38 replies to this topic

[TheSaint007]

If you were to put me in charge of Bond, I would ask John Barry to return and do another soundtrack. The best soundtracks were by John Barry, in my opinion. He's still in the business...his latest two CDs (the Beyondness of Things and Eternal Echoes) were wonderful, and a couple of the songs still have that Bondian ring to them. It proves that he still hasn't in him. The last soundtrack he did that I know of was for that of Mercury Rising. Anyway, why not? He did the most of them, and the best of them. Technically he wasn't the first to score a Bond film, but Monty Norman's score for Dr. No was pretty bad. Barry had a way with the Bond theme, and he wrote the music to all of the best title songs (save for Die Another Day)...he was able to interlope the title songs with the Bond theme, and the soundtracks were wonderful. Compare them to those he didn't do: "Live and Let Die" for instance. The title song was great, of course, but the rest of the soundtrack was crap!
David Arnold hasn't done too bad, but you can tell, if you really listen to the music, how he has tried to emulate Barry. In "Tomorrow Never Dies", for instance, in the teaser music...you can clearly hear the first bars of the "Bond Back in Action" portion of the instrumental "From Russia with Love" theme. And in "Die Another Day", in the music to the hovercraft chase, you can see the similarity to the music of the opening sequence of "Thunderball", when Bond is fighting with Jacques Bouvier (or whatever his damn name was).
Anyway, why not bring Barry back? Am I alone in thinking that he composed the best scores to 007, and that he forever influenced them?

[PrinceKamalKhan]

I'd be happy for Barry to return. He was the definitive Bond composer and he should score at least one Brosnan film(assuming of course, that Mr. Brosnan returns for Bond 21).

[Qwerty]

Am I alone in thinking that he composed the best scores to 007, and that he forever influenced them?

Not at all. Barry did the best, in my opinion.

But I am quite happy with what David Arnold has done since taking over.

[agent007jb]

John Barry left the James Bond series on such a high note with The Living Daylights. It is a score and I guess a movie that is appreciated in every respect.

John Barry had some of the best Bond scores, but he also hit some low marks too. If he were to come back for Bond 21 or 22.... and that score were to fail, John Barry would be remembered then for that score, and not the musical masterpiece that The Living Daylights was.

I would not mind seeing John Barry rescore Never Say Never Again. Rumor has it producer Jack Swartzman was preparing a SE Laser Disc with a new cut of the film, added features and a new replacement score. Legrands music is still great in its own right, but a John Barry twist on things would be interesting to hear.

As far as Arnold and Bond.....I think this partnership is getting rather old with lackluster results. Perhaps a change is soon necessary.

[Agent 76]

As far as Arnold and Bond.....I think this partnership is getting rather old with lackluster results. Perhaps a change is soon necessary.

is much necessary!

[TheSaint007]

John Barry left the James Bond series on such a high note with The Living Daylights.

I agree one hundred percent....The Living Daylights was one of Barry's best.

[Qwerty]

As far as Arnold and Bond.....I think this partnership is getting rather old with lackluster results. Perhaps a change is soon necessary.

Hardly lacklustre with the first two scores! Some thrilling Bond music cues in those two. With Die Another Day I think he sort of went down a bit, but I'm looking for him to do great stuff for 21!

[Dunph]

Posted by Saint007
Compare them to those he didn't do: "Live and Let Die" for instance. The title song was great, of course, but the rest of the soundtrack was crap!

Each to their own, but I don't see how, approaching from any angle, you can call George Martin's effort bad. I'm a big fan of all five of the standalone scores (I don't count Norman's pre-Bond sound effort). And the way Martin blends the Bond sound with early 70s funk is flawless, bearing in mind that he's essentially writing the score for a Bond blaxploitation film I can't really fault it. All I would say is that the few romance cues in the score are a tad trite, other than that, he manages to incorporate the title song (possibly the most classic and well renowned of the Non-Barry's. I call it "the best John Barry title song that John Barry never wrote")

David Arnold hasn't done too bad, but you can tell, if you really listen to the music, how he has tried to emulate Barry. In "Tomorrow Never Dies", for instance, in the teaser music...you can clearly hear the first bars of the "Bond Back in Action" portion of the instrumental "From Russia with Love" theme.

You do realise that was intentional, don't you? Arnold approached the score with the ethic that if he was hit by a bus, then he would know that he threw every element in. He wrote the score with "one foot in the 60s and one in the 90s" and after his disappointment at hearing Serra's lack of reference to any facet of the Bond sound, he sought to bring that classic sound back, while, through three stages of the score, gradually incorporate his own style.

And in "Die Another Day", in the music to the hovercraft chase, you can see the similarity to the music of the opening sequence of "Thunderball", when Bond is fighting with Jacques Bouvier (or whatever his damn name was).

Interesting point, but it's only a similarity. There are eight notes in an octave and only so much you could do with a Bond score. Still, it's not so similar that it bears comparison, is it?

I'm a big Arnold fan and intend to support him to the full. All you doubters out there listen to his score to the Shaft remake, one of his best (and I'd love to hear that modern take on the Bond sound)

[TonicBH]

Arnold's TND score is outstanding, I cannot bash that. He tried to incorporate a style of Barry but mixed in with his own style.

Apparently that phased by the time he scored TWINE. the sound was there, but the synthesized sounds were a bit over-the-top and even overcame the orchestra (Something Barry didn't do in TLD, he gave equal balance.)

Arnold's DAD score has more of that, but goes back to the oriental style in the latter 1/3 of TND. It sounds like an utter mess, but has a bit of catchyness to it.

I'd prefer that Bond 21 go back to something more TND. Either that or hire someone else to compose it.

[Qwerty]

Arnold's TND score is outstanding, I cannot bash that. He tried to incorporate a style of Barry but mixed in with his own style.

Apparently that phased by the time he scored TWINE. the sound was there, but the synthesized sounds were a bit over-the-top and even overcame the orchestra (Something Barry didn't do in TLD, he gave equal balance.)

I'd prefer that Bond 21 go back to something more TND.

Agreed completely Tonic BH! I'd love to see a score reminiscent of Tomorrow Never Dies for Bond 21.

[Dunph]

I'd rather see a complete change of direction, fusing a different musical style to the traditional Bond sound, as has been done by 5 of the standalone composers.

[Qwerty]

I'd rather see a complete change of direction, fusing a different musical style to the traditional Bond sound, as has been done by 5 of the standalone composers.

I may be completely wrong, but I seem to recall Arnold mentioning going as far as possible into the techno sound, so maybe there will be something new soon.

[Dunph]

You're right Devin, old buddy, and I can't wait to hear what his new sound will be come 2005! Come, let us Arnold supporters sing action cues round the camp fire!

[Qwerty]

You're right Devin, old buddy, and I can't wait to hear what his new sound will be come 2005! Come, let us Arnold supporters sing action cues round the camp fire!

Yes, indeed! Die Another Day wasn't his best when I compared it the phenominal Tomorrow Never Dies and The World is not Enough scores, seemed like Die Another Day had some afterthoughts and leftovers from the previous two. It just didn't seem as fresh, yet it still of course is a good score.

Looking forward to a great one for Bond 21.

[Triton]

I am a big fan of John Barry's scores, but it seems to me that Barry is "burned out" and just doesn't want to do another James Bond score. I would only want him back if he was enthusiastic about scoring another James Bond picture and had some great musical ideas to bring James Bond music into the 21st century.

As for George Martin's score for Live and Let Die, I agree with DunphBoy007. The 1970's funk-inspired score is perfect for the black-sploitation James Bond film. Unfortunately, the score also dates the film to the early 1970's.

As for the recent James Bond scores, I don't like the decision to give recording artists free-reign to compose and score title songs without collaborating with the film's main composer. Remember a time when James Bond films had a musical theme that was heard throughout the picture? I think that these themes were key to unifying the entire picture.

[Von Hammerstein]

John Barry single-handedly invented not only the James Bond sound but Spy Genre music as well. The wah-wah trumpets, the heavy guitar, the bass beat were all Barry. Later he incorporated a symphomic sound and even used a synthesizer before other soundtrack artists. I would absolutely love for him to come back, maybe in a a collaborative effort with Arnold (who from interviews appears to be a gushing John Barry fan) to give Pierce a great musical send off for his last James Bond excursion.
The soundtrack though would have to be a double CD , even greater bring back Shirley Bassey to sing the title song. You can never go wrong with Barry, Bassey and Bond!

[Loomis]

John Barry single-handedly invented not only the James Bond sound but Spy Genre music as well. The wah-wah trumpets, the heavy guitar, the bass beat were all Barry.

Right. And Barry's departure was possibly the single biggest artistic loss to the series ever (well, along with the passing of Albert R. Broccoli). Losing Connery was bad, but losing Barry was terrible.

[Dunph]

Definitely, but surely gaining someone like Arnold who appreciates and enjoys the whole genre of Bond music is nothing but good?

[Loomis]

Definitely, but surely gaining someone like Arnold who appreciates and enjoys the whole genre of Bond music is nothing but good?

Agreed.

[Brian Flagg]

John Barry single-handedly invented not only the James Bond sound but Spy Genre music as well. The wah-wah trumpets, the heavy guitar, the bass beat were all Barry.

I think the "Spy Jazz" genre made great by John Barry is a kind of off-shoot of the late 1950s-early 1960s "Crime Jazz" craze. Remember that Henry Mancini with his Grammy winning, multi-million selling Peter Gunn album started the craze in earnest. Sure, it's a little different than Spy music, being more for the swinging private detective who hung out in Jazz joints, like Johnny Staccato (by Elmer Bernstein) is an album I'd kill for, although a couple of cuts are a Capitol cd called The Crime Scene in their late 1990s "Ultra Lounge" series. To me, the Barry-created Spy Jazz also bears a resemblance to the early 60s Surf music, with the jangly guitars and great basslines.

But yes, Barry is sorely missed, but there's no going back home, I guess.

[Qwerty]

Definitely, but surely gaining someone like Arnold who appreciates and enjoys the whole genre of Bond music is nothing but good?

Correct for sure. While Barry was the original and the best, in my opinion, Arnold's work has been quite phenominal.

He's done so many great things so far.

[Harmsway]

To me, John Barry and James Bond are almost synonomous. There's no doubt that Barry literally defined how James Bond music is supposed to sound. In my mind, he's about as essential to the film Bond as Sean Connery was.

[Turn]

I went to see the Stepford Wives remake the other day (what can I say, I dig Walken) and was surprised to see David Arnold's name in the credits as composer. To be honest, I didn't really pay close attention to the soundtrack, but didn't notice any techno sounds in it; it was mostly orchestral. There were some waltz type songs and such and if he can pull it off for a film like that, why not for a future Bond?

[Icephoenix]

David...Arnold...Rox. Paul, Qwerty, you guys should know my fondness for his scores

[Genrewriter]

I like his stuff as well, TND is one of my favorites and the action cues from TWINE and DAD are great. I'm looking forward to his next Bond score.

[Qwerty]

David...Arnold...Rox. Paul, Qwerty, you guys should know my fondness for his scores

That I do.

Nothing like driving and having 'Backseat Driver' blaring. Although makes it interesting to concentrate on driving.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

As for the recent James Bond scores, I don't like the decision to give recording artists free-reign to compose and score title songs without collaborating with the film's main composer. Remember a time when James Bond films had a musical theme that was heard throughout the picture? I think that these themes were key to unifying the entire picture.

ITA. Remember how haunting YOLT's title song was(and still is) and Barry effectively used its theme throughout the film's score which IMHO remains one of Barry's best and certainly one of if not THE best Bond score. In fairness to Arnold, there are a few bars of "Surrender" in the TND score when Bond is sitting in his hotel room with his gun and later shortly before TND's end credits and of the title song in TWINE when Bond first heads off to Azerbaijan. Can't think of any other examples of "title song being used in the score" in the post-Barry era.

[Harmsway]

Barry is the thematic God of James Bond films. He managed to write new material and make it seem fresh each time. After writing so many distinctive Bond scores, he was still able to write the finest love theme of his career for TLD (just listen to his alt. end titles - amazing!).

It's a pity that the theme song isn't one with the score anymore. It added a level of unity to the film - take TLD for instance. That film had 3 separate songs, The Living Daylights, Where Has Everybody Gone?, and If There Was a Man. Weaving all three together, Barry created one of the finest scores of his career.

Arnold had a shot with Surrender - but if I have a problem with Arnold, it's that his themes aren't strong enough. In TND he essentially had 3 themes, the Surrender theme, the Paris/Bond theme, and the villain theme. The best was the Surrender theme, but the other two just didn't stand out too much. And the themes only got less memorable with TWINE and DAD.

[Qwerty]

And the themes only got less memorable with TWINE and DAD.

I think he had a shot with the theme he had going in such tracks like Hovercraft Chase and Whiteout for the Die Another Day.

However his strongest themes were in Tomorrow Never Dies easily. Surrender was perfect for one.

[TheSaint007]

And in "Die Another Day", in the music to the hovercraft chase, you can see the similarity to the music of the opening sequence of "Thunderball", when Bond is fighting with Jacques Bouvier (or whatever his damn name was).

Interesting point, but it's only a similarity. There are eight notes in an octave and only so much you could do with a Bond score. Still, it's not so similar that it bears comparison, is it?

I do have to say that to me it did bear comparison...when I heard the soundtrack (before I saw the movie, I may add), that track reminded me purely of "Thunderball".

I'm not exactly critisising the man...Rather, Arnold is a close second to Barry. But to me, Barry will always be the best. He set the standard for the Bond music, and really, everyone is drawing off of him. It shows that Arnold has taste, actually!

I support Arnold myself...but I still believe that Barry needs to come back for at least one more.