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Clive Owen Fans FYI


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#31 Willie Garvin

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 09:37 PM

The Bond films once made stars.They didn't star stars.That's changed and I don't think that's the right direction Eon should go in.There are any number of fine actors perfectly suited to be 007 who the public will love as much as Connery Moore and Brosnan(maybe even moreso)who'll never have the chance to play Bond because only famous people play Bond and they can't become famous as Bond because they aren't famous.

I don't know if I agree here. The series has had to make changes over 42 years to stay afloat. The game in Hollywood and its younger audience has changed, and having somebody established come in will bring in audiences already familiar with someone like Jackman through his other work.

Brosnan had the advantage of a popular television series behind him and some recognition, although not a hugely high profile when he got the role. He had a strong female following as well which helped.

That doesn't mean I don't think an Owen or Gruffaud would work, but the suits worry more about what the lowest common denominator would take.

It's always the suits who make the final decisions.And if the Bond series was being launched today,Bond's nationality would likely undergo a change--maybe to Canadian--so George Clooney or Brad Pitt could play him.It's always about popularity.Always will be.That never changes.

And yes-had he not been Remington Steele Brosnan might not have ever become James Bond.He had the looks and the image--not a tough sell to any production company looking for the next 007.In fact,Brosnan was also offered a Saint film franchise before GoldenEye.Roger Moore had some rights to the Leslie Charteris novels and really want Brosnan to be the new Simon Templar.But Brosnan turned it down in order to be available for Eon--and at much less money than the Saint franchise offered. And from what I've read this Saint movie would have been a stellar production--considerably more faithful to its original source material than the abberation starring a miscast Val Kilmer plus a badly written screenplay which ended up using the title character's preestablished name and not much else.

And yes,the 007 series always has to adapt to the times or it will die.The Bonds continually reinvent themselves every time a new actor becomes Bond. The appeal must be to the widest possible audience.Always--that's very good business sense and I agree with it 100%.And the days of getting a man who is ideal for a part and making him a star are probably over.Everybody's terrified they'll somehow make a mistake and with the huge amounts of money involved it's hard to argue with that.In a perfect world that wouldn't always be the case.

And if I was in Michael Wilson's position,I'd be working overtime to either get Brosnan back-for a few of the perks he wants(other than a partnership in Eon)-or looking to get Hugh Jackman.Jackman's a star and has all the qualities most filmmakers would want.In my opinion,Brosnan and Jackman are currently the only famous leading men who are also popular stars, available at this time ,who can play 007 and be well accepted by audiences all over the world.

So actually we're more in agreement than not.

Edited by Willie Garvin, 02 June 2004 - 02:21 AM.


#32 Loomis

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 09:52 PM

However, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE *not* that mousy Orlando Bloom that all the 10 year old girls love.

I thought you were a massive LOTR fan, Jaelle. Are you sure Bloom would necessarily be a terrible choice for Bond? :)

Hey there Loomie! :)

I may be a big LOTR fan but that doesn't mean I'm mad about the whole cast. For instance, I love Christopher Lee and I like his Saruman just fine, but I wouldn't have cast him as Saruman. Saruman in the books is a much more ambiguous, mysterious character. Bloom was perfectly serviceable as Legolas (tho I'm sure there were more interesting choices out there for the character). I liked him fine in LOTR.

But as Bond??? Not! He's nice looking young boy but he's no James Bond.

I'm really getting into the LOTR films (took me a very long time, but I'm finally getting there :) - BTW, Jaelle, I'd be interested in your views on the 1970s animated movie, which I picked up the other day on DVD but have yet to watch), and I honestly feel, based purely on his Legolas (not seen him in anything else), that Bloom might be a terrific Bond. A young Bond, of course, but is there anything necessarily wrong with a young Bond? Anyhow, back to viewing the masterpiece that is the extended cut of FELLOWSHIP.... :)

#33 Jaelle

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 10:23 PM

I still think Fellowship is the best of all the films, Loomie!

As to the animated film....

well, Loomis, you're asking the wrong person. I am the only person on the planet who actually LIKES the unfinished Bakhshi animated "Lord of the Rings" AND the Rankin Bass animated version of THE HOBBIT (also from the 70s). When the Bakhshi film came out, I was a big fan. I bought the soundtrack and various other merchandise. When it came out on video, I was the first buyer. My favorite casting choice: John Hurt for the voice of Aragorn.

I have fond memories of the film, I still watch it occasionally. It's ridiculous to compare it to the Jackson films. Tolkien fans hate it. But I was always a fan of Bakhshi's rotoscoping animation technique. I was always so impressed by what he could do. This was before digital technology and animation was so expensive. Animated shows on TV and film looked very cheap and poor because it was just so expensive to do better. Bakhshi was one of the few (maybe only) people working in animation at the time, and doing amazing things with it.

I watch the film with the context of the period in mind -- it was just such a huge, bold risk at the time, and I think the film looks damned good for the period. But like I said, that's me. I don't think you'll be too impressed, Loomis.

On the subject of Jackman & Brosnan... I think Jackman's name value and popularity today is at least as comparable to that of Brosnan's when he was contracted to do GE. Actually, I think Jackman's name and popularity today is even STRONGER than Brosnan in 1994. In that year, REMINGTON STEELE was a forgotten memory (the show was not terribly successful folks, few people watched it), only Bond fans and Pierce fans were aware of him. If you said the name "Pierce Brosnan" to the average moviegoer in 1994, you'd invariably get a blank stare.

#34 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 10:44 PM

I just got the ROTK DVD and the third is my favorite film in the series...the best # III since goldfinger! :)

#35 Qwerty

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 10:48 PM

I just got the ROTK DVD and the third is my favorite film in the series...the best # III since goldfinger! :)

I can agree with that! Easily for this series, while the first two were phenominal, the third was beyond all borders. Third was a real charm in this instance.

#36 00-FAN008

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 01:49 AM

I think Owen will bring a new edge to 007, which I would look forward to seeing. He's a great actor, and if my computer was better I'd check out the BMW films.

#37 Qwerty

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 01:55 AM

I suppose I never brought up much support for Owen because I'm less accustomed with him compared to some of the other contenders. But he does seem like a fair choice, certainly one that does get the mentions.

#38 Glor (009)

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 02:22 AM

Most likely they'll end up giving the role to whoever Heinenken, Smirnoff, Ford/Aston Martin, Omega, Norelco,... think is the best spokes-Bond of the short list EON comes up with.

One thing I haven't heard from anyone here have either Jackman or Owen said they really WANT the role? I think that makes the difference with Brosnan. He really wanted it and enjoyed it and you could tell. Dalton was a bit too serious off the set. Brosnan straightening his tie during a chase scene with a huge grin on his face...that's James Bond. Even his trailers were great.

#39 Willie Garvin

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 02:50 AM

[quote name='Jaelle' date='1 June 2004 - 22:23'] I still think Fellowship is the best of all the films, Loomie!

As to the animated film....

well, Loomis, you're asking the wrong person.

Edited by Willie Garvin, 02 June 2004 - 01:20 PM.


#40 Triton

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 02:51 AM

I certainly wouldn't choose the next James Bond from a fashion photo spread in GQ magazine, and neither should Eon Productions or the fans.

But I think that the Clive Owen naysayers should see Owen's portrayal of Jack Manfred in Mike Hodges' Croupier and then decide whether he would make a good 007.

It wasn't Owen's brunette hair or black dinner jacket that he wore in this film that made me think he would make a good James Bond, it was his attitude and portrayal of this character.

Owen seems like he would portray the James Bond character from the books, much like Timothy Dalton did, and not base his portrayal on the performances of Sean Connery or Roger Moore. But I imagine that the Timothy Dalton comparison is the kiss of death for Owen in the mind's of some fans.

But if I were to have to choose between Jackman and Owen, I would choose Owen.

#41 Glor (009)

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 02:57 AM

Owen is very good in the BMWFilms short films as "The Driver". I don't know if they still have them on the site but they did last year. I did actually think he could possibly be Bond when I first saw them. Certainly better than Christian Bale (too Smug) or Colin Firth (too ordinary) or Orlando (too young)

Clive would have to change his car allegiance to be Bond. :)

#42 Loomis

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 08:25 AM

[quote name='Jaelle' date='1 June 2004 - 22:23'] I still think Fellowship is the best of all the films, Loomie!

As to the animated film....

well, Loomis, you're asking the wrong person.

#43 Genrewriter

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 08:37 AM

I'd say in maybe ten years oir so, Bloom might be a decent choice but right now he's be a rather bad cnoice. As for Owen, I'm not especially enthused with him, he has the sense of menace (Bourne Identity, great flick), but apart from that I just don't see him as Bond. I'd rather see him as a Bond villain possibly. As for Jackman, after seeing Van Helsing I think he could pull it off rather nicely. For how long though, that's another story.

#44 SeanValen00V

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 09:57 PM

I just got the ROTK DVD and the third is my favorite film in the series...the best # III since goldfinger! :)

Don't forget to get the extended edition, 40 minutes extra not seen at the cinema!!

It's what I'm waiting for.

#45 Moomoo

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 11:55 AM

I think the public would happily except a charming and handsome relative unknown who fits the part in every manner. There are plenty of talented leading men with the traditional good looks who could play James Bond superbly in the UK,Ireland,Canada,South Africa,Australia and New Zealand.


I think the key problem is there aren't any suitable leading men as you describe. Who are these men from the UK, Canada etc?

It could be the case that the best way forward in finding a new Bond is to choose an unknown male model who looks exactly like the movie Bond, and give him enough time to learn how to act. There is no reason why a 30+ old male model with competent acting skills couldn't make a decent stab at Bond. I'm sure George Lazenby would have become a great Bond had he not thrown away the role. Just check out the final scene of OHMSS to see what potential he had.

A former male model, in the Lazenby mode, could be what the series needs. Just because a man makes a living as a model doesn't mean they can't act. It's possible there is an unknown male model who could make the transition and become a credible Bond. There must be a few out there who could be worth a screentest. At any rate, it would give Eon more options.

Moomoo

Edited by Moomoo, 04 June 2004 - 11:58 AM.


#46 quiller

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 12:42 PM

Owen is very good in the BMWFilms short films as "The Driver". I don't know if they still have them on the site but they did last year. I did actually think he could possibly be Bond when I first saw them. Certainly better than Christian Bale (too Smug) or Colin Firth (too ordinary) or Orlando (too young)

Clive would have to change his car allegiance to be Bond. :)

collin firth!! oh god. mr wooly pully?

#47 Willie Garvin

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 02:36 PM

I think the public would happily except a charming and handsome relative unknown who fits the part in every manner. There are plenty of talented leading men with the traditional good looks who could play James Bond superbly in the UK,Ireland,Canada,South Africa,Australia and New Zealand.


I think the key problem is there aren't any suitable leading men as you describe. Who are these men from the UK, Canada etc?

It could be the case that the best way forward in finding a new Bond is to choose an unknown male model who looks exactly like the movie Bond, and give him enough time to learn how to act. There is no reason why a 30+ old male model with competent acting skills couldn't make a decent stab at Bond. I'm sure George Lazenby would have become a great Bond had he not thrown away the role. Just check out the final scene of OHMSS to see what potential he had.

A former male model, in the Lazenby mode, could be what the series needs. Just because a man makes a living as a model doesn't mean they can't act. It's possible there is an unknown male model who could make the transition and become a credible Bond. There must be a few out there who could be worth a screentest. At any rate, it would give Eon more options.

Moomoo



Some quick examples from the past and a few from today.Rod Taylor had a long career as a leading man-often affecting an American accent--but he's really a proud Australian.And according to him,Cubby offered him James Bond at one point but he turned it down.This reportedly during the actor search before Connery was found.The full story's on Taylor's website.

And we all know that the greatest Swashbuckler of all time and the screen's definitive Robin Hood--Errol Flynn--was an Australian.He played English Irish and occasionally American and the public accepted this.Even a Norwegian,a Scot and an Italian adventurer.And rarely a with a trace of 'Strine in his speaking voice-unless when playing his nationality--which he only did twice on screen.

Canada's Christopher Plummer frequently played Englishmen and Irishmen.Even Austrians and Germans.Want to see him as he might have played James Bond?Check out TripleCross(directed by Terence Young and also featuring Claudine Auger).And of course he's also passed himself off as an American.He can't be the only Canadian actor with this range.Years ago,He'd have been an interesting James Bond.And John Vernon might've made a good 007 too. And also fellow Canadian Cary Elwes (with darkened hair) about ten years ago.And I'm sure are more suitable actors where these men came from.We may not know their names but they exist.

English actor Simon West of Chicago(plays the abusive husband in that movie)might be a good 007.I've seen him elsewhere without the affected Yank accent and I think he looks right.30s,ruggedly good-looking and with an impressive build.Forgot the name of the film-you'll just have to trust me on this.
Jack Davenport of Pirates of the Caribbean and other films might be worth looking at as a potential 007 too.If Eon wants a 007 in hi s mid40s, then James Purefoy would be a great choice.And there's Christian Bale--after some Batman movies he'll probably be available--say about 10 years from now.Plus that Welsh actor whose name I always have trouble spelling--Ion Gruffudd(I think that's it )tv's "Horatio Hornblower".He seemed to appear out of nowhere to become a star if only on tv.He's Lancelot in the new King Arthur movie.Could make HIM the star and not Clive Owen.

My point is,the talent's available.There are still good looking leading men actors all over the world and particularly in the Commonwealth-and outside it like Brosnan's Southern Ireland and the lands Down Under who might be good 007s.Guys with the right looks and acting talent.

Aussie Hugh Jackman's an excellent example of a possible 007--in fact he may even play Bond at some point. Cameron Daddo,another popular Australian actor/leading man might also be worth Eon's time.He was recently a regular on the "She Spies" tv series(Mr.Cross).Or Simon Baker who starred in the recently cancelled but critically praised "The Guardian" tv show.The Eon people will have to look.It won't be easy as it once was with Roger and Pierce with their images established while on tv.And I doubt there'll be any "Saint" or "Baron" or "Toff" or even "Remington Steele" type tv shows anytime soon--so the handsome dashing tuxedoed heroes have to sought elsewhere.Eon will have to look a little harder than before.

But I understand what you're saying-literally create a James Bond from a man who looks right for the series.Could work and merely because Cubby's experiment at turning George into another Sean Connery type was perceived as a failure,doesn't mean it really was.I don't think it was.I like George but I don't think 007 should ever be played by an untrained actor whatever his nationality.Sean Connery was slightly reshaped by Terence Young but he'd already had plenty of acting experience.He'd even played a Russian nobleman,Alexander the Great,and a dashing globe-trotting English journalist during WWII before ever being considered to play 007.He looked right, he already had the training ,and he had the range needed.

Conversely,George didn't anything near this experience aside from being tv's Big Fry man and it shows--if only in places.He certainly had the natural talent and over time might've been a terrific 007,because he's become a good actor since.And at age 29, Lazenby might have been good for 20 years as Bond.But he unwisely chose not to be 007 and that probably destroyed all of Eon's chances for ever creating a new James Bond in-house.I don't think Wilson and Broccoli are really willing to try this again--Cubby might have--but not them.And MGM probably wouldn't let them if they tried.In fairness,having said that I have read that Barbara Broccoli and Debbie McWilliams do occasionally venture out and around the UK and elsewhere to look at possible 007s from time to time.In fact,Barbara Broccoli was in Australia looking at some potential Bonds when Brosnan was signed for GoldenEye(according to what it says in a book I have on the making of The World Is Not Enough).

However,I think eventually--and probably sooner than later--,because the motion picture business no longer features as many of the kinds of handsome leading men who once were the coin of the realm, Eon may have to look harder and longer and perhaps go the Connery route(finding an actor with looks and talent who may only need a little burnishing),as opposed to waiting for a handsome tv star to emerge. Roger Moores and Pierce Brosans are as rare as Sean Connerys.There probably aren't a lot of Timothy Daltons anymore either.All of these men are actors with extensive training who have no trouble with leading roles.Some,like Sean and Tim are character actors who can also play leads-unlike Roger and Pierce who are primarily leads alone,despite efforts to the contrary.

Eon certainly needs more options.Your idea has merit.Perhaps,as you suggest,they'll find someone with all the right qualities and talents and an appearance favorable to the public at large.Female models make the transition to acting all the time--males can too(and may have without the general public hearing about it).Still,the door is open to finding such a man.Someone who can be turned into James Bond. After all,the most important character in these films is always James Bond--not the actor who plays him.At least that's always been the idea and it has been ever since Dr.No.

The suitable Bond actors are out there.Eon/MGM/(and eventuallySony or whomever) simply have to stop their fixation with name actors alone.Widen the field.There are millions of actors in the world-some who'd be superb 007s.Ones who might actually become huge stars as a result,more than paying back the investment put into them.Neither you nor I have all their names at our fingertips but it's only logical that they exist.The odds favor this.

The public is now sophisticated enough to accept an actor they're not overly familiar with as 007.At least I hope so.

Edited by Willie Garvin, 05 June 2004 - 04:47 PM.


#48 Adrian Carlisle

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 03:59 PM

I'm sorry, the more I see of Clive, the more I think that he's suitable for a TV Cop series like Prime Suspect (in fact he'd be perfect for that) but not James Bond. It's not because I don't think he's handsome enough (that's not the case), but it's just...he wouldn't be right, with the way he carries himself onscreen. Sure, he can do the suave thing - anyone can - but not just ANYONE can be 007. I think that if he's cast he'll need to make his mark on the character immediately, like Dalton, because to be honest I forsee him Lazenby-like. Now, we only saw Lazenby once, and who knows what he could've done if he had more films, but the one time we did see him showed him slightly uncomfortable (in my eyes). He was the epitome of stiff, and not what I came to expect from Bond. True, everyone has their own interpretation, but Lazenby didn't act like a secret agent, he acted like an everyman, like a cop. And I know it's wrong to prejudge, but that's exactly what I believe will happen with Clive. He'll walk into a Casino as Mr. Cool and Collected 007, but when he's out there being 007, I fear he'll look like Detective Chief Inspector Bond, MI6.

I hope I'm wrong, but the more I see of Mr. Owen, the more I'm thinking I won't be.