81 replies to this topic

[bryonalston]

Him saying that TLD, OP and LALD were the three worst Bond films made him lose credibility even further. Even though all three of those rank somewhere towards the middle, TMWTGG, DAD and MR were far worse than all three of them.

[licensetostudy]

If you really think about it, Dalton was the only Bond who has a perfect track record with his films (with the exception of Lazenby, even though OHMSS, like any other movie, has flaws.) Connery had his flawed gem in DAF, Moore had his tarnished gold in TMWTGG, and Brosnan was forced to Try Another Way with Die Another Day. Both of Dalton's films are near perfect at what they are trying to accomplish. Dalton was great! GREAT!!

Licence To Kill is great, but The Living Daylights is far from great. One thing that must not be done in the action film genre is to have weak villains, which hurt Lethal Weapon 3 as well as TLD. Whitaker is attrocious and laughable, Necros is just another boring Red Grant clone and is not memorable, and Koscov is nothing special either and is a bit annoying. Most of the characters in TLD are forgettable and the acting is bad especially from Kara and Whitaker, which is the worst thing that could happen to a Bond movie. When one thinks about great characters they think Alec Trevelyn, Oddjob, Scaramanga, Jaws, or Fiona Volpe. But what does TLD have? Pushkin, Saunders and Koscov. Like Danny Glover always said in the Lethal Weapon series, "pretty in thin."

Edited by licensetostudy, 20 August 2005 - 11:29 PM.

[Turn]

If you really think about it, Dalton was the only Bond who has a perfect track record with his films (with the exception of Lazenby, even though OHMSS, like any other movie, has flaws.) Connery had his flawed gem in DAF, Moore had his tarnished gold in TMWTGG, and Brosnan was forced to Try Another Way with Die Another Day. Both of Dalton's films are near perfect at what they are trying to accomplish. Dalton was great! GREAT!!

Licence To Kill is great, but The Living Daylights is far from great. One thing that must not be done in the action film genre is to have weak villains, which hurt Lethal Weapon 3 as well as TLD. Whitaker is attrocious and laughable, Necros is just another boring Red Grant clone and is not memorable, and Koscov is nothing special either and is a bit annoying. Most of the characters in TLD are forgettable and the acting is bad especially from Kara and Whitaker, which is the worst thing that could happen to a Bond movie. When one thinks about great characters they think Alec Trevelyn, Oddjob, Scaramanga, Jaws, or Fiona Volpe. But what does TLD have? Pushkin, Saunders and Koscov. Like Danny Glover always said in the Lethal Weapon series, "pretty in thin."

I agree. TLD does contain some of the weakest characters in the entire series, but it strangely still works. I attribute that to Dalton's strong performance.

[tdalton]

If you really think about it, Dalton was the only Bond who has a perfect track record with his films (with the exception of Lazenby, even though OHMSS, like any other movie, has flaws.) Connery had his flawed gem in DAF, Moore had his tarnished gold in TMWTGG, and Brosnan was forced to Try Another Way with Die Another Day. Both of Dalton's films are near perfect at what they are trying to accomplish. Dalton was great! GREAT!!

Licence To Kill is great, but The Living Daylights is far from great. One thing that must not be done in the action film genre is to have weak villains, which hurt Lethal Weapon 3 as well as TLD. Whitaker is attrocious and laughable, Necros is just another boring Red Grant clone and is not memorable, and Koscov is nothing special either and is a bit annoying. Most of the characters in TLD are forgettable and the acting is bad especially from Kara and Whitaker, which is the worst thing that could happen to a Bond movie. When one thinks about great characters they think Alec Trevelyn, Oddjob, Scaramanga, Jaws, or Fiona Volpe. But what does TLD have? Pushkin, Saunders and Koscov. Like Danny Glover always said in the Lethal Weapon series, "pretty in thin."

I agree. TLD does contain some of the weakest characters in the entire series, but it strangely still works. I attribute that to Dalton's strong performance.

SPOILERS


I think that the villains in TLD come off as weak because their plot is not one of world domination, like the plots of just about every single one of the Roger Moore films (except for his first two) contained. I think that Koskov, Whitaker, and Necros are effective villains for what their plans are (i.e.: drug running, assassinating secret agents, etc.) They weren't trying to take over the world, so they looked weak by comparison to some of the others.

[Turn]

If you really think about it, Dalton was the only Bond who has a perfect track record with his films (with the exception of Lazenby, even though OHMSS, like any other movie, has flaws.) Connery had his flawed gem in DAF, Moore had his tarnished gold in TMWTGG, and Brosnan was forced to Try Another Way with Die Another Day. Both of Dalton's films are near perfect at what they are trying to accomplish. Dalton was great! GREAT!!

Licence To Kill is great, but The Living Daylights is far from great. One thing that must not be done in the action film genre is to have weak villains, which hurt Lethal Weapon 3 as well as TLD. Whitaker is attrocious and laughable, Necros is just another boring Red Grant clone and is not memorable, and Koscov is nothing special either and is a bit annoying. Most of the characters in TLD are forgettable and the acting is bad especially from Kara and Whitaker, which is the worst thing that could happen to a Bond movie. When one thinks about great characters they think Alec Trevelyn, Oddjob, Scaramanga, Jaws, or Fiona Volpe. But what does TLD have? Pushkin, Saunders and Koscov. Like Danny Glover always said in the Lethal Weapon series, "pretty in thin."

I agree. TLD does contain some of the weakest characters in the entire series, but it strangely still works. I attribute that to Dalton's strong performance.

SPOILERS


I think that the villains in TLD come off as weak because their plot is not one of world domination, like the plots of just about every single one of the Roger Moore films (except for his first two) contained. I think that Koskov, Whitaker, and Necros are effective villains for what their plans are (i.e.: drug running, assassinating secret agents, etc.) They weren't trying to take over the world, so they looked weak by comparison to some of the others.

That's a good theory, but doesn't really apply to why I am less than satisfied with TLD's villains. The SPECTRE crew in FRWL weren't trying to take over the world and neither was Scaramanga, so I don't really count that as a priority.

Whitaker is basically a blow-hard arms dealer and not even a very sinister one. A guy who stands around in a museum and sits around eating lobster and barking orders. The guy never even leaves his base of operations, like Stromberg, who I also rank very low on my villains list. Whitaker's credentials aren't even very good: kicked out of West Point for cheating and has a resume as a mercenary. There's no quirk, no edge to make him memorable. You can surround him with an interesting set, but that doesn't make him any more lethal. Maybe somebody other than Joe Don Baker may have brought a more potent air to the role.

Koskov is a schemer, but more in a comical way. The year before TLD, Jeroen Krabbe played a bad- cajun villain in a Richard Gere movie called No Mercy. I thought that boded well for him. Unfortunately, he doesn't come across this way at all. Clowning around in a pool and wearing a pimp hat doesn't scream "threat to Bond." Sure, the character puts you off to his intentions, but I want more of an edge, a threat to him in a film that's supposed got a harder edged Bond. Koskov would have served better playing off Roger Moore's Bond rather than a film dealing with several assasinations.

Necros is a decent henchman. I guess he could be lumped into the Red Grant mould, but he at least looks evil. He's more interesting than the stereotyped Kriegler in FYEO, with a more toned and lean muscular frame. And his adaptability to disguises brings another dimension.

[Bondesque]

TLD has the weakest villians in all of the Bond series.
LTK has some of the worst female actors in the series.

Dalton looked good in TLD and horrible in LTK. In both of them he gave a mixed performance:

Nailed the angst ridden weary James Bond: grade A

Average in the fight scenes: grade B-

Poor on the sophisticated/hedonist side of Bond: grade C-

Failed miserabley on the male chevenist/seducer of women (has no sexual chemistry at all): grade F

Of all of the actors to play Bond Dalton was the most frustrating. Great potential but was mis cast. With the exception of one scene in LTK, (in the plane when he smiles at all the money he has just stolen from the bad guys )He never looked like he enjoyed being James Bond.

Great stage actor! Nice man (I have met him twice). Great character actor but not comfortable as Bond.

[4 Ur Eyez Only]

Dalton was great!!! He was taken away to soon

He was a true real actor, who was bringing something different and new to the role.

The Problem was they didn't give him enough movies to get the public interested in something trying to do something NEW

Imagine if they fired Patrick Stewart from Star Trek after season 1. Dalton & Stewart are the best examples of IF you give a guy a chance to show the brain dead public something new & when you dont!

[right idea, wrong pussy]

I thought Dalton was REALLY good in THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS but I was not a big fan of LICENSE TO KILL....So, hence I have mixed feelings about the Dalton era!

That about sums up my feelings about Dalton. I will say that I'd rather have him come back in CR than see many of the candidates being flouted around right now become Bond #6. Dalton's not my favorite though. He has the same sorts of problems as Brosnan, who can be brilliant in one movie (GE), good in another (TWINE), only alright in a third (TND) and horrible in a fourth (DAD). Moore and Connery tend not to have such major variantions in the quality of their performances. Certainly the Connery of DAF and NSNA is different from the Connery of DN and FRWL, but both are quite good. Can't say the same for Dalton and Brosnan, who go from good to bad and back again.

Edited by right idea, wrong pussy, 12 September 2005 - 02:11 AM.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Something for 'Daylights fans:

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn15-e.htm

[SeanValen00V]

Something for 'Daylights fans:

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn15-e.htm

Great find Sir Tarl.
I expect you be wanting the soft nose ones then.

NO STEAL POINT, snipers usually were body armour.


Oh and Tim Dalton, well, his fame as Bond increases with every year, he's a cult, him and his films are the blade runners of the bond fanchise!! imagine being born 10 years ago, and tomorrow some Bond fan is just poping in The Living Daylights/Licence to kill for the first time, and experiencing the magic of a Tim Dalton Bond film, what a treat.


They are so rewatchable. If I ever make it to into the Casino Royale premiere next year, and if Dalton shows up, I'll flat out say to him, thanks for your contribution, you were ian flemming's bond for me, you captured his spirit like you intended to.


HAIL DALTON!

[mcsearg]

[/quote]

They are so rewatchable..

HAIL DALTON!

[/quote]
So true.. LTK intrigues me because of the great villain and the inspired storyline.. Bond, a rouge agent hell-bent on revenge.. Wow! My LTK DVD is worn out!

[Dalton's Wendy]

Oh and Tim Dalton, well, his fame as Bond increases with every year, he's a cult, him and his films are the blade runners of the bond fanchise!! imagine being born 10 years ago, and tomorrow some Bond fan is just poping in The Living Daylights/Licence to kill for the first time, and experiencing the magic of a Tim Dalton Bond film, what a treat.


They are so rewatchable. If I ever make it to into the Casino Royale premiere next year, and if Dalton shows up, I'll flat out say to him, thanks for your contribution, you were ian flemming's bond for me, you captured his spirit like you intended to.


HAIL DALTON!

And when you see him, please tell him for me: "You were gorgeous, too!"

Nice post, Sean! I liked the way you describe the treat which a first-time viewer has in store. That was exactly how I felt after I watched Daylights for the very first time!

[Scottlee]

I thought Dalton was fantastic. His two Bond films are very safe bets. It's tragic he never made more.

[SeanValen00V]

Oh and Tim Dalton, well, his fame as Bond increases with every year, he's a cult, him and his films are the blade runners of the bond fanchise!! imagine being born 10 years ago, and tomorrow some Bond fan is just poping in The Living Daylights/Licence to kill for the first time, and experiencing the magic of a Tim Dalton Bond film, what a treat.


They are so rewatchable. If I ever make it to into the Casino Royale premiere next year, and if Dalton shows up, I'll flat out say to him, thanks for your contribution, you were ian flemming's bond for me, you captured his spirit like you intended to.


HAIL DALTON!

And when you see him, please tell him for me: "You were gorgeous, too!"

Nice post, Sean! I liked the way you describe the treat which a first-time viewer has in store. That was exactly how I felt after I watched Daylights for the very first time!

Thanks, yep, new bond fans being born every day, perhaps a new bond fan every week just discovering the living daylights and licence to kill for the first time.

Dalton is indeed Bond forever, as long as the earth is around, failing that, send the bond films in outer space, maybe some Aliens will watch Tim Dalton's Bond films, and then clone him or bring back the real one, eternally living on that planet forever, to make 2 bond films every year on their planet. Then releasing his millions of Bond films to the whole galaxy.

Now that is my dream.

Who shares my dream.

[Dalton's Wendy]

send the bond films in outer space, maybe some Aliens will watch Tim Dalton's Bond films, and then clone him or bring back the real one, eternally living on that planet forever,  to make 2 bond films every year on their planet. Then releasing his millions of Bond films to the whole galaxy.

Now that is my dream.

Who shares my dream.

ME!!! I DO!!!! [raised hand waving frantically in the air]

Sean: why not post your comments about "genetically engineered"? I'm certain other DALTON fans would enjoy reading it, if they have not already.

[SeanValen00V]

"The taking it personally vengeance-crazed callous bastard of Licence to Kill is the closest anyone has come to fufilling the opening credits by promising to play James Bond."

Rolling Stones Magazine.

"It was like Dalton was genetically engineered to play Bond."

[Onyx2626]

"The taking it personally vengeance-crazed callous bastard of Licence to Kill is the closest anyone has come to fufilling the opening credits by promising to play James Bond."

Rolling Stones Magazine.

"It was like Dalton was genetically engineered to play Bond."

Only two films, but he gave the series a bit more depth. And took out a decade of too much camp in one performance.

[tdalton]

"The taking it personally vengeance-crazed callous bastard of Licence to Kill is the closest anyone has come to fufilling the opening credits by promising to play James Bond."

Rolling Stones Magazine.

"It was like Dalton was genetically engineered to play Bond."

Only two films, but he gave the series a bit more depth. And took out a decade of too much camp in one performance.

Well said.

[medrecess]

I fully agree with SeanValen.Dalton was not only the most realistic portrayal of Bond but also was enjoyable besides being realistic.I wish Moore had retired immediately after Octopussy and Dalton would have done more bonds.He was so good.Dalton's bond movies i feel were not marketed well enough.I remember how well PB was marketed in GYE -The campaigm was cool-You know the name,you know the number.If only Dalton had such backing.He would surely have been more successful.

[SeanValen00V]

I fully agree with SeanValen.Dalton was not only the most realistic portrayal of Bond but also was enjoyable besides being realistic.I wish Moore had retired immediately after Octopussy and Dalton would have done more bonds.He was so good.Dalton's bond movies i feel were not marketed well enough.I remember how well PB was marketed in GYE -The  campaigm was cool-You know the name,you know the number.If only Dalton had such backing.He would surely have been more successful.

Fully agree, and also with Connery, Moore and Brosnan, but especially for say Roger Moore, it was only until his 3rd Bond film The spy who loved me, did he really gel with the public in a big way. I think Dalton would of been good in for your eyes only and octopussy, swap the films around and have him do a view to a kill earlier, leaving for your eyes only as Dalton's debut, then Octopussy, then living daylights then end it with licence to kill.

Thus summerising my wishful thinking:



Roger Moore probabley should of done OHMSS in a serious way, before he realised he wanted to do tongue and cheek, I think Moore could of played a serious bond, he was brilliant in for your eyes only at times, killing the bad guy in cold blood off that bridge.

So after Connery, maybe Moore should of done diamonds are forever and ohmss, been fresher with his Live and Let die youth which he started bond at the age of 45!

Thus give Moore a earlier start, and let him leave which still looking pretty young:

Connery's films:

Dr No
From Russia with love
Goldfinger
Thunderball
You Only Live Twice
(He got bored after really)

Moore's films:
Diamonds Are Forever
OHMSS
Let and Let Die
The man with the golden gun
The Spy who loved me
Moonraker
A View to a kill(give Moore a better send off and down to earth, plus he'll look fresher, bump up eyes only and octopussy for dalton)

Then Daltons comes in:
For your eyes only
Octopussy
The Living Daylights
Licence to kill

But then again I wish he could of done a bond film in 1991 and 1993


All the actors eras have either gone on a bit too long, or too short. Makes you wish things went differently, hard not to think that way sometimes. You'll need a time machine to go back and tell Cubby the future, so he could of given Dalton a earlier start, or filmed a Bond trilogy alongside Licence to kill in 1989 before the legal wrangelings occured in the early 90s, thus allowing dalton's films to be released in 1991 and 1993 with the benefit of hindsight, or taken kevin mclory to court earlier, say near the end of roger moore's era.

Such is life though, Bond timeline is the way it is

[gabbo]

big tim kicked . he is by far the hardest 007 and not to mention the finest actor

[ChickenStu]

Connery and Brosnan are my favourites, but I have to say I do like Dalton a lot. "The Living Daylights" and "Licence To Kill" are two of the greatest Bond movies out of them all I think. If you watch them as a double bill, then Dalton comes across as a striking, intense Bond.
Even though he only got to do two films, I think his contribution to the series is outstanding and should not be under estimated. He is a great actor, and he was a different, refreshing Bond.