98 replies to this topic

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Dunphboy007
Amen Jaelle, a point well made!

It is far more important for an actor to make a living, second to that has to be your respect as an actor, if you do not have respect, and constantly sell yourself merely for the money, then either you will be typecast or undervalued, and eventually people will see you as talentless.  

Actors generally seek roles that challenge them, and just because Dalton (or any other actor) hasn't picked a mainstream project to work on doesn't neccessarily mean they are failures, fair enough if they continually pick B Movies or Straight-to-TV jobs then one gets the feeling they are trying to break into higher echelons, but I believe as an actor-in-training myself, if I ever break into the industry that it's far more important to have respect than to have tabloid inches. Maybe I'm naive?

Exactly. This is an important topic to me. I teach English and drama, I've directed 8 college plays, 4 high school plays and 6 community theater plays. I see Bway and off-Bway plays almost every week. Wherever I am in the US or in the world, I immediately seek out the nearest theaters. I have many, many friends working in the theater---playwrights and actors but mostly tech crew. No one on this board will never hear most of their names anywhere. But THE best actor I've ever seen in my life is a gentleman who's about 55 now who's worked all over the east coast all his life in theater (done a few commercials and about 5 small films). Like Dalton and the actors I've mentioned above, he's thoroughly dedicated to the craft of *acting*---that's what he's interested in doing. And he's only known by a very few people. I'm not trashing the worth of famous actors like Ford or Connery, whose work speaks for themselves. It's just too bad there are people who can't believe that there are artists who truly don't put fame and money as high priorities for their careers.

[Blox]

"Dr. Mortner" opined: "I think Sean Connery is tremendously overrated as Bond...by the general movie-going public. It's frustrating to me that people are touting decades-old opinions to put Connery on top of Moore

[Dr.Carl Mortner]

Blox, let's just agree to disagree. If Bond is as much of a blank slate as you suggest, perhaps I just prefer (minutely, I might add) the way Moore filled the slate compared to Connery.

Connery is overrated as Bond the same way the Beatles are overrated as the greatest pop band of all time. The suggestion doesn't diminish the greatness of either of them; it just suggests that they are NOT God Almighty and that there are contenders for their respective positions.

[Blox]

Mortner: Connery is overrated as Bond the same way the Beatles are overrated as the greatest pop band of all time. The suggestion doesn't diminish the greatness of either of them; it just suggests that they are NOT God Almighty and that there are contenders for their respective positions.

...No one has suggested otherwise. The fact that a majority of people may happen to prefer Sean Connery or the Beatles or whomever doesn't somehow elevate the talent being preferred to divinity status as you suggest, or negate your tastes. You're simply at odds with a majority view. Can you handle that? Your views are as valid as anyone elses because they are yours.

[Dr.Carl Mortner]

"The fact that a majority of people may happen to prefer Sean Connery..."

Perhaps among general movie audiences, but if the hardcore Bond fans here at CbN are any indication, Moore has a pretty rabid following that is fast eclipsing Connery's.

[Blox]

Mortner: Perhaps among general movie audiences,

...they're the ones you elected to take issue with at the beginning of this thread --remember? Go back and read your first post.

but if the hardcore Bond fans here at CbN are any indication, Moore has a pretty rabid following that is fast eclipsing Connery's.

...(rolling eyes and chuckling) Well, Hitler and Stalin had rabid followings, and I'm not sure rabidity can be relied upon for good judgment, let alone good taste.

[zencat]

In my travels I'm discovering that the

[Athena007]

There's often an aire of "no one can replace the original" about movie and tv characters. Connery, along with the other Bond's all did a great job at portraying Bond... and portraying specific aspects of Flemming's character. I think all the actors are to be appreciated for the way they played/perceived Bond. Yes, there will be favorites, but I think that "well, he was the original" is a very passive way of choosing a favorite.

[zencat]

I agree. Well said.

[zencat]

I often wonder if the reason we can accept someone other than the "original" is because the actual "original" is the book Bond. I would find it much harder to accept a new actor as Inspector Clouseau, for example, because there's a case where the character IS the actor. Could we accept a new actor as Indy Jones, I wonder?

But Bond, like Sherlock Holmes or Tarzan or Dracula, seems to be easily replaceable. In fact, part of the fun is seeing how different actors interpret the character.

[Dr.Carl Mortner]

"...(rolling eyes and chuckling) Well, Hitler and Stalin had rabid followings, and I'm not sure rabidity can be relied upon for good judgment, let alone good taste."

Speaking of taste, that statement was in pretty poor taste. Liking Roger Moore is hardly the taste equivalent of following a fascist.

[Blox]

Zen person: I also think Connery's hostility toward the Bond world (not going to Cubby's tribute -- not showing up at any of the

[Blox]

Morty: Speaking of taste, that statement was in pretty poor taste. Liking Roger Moore is hardly the taste equivalent of following a fascist.


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...the taste isn't equivalent. The _degree_ of that taste is:

Main Entry: ra

[zencat]

[Blox]

Zencat:

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...Confused, eh. How can I straighten you out?

[zencat]

My confused face was only for your rabid definition post. I think you made an excellent point about Connery's motives for snubbing the Bond family in the post above. Touch

[TonicBH]

I'll bite. I've watched DN, GF and TB. I have all 3 (first two on DVD, third on VHS). I didn't really like them. I somehow can't stomach them. there's some "bad-taste-in-mouth" feeling I get from Connery's Bond films (opposed to most of the other Bond films).

I guess that's what shows how me, a guy who was born when Brosnan WAS gonna be Bond (1986 to be exact) thinks about Connery as Bond.

But getting to the argument as "Connery as a person", I can take or leave.

I am more of a Moore and Dalton fan, and Brosnan's "take-or-leave" to me.

This all basically boils down to the simple rule: "One person might hate GF while one loves it to death, some like Dalton, some like Lazenby. It's all on your tastes."

Oh gee, where did I hear that before...?

[zencat]

At one point we did a poll: Who is your favorite James Bond? At last glance, Roger Moore was just ahead of Connery.

Maybe some of our new members would like to reactivate it? Just click above and vote.

[Turn]

Originally posted by Dr.Carl Mortner
Connery is overrated as Bond the same way the Beatles are overrated as the greatest pop band of all time. The suggestion doesn't diminish the greatness of either of them; it just suggests that they are NOT God Almighty and that there are contenders for their respective positions.

Are you sure you're not confusing overrated with overexposed? The fact that I get Ashton Kutcher, JLo and and Justin Timberlake crammed down my throat everytime I turn on Entertainment Tonight, E TV News or walk by a newspaper or magazine stand makes me want to gag sometimes. USA Today was just going on today about how Ashton Kutcher is the new Cary Grant. That's overexposure. These people have a ways to go before they can be taken at the level of Connery or the Beatles.

Those comparisons are probably a stretch, but there's a reason why Connery and The Beatles have earned their places in the pop culture hall of fame. And why they endure and why you should continue to keep hearing about them.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by TonicBH
I am more of a Moore and Dalton fan, and Brosnan's "take-or-leave" to me.

I'm new to the Bond fan community and this is what I love about this board, and the AJB board as well. You folks constantly amaze me by challenging assumptions and stereotypes. You can't get two more dramatically different Bonds than Moore and Dalton and yet TonicBH prefers them to Brosnan and Connery, either of whom I would automatically assume would be among the favorites of those who like Dalton.

[zencat]

Originally posted by Jaelle
I'm new to the Bond fan community and this is what I love about this board, and the AJB board as well.  You folks constantly amaze me by challenging assumptions and stereotypes...

Thank you, Jaelle. This is why I love this board as well. One thing I've noticed about Bond is how much time changes assumptions. In the 70s (and maybe even the '80s), I would be agreement that Connery was far and away the favorite Bond. But time has marched on, the audience has changed, new fans have grown up with other Bonds, and the assumption is just not true anymore. I'm constantly amazed at how things have changed. I never would have thought TMWTGG would rank among the favorite Bond films. Old fans cling to their core assumptions (and I'm guilty of this), but young fans tell it as they see it and I love this! It all comes down to personal taste, I guess, but generalities based on old assumptions just don't cut it here. CBn (and AJB) reflect fandom at it's most dynamic. It

[Dr.Carl Mortner]

"I never would have thought TMWTGG would rank among the favorite Bond films."

And I would have never thought that I'd ever be able to appreciate AVTAK. Where once it sat firmly at the bottom of my Bond film preferences, it's now worked its way into the middle. I think CbN has influenced this to a large degree.

I bet even two years ago - well before I joined CbN - that if someone were to ask me who my favorite Bond was that I'd say Connery. Why? Because that's what we're SUPPOSED to say, even though in my case I was desperately trying to convince myself that it was true. CbN has got me out of the closet, so to speak, in terms of my Moore fandom.

[Blox]

...the target Bond demographic is 13 and under, so it does not surprise me that many prefer the Moore pictures. The humor in them was geared to younger children. I haven't anything unkind to say about a man with a pacemaker beyond the fact that his style just isn't my cup of tea.

[Blox]

Zencat: I think you made an excellent point about Connery's motives for snubbing the Bond family in the post above. Touch

[BONDFINESSE 007]

well i remember clearly how the connery bonds did not appeal to me at all, when there was a marathon on i would not watch until they started at the point of lald, because i thought connery was overated as bond, and because to me coming up moore was bond, now through the years i have come to like the connery bonds very much but i still think to much is made over the connery films but thats really coming from the old timers like the 50 and 60 year olds

[Blox]

...there is a taste for every product -- from the sublime to the ridiculous. Who am I to quibble with those who prefer the latter?

[Dr.Carl Mortner]

I would be hard-pressed to describe ANY Bond performance as "sublime" Blox. I'd be harder-pressed to single one out as "ridiculous."

[Blox]

Dr.Carl Mortner I would be hard-pressed to describe ANY Bond performance as "sublime" Blox.
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Well I'm sorry to hear that you are encumbered this way. Perhaps I can help. Let's start with "sublime":

Main Entry: 1sub

[Blox]

Dr.Carl Mortner "I'd be harder-pressed to single one out as "ridiculous."

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Its my ardent desire to alleviate suffering. Perhaps I can help here as well.

"Ridiculous"

Main Entry: ri

[Dr.Carl Mortner]

"When actors portraying Fleming's character, or other actors around him cross the line set by Fleming in their presentations of humor, the performance(s) can be said to be ridiculous. ie: Tarzan yelps during chase sequences, juvenile one-liners and sight gags, slide-whistle effects during stunts, goofy sherrifs, Jaws flapping his arms like a bird, etc etc."

What do ANY of those things have to do with the actor? We could say the same thing about two gay henchmen and an effeminate Blofeld and blame it on Connery. To use your analogy, Connery entered the joke that was DAF and never left it.