133 replies to this topic

[ACE]

I hear that ALL THE TIME from my peers. At first it was kind of funny, but now everyone says it and it's gotten really old, really fast.

Sorry then.

I'm particularly stupid hence my boss telling me it all the time. I'm constantly amused by it.

ACE

[bryonalston]

I hear that ALL THE TIME from my peers. At first it was kind of funny, but now everyone says it and it's gotten really old, really fast.

Sorry then.

I'm particularly stupid hence my boss telling me it all the time. I'm constantly amused by it.

ACE

There's no need to apologize, I was just saying.

[Qwerty]

Goldfinger was/is the epitome to the rest of the Bond films.

After From Russia With Love's serious and Hitchcokian approach, the Producers decide to lighted Bond up a bit.

One wonders how Goldfinger would have been Bondian, if it went in the same style as From Russia With Love.

[bryonalston]

I might have been able to stand it a little bit more if it had a more serious tone (well, not really, because the seriousness shouldn't just be thrown around. It was used in FRWL, FYEO and TLD because all of those contained genuine Cold War spy stories. It was used in OHMSS because Bond was in love etc...) Thunderball combined things that were good about FRWL and parts of the Bond formula established in GF to near perfection.

Edited by bryonalston, 07 July 2005 - 04:17 AM.

[Bondian]

That's a good question my friend.

I suspect the plot would of been more sinister, and we wouldn't of had all of those fun moments.

One wonders how Goldfinger would have been Bondian, if it went in the same style as From Russia With Love.

[Mr. Somerset]

The first time I saw Goldfinger was on ABC in the early 80s. I was 8, and of course, the version I saw omitted the gunbarrel/pre-titles sequence, along with about 20 more minutes. I didn't quite get why everyone (my dad, his friends, film critics, Siskel and Ebert, school teachers, etc) thought it was the best film.
I finally saw an un-edited (well, sort of) VHS edition two years later. I was hooked, and thought it was clearly the best film in the series. By this point Goldfinger had established...no, perfected the formula in which the other films had followed. It's got a caper that actually improved Fleming's original, classic Barry score, excellent pacing by Hamilton, and a cast that no current Bond film could even attempt to capture.There is nothing about the film I would change...even Binder's absence isn't too affected as Brownjob's titles are excellent. A perfect 10 (even with those cheesy wires on the plane)!

[Bon-san]

I'm not saying that Goldfinger is the worst Bond film, but I honestly don't get what people see in this movie.

It is mostly psychological. People don't often think for themselves and mindlessly think like others because they want to fit into a group, and it is easy for them to think like the majority. People think The Wizard of Oz is one of the greatest films only because they have heard others say so; but I find very little character development and the film feels rushed which makes it lose tension. Woody Allen explains this way of thinking in A Life In Film and he talks about people having seen a new James Bond movie and how they react to others opinions. One guy might talk to a group of people who have seen a new Bond movie and this group hates the picture. As this guy is talking to these people, he is easily convinced by them that the film sucks and he says things like, "Oh yeah, I hated the movie because there wasn't enough action." This guy all of a sudden turns to a group who liked the new Bond movie and quickly changes his mind and says, "Yeah, it was pretty good because it had a great story, the acting was good, and there were a few good action scenes. People have just gotten it into their minds that The Wizard of Oz, Gone With the Wind or The Exorcist are great films because they have heard too many people say they loved these films and without question and quite mindlessly start believing they are great without allowing themselves to see the flaws in those pictures. This is the reason for why Goldfinger is considered to be the greatest Bond movie by too many people, and it is also the reason for why Die Another Day is disliked by so many people on internet fan communities.

Until very recently, I thought that most folks were quite thoughtful and took care to inform themselves somewhat, but now I realize that people don't often think for themselves and mindlessly think like others because they want to fit into a group, and it is easy for them to think like the majority. It's interesting, because I used to really cherish certain films like The Wizard of Oz, Gone With The Wind, even The Exorcist. But now I realize that I had just gotten it into my mind that these were great films because I'd heard so many people say they loved these films and without questioning, I quite mindlessly started believing they were great without allowing myself to see the flaws in those pictures.

I'm really thinking I hate Goldfinger now.

[Bon-san]

People can change their minds. There have been times where I felt Licence To Kill was one of the best Bond movies, and other times where I believed it to be one of the worst.

Oh, wait. Disregard my last post. I changed my mind. I LOVE Goldfinger!

[Doctor Shatterhand]

I couldn't have said it better myself! Bond doesn't have much of a role at all. He doesn't do anything to stop Goldfinger's plan. He doesn't stop the raid of Fort Knox from happening. He doesn't even disarm the atomic bomb. If GF is the prototype spy movie, why doesn't Bond do any REAL spying? All he does is follow Goldfinger around, gets on his nerves, and gets captured...twice! AVTAK's plot filled up all of the other holes in GF's plot.

Bryon,

I am not trying to convince you to like GF. I think TSWLM is another Bond film that is great to show to newer fans. But your comments above saying Bond does not do anything to stop GF is wrong.

Case in point:

01. He breaks out of his cell by tricking the Korean guard.

02. He attempts to get a message out by passing a note into Solo's pocket.

03. He seduces Pussy Galore in the barn and convinces her sexually to re-think Goldfinger's plan. Remember Pussy's look on her face when Bond says "He's quite mad you know."

04. He may not have disarmed the bomb, but he did killed Oddjob.

05. His REAL spying was done by sneaking around Auric Industries and under the Fort Knox model.

I'm not one to start a lynch mob, but to say that AVTAK filled in the plot holes of GF makes me wonder if you even saw the film. Let's face it, the first six Bond films were the best in the series and every other film afterwards have been pale imitations. We will never have another Bond film that will be in the same league of those early classics, and GF will always be the prototype Bond film whether you like it or not.

[DLibrasnow]

Staurt...as an example of where AVTAK filled up the GF plot holes ask yourself this?

Why does Goldfinger explain his plan to the mobsters only to kill them? It doesn't make sense.

However Zorin explains his plan to the industrialists on the airship because he wants to enter into a partnership with them.

[Doctor Shatterhand]

Stuart...as an example of where AVTAK filled up the GF plot holes ask yourself this?

Why does Goldfinger explain his plan to the mobsters only to kill them? It doesn't make sense.

However Zorin explains his plan to the industrialists on the airship because he wants to enter into a partnership with them.

Simple answer:

Goldfinger wanted to tell someone his plan because of his ego. He needed to explain, debate and argue that he could break into Fort Knox. But he never mentioned he was going to steal the gold. The mafia assumed that was what he was going to do. But Goldfinger was buying time and waiting for Kisch to prepare the gas.

Zorin explains his plan to the industrialist but they too meet a terrible fate inside the mine. He needed their money to finance his plot. Goldfinger needed time to keep the mafia in one room. When Solo wanted out, Goldfinger chose to have him killed by Oddjob. May Day does the same to the Taiwanese Tycoon when he refuses to offer more than his share of assets.

[licensetostudy]

Why does Goldfinger explain his plan to the mobsters only to kill them? It doesn't make sense.

The American gangsters were criminals, but not communists. Their crime business survived through the U.S. economy and I am sure they had some patriotism. Afterall, they are trying to survive in America. Goldfinger's plot was to destroy the American economy, which would ruin all the crime organizations. If the gangsters found out about Goldfinger's real plan, they would try and stop him. This is the reason for why he must kill them. Goldfinger does not have the connections to smuggle the equipment needed to make the bomb and brake into Fort Knox and he is not willing to give up his money. So, he uses the gangsters for his own good which is what villians do.

Edited by licensetostudy, 07 July 2005 - 07:06 PM.

[Turn]

The thing I wondered about the gangsters was wouldn't their "families" come after Goldfinger for revenge once their leaders didn't return. The guy was filthy rich and about to get even richer. It would be pretty hard for him to keep a low profile, wouldn't it? Even in Cuba.

Another problem I have with the film is the elaborate length Goldfinger goes to to kill Solo. Sure it looks really painful to die in the back of a car that is crushed, but why go to the lengths of seeing off Solo and putting gold into the car (was he actually going to fly back to wherever he's from with a case of gold?) only to do him in? GF could have just as easily could have detained him with the other gangsters and gassed him. It just wouldn't have looked as cool on screen and they couldn't have gotten in a plug for KFC, though.

Of course, it was a suspense scene to think Solo would go off with Bond's note and you have to hope he will get away. But it's very thin motivation all the way around and one of the few missteps in an otherwise excellent screenplay.

[hcmv007]

The thing I wondered about the gangsters was wouldn't their "families" come after Goldfinger for revenge once their leaders didn't return. The guy was filthy rich and about to get even richer. It would be pretty hard for him to keep a low profile, wouldn't it? Even in Cuba.

Another problem I have with the film is the elaborate length Goldfinger goes to to kill Solo. Sure it looks really painful to die in the back of a car that is crushed, but why go to the lengths of seeing off Solo and putting gold into the car (was he actually going to fly back to wherever he's from with a case of gold?) only to do him in? GF could have just as easily could have detained him with the other gangsters and gassed him. It just wouldn't have looked as cool on screen and they couldn't have gotten in a plug for KFC, though.

Of course, it was a suspense scene to think Solo would go off with Bond's note and you have to hope he will get away. But it's very thin motivation all the way around and one of the few missteps in an otherwise excellent screenplay.

Paragraph one-If Goldfinger had lived (that's the main point) he would have been well protected in Cuba, and would have had them and the russians doing his bidding. No way would those Lt.'s have gotten to him, unless he came back to the US. But Bond and Goldfinger wrestled with a gun that went off and Goldfinger was sent playing his golden harp.

Paragraphs two and three-well put ggod sir. Entertainment was the key there.

By the way, this was the first Bond film I ever saw and I loved it. Loved the book even better (Pussy and Tilly sittin in a tree! Bond is so damn luckee!).

[Monsieur B]

Since Goldfinger was the first Bond film that I saw, I can't say that I hate it. But compared to the rest of the Bond flicks, it's definitely isn't near the top, but it's not quite at the bottom of the barrel either. Sean Connery's usual Bond didn't seem like his Bond in Goldfinger, I just didn't feel it when I saw him on screen (after seeing the rest of the Bond movies). The idea also seemed a little farfetched to me as well, I mean nuke the gold supply of the US? Come on, that's ridiculous. How would Golfinger have gotten the gold in the end if he succeeded? Fort Knox would be closed off due to heavy radiation so he couldn't have gotten anywhere near Fort Knox to retrieve his gold which would've been fused into the ground. I don't get it, if anyone else does then I would love an explanation.

[TortillaFactory]

I don't get it, if anyone else does then I would love an explanation.

Unless I'm mistaken, Goldfinger's plan was to make America's gold reserves inaccessable, thereby making his own gold shoot up in value. I don't think he intended to steal it.

That said, I enjoyed GF very much as a peice of entertainment, and still rank it as one of my top few Bond films. I think it's a lot of fun and well put together.

[Monsieur B]

Ok, that makes every clear for me. Heh, maybe now that I understand Goldfinger's motives the film will shoot up a slot or two.

Thanks again, Tortilla.

[TortillaFactory]

Don't quote me on that, but I am pretty sure that was the point. Bearing in mind that I can be very, VERY slow at picking up on such plot nuances in films, to the point where I finished Road to Perdition and had to be told that it was about the Mob. (As far as I know, it actually wasn't, and my friend was just having a laugh at my expense.) But it wouldn't make sense for GF to steal radioactive gold, so I'm guessing that was his plan...I really ought to know this, seeing as I JUST READ THE BOOK.

I think there's something wrong with my brain.

[Donovan]

Wow...if you hate "Goldfinger", which Bond film do you actually like?

Anyway, "Goldfinger" is just a perfect mix of iconic imagery and fantasy. Bond stories get a little muddled these days with twists, double-crosses, ulterior motives, and repeated attempts to make bigger explosions than the last film. "Goldfinger" keeps it simple...it's all about gold, which is a great mcguffin and is the villain's only real motive for everything he does. There's a saying that I happen to agree with that goes something like "the Bond films are only as good as the villains." Fleming's talent for conceiving villains was tremendous, and back in the day when Eon actually cast roles according to the original novel's description provided the most memorable and successful film characters. Gert Frobe is Auric Goldfinger: physically big with flaming red hair and eyes that bore into the back of your skull.

"Goldfinger" is the best Bond film, but it shouldn't be. The balance of humor, story, characters, and action was perfect in this film. But due to its success the films that followed saw more emphasis on the humor and action (and gadgets), and less on characters and story. OHMSS really would have been the best of the lot if it was made the same way AND starred a trim Connery. Alas, it was not to be.

[ES Blofeld]

I do have to admit, Goldfinger does get very annoying after awhile. The one thing I have to give it credit for though, is the laser scene.

"Do you expect me to talk?"
"No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!"

[Doctor Shatterhand]

Don't quote me on that, but I am pretty sure that was the point.  Bearing in mind that I can be very, VERY slow at picking up on such plot nuances in films, to the point where I finished Road to Perdition and had to be told that it was about the Mob.  (As far as I know, it actually wasn't, and my friend was just having a laugh at my expense.)  But it wouldn't make sense for GF to steal radioactive gold, so I'm guessing that was his plan...I really ought to know this, seeing as I JUST READ THE BOOK.

I think there's something wrong with my brain.

Actually it was the novel where Goldfinger was planning to steal the gold and not nuke it. In the film, his plan was to explode a small dirty nuclear bomb. Enough to cause damage to the vault and radiate the gold useless for nearly 58 years. The US economy which was using the gold standard up until 1973, would have suffered greatly and the Red Chinese would have the West at a disavantage.

With so much talk about the way GF kills off the mob or chooses to crush his gold with an already dead Mr. Solo, we the Bond fans must not forget that the films as well as the books are 'pure fantasy'. They dabble a little in the real world but one should never take these works of fiction seriously. When you think about it why would a British agent do so many dangerous stunts, make love to so many beautiful women, smoke countless cigarettes, and fight to the death with so many megalomanics while trying to stop WWIII. We should stop trying to make sense about it and enjoy the show for what it is, 'escapism'.

[ACE]

One wonders how Goldfinger would have been Bondian, if it went in the same style as From Russia With Love.

Peter Hunt asserted that Terence Young did a lot of the pre-production work on GF.

However, I don't think the director has as much of an effect on a Bond film as on other productions. Same for the writers.

All film is collaborative but the Bonds, especially at this time, were starting to be made by committee. As Maibaum said, "The Bond films are not written or directed, they are produced".

Anyway, it's still a worthy, memorable film.

Again, "hate" is too strong a word for this sort of website and for these forums.

ACE

[cvheady007]

Agreed - FRWL is the best James Bond movie. I certainly enjoy Goldfinger, but it is not the best...not even second best (I think Thunderball or Dr. No would take that honor).

Goldfinger is the one that has been seen the most by people around the world, statistically speaking, and is generally regarded as the best probably because of that...I saw a stat once that nearly 100% of people who have seen a James Bond movie have seen Goldfinger.

Anyhow, there isn't a Bond I despise (except the 1967 Casino Royale, if you want to call that a Bond ), but even if there was Goldfinger wouldn't come close. The fact that someone could despise it is actually...shocking...positively shocking...

[Red Barchetta]

I just watched GF, and TB on consecutive nights, and I would say that TB is a better made movie, and Sean looks much more relaxed in TB. GF has it's moments, but I would have to say that TB is better. The FX, lighting, and dialogue were better. Though he does have the DB5 in both movies, and seems much more comfortable driving it in TB. And, Largo is a much better villian than Goldfinger.

[bryonalston]

Agreed - FRWL is the best James Bond movie.  I certainly enjoy Goldfinger, but it is not the best...not even second best (I think Thunderball or Dr. No would take that honor).

Goldfinger is the one that has been seen the most by people around the world, statistically speaking, and is generally regarded as the best probably because of that...I saw a stat once that nearly 100% of people who have seen a James Bond movie have seen Goldfinger.

Anyhow, there isn't a Bond I despise (except the 1967 Casino Royale, if you want to call that a Bond    ), but even if there was Goldfinger wouldn't come close.  The fact that someone could despise it is actually...shocking...positively shocking...

As I've said before, maybe "hate" was too strong a word to choose at the time, but to me, I dislike Goldfinger and everything it stands for. If so many people didn't have the attitude that it's the ultimate best movie and that all of the other films pale in comparison to it, then I wouldn't feel as strongly as I do, but sadly, it is simply not like that. I'm almost certain that there are other Bond fans who don't like the movie very much, but just don't want to speak up about it. When I started this thread, I wanted to see if there was something from the film that I was missing out on, but after re-reading all of the posts made on this thread, it re-enforces my opinion that GF is over-rated. FRWL and TB are far superior (and hell, if DAF had continued going down the path it started on, and had also included a revenge plot, it would have been the best.) I do recognize that GF created the standard formula for the Bond films following it, but SO WHAT? Just because it did things first doesn't make it the absolute peak of the series and it's absurd to compare every other Bond film to it (TSWLM was a better, more enjoyable film than GF IMHO.) There is NOTHING in GF that impresses me or gives me that Bondian rush (GF is the only film that doesn't make me feel anything towards it, with the small exception of Bond's intro to Pussy Galore.) I wish people would watch the movie as an individual film and not label it as the best by comparison. I have a feeling that the movie would be taken off of the high pedestal it has been undeservedly set on. I also wish the general public would stop saying that GF is the best film just so that they can sound sophisticated and like they know what they are talking about. That is one of the most annoying things I experience... [Takes deep breath, then exhales] That's just my two cents

I just watched GF, and TB on consecutive nights, and I would say that TB is a better made movie, and Sean looks much more relaxed in TB. GF has it's moments, but I would have to say that TB is better. The FX, lighting, and dialogue were better. Though he does have the DB5 in both movies, and seems much more comfortable driving it in TB. And, Largo is a much better villian than Goldfinger.

I wholeheartedly agree. TB was Connery's best performance as Bond and when TB and GF are compared, TB wins on all accounts in my book

[Pal]

Well, we can all find out where it ranks at the end of the Bond Movie tournament in the General James Bond forum. Be sure to check it out and cast your votes!

[Spoon]

I also wish the general public would stop saying that GF is the best film just so that they can sound sophisticated and like they know what they are talking about.  That is one of the most annoying things I experience...

One of the most annoying things I experience is when someone is so arrogant as to assume that they know what a person is saying better than that person does themselves. If people say Goldfinger is the best film, it's disrespecful to look into their heads and tell them what they really meant to say. What they mean, as far as I'm concerned, is that they think Goldfinger is the best film. I give you the benefit of assuming that if you say something, it represents what you truly believe. You should extend the same assumption to others.

This is far from the first time you have made such a comment, bryon. You seem to be unable to understand that people may disagree with you, not because they can't admit they're wrong or because they're ignorant, but simply because they disagree. And your tone recently has been extremely hostile and argumentative. Please remember that 1) this board is not where the next Bond is being scripted or chosen, so there is no need to convince everyone to agree with your point of view, and 2) other peoples' opinions are 100% as valid as yours.

Edited by Spoon, 14 August 2005 - 03:23 AM.

[JackLordIsFelix]

"As I've said before, maybe "hate" was too strong a word to choose at the time, but to me, I dislike Goldfinger and everything it stands for."

I thought Goldfinger was just a fun action movie -- I didn't know it "stood" for anything. You're scaring me, dude...

[JackLordIsFelix]

"I'm almost certain that there are other Bond fans who don't like the movie very much, but just don't want to speak up about it."

I doubt it. There are huge followings for lesser-lights such as AVTAK, Moonraker or TMWTGG on this board -- people are not afraid to speak their minds. And most Bond fans do consider Goldfinger one of the best; actually, if there were two movies I'd show someone who had never seen a Bond movie, they would be Goldfinger and TSWLM.

[Brian Flagg]

I love GOLDFINGER. Love everything about it. In fact, I treasure allof the Bond films. I recant everything negative, bad or mean-spirited I've ever said about Connery's performance in YOLT, anything nasty concerning TMWTGG and all my crude remarks about the Brosnan era. I'm just so tired of all the Bond movie bashing that has been going on in so many threads at CBn lately. Sure, I have favorites and not-so favorites, but it's still Bond and it has managed even in the series' least inspired and most cringeworthy moments, to entertain me and make me feel great after watching a 007 film. No other movie series compares. Viva "Uncle" Felix!