Jump to content


This is a read only archive of the old forums
The new CBn forums are located at https://quarterdeck.commanderbond.net/

 
Photo

Whose suits should the next Bond wear?


45 replies to this topic

#1 spynovelfan

spynovelfan

    Commander CMG

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5855 posts

Posted 20 December 2004 - 11:11 AM

Enough Brioni. There is absolutely no way that Ian Fleming's character would have gone near an off-the-peg Italian suit - even a very expensive one - while Savile Row was still alive and kicking. And Savile Row is very much alive and kicking. Let's put the next guy back in a British suit. It's only right. What next? Have Bond wear a pair of New Balance trainers?

So who should it be?

Oswald Boateng - has revitalised the Row. Has gone on record as wanting the gig. But is he not a little too flashy for Bond? And isn't he a bit 1999?
Here's the man himself in one of his own suits.

Posted Image

Timothy Everest - does that thing with the red lining, nice, spare cut, brought up to date, dressed Tom Cruise for the Mission: Impossibles. Is based in Spitalfields, though!

Posted Image

Gieves and Hawkes (or just Gieves, as I think they are now called). Their address is number 1 Savile Row. Beat that. Great history, but have never been just a bespoke tailors, and have veered perilosuly close to being an upmarket off-the-pegger.

Posted Image

Kilgour French & Stanbury

#2 Bill Tanner

Bill Tanner

    Midshipman

  • Crew
  • 61 posts
  • Location:London

Posted 20 December 2004 - 02:39 PM

There's also Richard James on Savile Row - one of the men of the moment revitalising the street along with Boateng. And of course we ought to give an honourable mention to Paul Smith, who also has a bespoke service - though perhaps he's a little too mainstream and accessible for Fleming's tastes.

Of the choices mentioned above I'd immediately reject Anderson and Sheppard, despite Gary Giblin's views in James Bond's London. Their style is far too 'relaxed' for Bond's catholic tastes and I disliked the cut of Ralph Fienne's suits in the recent Avengers film. I'd like to see Boateng given the opportunity, since most of his designs seem based on the Connery film's Conduit Cut. He can easily tone down the patterns, colours and linings - I have one of his black suits that is very sober. My biggest criticism with Boateng is his button placement: he positions his balance button as the lower of the two (on a two-button suit) rather than the traditional reverse. This gives a distinctive three button look on a two button suit, but I still always find myself feeling awkward about which buttons to use.

I'd also reject Gieves & Hawkes. I never really think of them as a bespoke tailor and they were particularly aloof last time I visited their shop.

I'd be tempted to go for Kilgour as 'a safe pair of hands'. Beautiful cut, excellent heritage. I have one of their suits in charcoal grey - the best cut I've ever experienced.

Whether any of these tailors could cope with the modern demands of 30+ examples of any particular suit is anybody's guess - I know Kilgour said they weren't really set-up for such an operation when I asked them 18 months ago. Perhaps times have changed.

Edited by Bill Tanner, 20 December 2004 - 02:48 PM.


#3 Loomis

Loomis

    Commander CMG

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 21862 posts

Posted 20 December 2004 - 02:48 PM

Armani

Issey Miyake

Yohji Yamamoto

#4 spynovelfan

spynovelfan

    Commander CMG

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5855 posts

Posted 20 December 2004 - 02:57 PM

Interesting. I'm not so up on Anderson and Sheppard's cut. :) And I forgot Richard James.

I agree with your take on Gieves, but mentioned them because they do crop up, and they'd probably be able to do it. One of the problems is that Fleming's character often favoured brands that were smaller, artisanal, and therefore lesser known. In fact, I don't think we know what tailor Bond used, do we? Seem to remember reading an excellent article on this subject on this site - and I think it was by you, judging by your reply! :) But anyway, Fleming's Bond would never have bought his suits at Boateng, let alone Brioni. Robbie Williams buys Boateng suits. Boateng is very good, but he is now a celebrity tailor. Fleming's Bond would have bought his suits at some small place that had been around for hundreds of years that nobody had ever heard of. The problem is that Fleming's Bond is rather more exclusive than Fleming's novels, which were best-sellers. The same applies to the films: any small tailor would not want anything to do with the films, 1. Because the films are a little vulgar these days. 2. Because they'd have difficulty making all the suits required. And 3. Because they wouldn't really want or need the publicity. Hence someone like Gieves. But it is a dilemma.

What do you think of Hunstman? Don't they have some kind of Bond connection?

Edited by spynovelfan, 20 December 2004 - 03:10 PM.


#5 spynovelfan

spynovelfan

    Commander CMG

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5855 posts

Posted 20 December 2004 - 03:02 PM

Armani

Issey Miyake

Yohji Yamamoto

View Post


Loomis, you're trying to get a rise out of me, aren't you? :) It's because I took you up on that Alex Haw thread idea, isn't it?

James Bond would never wear Armani. Kiton, at a pinch. At a pinch, sir!

Edited by spynovelfan, 20 December 2004 - 03:02 PM.


#6 Loomis

Loomis

    Commander CMG

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 21862 posts

Posted 20 December 2004 - 03:04 PM

Fleming's Bond would have bought his suits at some small place that had been around for hundreds of years that nobody had ever heard of.

View Post


Very true. And aren't there lines in the films referring to "outraged tailors", "a good tailor I know in Hong Kong", and so on? My feeling is that Bond patronises pros of the old school who don't seek publicity, sneer at the flash, trendy and vulgar, and have practically no customers apart from 007 and one or two old buffers.

#7 Loomis

Loomis

    Commander CMG

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 21862 posts

Posted 20 December 2004 - 03:06 PM

Armani

Issey Miyake

Yohji Yamamoto

View Post


Loomis, you're trying to get a rise out of me, aren't you? :) It's because I took you up on that Alex Haw thread idea, isn't it?

James Bond would never wear Armani. Kiton, at a pinch. At a pinch, sir!

View Post


LOL! I didn't think I'd fool you, spynovelfan. :)

And I nearly put Gaultier in as well! :)

#8 spynovelfan

spynovelfan

    Commander CMG

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5855 posts

Posted 20 December 2004 - 03:12 PM

Very true. And aren't there lines in the films referring to "outraged tailors", "a good tailor I know in Hong Kong", and so on?


A nadir of the series, surely, is James Bond wearing an Italian off-the-peg suit doubling as an illegal Hong-Kong-made copy of an Italian off-the-peg suit, in Die Another Day. I am staggered Brioni let that happen.

Edited by spynovelfan, 20 December 2004 - 03:15 PM.


#9 Tarl_Cabot

Tarl_Cabot

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 10505 posts
  • Location:The Galaxy of Pleasure

Posted 20 December 2004 - 03:31 PM

The Men's Wearhouse. :)

#10 Tarl_Cabot

Tarl_Cabot

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 10505 posts
  • Location:The Galaxy of Pleasure

Posted 20 December 2004 - 03:35 PM

I'll stay with Brioni. I have absolutely no problems with Brioni but I would like to see Bond change it up a little.It seems like he's been in suits probably 90% of the time, especially in TWINE.Bond has to wear a Tux, suit,commando gear and then let's have some more action casual attire(I love the safari/commando gear in Goldeneye).

#11 Bill Tanner

Bill Tanner

    Midshipman

  • Crew
  • 61 posts
  • Location:London

Posted 20 December 2004 - 03:49 PM

Hello spynovelfan; and yes, I am the author of the suits articles which appeared in the AJB Feature Articles section.
http://www.ajb007.co...esbondclothing/
http://www.ajb007.co...sbondclothing2/

I think you take an overly purist view towards our friend Bond. I just read the latest postings in the wristwatch thread, and was considering a reply when this new post sprang up. To argue that Bond would wear this or wouldn't wear that is a little dogmatic and futile. In the wristwatches article you state your view that Bond would change his watch for different activities; this may be true, but it isn't backed up by any evidence from Fleming. I think the problem there stems from a mistake in the early films; Young should perhaps have assigned Bond with a more general purpose Oyster Perpetual Chronograph rather than the Submariner, something more akin to Lazenby's 'cable-car' Rolex. To argue that he might wear a Patek Phillipe or similar for dress functions is erroneous, the novel of OHMSS gives a more than adequate template of Bond's views towards his watch. He selects the Rolex, despite being on the heavy side, because it works and because it might have to double as a weapon at any time. That's it. Bond wears a Rolex. One watch. No other speculation necessary. What the choice of the filmakers will be is open to the whims of the producers and the inevitable product placement revenue.

It's a similar case with his suits. We are never given the identity of Bond's tailor, though we are told it is 'expensive' in the novel Dr No, and that there has been more than one. An interview given by Fleming entitled '007 and Me' (if anyone has an original copy of this I would still love to read it), he states that Bond frequents Savile Row. This may have been a glib comment, as Fleming himself (although known to have bought the odd item on the Row) used an off-Row tailor "Because it's cheaper". It's a fairly safe assumption that the majority of his suits were made by an expensive London tailor with a few more coming from one of the excellent Hong Kong establishments.

Someone once pointed out to me that an Aston Martin DB5 wouldn't be such an iconic vehicle in Bond's universe, as it would lack the film's associations. I think that's a valid point that would also apply to the Submariner and the suits. Fleming-Bond would more than likely shop off-Row, but if we're to choose the most suitable tailor for the next films from the choices given above (why else did you start the topic?), I stand by my original selections. Boateng could make an excellent homage to the Conduit Cut (as long as it didn't turn too pastiche) but Kilgour could make something both classical and contemporary. I'm not entirely familiar with Richard James' work so am not qualified to comment.

Edited by Bill Tanner, 20 December 2004 - 04:08 PM.


#12 spynovelfan

spynovelfan

    Commander CMG

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5855 posts

Posted 20 December 2004 - 03:56 PM

Well, that has put me in my place. :)

I don't think I'm *really* being a purist. The watch argument really stems from my own taste, I think - I just can't stand sports watches, or anything with a bracelet strap.

I don't disagree with you that Boateng or Kilgour would be good choices. I was just making the point that the problem with the films is that they are about product placement, and that Ian Fleming's character would probably never choose to wear clothes made by a company who would choose to be associated with a massive blockbuster film. Just noting the dilemma. I think the solution is a compromise, and Kilgour or Boateng or Richard James would all be admirable solutions. I don't think it's that dogmatic to suggest that Bond would wear a suit from a small tailor - you seem to have concluded the same. It looks like I may be plain *wrong*, though, about his choice of watch. :) Pity, though.

Glad to discourse with someone who knows that of which they speak.

Edited by spynovelfan, 20 December 2004 - 03:58 PM.


#13 Bill Tanner

Bill Tanner

    Midshipman

  • Crew
  • 61 posts
  • Location:London

Posted 20 December 2004 - 04:03 PM

Apologies for sounding a little blunt - not my intention.

I greatly respect the opinions of someone as knowledgeable as yourself (a refreshing change). I'm merely sparring with you.

Don't stay on the ropes man, slug away!

Edited by Bill Tanner, 20 December 2004 - 04:05 PM.


#14 Tarl_Cabot

Tarl_Cabot

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 10505 posts
  • Location:The Galaxy of Pleasure

Posted 20 December 2004 - 04:31 PM

My favorite Brosnan/Brioni suit is the one he wears in TWINE's pretitle in Spain. That's a perfect look. It's businesslike and professional but not too conservative like the one he wears during the boatchase.So, I guess for me it's not a matter of brand name but of personal taste. I agree with the producers decision to avoid Armani because "it's too commonly worn in the entertainment world".

#15 Hitch

Hitch

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1219 posts

Posted 20 December 2004 - 04:39 PM

Just a quick reminder of what I said about Patek Philippe in my endearingly gauche manner:

"Which watch? The one that does the job - whatever that might be. On a less facetious note, may I suggest a Patek Philippe? Or are they considered too "bling" or "Eurotrash"? And never mind whether Bond's watch can stand a water depth of 100 metres - does it pass the test as a makeshift knuckle-duster?"

Whenever thinking of any brand name in Bond's life (which I do far too often, I might add) I tend to concentrate on a few things: practicality, discretion, value for money, exclusivity, originality.

Knowing little about matters of the cloth :) and less about timepieces, guns and cars, I defer to your greater experience in these matters. Please keep these fascinating threads going - you never know, if anyone from EON reads these forums we might see Bond drinking something other than a vodka martini or a prominently placed Smirnoff. :)

#16 urhash

urhash

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 266 posts

Posted 20 December 2004 - 04:42 PM

My favorite Brosnan/Brioni suit is the one he wears in TWINE's pretitle in Spain. That's a perfect look. It's businesslike and professional but not too conservative like the one he wears during the boatchase.So, I guess for me it's not a matter of brand name but of personal taste. I agree with the producers decision to avoid Armani because "it's too commonly worn in the entertainment world".

View Post


:)

#17 Tarl_Cabot

Tarl_Cabot

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 10505 posts
  • Location:The Galaxy of Pleasure

Posted 20 December 2004 - 04:53 PM

BTW, Maybe Ian Flemming would love Brioni if he had a chance to see the suits? Just a thought... :)

#18 Agent 76

Agent 76

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7080 posts
  • Location:Portugal

Posted 20 December 2004 - 10:16 PM

Armani

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#19 Qwerty

Qwerty

    Commander RNVR

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 85605 posts
  • Location:New York / Pennsylvania

Posted 20 December 2004 - 10:39 PM

I think I'll be happy with what they choose, haven't had many complaints lately about them.

#20 Robinson

Robinson

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1445 posts
  • Location:East Harlem, New Yawk

Posted 22 December 2004 - 04:48 AM

So who should it be?

Oswald Boateng - has revitalised the Row. Has gone on record as wanting the gig. But is he not a little too flashy for Bond? And isn't he a bit 1999?
Here's the man himself in one of his own suits.

Posted Image

View Post


I read somewhere that Boateng designed some suits that were worn in TWINE. I believe these were the suits worn by Goldie(Bull).

Boateng's got color- rich colored fabric for his suits. I'd think he'd be perfect to dress the villain or his minions(I'm sorry, I've been watching too much of THE VENTURE BROTHERS).

Someone had suggested Paul Smith. I think that would be cool. I believe the PS London line would be great for "out of office" wear.

Anyway it all depends on what product tie-ins EON gets. Don't discount who's ultimately cast as Bond. Jackman may be Brioni but Owen could be a Ralph Lauren Purple Label kinda guy...
:)

#21 sidney reilly

sidney reilly

    Midshipman

  • Crew
  • 34 posts

Posted 30 December 2004 - 04:00 PM

Any others people would like to nominate?

View Post


Pendel and Braithwaite, Limitada, Tailors to Royalty, Formerly of Savile Row, now of Panama City.

Since Brozzers was allowed to be more Bond-ish in nearly every frame of Tailor of Panama than he was in the broccoli patch, maybe some of that chalk dust will rub off on the new boy.

And as for getting in on the ground floor of a revolution, well, P&B, you can't beat 'em. Handy stuff.

#22 rdh007

rdh007

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 114 posts
  • Location:Tangier via Bratislav

Posted 30 December 2004 - 04:38 PM

My favorite Brosnan/Brioni suit is the one he wears in TWINE's pretitle in Spain. That's a perfect look. It's businesslike and professional but not too conservative like the one he wears during the boatchase.

View Post


Indeed.

#23 Bondian

Bondian

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8019 posts
  • Location:Soufend-On-Sea, Mate. England. UK.

Posted 30 December 2004 - 05:23 PM

C&A's. :)

#24 spynovelfan

spynovelfan

    Commander CMG

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5855 posts

Posted 30 December 2004 - 08:10 PM

Pendel and Braithwaite, Limitada, Tailors to Royalty, Formerly of Savile Row, now of Panama City.


Good one. And you're right, Brosnan looked dressed to kill in that part. Would have liked to have seen some of the performance as well as the clothes in his Bond, as well.

#25 AMWebby

AMWebby

    Midshipman

  • Crew
  • 62 posts

Posted 30 December 2004 - 09:07 PM

Pendel and Braithwaite gets my vote too. As does spynovelfan's call for more of the grit that informed the Tailor Of Panama being allowed back into the Bond movies. Let Tarantino direct Casino Royale and bring Bond back to his roots.

#26 marktmurphy

marktmurphy

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9055 posts
  • Location:London

Posted 31 December 2004 - 12:46 PM

If we're having a new Bond, I think we should update him properly and give him some more up to date outfits. Boateng would be my choice (but I'm not exactly an expert in these matters). I say make Bond actually look like the knowledgable, fashion aware London metrosexual he could be. And that means no more diving watches!

#27 marktmurphy

marktmurphy

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9055 posts
  • Location:London

Posted 31 December 2004 - 06:17 PM

You want Bond to dress like Prince Charles?!

I give up.

#28 Jim

Jim

    Commander RNVR

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 14266 posts
  • Location:Oxfordshire

Posted 31 December 2004 - 06:27 PM

Birthday suit.

(The wife's suggestion)

#29 Bondian

Bondian

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8019 posts
  • Location:Soufend-On-Sea, Mate. England. UK.

Posted 31 December 2004 - 06:28 PM

Birthday suit.

(The wife's suggestion)

View Post

Ha-ha. Good one Jim!!!. :)

#30 Jonathan452

Jonathan452

    Recruit

  • Crew
  • 1 posts

Posted 09 January 2005 - 03:59 PM

With Regard 007s suit's what you need to recognise is that while Brioni is an Italian Tailor, the designs of the suits are in fact of Savile Row origin. One only has to look at Bond in Die another Day to see Mr Brosnan wearing suits featuring well fitted British styling featuring twin vents and modest notched lapels.

What you are failing to realise is that while in the past tailors have made suites from their national origin, the last decade has seen a change in that with British tailors such as Austin Reed making suites to European specifications while Italian Tailors, including D