123 replies to this topic

[Loomis]

Originally posted by ChandlerBing

Regarding your feelings about Brosnan and his treatment of women...and you can turn this around if you want to...


"Boo-****ing-hoo."  

If I may be so bold:

- Brosnan is more conventionally good-looking and more obviously attractive to women than Dalton.

- Brosnan is more effeminate than Dalton. More "soft".

- Dalton is less conventionally good-looking and less obviously attractive to women than Brosnan.

- Dalton is more masculine and macho than Brosnan. More "hard".

The above are merely my personal opinions (as opposed to established facts), and I do not ask for anyone to share them.

[SnakeEyes]

With the right incentive, Dalton could have been a real 00.

Brozzy on the other hand would have to 'take breaks' between missions and other silly stuff. (lest he break his fingernails?)

[ChandlerBing]

Having rewatched TLD DVD in the last few days, and in the spirit of this thread, and without holding back....


Dalton was an absolute pussy as Bond.

[SnakeEyes]

You're right. When Kara refused to be kissed in the wheel he should have thrown her out. Showed her who 'wore the pants' (horrible American phrase).

Good job he was throwing women around by LTK.

[Turn]

Originally posted by ChandlerBing
Having rewatched TLD DVD in the last few days, and in the spirit of this thread, and without holding back....


Dalton was an absolute pussy as Bond.

Your opinion and all. But aside from the rather weak argument about Dalton Bond's behavior around Kara, please give us a breakdown why you feel this way the way Loomis does in making his points.

[Tarl_Cabot]

"Dalton was an absolute pussy as Bond."

How so? I'll accept a well reasoned opinion too if you make one! :mad:

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Turn

please give us a breakdown why you feel this way  

Originally posted by ChandlerBing

How so? I'll accept a well reasoned opinion too if you make one!  

Yeah, come on, Chandler, put up or shut up: let's see you construct a decent argument as to why Dalton was a "pussy". (Why not create a new thread to air your views, since we're moving a little from the topic of why LTK underperformed.)

When you call him a "pussy", presumably you're saying that he was insufficiently tough? Now, I would have thought that if we were going to brand any of the Bonds a "pussy", Moore would be the prime candidate, simply because he and his films were (by and large) so jokey. I'm not trying to bash Moore, BTW, since I like him a lot, but I'm rather baffled as to how you can:

(A) Roast Dalton for being a "pussy", while ignoring the fact that his predecessor, Moore, was the least menacing and violent and the most tongue-in-cheek of all the Bonds, and

( Slam Dalton for "getting gooey eyed" over women, while ignoring the fact that Brosnan's Bond is well-known for his sentimentality, soppiness and tearful shoulder-chewing.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Loomis


Now, I would have thought that if we were going to brand any of the Bonds a "pussy", Moore would be the prime candidate, simply because he and his films were (by and large) so jokey.  

You know Loomis, we were getting along so well until you had to go and spoil it.
Look at Moore's treatment of Andrea in the hotel room in TMWTGG and the way Moore dealt with Sandor in TSWLM and Locque in FYEO and justify your statement!?

[Loomis]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow

Look at Moore's treatment of Andrea in the hotel room in TMWTGG and the way Moore dealt with Sandor in TSWLM and Locque in FYEO and justify your statement!?  

Note that I wrote that Moore "and his films were (by and large) so jokey". Those toughness scenes you mention were very much the exception and not the rule.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Yeah Dsnow, Roger stopped being vicious after TMWTGG, his best effort, imho.He wasn't soft but just not as brutal as he was in his first two films. I liked Roger though-Roger in TMWTGG is as good as anyone.

Loomis how do get those italics to work??

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot

Roger stopped being vicious after TMWTGG, his best effort, imho.He wasn't soft but just not as brutal as he was in his first two films.  

You know, it really makes me laugh that someone can call Dalton a "pussy" when you consider whom he replaced. In the two films immediately prior to THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS (OCTOPUSSY and A VIEW TO A KILL) Moore displays not the slightest hint of toughness or coldbloodedness - by that point in the series, he was playing the Bond role purely for laughs, as a sort of kindly old uncle figure. The franchise was total and utter fun-for-all-the-family pantomime at that stage, closer to POLICE ACADEMY than Fleming.

Yeah, like people came out of TLD saying: "This new guy's a real wimp, not like that tough, mean Roger Moore. Man, if Moore hit you you know you'd stay down.":rolleyes:

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot

Loomis how do get those italics to work??  

Type [/i] AFTER typing [i], then type whatever you want in between.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot
Yeah Dsnow, Roger stopped being vicious after TMWTGG, his best effort, imho.He wasn't soft but just not as brutal as he was in his first two films. I liked Roger though-Roger in TMWTGG is as good as anyone.

Loomis how do get those italics to work??

What about the manner in which he dispatched Sandor in TSWLM?

[SnakeEyes]

The point is, Moore is usually not 'tough' and a couple moments don't make the man.

Heck, he was really in doubt about kicking the car over the cliff in FYEO, wheras you can only imagine the angry face and 'glee' Dalton would have had putting the car over the edge.

I do enjoy Roger's films, however, not because they are hard edged (LALD, TMWTGG and FYEO outstanding)

[Tarl_Cabot]

That was great, I agree, maybe one Bond's five to ten greatest moments in the whole series. In later films he just reserved his brutality for henchmen trying to kill him. But in 'Gun' he points a rifle at the gunsmith's groin, slaps Andrea and puts her in a submission hold...etc. He was just cold as ice in that scene, and really suave at the same time, which made him seem very threatening .

Yay! I used italics! Woohoo!

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by ChandlerBing
I have said it before, and I will say it again:  The majority of moviegoers just did not accept Timothy Dalton as James Bond.  The box office AND attendence figures support that.  People wanted Pierce Brosnan.  Those ratings for Remington Steele spiking the way they did should say something.  Of course, when they ****ed him out of the role, people stopped watching.  
Dalton was way too serious.  Coming off of Roger Moore, people wondered what the hell had happened to their movies.  Instead of Bond ****ing women like Pussy Galore and Honey Rider left and right, we have Dalton getting gooey eyed over Kara...and Pam...and Lupe....I have to laugh when some people on this board rip Brosnan for the way he is around women.  WELL, AT LEAST HE'S ****ING THEM LIKE BOND SHOULD!!!!

And why is it that you never EVER seem to back up your opinion about Dalton-as-wimpy-Bond with ANY attempt whatsoever at a genuine argument? Instead, all we get is this cr-p:

"Boo-****ing-hoo.">

Gee, such wit and intelligence, a really compelling rejoinder, Chandler. I'm SO impressed. It's with such retorts that prove to me how utterly worthless your opinion on this particular point is.

When you say Dalton was too serious, charmless, etc., I don't argue the point, that's a perfectly reasonable opinion and easily backed up by what we see on screen. Anyone can easily compare Dalton's Bond with the other characters and see that, indeed, he was very serious. When Jim calls him a "middle class scruffbag" (still my favorite description of him) or when MBE questions his anger at Saunders' death, and the emotion he displays over it, I do not argue because I believe these are perfectly valid opinions backed up by real arguments--using what we see on screen to explain these statements.

But you do not do this.

This "wussy"/"unmasculine" garbage is so much hypocritical idiocy and I can't take it seriously as anything more than immature claptrap coming from some frustrated fanboy with neanderthal, childish and contradictory notions of manhood. What are you, 12? There's no reason or logic to your opinion on this point, you back it up with absolutely no substantive arguments whatsoever except immature bargain-basement insults. It's an opinion merely based on contradictory, hypocritical prejudice against *Dalton*. You have absolutely no problem with Brosnan's Bond taking insults and order from women, needing female sidekicks to help him, showing obvious emotion and weakness in his "love" for Paris and Elektra---but Dalton's Bond acting like an ADULT MATURE MAN, treating Kara with professionalism, thought, sometimes impatience and thoughtlessness, and a growing fondness makes him a "wimp."

God help your girlfriend or wife.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Jaelle

And why is it that you never EVER seem to back up your opinion about Dalton-as-wimpy-Bond with ANY attempt whatsoever at a genuine argument?  Instead, all we get is this cr-p:

"Boo-****ing-hoo.">

Gee, such wit and intelligence, a really compelling rejoinder, Chandler.  I'm SO impressed.  It's with such retorts that prove to me how utterly worthless your opinion on this particular point is.

When you say Dalton was too serious, charmless, etc., I don't argue the point, that's a perfectly reasonable opinion and easily backed up by what we see on screen.  Anyone can easily compare Dalton's Bond with the other characters and see that, indeed, he was very serious.  When Jim calls him a "middle class scruffbag" (still my favorite description of him) or when MBE questions his anger at Saunders' death, and the emotion he displays over it, I do not argue because I believe these are perfectly valid opinions backed up by real arguments--using what we see on screen to explain these statements.

But you do not do this.

This "wussy"/"unmasculine" garbage is so much hypocritical idiocy and I can't take it seriously as anything more than immature claptrap coming from some frustrated fanboy with neanderthal, childish and contradictory notions of manhood.  What are you, 12?  There's no reason or logic to your opinion on this point, you back it up with absolutely no substantive arguments whatsoever except immature bargain-basement insults.  It's an opinion merely based on contradictory, hypocritical prejudice against *Dalton*.  You have absolutely no problem with Brosnan's Bond taking insults and order from  women, needing female sidekicks to help him, showing obvious emotion and weakness in his "love" for Paris and Elektra---but Dalton's Bond acting like an ADULT MATURE MAN, treating Kara with professionalism, thought, sometimes impatience and thoughtlessness, and a growing fondness makes him a "wimp."  

God help your girlfriend or wife.  

Agreed with all that. I guess Chandler decided to shut up rather than put up.

[Turn]

I wondered when you would show up, Jaelle. I figured this one wouldn't pass without some commentary from you.

[ChandlerBing]

Actually, Chandler has a life and doesn't spend as much time on the Net as he used to. Sorry, fellas, if you interpreted my silence here as compliance. I don't like Dalton, some of you hate Brosnan. I'm ok with it, many of you don't seem to be. I hope your lives become much happier.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Turn
I wondered when you would show up, Jaelle. I figured this one wouldn't pass without some commentary from you.

It took me awhile to get here and I wasn't going to reply but my emotions got the better of me, per usual.

I hope you understand, Turn, that I come on strong only when someone throws what I believe to be a petty, ridiculous insult at Dalton not backed up by any kind of argument, not when--say--someone criticizes him for his interpretation of Bond. DiLibrasnow recently posted a couple of strong posts saying that it was all Dalton's fault that LTK failed, but I didn't argue with him like I just did with Chandler.

And I admit my total bafflement when someone actually questions Dalton's masculinity. This is a guy whom I've read a zillion words about since the mid-70s, who is so often described as "ruggedly handsome" by his interviewers, who one Irish barkeep described as "a man's man" after Dalton spent hours at an Irish pub with a bunch of rowdy soccer players in Cork County around 1990---a guy with whom I've seen (and read) female interviewers lose all their professionalism and openly flirt, a guy whose mere name elicits from females reactions like "ohhhhhh him!" [insert generic silly female dreamy-eyed look], a guy with whom I associate with very powerful rough, masculine qualities (look at his hands--they're like a construction worker's) being called a wuss or other such idiocy. Anyone who sees him in person knows what an imposing fellow he is--it's not just his height, it's also his presence. Maryam D'Abo described in a few interviews in the 80s how people who met Dalton personally realized how very "physical" and "present" he is in person. So, ok, that's a sore point with me.

Call him charmless, humorless, inappropriate for Bond, etc., fine. But question his toughness as a man and expect to hear from *me.* Repeat it all you want, it's a free internet (sort of), but you *will* hear from me.:mad:

If I'm around, that is.

[DLibrasnow]

It baffles me that anyone would question Daltons masculinity....This is a man who shocked me in the 1980s by talking about how women should know their place and being disgusted by men who need a womans support.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by ChandlerBing

Actually, Chandler has a life and doesn't spend as much time on the Net as he used to.  Sorry, fellas, if you interpreted my silence here as compliance.  I don't like Dalton, some of you hate Brosnan.  I'm ok with it, many of you don't seem to be.  I hope your lives become much happier.  

Oh, please. No one's saying you don't have a life. And no one's picking on you, so no need to play the victim card. It amuses me greatly that you seem to believe your attacks on Dalton genuinely rattle the Dalton fans on CBn, as though he's our idol and you have the power to upset us by slamming him.

What we're attacking is the way you make all sorts of mean-spirited, nonsensical claims about Dalton ("He's a fag", "He's a wuss", "He's hideous", "He couldn't get laid in a morgue", etc.) without even the most rudimentary attempts at backing them up in any way, shape or form.

And when you're called out on this, you act all aggrieved and innocent.

[SnakeEyes]

Maybe, whilst having a life, it's not the kind of life he would like to lead, and feels he needs to lash out?

But this isn't the place or the thread, is it.

Dalton was a good Bond, and noones whines can change that

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
It baffles me that anyone would question Daltons masculinity....This is a man who shocked me in the 1980s by talking about how women should know their place and being disgusted by men who need a womans support.

Yup, that was Tim all over back then. He's mellowed a bit since then, admitting to his chauvinism in various interviews in the late 90s. But he still has a bit of that in him. Look at the furor he created over his comments about Scarlett the character during the whole promo tour for that miniseries, in which he called her a "c-nt," "manipulative, selfish, greedy, a liar, a b-tch, she's a horror." He ain't no feminist's dream, let me tell you (and I say that as a feminist myself).

[Tarl_Cabot]

The C word and other vulgar adjectives don't sound so bad when voiced by a brit. Those limies can curse and make it sound classy.

[DLibrasnow]

Don't know about that....it still sounds quite vulgar!

[SnakeEyes]

Rofl, that sounds pretty funny.

Although I don't see how a Brit can curse and sound classy...

[Tarl_Cabot]

They don't sound as bad as we yanks do-same as the french when they speak english.

[DLibrasnow]

Damn.....one of my weaknesses, girls with French accents!

[Tarl_Cabot]

yep, The French are awesome. Melina, Domino,Electra...

[DLibrasnow]

Let's not forget about Vanessa Paradis either!