34 replies to this topic

[Jacques Nexus]

Nexus here again with another topic way out of left field. As everybody knows the European Union has been trying for decades to get all the nations of Western Europe to unite...you know...one currency...one government...one defence force...and God forbid...one central intelligence agency !. A united Europe may technically mean each member nation loses sovereignty in favour of one central authority. What would happen to Britain in such a scenario ? (it could make the Royal Family redundant because the Queen's role to rubber stamp British laws into effect may go to the central Euro government)...what would happen to MI6 ?, would it be integrated into a central Euro Intelligence agency ?...what would happen to 007 ?. Would he become a EURO AGENT ?. This is all speculation and probably way off in the future, but what do you fans think about 007 ceasing to be a British Secret Service Agent and evolving into a EURO SECRET SERVICE AGENT ?.

Any Euro Bond fans out there with knowledge of the European Union and what their plans are...drop a line here. It should be a very interesting discussion.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Jim (01 Feb, 2002 08:15 a.m.):
And then we were shocked when we lost at cricket to the colony.

Again.

...and again, and again, and again...

[Blue Eyes]

I guess it all is based on opinion. Australia has a very tricky history. The English came and ruled, killing the Aborigines who were previously rulers. Some thousand years before that the Aborigines came and killed the 'then' rulers (I'm not sure what their title is) and took over.

It's almost cyclical.

[Jim]

Well you did, but the British came in and exterminated it.

Again.

Nasty habit, that.

And then we imposed our history upon the colony.

Again.

Nastier habit, that.

And then we were shocked when we lost at cricket to the colony.

Again.

Nastiest habit, that.

[Blue Eyes]

Thanks for that Affection. I didn't realise it was so indepth.

As an outsider, I say keep the pound. Never remove your history. Trust me, I live in Australia. We have none.

[Affection]

Blue Eyes (31 Jan, 2002 04:16 a.m.):
I have to ask, is Britain going across to the Euro?

Hi Daniel

Your guess is as good as mine. It's quite complex and boring but I'll keep it short. The British government would have to hold a referendum first, as they promised one, but they will only do that if they think they can win, as no country in Europe has won a 'yes' vote on the Euro, and opinion polls show a dislike in it.
Also the Government is heavily divided and the opposition are firmly against it.

The Euro has just been launched on mainland Europe and it partly depends on how it does. If it does well the government will say there's nothing to be afraid of and launch a campaign perhaps next year. What I think is more likely is that if Britain has an economic downturn the government will try to manipulate voters and say it's because we are not in the Euro, and try to "bounce" voters into it.

Of course it's not just an economic argument, but an argument about who runs Britain. Britain is sceptical about Europe, because it produces 1000s of directive that interfer with businesses and people's lives in Britain already. Losing control of its own currency is losing control of its own economy to an elective body in central Europe that can never be democratically removed by any one country and will not act in Britain's best interest but for all of the Eurozone.

However, a lot of people only think of things like how easy it is not to have to change currency if they go on holiday to European countries, and opinion polls have shifted to a more balanced position since the launch of the Euro on Jan 1st.

My guess would be that the Euro is going to have a lot of problems, by having a central bank already telling countries like Germany how much money it can borrow. European unemployment and economics will remain worse than Britain for the forseeable future and the British government, afraid of a 'no' vote will say that Britain's economy has not met the tests set to join. So by my best guess Britain will stay out for at least another 6 years, although many would disagree with me. At very earliest possible entry, allowing time for referendum and preparation if a 'yes' vote we are 2 or 3 years away, but I doubt it will be that soon.

I really don't see though how this can have an effect on James Bond, as Britain will maintain it's own defences for at least several decades, even if it does merge the pound with the Euro. It would be political suicide for a British government to comtemplate the idea.

[Blue Eyes]

I have to ask, is Britain going across to the Euro?

[Affection]

Don't worry about this. You can be sure that Britain will keep independent defence and intelligence, even if it does give up the pound.
Over time defence may become centralised, but by virtue of Bond being a SECRET agent, his headquarters can also therefore become secret (known only to the audience and characters).

[Jacques Nexus]

zencat (01 Oct, 2001 05:02 p.m.):

Jacques Nexus (01 Oct, 2001 01:13 p.m.):
...what do you fans think about 007 ceasing to be a British Secret Service Agent and evolving into a EURO SECRET SERVICE AGENT?

Sounds like a John Gardner plot, doesn't it? Maybe he could have a Swiss partner named Flicka!

Flicka.....isn't that also the name of a horse ?! ("My Friend Flicka"). I never liked much the way Gardner was 'horsing around' with the world of Bond.

[Jacques Nexus]

zencat (01 Oct, 2001 05:02 p.m.):

Jacques Nexus (01 Oct, 2001 01:13 p.m.):
...what do you fans think about 007 ceasing to be a British Secret Service Agent and evolving into a EURO SECRET SERVICE AGENT?

Sounds like a John Gardner plot, doesn't it? Maybe he could have a Swiss partner named Flicka!

Very clever Zencat !. It really does feel like a Gardner style 'innovation'. With all the changes Gardner made, including abolishing the Double-0 Section from LICENCE RENEWED onwards...what was Gardner thinking ?.

[Jacques Nexus]

zencat (01 Oct, 2001 04:46 p.m.):
...But I would like to see Benson deal with this in a future book in some way.

Though Britain is reluctant to integrate into a United europe I can't help feeling there may be powerful Euro forces that will 'entice' Britain to join, whether her citizens want to or not.
Perhaps a future Benson Bond villain could be a corrupt Euro powerbroker who plots to unite Europe so he can rule Europe as a dictator !. There's two things in his way...Britain & Bond !!!.
OR...how about an experimental novel set in the future, say 20/30 years time with 007 as a Euro agent ?. I can imagine fans would scoff at the idea of a futuristic Bond adventure, but 007 as a Euro Agent...well...I wouldn't mind reading it just once. As you know I've been pushing the idea lately that Benson needs to do something truly different to leave a positive and indeliable mark on the literary Bond canon.

[Blofeld's Cat]

A united Europe will still have separate sovereign nations with their own internal security establishments much in the same way that a country has separate police/security forces in each state/province.
Within a united Europe there will still be a threat from individuals, groups,or rogue states requiring the use of the '00' section for all to call on.
I'm sure every member county will provide their brand of expertise to help keep the EU safe and secure internally as well as externally.

[DJ]

We really don't need to worry about Bond changing yet. Blair announced the referendum will take place in 2004, just when I turn 18, as long as its after August, so then I can vote. However, I believe this will be of no change to Bond for the simple reasons. Noone knew why more Bond movies were being made since the Communist Russia had collapsed, then terrorists were born, stupid w*****s. Bond began his hunt on them, if and when Britain does join the Euro, I'm sure the writers will come up with something to keep Bond going as a British agent, and if they don't, then something will turn up.

[Jacques Nexus]

blofelds_cat (02 Oct, 2001 04:06 a.m.):
A united Europe will still have separate sovereign nations with their own internal security establishments much in the same way that a country has separate police/security forces in each state/province.

It sounds like you are talking about a FEDERAL SYSTEM ?. The state/provincial forces must answer to a central authority inside that country...so to use your analogy...wouldn't it still mean MI6 would have to answer to a central authority in Brussels ?. I'm confused...can you clarify the situation for me ?.

[Jacques Nexus]

Blue Eyes (01 Oct, 2001 11:06 p.m.):
I hope England never joins the Euro personally. They'd lose so much of their great identity. That aside,

if they do! Bond would have to be affected greatly. It would be really sad. Because would the Euro have the 00's? I guess they could always crap on and say they do. Mind you, perhaps MI-6 could stay on and operate 'secretly' in a less public building.

I agree Blue Eyes. I can't see how 007 will ever be the same again in a United Europe. If it ever happens, how does this sound ?- 007 to M in THE SPY WHO LOVED ME: "Just keeping the Euro end up sir !". Doesn't sound as good does it ?.

[Jacques Nexus]

Dave (03 Oct, 2001 02:30 p.m.):
Hmmm. I haven't really thought about this really. I suppose I should as I may be voting for it! Tony Blair on the news said we could be entering it within 5 years.

I really don't know what the advantages/disadvantages would be. I'm not really up-to-date on the topic. Obvioulsy if it benifitted Britain, I would vote for the Euro and vice versa.

As it would only really be the currency changing in Britain, 007 wouldn't really change.

Why does Brussels have a Euro parliament ?...how does it affect Britain ?, Dave. The EU spends a lot of taxpayers' dollars...but for what purpose ultimately ?. I can smell a Bond villain scenario here !!.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Jacques Nexus (03 Oct, 2001 02:40 p.m.):
It sounds like you are talking about a FEDERAL SYSTEM ?. The state/provincial forces must answer to a central authority inside that country...so to use your analogy...wouldn't it still mean MI6 would have to answer to a central authority in Brussels ?. I'm confused...can you clarify the situation for me ?.

Being Australian, I can only use our way situation.
There is one central Government (federal), but there are still six state police (security?) forces, 1 territory police force (NT), and 1 federal police force (our FBI, and euphemistically referred to by the others as "The Fantastic Plastic").
They all still operate independently of each other (they even need to have extradition treaties with each other), and the Federal Govt, but all within the 'laws of the land'.
Now, should the UK join the EU (or UE - United Europe) I don't think that the 'laws of the land' would be, or would be allowed to be, much different to that of theirs, or other member nations.
Err...I think.

[Blue Eyes]

Jacques Nexus (03 Oct, 2001 02:51 p.m.):
I agree Blue Eyes. I can't see how 007 will ever be the same again in a United Europe. If it ever happens, how does this sound ?- 007 to M in THE SPY WHO LOVED ME: "Just keeping the Euro end up sir !". Doesn't sound as good does it ?.

Exactly. Bond is British, no doubt about it. It's his character trait. He saves the world for Britain (even though he's saved the US plenty of times). He fights for Britain. And if good old Britain no longer exists? And he's saving the world for Europe? I shiver at the thought.

[Barebumundermakilt]

Firstly .....ENGLAND???????? and her money? surely it is British!! or (for the moment UNITED Kingdom??) we still have

[zencat]

Jacques Nexus (01 Oct, 2001 01:13 p.m.):
...what do you fans think about 007 ceasing to be a British Secret Service Agent and evolving into a EURO SECRET SERVICE AGENT?

Sounds like a John Gardner plot, doesn't it? Maybe he could have a Swiss partner named Flicka!

[White Persian]

I can't see that a United Europe need make any difference to Bond.
If some sort of Pan-European Security and Intelligence Agency does come into being, then simply invent a fictitious top secret British Secret Service for whom Bond continues to work. Something of the kind would probably exist anyway.

Bond stays British...end of problem.

[The Admiral]

Tony Blair said that England would only join the Euro if the economic conditions were right and that a referendum would take place.

[Friedrich Baxter]

Well, it''s a month here from now, and then our beloved currency, the Gilder will dissappear. The eldest currency of the world, more then 500 years (the Charles the Great gilder was the first), wil cease to exist. And I very very disappointed. Right now, in our country, many people are hamstering the last ever gilder, the Gilder of Tim, with a drawing of a child on it! I'm collecting these gilders for my future children (ahum). Now we are getting Euro's. And after some years we also get Euro''s with the faces of, for instance, the Spanish queen on it. What does that matter to me!
No, just give me the Dutch coins. They are very modern, and beautiful with an abstract face of Queen Beatrix on it. And then our biljets. They are the most modern biljets in the world. And they are very uneasy to forger. And for the United Kingdom concerns. Let them enjoy the English Pound a few years more. Because, I''ve got the feeling that eventually the Pound will alos dissappear.

O, one funny remark. In the Dutch Antilles, the gilders wil be still in roulation. Because there they have other kind of gilders.

But an united Europe could certainly spell the end of 007. But that is still many years from now. Europol is certainly not a CIA or MI6 yet. The European Police is still not functioning very well.

[Blue Eyes]

I hope England never joins the Euro personally. They'd lose so much of their great identity. That aside,

if they do! Bond would have to be affected greatly. It would be really sad. Because would the Euro have the 00's? I guess they could always crap on and say they do. Mind you, perhaps MI-6 could stay on and operate 'secretly' in a less public building.

[level007]

As zencat said, England will not have euro as her new money from january 1st 2002. So for now there is no problem. But sure that in the next five or ten years, england will have replace his money for euro.
But about the secret agency in europe, i don t know anything, and i am not sure there are going to have a central european agency. each country will keep his own secret services for now but all agencies will have same laws.
i m gonna do some research because it s an interesting subject, and i am french so i want to know what wil happend to our secret services too.

[Jacques Nexus]

Well said. The trouble is probably no one bar the eggheads in the EU administration understand what will happen in a United Europe.

[zencat]

It's another very interesting topic, Nexus. But as far as I know, and I'm certainly no expert on the details of the European union, Britain has opted out of certain aspects of it for fear of losing National identity -- like a common currency. I think Britain's healthy mistrust of the European community will insure MI6 and James Bond will remain "as sound as a pound."

But I would like to see Benson deal with this in a future book in some way.

[Rolex]

Jacques Nexus (08 Oct, 2001 09:39 a.m.):
Well said. The trouble is probably no one bar the eggheads in the EU administration understand what will happen in a United Europe.

One thing European countries know is that the citizens of the United Kingdom are very tolerant, obey the rules European rules, which other don't. However they also know that when the people & it's goverment see injustice a line is drawn in the sand and nothing will make them move from that position.
This is why if a United Europe was formed the UK intelligence and armed forces would control European defence because once tasked they will see it though to the very end. That's why Bond is loved because it is a British quality and they would want him M & gang leading way.

[The Admiral]

Hmmm. I haven't really thought about this really. I suppose I should as I may be voting for it! Tony Blair on the news said we could be entering it within 5 years.

I really don't know what the advantages/disadvantages would be. I'm not really up-to-date on the topic. Obvioulsy if it benifitted Britain, I would vote for the Euro and vice versa.

As it would only really be the currency changing in Britain, 007 wouldn't really change.

[Jacques Nexus]

Dave (01 Oct, 2001 06:03 p.m.):
Tony Blair said that England would only join the Euro if the economic conditions were right and that a referendum would take place.

In respect to your loyalty to 007...which way would you vote Dave ?.