152 replies to this topic

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

Ah but also then going to see a film in the movies was the only way you'd be able to see it until it appeared on TV years, sometimes decades later. Films would also run for more than a couple of months, sometimes a year and they'd be re-released later. Now people can wait until DVD, or PPV or Cable and they only have to wait a few months, and it's cheaper than going to the movies. Last year in the U.S. more revenue came from DVD sales and rentals than from the Box Office

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Blofeld's Cat

In that 40 year space of time world populations have increased (some may say drastically) thus potentially supplying a higher participation level for later movies in the series. I guess the increase of participation has negated any waning of interest in the franchise. Which, of course, is a very good thing.

Correct, and also new markets have opened up for the Bond movies. It wasn't until the late 1980s that Bond movies were released in territories such as Russia and China.

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

Yes but we were talking the U.S. fan base weren't we? Russia and China impact International admissions. The U.S. population has grown I believe by about 45% from about 200m in the 60's to about 290m now, so yeah more bodies available for Bond-age.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Originally posted by Mourning Becomes Electra
Ah but also then going to see a film in the movies was the only way you'd be able to see it until it appeared on TV years, sometimes decades later.  Films would also run for more than a couple of months, sometimes a year and they'd be re-released later.  Now people can wait until DVD, or PPV or Cable and they only have to wait a few months, and it's cheaper than going to the movies.  Last year in the U.S. more revenue came from DVD sales and rentals than from the Box Office

That's true for the movie industry as a whole, but the participation for Bond movies these days are really mainly generated by "the fan" who still wants to see them in the cinema first, and in a lot of cases, many times over. The fan base has increased per head due in part to poulation growth. Over the 40 year period father takes son who later takes son and friends, etc. More children are allowed to see a Bond movie than before due to the producers making sure of attaining a certain censorship classification as well the general social attitudes to sex and violence has become more broadminded.

Lets face it, there's much more competition for Bond at the boxoffice than ever before and there are even cries from fans saying that the Bond movies are more imitator than ennovator these days, but the participation levels are higher dispite this.

[Dr.Carl Mortner]

OK, let's look at it this way: last winter was a VERY competitive month with both Harry Potter and LOTR looming on the horizon. Yet DAD remained in the top one or two position for THREE weeks. Have you noticed the way blockbusters have opened big and died this summer? Hardly a one of them (X2, Matrix Reloaded, Hulk) had legs enough to carry them past their first week or two of release. DAD had exceptional legs for a movie facing such stiff competition. I think, timed right and with strong enough marketing, that Bond could enter the summer sweeps again.

[DLibrasnow]

I don't think that last Christmas was any more competitive than any other holiday season and although DAD did do some good business it was beaten by both Harry Potter and LOTR.

[ray t]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
I don't think that last Christmas was any more competitive than any other holiday season and although DAD did do some good business it was beaten by both Harry Potter and LOTR.

c'mon...that was expected and u know it, my friend. why state the obvious?

hp and lort destroyed everything under the sun (except spiderman)...ever star wars ep. II

what is impressive is that DAD did MUCH better than your own projection of $300 mil world-wide

what is even more impressive is that i projected a $430 mil take on these forums AND predicted that harry potter 2 would generate $100 million LESS than the first potter. which is exactly what happened.

now THAT is impressive

i remember some of us saying that 'treasure planet' and, *COUGH*, 'solaris' were gonna knock off DAD...

er, sure....

[ray t]

Originally posted by Dr.Carl Mortner
OK, let's look at it this way: last winter was a VERY competitive month with both Harry Potter and LOTR looming on the horizon. Yet DAD remained in the top one or two position for THREE weeks.

in fact, Dr. Carl, what was amazing to see was bond in its 2nd weekend (the long thanksgiving weekend in the u.s.) dropped to number 2 for the friday-sunday frame, but (BUT), was number 1 over the 5 day wed-sun frame.

so, effectively, DAD was number 1 for 3 weekends in a row. that did put a smile on my face back then...

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by ray t

what is even more impressive is that i projected a $430 mil take on these forums AND predicted that harry potter 2 would generate $100 million LESS than the first potter. which is exactly what happened.

now THAT is impressive

i remember some of us saying that 'treasure planet' and, *COUGH*, 'solaris' were gonna knock off DAD...

er, sure....

I remember some people also saying that Harry Potter was a has-been and that Bond would beat Potter, when in fact the second installment of the boy wizard franchise made about $100 million more in the US than 007.
I'm not saying DAD didn't do impressive business at the box office, but I would also not say that Christmas 2002 was any more competitive than any other holiday period...I think the Bond movie that faced the biggest competition in the U.S. (since I have been following the series in 1979) was probably "Octopussy" in 1983 (or perhaps FYEO in 1981).

[Jaelle]

Reading all the different arguments in this thread is making my head hurt....

But from all the different stats and interpretations in this thread, I think I've come to the conclusion that given all the competition, the advent of dvds and the internet, and given the *age* of the Bond franchise, the Bond films are doing remarkably well both in the US and around the the world. That may not be anything new to you folks but I actually came to this board thinking the opposite.

[ray t]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow


I remember some people also saying that Harry Potter was a has-been and that Bond would beat Potter

darren, those people must have been smoking crack...bond was NEVER going to beat potter in terms of final numbers

ya needed to extrapolate what the previous three broz-bonds had done
in relation to HP 1, use an admissions price multiplier for bond while taking away some hype factor for hp 2 to get an idea of what was going to happen

and what happened was exactly what was supposed to happen

this year LORT III will likely come in at $900-950 mill world-wide. its not rocket science.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot

I have a book that adresses this question. 'The suited hero:James Bond, dressed to kill'. Americans are not as classy as Europeans and other people around the world. America is a dressed down culture; our  manners are casual.Good intentions and manners are not the same thing but most people don't know the difference.

We don't have regular formal occasions.People here wear shorts and flip flops in 5 star hotels.We don't have royalty in America so we worship the ****ing Kennedys and celebrities.I think that's why Bond is both popular and also not REALLY popular: He is popular because we envy his lifestyle of frequenting fancy locals, casinos in black tie, Operas, Race tracks and various places where rich, aristocratic people congregate...

Bond's apeal is a double edged sword. What many of us admire about him is also what makes it hard to relate to him for lots of people. The majority of America listens to country music and drives a pick up truck. So, the blue collar heroes tend to be bigger at the box office. This is only my theory...  

Very well put, Tarl_Cabot.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Loomis


Very well put, Tarl_Cabot.

Yeah, I actually kept Tarl's post -- very thoughtful and nicely written analysis.

[Dr. Tynan]

Not being rude, but is Tarl joking or have I misunderstood him?

[Tarl_Cabot]

"Not being rude, but is Tarl joking or have I misunderstood him? "

Good question...It's up to you really...cheers!

[Dr. Tynan]

Well I'd say this is a joke or maybe something else. "Most Americans drive a Pick-up truck." Don't know many Americans, never been there, so how would I know. I just find that hard to believe.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot
The majority of America listens to country music and drives a pick up truck.

That may be true in the midwest...but not here on the East Coast.

[Tarl_Cabot]

The east coast is a realatively small area, despite being a major center...

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot

The majority of America listens to country music and drives a pick up truck.  

MAIN STREET SOMEWHERE IN FLYOVER COUNTRY. NIGHT.

Three unshaven, disreputable-looking men in their 30s wearing lumberjack shirts, BILLY BOB, CLYDE and OTIS, exit the movie theater. DIE ANOTHER DAY is showing there, and the three went in assuming the movie theater was a strip joint, because of the poster outside showing a goregous woman in an orange bikini.

The three men stand outside the theater, looking deeply shocked. They light up cigarettes.

CLYDE: C'mon, better git movin', don't wanna be arrested for loitering again.

BILLY BOB and OTIS: I hear ya.

We follow them as they walk off.

OTIS: Those guns were nice.

BILLY BOB: Yep.

CLYDE: I liked that cuss fight between Jinx and Miranda.

OTIS: Where's Korea?

BILLY BOB: Over yonder. I guess.

CLYDE: Shee-it.

OTIS (patting a bulge in his shirt): At least I got me some toilet paper from the restroom.

BILLY BOB: Yeah.

OTIS: Those guns were nice. They should show that movie to anyone who disagrees with the NRA. Shut 'em up.

BILLY BOB: Yeah. Shall we go to the Snack Bar at Wal-Mart now?

CLYDE: Sounds good to me.

OTIS: Sure did have a purty mouth.

BILLY BOB: Gustav Graves?

OTIS: No, Jinx. Well, Gustav Graves too. Heh heh.

BILLY BOB and CLYDE: Heh heh.

OTIS: It was a good film, but why did they have to get some stiff-assed Brit to star in it?

BILLY BOB: Yeah. Limey faggot.

CLYDE: Britain? Is that near Germany?

Just then, dozens of ATF agents appear from nowhere and surround Billy Bob, Clyde and Otis.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Loomis


MAIN STREET SOMEWHERE IN FLYOVER COUNTRY. NIGHT.

[i]Three unshaven, disreputable-looking men in their 30s wearing lumberjack shirts, BILLY BOB, CLYDE and OTIS, exit the movie theater. DIE ANOTHER DAY is showing there, and the three went in assuming the movie theater was a strip joint, because of the poster outside showing a goregous woman in an orange bikini. [snip rest of Loomis' brilliance]

Bwahhhhhhhhh!!!:D

Thank you for giving me such a great laugh to end the workday, Loomis!!!

[Tarl_Cabot]

Sorry if that sounded snotty or condescending. Apologies to all people who drive pick ups and like country music. But I made the observation based on a recent drive from San Diego to Miami and Chicago to Dallas. America is a 'country' country, for the most part.That's a fact.I think it's a reasonable assumption many poeple here do not relate to him, ie see themselves in him vicariously...The grosses for Bond have really never been very spectacular, except for the 60's in the hieght in Bond mania...

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot

Sorry if that sounded snotty or condescending. Apologies to all people who drive pick ups and like country music.  

I didn't think you were being snotty or condescending. I was just "having a laugh" with my above post.

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot

America is a 'country' country, for the most part.That's a fact.I think it's a reasonable assumption many poeple here do not relate to him, ie see themselves in him vicariously...The grosses for Bond have really never been very spectacular, except for the 60's in the hieght in Bond mania...  

That's my view exactly.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Originally posted by Loomis
OTIS: Sure did have a purty mouth.

BILLY BOB: Gustav Graves?

OTIS: No, Jinx. Well, Gustav Graves too. Heh heh.

BILLY BOB and CLYDE: Heh heh.

LOL!

"I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK..."

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Blofeld's Cat

LOL!

"I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK..."

Squeal like a pig, boy!

[Tarl_Cabot]

"I didn't think you were being snotty or condescending. I was just "having a laugh" with my above post."

Thanks,I realized that but I thought there may be a few CBNers who might take offense...that guy in Arkansas for example....cheers

[Dr.Carl Mortner]

What you have to understand is that those guys who told George Lazenby that Bond was passe and the hippies were taking over were partly right, especially in America. In the '60s, America was in love with the jet-setting Kennedy image that Bond seemed to embrace. Towards the turbulent late-'60s and early-'70s, however, Bond was starting to be seen as a hero of the materialistic, social-climbing establishment.

We see the fallout of the hippie generation in our society today. Did you have a casual Friday at the office today? Thank the hippies. Did your last date pay for herself? Thank the hippie generation. In the middle of all this, Bond -- who once looked like the patron saint of sexual freedom -- started to look very square. To some degree, that impression lingers today.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Very well put Dr.Carl.Too bad Laz walked away after such a great film. He was a good Bond.

[Kristian]

Personally, I think that given a choice between the latest MISSION IMPOSSIBLE offering versus the latest Bond film, more Americans will see MI. In fact, I know more Americans who scoff at Bond, than actually like him. I seem to be in the minority where I live.

Bottom line: Yes, Loomis, I think there is a disparity between the world's devotion to Bond, and the U.S.'s, ahem, mild curiosity about him. This is evident in EON's desperate attempts to court the "young male demographic"...

1. Hiring Teri Hatcher for TND because she's the most downloaded female on the Internet, circa 1997.

2. Hiring Denise Richards for TWINE, because of WILD THINGS and because she's the most downloaded female on the Internet, circa 1999.

3. Hiring Halle Berry for DAD because she flashed her tits in SWORDFISH.

4. Hiring Madonna for the DAD song because, well, she's Madonna.

They're doing all this because they want MI-level grosses. And let's face it, DAD's $160 million dollar U.S. Gross is nothing to brag about. I seem to recall a report saying that EON expected a $200 million dollar U.S. take. Even so, for a film with a combined budget and marketing cost of upwards of $160 million, that's nothing to cream your jeans about.

And they had to huff and puff, and wheeze and sneeze, and "Yo-mama"-fy, and thrown in Robocop and face-changing and basically throw out most things Bondian to get that kind of money.

I honestly believe it's a lost cause. EON should give up on its pipe dream, cut the films' budgets, and settle for GE, TWINE, and TND-type grosses.

EON, stop trying to sell Bond to the PlayStation crowd. They don't care about him as much as you would like to think.

[ray t]

Originally posted by Kristian


...that's nothing to cream your jeans about.    

wow kristian, have'nt heard that kinda talk in a while:cool:

[Kristian]

Originally posted by ray t


wow kristian, have'nt heard that kinda talk in a while:cool:

Sorry... Sometimes I forget this is a PG-13 site.