124 replies to this topic

[Loomis]

Here we are, the hardest of the hardcore Bond fans. We're obsessives, purists, Fleming fiends.... We know what Bond "ought to be", and heaven knows we're vocal as soon as filmmakers and novelists deviate from the True Path. We know why Fleming's books were so special, why ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE isn't the dud Joe Blow thinks it is, why the Brosnan films - while entertaining and stupendously successful - aren't all they could and should have been....

But one thing baffles me: why are we so easy on Roger Moore?

I mean, I know we don't all think with one mind (thankfully), but, by rights, shouldn't Moore be Enemy Number One for us Supergeeks of Bondage? Shouldn't we hate him and all his films stand for? Consider:

- His Bond was mostly a million miles away from Fleming's (and Gardner's, and Benson's). Connery, Lazenby, Dalton and Brosnan at least tried hard to give us a decent enough approximation of Fleming's ruthless alpha male and coldhearted killer. Moore, by contrast, was avuncular, dapper, decent, jocular, jokey, posh, smug, smutty, ultra-English (to my mind, Moore's Bond is a comic take on Englishness to rival Peter Sellers' Clouseau's sendup of Frenchness), unathletic, and seemingly late middle-aged right from birth (can you picture Moore as a child? I can't).... everything Fleming's Bond isn't.

- Not only did Moore take the most diabolical liberties with the character created by Ian Fleming (praise His name), he compounded his sins by clinging to the Bond role until he was so old and frail that the filmmakers had to - both figuratively and literally - escort him to the door. Pushing 58, he had the effrontery (or, depending on one's point of view, the cojones) to play 007 for the seventh time.

- Of Moore's seven Bond flicks, three (THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN, MOONRAKER and A VIEW TO A KILL) are commonly considered among the most juvenile and inept entries of the entire 20-film series.

So, why, when Lazenby, Dalton, Brosnan and even Connery are routinely bashed on these forums, are we so darned nice to Moore the whole time? We roast Benson and Gardner for their crimes against Fleming's creation, yet tend to let Moore off scot-free for his.

None of this is intended as an attack on Moore, by the way. Actually, I love the guy - I find him more entertaining to watch than any of the other Bond actors, and I guess I've just answered my own question: Moore is so much fun, dang it, that the mockery he makes of Bond becomes irrelevant.

Put another way, so gleefully and blatantly does Moore attempt to get away with murder that we're ready to forgive him anything.

Thoughts?

[SnakeEyes]

Moore's version is a 'send up' of the series in his own comic way.

Enjoyable, but not Bond.

Brosnan's are pale pathetic attempts from inept people clutching at straws to support a dying company.

Annoying and certainly not Bond.

See the difference? As for the other 3, they didn't do anything wrong (well, DAF not withstanding... I don't class that a Bond film either).

Go skiing this holiday season and have Bond 77 playing in your personal stereo. All is suddenly forgiven and Moore is king

Go skiing and think of the ski chase in TWINE and you'll just vomit at the generic crap it was. Suddenly, you'll hate the recent films more. (Notice I don't pin the blame on Brosnan, but do state the praise on Roger.).

[marktmurphy]

I'm not sure if I should join in this debate you are having with yourself, but; Moore makes Bond look fun because like Connery before him he saw what a load of silly rubbish Bond is. You can't play it straight (and Connery never did, incidentally) as the situations and 'character' are ridiculous. Therefore play it for laughs, or even better, play it striaght but with a knowing wink- thus allowing it to be appreciated on different levels by all age groups.
That's why I think of all the Bonds, Connery and Moore are the most similar- they both played it straight but with a wink to the audience. The rest (with the possible exception of George- its so hard to tell) all thought Bond is a serious character with 'depths'. Whilst battling women who can crush people to death with their thighs. Yeah, right.

Its such a a shame that Pierce chose to ignore what these two knights taught us about how to play Bond- he started so well too. The only James Bond to get worse?

[zencat]

Yes, what marktmurphy said. Perfectly put.

Moore took A LOT of heat during his time as Bond so I like that he's now getting some respect. Moore was right for his time and I'm glad people are finally seeing that. His light touch keep the series afloat.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

But one thing baffles me: why are we so easy on Roger Moore?

I mean, I know we don't all think with one mind (thankfully), but, by rights, shouldn't Moore be Enemy Number One for us Supergeeks of Bondage? Shouldn't we hate him and all his films stand for?

So, why, when Lazenby, Dalton, Brosnan and even Connery are routinely bashed on these forums, are we so darned nice to Moore the whole time? We roast Benson and Gardner for their crimes against Fleming's creation, yet tend to let Moore off scot-free for his.

None of this is intended as an attack on Moore, by the way. Actually, I love the guy - I find him more entertaining to watch than any of the other Bond actors, and I guess I've just answered my own question: Moore is so much fun, dang it, that the mockery he makes of Bond becomes irrelevant.

Put another way, so gleefully and blatantly does Moore attempt to get away with murder that we're ready to forgive him anything.

Thoughts?

I think you answered your question, Loomis. Of all 5 Bonds, Moore is the most likable, self-deprecating, least pretentious and most humble which makes it very easy to be easy on him. In interviews, Moore always comes off as very modest and not conceited or arrogant which adds to people liking him. As for the comical direction the Bond series took during his tenure in the role, the ones you should blame (or credit, depending on one's perspective) are Tom Mankiewicz, Richard Maibaum, Christopher Wood, George MacDonald Fraser and, ultimately, Albert Broccoli, Harry Saltzman and Michael G. Wilson. Moore was just the actor playing a part.

[doublenoughtspy]

I can't speak for the entire board, but I would imagine the vast majority of us grew up with Roger as Bond so if it weren't for him - a lot of us would not be here.

You are right, Roger is not pure Fleming, but just as I would not put in a Timothy Dalton Bond film if I was looking for humor - I would not put in a Roger Moore Bond DVD if I were looking for Fleming.

Roger Moore put his own stamp on Bond and that is why we love him. He did not try to imitate Sean Connery - he made Bond fit his strengths instead.

He continued the theme that began in DAF - light hearted, urbane, witty, wink with the audience.

Richard Maibaum said Roger was almost "too Englishy" but I see that as a strength - not a weakness. Maibaum also said some of the real groaner one liners were Roger's not his.

The other side to Roger's light touch is when he turns on the seriousness - you notice it that much more - for example in TSWLM when he tells Anya he killer her lover.

Yes, Roger had some weak Bond films. All the actors, with the exception of Lazenby, have had them.

But don't blame Roger for his age - he could not help when he was born. It wasn't something he could control, unlike say Connery's weight in DAF, or Dalton's haircut in LTK.

Also - Roger did not script any of his films - yes he contributed to the tone and the one-liners - but don't accuse him of going up to Cubby in 1978 and saying "You know - we really should have an outer space romp next, old boy!"

Roger's Bond was an expert at EVERYTHING...something we don't see with Brosnan.

I think Roger's greatest strength is how much he was an ambassador for the series. He promoted the heck out of it while he was Bond, and attends functions, retrospectives, and every other interview opportunity possible that want to know about the Bond series.

Both his predecessor (Connery) and his successor (Dalton) act like the Bond role was such a burden, and that they are concerned with other work. Roger knows what made him famous and wealthy. He knows it was the role of a lifetime, and he is happy to share his memories.

And I'll end this by quoting my own Moore retrospective from my publication SPIES Magazine:

With the ease of a raised eyebrow, Roger Moore could kill, make love, or save the world.

[SnakeEyes]

That's exactly what I meant. But it came out more nasty cos i'm a bast

Roger was the man when so many others were not.

Roger 'is' the look on his own face when Magda tells him "that's just my little octopussy"

Pure class.

[Qwerty]

Excellent points by everyone. Roger is my favorite Bond so it's good that there are so many good things to point out about his take on 007. Of all the Bond's he one of the most witty, urbane and sophisticated. Now I like all the actors, but Roger was the true English gentlemen and not rough and tough or whatever else the others may be.

Personally, I don't think all people are easy on Roger or some of his films, which get a lot of bashing. There are some members of CBn, myself included that love his films, even the ones that are very often put down, such as A View To A Kill or Moonraker, but CBn has proved that there are loads of lovers of these films.

Roger makes some great viewings and his comedy and style are always fun to watch.

Anyways, that's my view for now.

[Loomis]

There are some members of CBn, myself included that love his films, even the ones that are very often put down, such as A View To A Kill or Moonraker, but CBn has proved that there are loads of lovers of these films.

One thing that really infuriates me in books about the Bond films is authors trotting out the "accepted wisdom" on films like THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN and MOONRAKER as though it's established fact. You know the sort of thing: "Of course MOONRAKER is one of the worst Bond outings ever." It's nothing of the kind, but there's an attitude of "trust us, we're the experts".

[Qwerty]

Exactly Loomis! It should be: "Trust my opinion."

I could care less what they think, it's been proven on here that loads of people like those 'horrible Bond films' as they call them.

[ChandlerBing]

I thought Roger basically played The Saint. He wasn't much of a James Bond. Watch the Moore movies, go and read Fleming, and then have yourself a heart attack. Not even close to the same thing at all.

[Loomis]

Watch the Moore movies, go and read Fleming, and then have yourself a heart attack. Not even close to the same thing at all.

And yet we love Moore! (Most of us here, anyway.) This is what I'm on about: as hardcore Bond freaks and Fleming readers, shouldn't we loathe old Rog? Yet he's practically the sacred cow of CBn. Brosnan would kill to command the respect and affection Moore gets around here.

[ChandlerBing]

Moore is probably my second to least favorite Bond. He just was not Bond. Not even close. Oh, he had his moments, but they were far and in between. One of the reasons I liked Dalton so much initially was, hey, finally someone who actually looked somewhat like Bond, ie, someone with black hair!

[Loomis]

One of the reasons I liked Dalton so much initially was, hey, finally someone who actually looked somewhat like Bond, ie, someone with black hair!

Yeah, even Moore's hair was all wrong!

[ChandlerBing]

Moore had the worst stunt doubles. You could tell when Roger stepped out of the frame, like walking long distances, etc.

[SeaNNy-T.]

my favorite actors are in this order:

1. Sean Connery- he played the Bond Fleming would have wanted. He
did it with a gritty get the job done style that Fleming wrote about.

2. Peirce Brosnan- he made bond a more suave character that still tried
to get the job done. Unfortunetly his only good film to show for is
Goldeneye.

3. Roger Moore- Although he made bond a little too comical and nothing
like Flemings Bond, he still made some ok movies.

4. George Lazenby- only made one film and was ok no other comments

5. Dalton- worst Bond actor period, too loving and weird. Weirdest of
the series besides DIAMONDS are FOREVER, Moonraker and NsNagain.

Edited by SeaNNy-T., 23 February 2004 - 09:18 PM.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I've taken my share of shots at Roger for being too old...etc but he's so darn likeable!.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Darren?

[doublenoughtspy]

Moore had the worst stunt doubles. You could tell when Roger stepped out of the frame, like walking long distances, etc.

At least he did ALL of his own gun barrel sequences, unlike an overweight Scottish actor who was too lazy to do them until TBall

[ChandlerBing]

Obviously not a Connery fan.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Sean didn't do his first 3 gun barrels? WTF??

[Loomis]

he's so darn likeable!.

Yeah, and you can never stay angry at him for long!

In the final analysis, you're bang on the money, Tarl: Moore has so much charisma that one just sits back, sets aside all thoughts of Fleming, and enjoys the ride.... and Moore always gives you a fun ride.

I'll even venture to suggest that Moore, alone among the Bond actors, brought a sort of "underdog" quality to the role in some way, putting viewers firmly on his side. The others aren't underdogs - they're superconfident alpha males. Of course, Moore's Bond is confident, but whenever he wins through, it's kind of like the triumph of an ideal of quintessential English decency rather than the triumph of raw Scottish machismo or of expertise with machine guns. I think we root for Moore in a slightly different way to how we root for the other 007s.

[ChandlerBing]

Sometime, I think I can understand why Dalton has so many fans out there. Roger Moore pissed them off, as his movies were pretty irrelevant to the spirit of Fleming. Dalton, to his credit, was closer, but that's not saying much.

[doublenoughtspy]

Tarl that is Bob Simmons in the first three gun barrels. Connery had to do one for Thunderball because they switched to Panavision format for filming - i.e. widescreen.

No word on how much money Connery demanded for the extra filming time it took though.

[ChandlerBing]

Whatever it was, it wasn't enough. He nearly tripped over his own feet when he made the turn to fire!

[Tarl_Cabot]

Bob Simmons? A stunt double? He should get a his own forums! he's the 8th James Bond! (Barry Nelson (?), Sean Connery,Peter sellers,Laz,Rog,Tim,Pierce)

[Tarl_Cabot]

Roger was cool. He wasn't my ideal James Bond but his films were silly fun(great entertainment). I grew up with Roger. But it was the books that made me see the Dark side of Bond and so I embraced Dalton like a new born when he arrived!

Brosnan has been good at being a generic Bond, for all shoppers to enjoy. He just needs a better story, director, song and women to work with...I liked him as Thomas Crown.He nailed that one, better than any Bond film of his, imho.

[Doubleshot]

Oh.

Make no mistake.

I'm not easy on him at all.

[TheSaint]

Anything I could add in defense of Sir Roger against what the "haters" have posted, as they say in the vernacular, Doublenought has said already, better than I could. And that closing line? Killer!

[Mister Asterix]

I bring up one scene. In Live And Let Die in the hotel in San Monique. Roger