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Lethal Weapon and Die Hard


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#1 Genrewriter

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 08:40 PM

Inspired by the other two threads (No, I don't have any ideas of my own. :) ), here's my take on Lethal Weapon and Die Hard.

Lethal Weapon :) : One of the best action films of the 80's, this is the way a buddy film should be. Great action and some very strong acting from the leads makes this an infinitely satisfying movie to watch.

Lethal Weapon 2 :) : The rare sequel that is just as good if not better than the original. I love how the film just throws you into the middle of the action at the beginning and never lets go.

Lethal Weapon 3 :) : A pretty big letdown, this gets bogged downh in it's B plot and really gets too heavy considering that by this point the series was an extended cartoon anyway. Still, the last thirty minutes are great as is Rene Russo.

Lethal Wepaon 4 :) : A great way to end the series, this packs in as much as you can get into a movie while still being coherent and yet still works just fine.

Die Hard :) : What more can be said besides this is one of the best action movies ever.

Die Hard 2 Die Harder :) : I like this one a bit more than some do, it's basically the same story with a different setting but it's still fun to watch.

Die Hard With A Vengeance :) : I think the racism bits are a bit too shoehorned into the plot but this is still a fun ride.

#2 Agent 76

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 09:11 PM

DIE HARD: :)

DIE HARD 2 - DIE HARDER: :)

DIE HARD 3 - DIE WITH A VENGEANCE: :)

I find the Die Hard movies quite entertaining and well done.

#3 Loomis

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 09:14 PM

LETHAL WEAPON :) : Terrific action thriller, especially in its director's cut (which contains a couple of rather shocking, no-punches-pulled scenes absent from the theatrical version, in which we learn just how tough and tormented Riggs is - shame the original opening barfight and the alternate ending weren't spliced in, though). Only flaw is that it's perhaps a little too po-faced for its own good, but only a little.

LETHAL WEAPON 2 :) : Awesome sequel with (thankfully) much more humour. Better villains this time round, a sexy love interest for Riggs (Patsy Kensit is in "Emmerdale" these days - how the mighty....), and good old Joe Pesci talking about how they **** you at the drive-through. Classic.

LETHAL WEAPON 3 :) : Here's where they really dropped the ball, with a massive overdose of gratuitous comedy (Pesci is horribly overused, and the hospital sequence would have been rejected by the POLICE ACADEMY team as too unsophisticated), which is not only irritating (and, by and large, unfunny) but actually has the effect of making the action scenes seem genuinely vicious and unpleasant by contrast. The Murtaugh household has become "The Cosby Show" by this point, while the subplot involving the street gangs is contrived, sentimental and embarrassing. Stuart Wilson's villain is as weak as water, and there's not really any plot to speak of. Oh, and that's a truly hideous mullet there, Mel. Now I'm pissed, Rog! :)

LETHAL WEAPON 4 :) : What a nice surprise (especially after LW3): another really excellent sequel. Yeah, the plot is pretty thin, while there's very hardcore, in-your-face comic relief from Chris Rock as well as Pesci, and plenty of ethnic stereotyping to offend you if you're in the mood to be offended. The script's a bit odd, too, with various funny little half-explored threads that are like old mountain roads overgrown with foliage, leading nowhere (who is the "human tank" at the beginning, anyway?). Still, somehow it works superbly, thanks chiefly to the wonderful chemistry between Gibson and Glover - the way these two actors play off each other really is the heart and soul of the LETHAL WEAPON franchise, and it's never more apparent than here. Only Riggs and Murtaugh could bust a perp and screw things up by getting stoned on laughing gas, and still keep us laughing with them, rather than at them. And the way LW4 wraps things up for its heroes and their extended families is really quite moving.

DIE HARD :) : A totally flawless film. Everything about it is perfect: the script, the directing, the cinematography, the score, the production design, the editing, the casting.... not only an edge-of-seat thriller with some of the most incredible action sequences ever put together, as well as one of the most influential movies in recent memory (to pick just one example of its influence, Alan Rickman gave employment to dozens of Brit actors to play intelligent, well-spoken baddies in Hollywood actionfests), but a picture crammed with moments of extraordinary visual beauty. Really, one of the finest films ever made.

DIE HARD 2 :) : Not the out-and-out masterpiece its predecessor is, but an excellent sequel that captures the soul and spirit of the original (not an easy thing to do) and matches it in brilliantly-staged thrills and spills. About as good a followup as could reasonably have been hoped for, considering.

DIE HARD WITH A VENGEANCE :) : While I'm a hardcore DIE HARD/McTiernan fan, I've always found this one a bit of a disappointment. Kudos to McT for not repeating himself, but WITH A VENGEANCE has too little echo of the atmosphere of the first two DIE HARDs (and I've never liked the way McT airbrushes the events of DIE HARD 2 out of existence). The McClane/Zeus combination is a little too LETHAL WEAPON, while Jeremy Irons and his terrorists just plain ain't scary (and the baddies in the first two DIE HARDs are very, very scary indeed). And, as would be the case with a HALLOWEEN film, a DIE HARD flick not set mostly at night just doesn't seem right, for some reason. By no means a dead loss, but easily the least of the DIE HARDs.

(For the record, I much prefer the DIE HARDs to the LETHAL WEAPONs.)

#4 Turn

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 02:26 AM

Lethal Weapon :) One of the films that set the new era of the action thriller in motion. It was a lot of fun in 1987. Took the old standby genre of the buddy film and made it fresh.
Lethal Weapon 2 :) A great action film and a fun film at that. Gibson and Glover's chemistry was as much fun as the rest of it. Nice to have villains that weren't drug runners for once. It wasn't surprising LTK tanked at the box office when going up against this. Bonus points for it being the first 1-on-1 date I ever took my future wife on. :)
Lethal Weapon 3 :) The comedy takes over and the story and action definitely take a back seat, plus we get lessons, something we don't need in films like this. OK stuff, though.
Lethal Weapon 4 :) Tired stuff. They did try to deal with the aging issue, but there is no way Riggs could have taken on Jet Li and hoped to have lived.

Die Hard :) The film that established the new wave of action films as a powerful box office force. A sleeper in a sense in that people didn't belive Bruce Willis could carry an action film. A classic in every sense of the word. After all, they don't pitch movies with "Die Hard on a (fill in the blank)" for nothing.
Die Hard II :) For a while, I thought this one exceeded the first in that it opened up the action whereas the other was pretty confined. I don't feel that way anymore, but this is still a hell of a better action film than most of the others we have had in the past few years.
Die Hard 3 :) Not the best, but a fun and welcome addition to the series. I'd rather have it than not have it.

#5 Qwerty

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 03:02 AM

Lethal Weapon: :)
Lethal Weapon 2: :)
Lethal Weapon 3: :)
Lethal Weapon 4: :)
Die Hard: :)
Die Hard 2: :)
Die Hard with a Vengeance: :)


#6 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 04:30 AM

Both franchises should never have become franchises.

1 good outing each.

#7 SPECTRE ASSASSIN

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 04:34 AM

Lethal Weapon: :)
Lethal Weapon 2: N/A
Lethal Weapon 3: N/A
Lethal Weapon 4: :)

Die Hard: :)
Die Hard 2: N/A
Die Hard with a Vengeance: :)

#8 mattbowyer

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 04:50 AM

LW1 Pretty much faultless, always see it as a bit 'old' if anything. :)
LW2 Awesome follow up. :)
LW3 Something is missing and I just cannot put a finger on it. :)
LW4 The only LW I got to see in the cinemas, I just adore every moment of this film. Brilliant action (Riggs on the table behind the truck then driving through the office building, oh so good) and the rapport between the leads just as good without any need to introduce new plot devices as in Murtagh's retirement in the previous one. :)

DH1 I grew up on Under Siege and you can give me Segal anyday. Saw this later and it felt like a pale imitation, and yes I know this came first. :)
DH2 Barely remember this movie. :)
DH3 Great, great stuff. Breathed new life into the series under McTiernan's assured hand, this film never stops for breathe and its great to see one of modern cinemas greatest hero's entering a whole new but equally deadly scenario. :) :) :) :) :)

#9 Qwerty

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 04:53 AM

Both franchises should never have become franchises.

1 good outing each.

Oh, the second film was great for both!

Better in Lethal Weapon's case.

#10 bebopfoot

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 05:42 PM

DH-4 stars-great classic, undeniably
DH2-4 stars-a terrific sequel in it's own right
DH3-4 stars-one of the few series I would do this too, but I think they are all perfect
LW-4 stars-Also a classic, though it took me several viewings to feel this way
LW2-ditto, but first viewing
LW3-Has a great early 90sness to it, only slightly less good-3stars
LW4-Not a favorite, but solid-2.5

Overall DH is more my style, but they are both impressive achievements in cinematic entertainment, deserving of their praise and trouncing the overrated Beverly Hills Cop series by a long shot.

#11 hrabb04

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 05:59 PM

Lethal 1: Very 80ish, but still pretty good. For women, you get Mel's butt, for guys, Mel gets fried AND then breaks necks. Fun for everyone. ****
Lethal 2: Patsy Kensit gets naked for the guys, and Mel breaks a lot of necks AND shoots a lot of people. For women, Mel gets naked again. ****
Lethal 3: Mel really should lose the mullet. Rene Russo does NOT get naked here. Stuart Wilson is a wuss and a letdown as a villain. Mel still kills more than a few people. ***
Lethal 4: Mel and Danny's last ride, and it's a doozy. Mel and Jet Li have the most unlikely fight since James Caan beat up on Arnold Schwartzenegger. Still, it's nice and brutal, and Jet does get the point at the end. ****

#12 DLibrasnow

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 06:15 PM

Lethal Weapon: :)
Lethal Weapon 2: :)
Lethal Weapon 3: :)
Lethal Weapon 4: :)
Die Hard: :)
Die Hard 2: :)
Die Hard with a Vengeance: :)


#13 DLibrasnow

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 06:17 PM

Both franchises should never have become franchises.

1 good outing each.

Oh, the second film was great for both!

Better in Lethal Weapon's case.

Agreed...I thought LETHAL WEAPON 2 was the best of that particular franchise.

#14 Qwerty

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 08:54 PM

Both franchises should never have become franchises.

1 good outing each.

Oh, the second film was great for both!

Better in Lethal Weapon's case.

Agreed...I thought LETHAL WEAPON 2 was the best of that particular franchise.

Definitely. The first just didn't seem as fun as the second. The second had all the right elements. Just seemed to be a better mix of them.

#15 Genrewriter

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 09:52 PM

I agree, the blend is much better and it really is more of a summer action flick than the first one.

#16 Qwerty

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 11:59 PM

I agree, the blend is much better and it really is more of a summer action flick than the first one.

Maybe you agree Genrewriter...

The first film seems hard hitting, but lacking in that humor and style the second one had and fused together.

#17 Genrewriter

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 12:33 AM

Pretty much, though I think that the first film was concieved as more of an action/drama then an action/comedy like the other three.

#18 Qwerty

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 12:36 AM

I guess so. The first two clearly may be the better ones. #3 was just boring.

#19 IndyB007

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:26 PM

Lethal Weapon 1: :)
Lethal Weapon 2: :)
Lethal Weapon 3: :)
Lethal Weapon 4: :)
Die Hard 1: :)
Die Hard 2: :)
Die Hard 3: :)

#20 Qwerty

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:27 PM

Pretty much, though I think that the first film was concieved as more of an action/drama then an action/comedy like the other three.

What many disliked about #4 was the total chance of character in Martin Riggs.

#21 Loomis

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:36 PM

The change of character (in other words, his becoming less self-destructive and more stable) was a gradual development over the four films.

#22 Qwerty

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:38 PM

The change of character (in other words, his becoming less self-destructive and more stable) was a gradual development over the four films.

Exactly. I've read that many preferred the Riggs of Lethal Weapon 1 & 2.

#23 Loomis

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:39 PM

Well, the Riggs of LETHAL 4 isn't exactly a wuss.

#24 Qwerty

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:40 PM

No, not at all. He was great in it, my least favorite with him was #3, and he seemed bland in that one.

He just wasn't as crazy as he was in #1 or #2.

#25 Loomis

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:41 PM

Maybe, maybe not.

#26 Qwerty

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:44 PM

Lethal Weapon 4: "Yeah, I'm too old for this :)."

Just a bit different from a line we'd expect in 1 or 2.

#27 Loomis

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:44 PM

Is it? Doesn't Danny Glover utter those words in every single one of the films?

#28 Qwerty

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:45 PM

No, Riggs says them also in the 4th film I believe.

#29 IndyB007

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:46 PM

Is it? Doesn't Danny Glover utter those words in every single one of the films?

I believe he does....

#30 Qwerty

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:47 PM

I wasn't clear. With that line, I was referring to it coming from Riggs, not Murtaugh.