting ideas for alterations too.

And, unless I am mistaken, the only one of the (now) six Bonds to have extensive  training in the Shakespearean theatre.

I hate to point out mistakes but Roger Moore was trained in the RSC and performed Henry V with Lois Maxwell.

[Dalton's Wendy]

[quote name='Genrewriter' date='13 January 2006 - 01:04'][quote name='Dalton's Wendy' date='12 January 2006 - 21:52']And, unless I am mistaken, the only one of the (now) six Bonds to have extensive

[Genrewriter]

Moore and Sinatra together? The level of coolness in that combo is almost unimaginable.

[Dalton's Wendy]

Moore and Sinatra together?  The level of coolness in that combo is almost unimaginable. 

All they needed was me there, and it would have been a trifecta!

[ACE]

And, unless I am mistaken, the only one of the (now) six Bonds to have extensive  training in the Shakespearean theatre.

I hate to point out mistakes but Roger Moore was trained in the RSC and performed Henry V with Lois Maxwell.

Thanks for your kind comments, Scottlee, Dalton's Wendy and Genrewriter.

I believe Dalton trained at the National Youth Theatre and RADA (which he hated and left early) and later became a member of the RSC, Royal Shakespeare Company.

Actually, Roger did NOT train at the RSC. He went to RADA, the Royal Academy for Dramatic Arts. It was here he met the then Lois Hooker (!) with whom he performed!

But I take your points that he was a classically trained stage actor.
As was Connery
And Moore
And Brosnan
And Craig...

[Hitchcock Bond]

A terrific post by ACE. I would also like to see more of this type of analysis. Does anyone think that TLD came too soon? I can't help think that if there was a longer gap after AVTAK Dalton's Bond may have enjoyed more financial success in a similar fashion to Goldeneye. I think a greater time gap would have felt like a less violent feeling swing away from the lighter Moore portrayal. As you have stated Dalton was not the light comedian in the Moore/Brosnan mould. He could be funny, as in the the 'you're the first' line as he puts Koskov in the pipeline, whereas the 'salt corrosion' and 'safety glass' appear to be tagged-on. I would agree that was more the fault of the writers than Dalton.

[ACE]

Thanks Hitchcock Bond.

Yes, I agree that TLD may have been more financially successful in the US had there been more of a gap between it and AVTAK.

However, it was a different era then. Bond was pretty much a cookie-cutter, industrial process and the studio needed the films out. Secondly, too long gap can sometimes harm a franchise's box office although doubtful with Bond.

[Royal Dalton]

I believe Dalton trained at the National Youth Theatre (which he hated and left early) and later became a member of the RSC, Royal Shakespeare Company.

It was RADA that he hated and left early, ACE. He loved the National Youth Theatre. He even dated Kate Adie while he was there (she used to mend his tights!).

Sean Connery, Roger Moore and Timothy Dalton all serve as Vice Presidents of the NYT, and Daniel Craig trained there, as well, of course. So that's an interesting connection between the Bonds.

Fantastic analysis, btw, ACE. I agree with pretty much everything you said there.

[Lady Rose]

I believe Dalton trained at the National Youth Theatre (which he hated and left early) and later became a member of the RSC, Royal Shakespeare Company.

Hate to nit pick but ....

Tim left school and went to the National Youth Theatre. He left there to go to RADA - which he hated - and left after two years without finishing to join the very reputable Birmingham Repertory Theatre.


Now thats cleared up, back to the review

Excellent review Ace. I agree with it totally. Loved the relationship with Saunders. It was a shame he died as he could have been a Tanner type. It was necessary for the story though. Maybe I read too much into it, but Bond and Saunders could have been friends, IMO. Complete opposites but they obviously developed an understanding. Quite remarkable really, as they dont have that much screen time, so all credit to both actors who had a good chemistry and portrayed it very well. The scene with the balloon bursting is one that will be remembered.

Edit ... you beat me to it Royal Dalton

I love the Kate Adie thing. She said when they dated all they ate was pasta because they had no money. Apparently Helen Mirren was there too at the time.Adie also tells a story about shouting ' I dated James Bond' when he was announced .... quite amazing when you think she 's probably done more James Bond things than James Bond !!!!!

( paraphrasing a bit here as I only quickly read those bits of her autobiography )

Edited by Lady Rose, 13 January 2006 - 04:22 PM.

[ACE]

Thanks Royal Dalton and Lady Rose.

I stand corrected.

[Dalton's Wendy]

Thanks Royal Dalton and Lady Rose.

I stand corrected.

Want to join me in the corner, ACE? (see my post #138)

We can alternate the wearing of the dunce cap . . .

[ACE]

Thanks Royal Dalton and Lady Rose.

I stand corrected.

Want to join me in the corner, ACE? (see my post #138)

We can alternate the wearing of the dunce cap . . .

Difference is, Dalton's Wendy, I never get to take mine off...

[Donovan]

The only problem I have with TLD is Afghanistan. Once we get there, the plot loses traction. Diamonds? Opium? Mujahadeen? None of that was nearly as captivating as the pre-titles, "Smiert Spionam", the Czech Republic, the return of the Aston Martin, and Pushkin. I did, of course, love the fight on the plane. But when you look at a film like "Rambo III" (yes, a dumb film) you have to admit their presentation of Soviet-controlled Afghanistan is darker and more brutal...i.e. realistic. I have to say that around this time the films "Lethal Weapon" and "Robocop" were released, and were exceptionally violent and popular. By contrast Bond seemed quaint...until "Licence To Kill".

[ACE]

The only problem I have with TLD is Afghanistan. Once we get there, the plot loses traction. Diamonds? Opium? Mujahadeen? ...But when you look at a film like "Rambo III" (yes, a dumb film) you have to admit their presentation of Soviet-controlled Afghanistan is darker and more brutal...i.e. realistic.

Agree.