123 replies to this topic

[Tarl_Cabot]

The subsequent six-year break was terrible for us fans, but in many ways it was a necessary rest for the people who make the Bond films."

I disagree. Summers 1991 and 1993 had a realitively low blockbuster count. The series would have prospered in those years if the material was good. Roger didn't make his splash until TSWLM-than he was a popular Bond. Summer '91 was so weak that I think a Dalton Bond would have excelled...

Dlibrasnow has done a huge 180 on Dalton. No doubt about it. I guess we converted him to the dark side!

[Tarl_Cabot]

next we'll hear TWINE is a great Bond movie. :eek:

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot
T
Dlibrasnow has done a huge 180 on Dalton. No doubt about it. I guess we converted him to the dark side!

I don't know where you get the impression I didn't like Dalton - I did!

[Loomis]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow

I don't know where you get the impression I didn't like Dalton - I did!  

Yeah, and I like Brosnan.

[DLibrasnow]

Loomis stop being silly. I have always been a fan of The Living Daylights

[Loomis]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow

Loomis stop being silly.

I'm not being silly. I'm glad you're a fan of THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS. Good for you. But you have certainly never come across to me as a Dalton fan, and many statements that you've made on these forums would lead one to believe that you hated Dalton's portrayal of Bond. Indeed, many of the things you've written would seem to have been designed especially to wind up Dalton fans.

Now, if you like it, that's great, and if you don't like it, that's also great - it's up to you, and it doesn't affect anyone else in any way. But I'm not the only one who thinks that you've done a sudden about-turn on Dalton.

[DLibrasnow]

Just because I have not ranted and raved about how wonderful Dalton was as Bond does not mean I hated his portrayal. Sure, I prefer Moore as 007 but I also like Dalton in the role.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow

Just because I have not ranted and raved about how wonderful Dalton was as Bond does not mean I hated his portrayal.  

It's not just that you haven't "ranted and raved" - it's that you seemed on several occasions to have deliberately set out to bait and goad Dalton fans. If I'm wrong, please take my apology as read, and I'm not trying to attack you here or start a row. I'm just stating that many of your past remarks (e.g. "Two Dalton films were two too many") cause me to feel surprise when you say you like Dalton/TLD.

[DLibrasnow]

Fair enough.....but I think you took that "two films" comment - which I do admit to saying - out of context.

[DLibrasnow]

You have to remember that my all-time favorite cult classic is the 1980 movie "Flash Gordon" which featured a certain Welsh actor in the role of Prince Barin.

I also really enjoyed the movie "The Rocketeer" which had said actor playing it up as the villain.

[Jim]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot
Summers 1991 and 1993 had a realitively low blockbuster count. The series would have prospered in those years if the material was good. Roger didn't make his splash until TSWLM-than he was a popular Bond. Summer '91 was so weak that I think a Dalton Bond would have excelled...

This is a really interesting point.

I know this is with the benefit of hindsight, but would a Dalton Bond (or, indeed, anyone else) have stood much chance (critically) against Terminator 2 and (yes I know it's awful) Rahhhbiiinn Hood in summer 1991, or Jurassic Park in summer 1993 (and I can hear the "James Bond: dinosaur?" comments now).

This said, can't remember very much from the winter of 1991 and 1993 (The Fugitive?) respectively, so if Bond films had been released then...well, who knows?

[DLibrasnow]

This is true....I don't recall much from those two years as far as big movies go.

[Tarl_Cabot]

The Firm? Batman 2? Leathal Weapon 3? T2? [censuré]! A good Dalton Bond would have done well....Jurrasic Park was a monster hit but it came out early summer and Bond usually comes out in July...

[Genrewriter]

Winter of 1991 would have been a good release time for a third Dalton film as the only major competition was Hook. Not exactly a masterpiece. Summer of 1991 would have been interesting as it would have been going right up against T2 if a July release date were chosen.

[TheBritishEnd]

I think LTK deviated a little too far from the traditional Bond formula, in a summer where audiences clearly felt most comfortable with the familiar. Batman was not the big winner of that summer, as Indy 3 went on to become the highest grossing film of the entire year.

[DLibrasnow]

Batman did manage to make buckets of money though!

[Tarl_Cabot]

an adaptation of 'Icebreaker' with John Barry would have been awesome and made bigtime bucks in 1991.

[DLibrasnow]

I would agree with you on that Tarl!

[Tarl_Cabot]

I think we agree on a lot of things now that you came out of the (Daltonite) closet! :eek:

[Jaelle]

Wow, this thread certainly went wild while I was away! Fascinating reading! Hey Snowie, I think I understand you. Your feelings on Dalton as Bond are all over the map, unresolved, conflicted, no? Sometimes you like him, other times not? Depends on your mood? As a diehard Moore fan, you probably felt quite annoyed (and are still annoyed) with the way Roger's tenure was treated in 1986-7 in the press, by EON, perhaps by certain things Dalton himself said about Roger's films? So maybe Dalton's Bond tenure is associated in your mind with the trashing of Moore's Bond films? That's ok, I identify.

I think I can understand. It makes absolutely no rational sense but we sometimes get so attached to a particular actor/character that our emotions get the better of us. I still get irritated when I read some of the PR in 1994-5 about Dalton in the wake of Brosnan's takeover in the role. Some of the stuff I've heard coming out of Brosnan's mouth on Dalton's films turn me into a little brat wanting to slap him across the face. It's just dum, but there it is. I really do try to separate my Dalton bias from my response to Brosnan's Bond but sometimes it gets the better of me.

Anyway, re LTK...I just keep coming back to what I think is the most important factor: PUBLICITY, PUBLICITY, PUBLICITY. People will go see a movie that's massively shoved down their throats in TV ads, billboards and other press venues. In the summer of 1989, LTK's promo presence could hardly be found anywhere. Same with this year's KILL BILL here in the US---widely distributed, practically *zero* PR campaign.

And I continue to be amazed at how LTK is a never-ending subject of debate and discussion, while such superior Bond films like GF, FRWL and TB don't get as much (tho they certainly should).

[Sensualist]

Originally posted by TheBritishEnd
Batman was not the big winner of that summer, as Indy 3 went on to become the highest grossing film of the entire year.

In the US Batman was the big winner:

Batman.............US Box Office.....$251 million....Release: June 23

Last Crusade......US Box Office......$197 million....Release: May 24

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Sensualist

Batman.............US Box Office.....$251 million....Release: June 23

Last Crusade......US Box Office......$197 million....Release: May 24  

Wasn't LAST CRUSADE the highest-grossing film of '89 internationally?

[Sensualist]

Originally posted by Loomis


Wasn't LAST CRUSADE the highest-grossing film of '89 internationally?

Yes.

This thread, however, IS about US Box Office performance, non?

LTK did "reasonably well" internationally.

[Turn]

Originally posted by Jaelle
Anyway, re LTK...I just keep coming back to what I think is the most important factor: PUBLICITY, PUBLICITY, PUBLICITY.  People will go see a movie that's massively shoved down their throats in TV ads, billboards and other press venues.  In the summer of 1989, LTK's promo presence  could hardly be found anywhere.  Same with this year's KILL BILL here in the US---widely distributed, practically *zero* PR campaign.

I agree. I still maintain EON was coasting at this point. Thinking it had a proven brand name it could get by on reputation. But they needed to do work as there was a still unproven Bond in Dalton, they had a film that was out-of-step with most of the rest of the recent entries in the series and a lot of competition it had to differentiate itself from.

The other action series of the day were new and fresh and they needed to "sell" Bond to the next generation of filmgoers. When you consider the massive publicity campaign for Batman it makes it even more clear. There were bats everywhere in the summer of '89.

[SnakeEyes]

Other than the Dalton/007watch trailer (if you've seen it, you know you love it ) the ad campaign was just basically terrible. Not only did the posters look like I made them (a poor collage of film elements surrounding Dalton) but they also alienated you from the 'Bond' feeling. The just didn't look like Bond posters. Look at TLD posters - inescapably Bond, then the LTK posters - some kinda action film, could be anything really. Doesn't really set your heart alight thinking "gosh, it's the next bond" does it?
You have to force feed a new Bond to the audience untill he has been acepted. Did people really go an see DAF because it was a good film (chuckle) or because the ad campaign force fed them the words "SEAN CONNERY IS JAMES BOND!"?

[ChandlerBing]

I have said it before, and I will say it again: The majority of moviegoers just did not accept Timothy Dalton as James Bond. The box office AND attendence figures support that. People wanted Pierce Brosnan. Those ratings for Remington Steele spiking the way they did should say something. Of course, when they ****ed him out of the role, people stopped watching.

Dalton was way too serious. Coming off of Roger Moore, people wondered what the hell had happened to their movies. Instead of Bond ****ing women like Pussy Galore and Honey Rider left and right, we have Dalton getting gooey eyed over Kara...and Pam...and Lupe....I have to laugh when some people on this board rip Brosnan for the way he is around women. WELL, AT LEAST HE'S ****ING THEM LIKE BOND SHOULD!!!!

[Loomis]

Originally posted by ChandlerBing

WELL, AT LEAST HE'S ****ING THEM LIKE BOND SHOULD!!!!

What, by gnawing their shoulders and getting all soppy?

If any Bond can be accused of "getting gooey eyed" over women, it's Brosnan.

[Turn]

Originally posted by ChandlerBing
I have said it before, and I will say it again:  The majority of moviegoers just did not accept Timothy Dalton as James Bond.  The box office AND attendence figures support that.  People wanted Pierce Brosnan.  Those ratings for Remington Steele spiking the way they did should say something.  Of course, when they ****ed him out of the role, people stopped watching.  

Dalton was way too serious.  Coming off of Roger Moore, people wondered what the hell had happened to their movies.  Instead of Bond ****ing women like Pussy Galore and Honey Rider left and right, we have Dalton getting gooey eyed over Kara...and Pam...and Lupe....I have to laugh when some people on this board rip Brosnan for the way he is around women.  WELL, AT LEAST HE'S ****ING THEM LIKE BOND SHOULD!!!!

Chandler, can you prove the ratings for Steele fell just because Brosnan didn't get the role? The show was on its last legs before. Shouldn't they have gone up if people were so interested?

While Dalton's Bond was a little careful around Kara, the rest of your statement hardly holds up about the LTK women. He holds a knife to Lupe's throat on the Wavekrest and slams Pam on the bed and points a gun in her face. Then he uses Lupe in a way that would have made Connery's Bond proud. Hardly gooey-eyed stuff.

So laugh if you want, but it was the TWINE Bond who practically wept himself at Elektra's tears. And he didn't do anything with the Wai Lin character until that lip-lock at the end of TND.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Turn

it was the TWINE Bond who practically wept himself at Elektra's tears. And he didn't do anything with the Wai Lin character until that lip-lock at the end of TND.  

Yeah, and look at his behaviour while trying to save Jinx in the hot spring. "Ooh, it's warm in here." *Blub* "You're alive!" *Sob* *Chews Jinx's shoulder*

Dalton's Bond was considerably more masculine/macho/tough/whatever you want to call it than Brosnan's.

[ChandlerBing]

Regarding your feelings about Brosnan and his treatment of women...and you can turn this around if you want to...


"Boo-****ing-hoo."