108 replies to this topic

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by zencat
It's become lore that LTK worked in Europe while it didn't work in the US.>>

Your clipping confirms it's more than just lore:  "Meanwhile, it's doing unusually big business in foreign markets.  What gives?"

<

It's true, the behavior of audiences in different countries can differ dramatically, and you have to park your assumptions at the door when you go to a see a film in a country not your own. I remember seeing a rousing action film in Germany (I forget the title at the moment) and was surprised that the audience was so quiet. Yet it was one of the highest-grossing films in Germany that year.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by zencat
It's become lore that LTK worked in Europe while it didn't work in the US.>>

Your clipping confirms it's more than just lore: "Meanwhile, it's doing unusually big business in foreign markets. What gives?"

Oops, I inadvertently included my reply as part of your post! Sorry about that!

[Loomis]

Originally posted by zencat

It's become lore that LTK worked in Europe while it didn't work in the US. Ironically, I never saw LTK in America, only in Europe. Twice in London, once in Spain. And while the theater was full, I didn't feel like the audience was into the film in the way I've felt audiences connect with Bonds before. But I have discovered it's hard to read audiences outside the US. They are very quiet and respectful, which is not a bad thing, but it makes me nervous to not hear reactions, even loud ones.

UK audiences aren't always quiet and respectful. It depends on the film.

I'll never forget the audience reaction when I saw GOLDENEYE at the Odeon Leicester Square. I think it was the evening after the premiere, maybe a Friday, and it was a packed house.

I'd never been to a screening like it. It was more like being at a rock concert than at the cinema. Everyone went wild when the opening gunbarrel appeared, and you could hear everyone holding their breath as 007 slowly descended the dam wall on the bungee rope. When he shot the grappling hook thing into the entrance to the facility, there was applause like I'd never heard before.

Everyone laughed and clapped when Brosnan first uttered the words "Bond, James Bond", and the Q scene also brought the house down (indeed the dialogue during that entire scene was drowned out by cheering). Afterwards, there was an electric, excited atmosphere among the crowds leaving the cinema, and more than once I heard someone exclaim delightedly: "Makes you proud to be British!"

As a Bond fan, I cannot begin to describe the thrill of that screening. I'd certainly not expected such an audience reaction. What I assumed would be just another Friday night at the pictures ended with the knowledge that Bond was not merely back, but had returned with an absolutely asskicking comeback film that was going to succeed beyond all expectations.

Which brings me back to LTK. I never saw it on the big screen (too young to get in at the time, which meant that for years it carried the allure of forbidden fruit), but the editor of a film magazine I used to write for did (a hardcore Bond fan, he hated LTK, and published a review so scathing that it brought him hate mail and death threats from 007 fanatics).

He told me that the audience he saw LTK with at the Odeon Leicester Square displayed indifference and boredom, and that people emerged muttering things like: "If that's what they think James Bond should be about these days, they might as well not bother."

I saw DIE ANOTHER DAY four times on the big screen in London, and each time the audience rocked the house. The Moneypenny joke, in particular, slayed 'em.

[zencat]

Yeah, what I meant by that post is people equate the box office numbers with a positive audience reaction (the "lore" part is that everyone loved LTK except Americans). Just because a movie makes money, doesn't mean the majority of the audience liked it. Just look at The Matrix Reloaded. LTK had a vastly better international ad campaign compared to the US. I think that explains the difference in performance. The audiences I saw it with in Europe seemed pretty unsatisfied. But maybe that was just me projecting my own disappointment on them. I can't speak for the world.

[zencat]

Originally posted by Loomis
He told me that the audience he saw LTK with at the Odeon Leicester Square displayed indifference and boredom, and that people emerged muttering things like: "If that's what they think James Bond should be about these days, they might as well not bother."

Ah, that helps me make my point. This is what I experienced with LTK the three times I saw it in Europe. The audience didn't like it. Yet, the "lore" is that Europeans liked the movie because it made more money. I just think it was better marketed.

[Jaelle]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Loomis
[B]

I'd never been to a screening like it. It was more like being at a rock concert than at the cinema. Everyone went wild when the opening gunbarrel appeared, and you could hear everyone holding their breath as 007 slowly descended the dam wall on the bungee rope. When he shot the grappling hook thing into the entrance to the facility, there was applause like I'd never heard before.

Everyone laughed and clapped when Brosnan first uttered the words "Bond, James Bond", and the Q scene also brought the house down. Afterwards, there was an electric, excited atmosphere among the crowds leaving the cinema, and more than once I heard someone exclaim delightedly: "Makes you proud to be British.">>

Interesting differences in experiences here. I saw Goldeneye and TND in NYC and on both occasions the theaters were largely deserted and the audiences very quiet. I saw Goldeneye a second time about 3 weeks later and the audience was definitely livelier. I saw TWINE in a big NYC theater and the audience was packed solid but mostly quiet throughout, which surprised me totally. Some laughs here and there. Still, there were long lines for it every time I walked past the theater.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by zencat

the "lore" is that Europeans liked the movie because it made more money. I just think it was better marketed.  

Well, maybe Europeans did like LTK (taking "Europeans" to exclude Brits;)). I don't think Britain really took to it any more than America did. I get the impression that the French liked it a lot, which figures - it seems to exude a strong "this'll go down very well in France" quality (two really gorgeous leading ladies, including the exotic, sultry Ms Soto, a "serious" plot about revenge and honour, and a somewhat "arty" look and feel). Certainly, I had French friends made on a language exchange programme when I was a student who raved about LTK. Not that I can assume that they spoke for all French people, of course, but still....

[zencat]

Has anyone else noticed the extremely high number of views this thread has gotten in just 24 hours? Over 1100 views with just 66 posts (21 of which came from a old thread).

I'm beginning to believe that the #1 reason LTK did so poorly in the US was...drum roll.

Bad marketing.

Everything else falls below this. Marketing needed to prepare the audience for a different kind of Bond experience. Changing the title from Licence Revoked to Licence to Kill was just the first mistep in a fumbled campaign. In the end, LTK was offered up as a generic Bond movie (the final US poster didn't even have a tag line). So the audiences who went and saw it were confused when it was anything but a generic Bond. Heavy competition has NEVER killed a Bond before (TND and TITANIC made almost the same amount of money on the same opening weekend), so why is this always sited as a reson for LTK's failure? LTK would have done fine just against Indy and Star Trek (FYEO did just fine againt Raiders), if it had support.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Loomis


Well, maybe Europeans did like LTK (taking "Europeans" to exclude Brits;)). I don't think Britain really took to it any more than America did. I get the impression that the French liked it a lot, which figures - it seems to exude a strong "this'll go down very well in France" quality (two really gorgeous leading ladies, including the exotic, sultry Ms Soto, a "serious" plot about revenge and honour, and a somewhat "arty" look and feel). Certainly, I had French friends made on a language exchange programme when I was a student who raved about LTK. Not that I can assume that they spoke for all French people, of course, but still....

Had to laugh at the above! Interesting point, because the biggest fan of LTK I've ever met is German whose French boyfriend gave me this long dissertation about what a multi-layered *TEXT* LTK was!! By the end of it my brain felt fried! You may well be right about its attraction to non-US and non-UK audiences. I know that it was very popular in Latin America. My family in Brazil loved it and I kept track of how well it was doing at the time in Brazil, Peru, Colombia and Chile.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by zencat

Has anyone else noticed the extremely high number of views this thread has gotten in just 24 hours?  Over 1100 views with just 66 posts (21 of which came from a old thread).

I hate to say it, but as soon as these LTK posts were made into a new thread, the thread was credited with the 700-odd views that the original MOONRAKER thread had had. I noticed that as soon as you split the posts yesterday, zencat.

[zencat]

Ohhhhhhh...that I didn't know. Thanks, Loomis.

How could I do that to a Moonraker thread?

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by zencat
Has anyone else noticed the extremely high number of views this thread has gotten in just 24 hours?  Over 1100 views with just 66 posts (21 of which came from a old thread).>>

Hmm, I wonder what this means???

<
Bad marketing.

Everything else falls below this. Marketing needed to prepare the audience for a different kind of Bond experience. Changing the title from Licence Revoked to Licence to Kill was just the first mistep in a fumbled campaign. In the end, LTK was offered up as a generic Bond movie (the final US poster didn't even have a tag line). So the audiences who went and saw it were confused when it was anything but a generic Bond.

Well certainly that's what I've always thought. But, really, this is something I find very hard to pin down. There will always be those who argue that your argument just doesn't wash because it was Dalton Dalton Dalton Dalton, Americans didn't like him, etc. And ya know what? They may well be right. It may well be true that if you put Dalton in a film with all the right marketing and a great script at the right time (no lawsuits, no studio chaos), US audiences still wouldn't shine to him. For me, it's just something I can't answer definitively. US audiences have accepted certain TV shows and films that I personally NEVER would've expected them to accept. There are just too many variables to consider.

[zencat]

True. And while I think bad marketing was the #1 problem...I think there were plenty of other problems that were sitting there in the #2,3, and 4 positions ready to sink it. And, yes, I agree Dalton was one of those problems. I'm just not sure which number.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Jaelle

the biggest fan of LTK I've ever met is German whose French boyfriend gave me this long dissertation about what a multi-layered *TEXT* LTK was!!  By the end of it my brain felt fried!  You may well be right about its attraction to non-US and non-UK audiences.  I know that it was very popular in Latin America.  My family in Brazil loved it and I kept track of how well it was doing at the time in Brazil, Peru, Colombia and Chile.  

You know, that really doesn't suprise me, Jaelle.

Okay, this is probably going to come across as hideously pretentious and nonsensical (forgive me, it's late at night), but LTK has, for me, a very European "vibe", such as had not been present in the series since ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE (flashes of it in THUNDERBALL, too, and maybe DR. NO and FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE).

My take on the vibes given off by the Bond flicks:

DR. NO - British, but sometimes European

FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE - British, but sometimes European

GOLDFINGER - American

THUNDERBALL - British, but sometimes European

YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE - no particular vibe; British, if anything

ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE - European

DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER - American

All of the Moore films - British

THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS - British

LICENCE TO KILL - European

There, told ya that would be pretentious and nonsensical!

[zencat]

No, I like that post, Loomis. I agree with you...except I think AVTAK has an American vibe.

What about the Brozzo films? Wait, let me try.

GE - European

TND - American

TWINE - British

DAD - American.

How'd I do?

[Loomis]

Originally posted by zencat

What about the Brozzo films? Wait, let me try.

GE - European

TND - American

TWINE - British

DAD - American.

How'd I do?  

Good grief, I totally forgot about the Brosnan films. Now, that's very telling, isn't it? I guess that posting so much on this particular thread has given me the subconscious impression that the Bond series did indeed end in 1989!

I think your assessments of the Brosnans are pretty much on the money. I'm not sure that AVTAK carries an American vibe, though. But what do I mean by "vibe"? Not just location (obviously), but the whole look and feel of a film, and its pace. If I'd never seen OHMSS and didn't know which country it was from, and was watching it on TV with the sound turned down, I could be very easily persuaded that it was a French or Italian film. OTOH, all of the Moores, to me, seem very no-nonsense and British in style (in other words, they totally lack "arty" qualities). THUNDERBALL looks very cool and sophisticated and chic in a Continental way (and there's all those Italian babes and bad guys), and Terence Young takes it slooowly, like a beret-wearing, Gaulois-smoking European cineaste director. DAF feels big, brash and American. Etc., etc.

[Rohan]

Well, I'm young enough that I never saw a single Bond film in cinemas. I knew what they were, saw most of them, but was never a huge fan of any except for "From Russia with Love". To put things in perspective, I read Le Carre books & got irritated with Clancy stuff because it was too politically biased.

When I saw License to Kill, it blew me away. It was more believable than the others. I remember the bit where M declares "We're not a country-club!" and he jumps the fence and leaves. At that point, I had a huge grin on my face and sat upright in my seat, knowing it was going to rock. And when Q turned up to help out, I cheered loudly, weirding out those other folk in the room with me. The fact that the story was believable was good. Actually, after I heard someone saying that he was like the "book bond" I went and sought out some of the Fleming books, and enjoyed most of them immensely. I'm working through the last couple now, and they're cool.

I love the gritty way Dalton portrayed James Bond. It wasn't a bond movie, the whole save-the-universe-from-a-megalomaniac thing bores me, to be honest. My favourite Bond films are either the 'real' ones or the ones that totally laugh at themselves. Even Goldeneye was pretty real, compared to the last few. I mean, the final lines with the vilain... "For England, James?" "No, for me..." kinda show, again, Bond being a bitter man.

Bring on Dalton!

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Loomis
I think your assessments of the Brosnans are pretty much on the money. I'm not sure that AVTAK carries an American vibe, though. But what do I mean by "vibe"? Not just location (obviously), but the whole look and feel of a film, and its pace. If I'd never seen OHMSS and didn't know which country it was from, and was watching it on TV with the sound turned down, I could be very easily persuaded that it was a French or Italian film. OTOH, all of the Moores, to me, seem very no-nonsense and British in style (in other words, they totally lack "arty" qualities). THUNDERBALL looks very cool and sophisticated and chic in a Continental way (and there's all those Italian babes and bad guys), and Terence Young takes it slooowly, like a beret-wearing, Gaulois-smoking European cineaste director. DAF feels big, brash and American. Etc., etc.

Loomis, this is terrific! I'm fascinated by your list of films and their "feel" by nationality. And zencat's addition of the Brosnan films made me really pause and think more carefully about them. For old hats on the board, maybe this is old stuff but I've never quite thought of the films in this way, but you are SO right! You could write a whole thesis on this. I agree entirely that Moore's films have that no-nonsense British feel. Now I want to go back thru each film and note which ones I prefer and then identify their "vibe" by nationality. Brilliant.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Rohan
Well, I'm young enough that I never saw a single Bond film in cinemas. I knew what they were, saw most of them, but was never a huge fan of any except for "From Russia with Love". To put things in perspective, I read Le Carre books & got irritated with Clancy stuff because it was too politically biased.

When I saw License to Kill, it blew me away. It was more believable than the others. I remember the bit where M declares "We're not a country-club!" and he jumps the fence and leaves. At that point, I had a huge grin on my face and sat upright in my seat, knowing it was going to rock. And when Q turned up to help out, I cheered loudly, weirding out those other folk in the room with me. The fact that the story was believable was good. Actually, after I heard someone saying that he was like the "book bond" I went and sought out some of the Fleming books, and enjoyed most of them immensely. I'm working through the last couple now, and they're cool.

I love the gritty way Dalton portrayed James Bond. It wasn't a bond movie, the whole save-the-universe-from-a-megalomaniac thing bores me, to be honest. My favourite Bond films are either the 'real' ones or the ones that totally laugh at themselves. Even Goldeneye was pretty real, compared to the last few. I mean, the final lines with the vilain... "For England, James?" "No, for me..." kinda show, again, Bond being a bitter man.

Bring on Dalton!

If you don't mind my asking (and I'll understand if you don't want to answer), how old are you? The reason I ask is that I'm always interested when I meet young people (esp. *very* young people) who have no problem accepting the older films. That's for two reasons: first, that's the way I was when I was a kid; and two, my daughter (who's 15) could've written your post above about LTK word for word. Which really surprised me, frankly. Anyway, great post!

[zencat]

Originally posted by Rohan
When I saw License to Kill, it blew me away. It was more believable than the others. I remember the bit where M declares "We're not a country-club!" and he jumps the fence and leaves. At that point, I had a huge grin on my face and sat upright in my seat, knowing it was going to rock. And when Q turned up to help out, I cheered loudly, weirding out those other folk in the room with me. The fact that the story was believable was good. Actually, after I heard someone saying that he was like the "book bond" I went and sought out some of the Fleming books, and enjoyed most of them immensely. I'm working through the last couple now, and they're cool.

Wow, A well written ringing endorsement of LTK. Can't argue with that. Welcome to CBn, Rohan.

[Genrewriter]

Yes, welcome. I saw LTK in the theater as well when I was eleven. For me, LTK has more of an American vibe simply because the film veers more towards the big budget action blowout type of movie than the slick sophistication usually found in a Bond film. That being said, I love the film. It's a tough, gritty, hard-edged thriller that works quite well.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Jaelle

Loomis, this is terrific!  I'm fascinated by your list of films and their "feel" by nationality.  And zencat's addition of the Brosnan films made me really pause and think more carefully about them.  For old hats on the board, maybe this is old stuff but I've never quite thought of the films in this way, but you are SO right!  You could write a whole thesis on this.  I agree entirely that Moore's films have that no-nonsense British feel.  Now I want to go back thru each film and note which ones I prefer and then identify their "vibe" by nationality.  Brilliant.  

Thanks, Jaelle.

So, what else went right with LTK? Lemme see....

- Music. I used to despise Michael Kamen's work for LTK, but now consider it the best non-Barry score of the series. The Spanish/Flamenco-style guitar bits have grown on me, and the version of the James Bond Theme for the gunbarrel opening is really epic and grabs one immediately.

On the DVD commentary, John Glen says that they wanted to hire a composer who would copy John Barry's style very closely, and Kamen succeeds in doing this at various points.

For example, at approximately 27-and-a-half minutes in, as Bond and Sharkey are breaking into Krest's place in the Florida Keys, there's a truly beautiful piece of music that's more Barry than Barry himself. For some reason it makes me think of something he might have written for the opening space hijack in YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE.

- Costumes. Especially Talisa Soto's.

- Talisa Soto.

- Carey Lowell. This is a pretty shallow observation, but: isn't the way she switches to short hair halfway through and looks 10 times more gorgeous just the coolest thing ever?

- Ruthless Bond. My favourite part of the film is probably Bond's job interview with Sanchez, followed by his attempted assassination of the drug lord. Everything is just right: Dalton's opening quip ("Lovely view"), the performances of Dalton and Robert Davi, the way we see (for the only time in the series?) Bond plotting cold-blooded murder and trying to carry it out methodically. 007 preparing his rooftop sniper attack makes for, in my book, the most suspenseful moments in the entire series.

- Ruthless MI6. I like the idea of M sending an agent to kidnap Bond and return him to London, and also that of MI6 men being present at Bond's meeting with M, ready to blow 007 away if he starts any funny business. Makes the movie so much more, y'know, gritty.

- Locations. The following is taken from a fascinating article on LTK on Dalton's official website (http://www.timothyda...m/slicense.html):

"Many of Mexico City's landmarks functioned as locations in the fictional
setting of Isthmus City. The salon of Franz Sanchez's casino headquarters
was shot in the ornate interiors of the Casino Espagnol, which is actually a
social club and restaurant for many Spanish nationals. Other capital sites
used include the Teatro de la Ciudad, the Oficina de Correos (in El Cento),
and the Gran Hotel Ciudad de Mexico, which, with its elaborate ironwork and
stained glass roof, is a leading example of the Art Nouveau style in Mexico.

About 50 miles from Mexico City, at an altitude of nearly 10,000 feet, stands
a remarkable complex of structures known as the Otomi Ceremonial Center.
Built in 1980 as a homage and gathering place for the remnants of the Otomi
Indians, the isolated site served as the fictitious Olimpatec Meditation
Institute, the base of operations for Joe Butcher (Wayne Newton), a
fraudulent yet charismatic television fundraiser employed by the ruthless
drug lord Sanchez. Its exceptional design, which consists of massive plazas
dominated by cone-shaped structures, monumental stairways and waterfalls and
gigantic mosaics and sculptures, provided a perfect locale for one of the
film's most spectacular sequences.

The production then moved on to Acapulco, one of the most famous playgrounds
of the Western World. A fabulous beach residence (owned by an Italian
nobleman and his wife) near the Las Brisas resort is seen in the film as the
seaside mansion of the villainous Sanchez."

IMO, Sanchez's residence is the single most beautiful and (for want of a better word) "Bondian" real location ever used in a Bond film.

[zencat]

Originally posted by Loomis
- Carey Lowell. This is a pretty shallow observation, but: isn't the way she switches to short hair halfway through and looks 10 times more gorgeous just the coolest thing ever?

Yes.

Originally posted by Loomis
Ruthless MI6. I like the idea of M sending an agent to kidnap Bond and return him to London, and also that of MI6 men being present at Bond's meeting with M, ready to blow 007 away if he starts any funny business. Makes the movie so much more, y'know, gritty.

Agreed. I loved this.

[Loomis]

Not sure if the following is kosher to post here, but I hope it is, since it's pretty interesting. It's from the Dalton site I provided a link to in my above post.

"The following are excerpts from the early story conceptualization that was
reworked and rewritten into the film as it is known today. It is interesting
to compare the writer's early thoughts on how the script would look with what
was finally decided upon by all those involved. (Note that the spellings in
this treatment are American English, rather than English English, which the
final scripts always utilize.)

BOND XVI
REVISED TREATMENT
by Richard Maibaum and Michael G. Wilson
March 4, 1998

Page 2; Pre-title action; the basic scenes of Leiter and Bond being driven
to Leiter's wedding is outlined, followed by:

"Sanchez and his men enter a low bungalow not far from the airstrip. A tough
Columbian starts to get out of his chair. He is pushed roughly back by
Perez. Sanchez says only one word. "Velasquez?" The man nods toward the
rear doorway. Sanchez pushes the door open. Velasquez is nude in hot tub
with two girls. His surprise turns to a smile as he recognizes Sanchez.
"Hey! Amigo! What's happening?" he says. Sanchez eyes the girls coolly.
"Leave us." They grab towels and scamper off. "I'm honored, but it's
risky," Velasquez tells him. Braun, and Perez walk around Velasquez. "Risky
for you!" Sanchez tells him. He pulls a packet of hundred dollar bills out
of his jacket and throws them into the hot tub. They scatter on the surface.
"I sell real dope. I want real money." Velasquez looks at the money as the
ink runs in the water. "I didn't know. It won't happen again," he pleads.
"You're right!" Sanchez tells him. Braun and Perez lift the heavy wooden
insulation cover for the hot tub and drop it on Velasquez. They stand on top
of it forcing him underwater. His muffled cries gradually die out.

Bond's Coast Guard helicopter approaches the airstrip. Below they see
Sanchez and his two henchmen heading for his jet. Leiter points below to a
spot on the ground cutting off their escape. "Put us down there." Hawkins
hands Leiter an M-16 and takes one for himself. They jump off the helicopter
as it touches down and are met by a hail of gun fire from Sanchez' men. The
helicopter pilot lifts off with Bond. While Perez and Braun give cover fire,
Sanchez runs to Velasquez' single engine light plane parked at the edge of
the runway. Bond sees him jump aboard. He tells the pilot to pick up Leiter
and Hawkins. While he does so Sanchez taxis out onto the runway and starts
to take off. Now back in the plane Leiter curses his luck. "We almost got
the bastard!" "He's not away yet," Bond tells him. He asks the pilot to get
up right behind Sanchez' plane which is just airborne.

While the helicopter maneuvers into position, Bond had Leiter lower him down
on the cable of the copter's winch. Bond hovers above the tail of the
escaping plane. Leiter, watching him, directs the pilot into position. Bond
grabs onto the tail of the plane and manages to attach the cable to it. He
gives Leiter the "thumbs up". The helicopter pilot gives it full power and
pulls back on the controls. Inside the plane, Sanchez realizes he's losing
power. He increases throttle, but to no avail. The plane's nose drops
toward the ground as it loses air speed. Finally it hangs nose down on the
end of the helicopter's cable. Bond sits triumphantly on the tail plane.

At the church the guests murmur uneasily while Della waits in the vestry with
the minister.

Coast Guard Base, Key West. The helicopter, carrying the plane, sets it
gently down in the center of the parade ground. Fully armed guards surround
the cockpit. Bond waits by the tail of the plane as Leiter jumps out of the
helicopter followed by Hawkins and rushes to cockpit of the plane. He greets
Sanchez as he opens hatch with a warrant for his arrest. "Welcome to the
U.S., Colonel Crack." Then he gets into the helicopter with Bond and heads
for his wedding."

Page 14; Bond has resigned by sending a telex "Urgent to Universal Exports,
London," which was written in "gobbledygook," as he explains to the pretty
girl operator, who asks him, "What are you? Some kind of secret agent?" to
which he replies, "Just terminating a contract. Don't want the competition
to get wind of it." He is currently in his hotel room.

"As Bond hangs up (the phone), there is a knock on the door. Bond gets his
PPK and cautiously admits M who has flown in from London. He gets to the
point. "What's this about resigning, Double-O-Seven?" "A personal matter,
sir." "There's nothing personal in our business. Has it something to do
with Leiter?" Bond remains silent, not trusting himself to discuss it.
"What happened to him was a risk in the line of duty." "And his wife?" M
sits down wearily. "Let the Americans take care of it. You should never
have become involved. We can't have MI6 mixed up in this. I'll keep your
telex in my pocket. Your license to kill is revoked. You will have no
contact with Her Majesty's government. In three months if you're clean I'll
tear up your resignation. Otherwise, I'll sack you." "Thank you, sir." M
gets up and goes to the door. He seems on the verge of softening. Instead
he growls, "Take care, James" and leaves."

Page 25; Bond and Pam have just escaped from the barroom brawl and have
sped away in the cigarette boat he bought.

"After a moment she says her clothes are soaked. He points to steps leading
to the fore cabin. "Try in there." While she is gone he consults charts.
The engines start to miss. Then they stop. Pam comes back in a terry cloth
robe too large for her. "What's the problem?" He grins. "We're out of
gas." "I haven't heard that one since high school." "Did it work then?" He
looks toward shore. "It should take a couple of hours to drift in." She
eyes him with amused skepticism, "What do we do in the meantime?" Bond
stretches on a mat. "I suggest a nap". She sits next to him. "I had you
pegged all wrong. When you came in I thought you were just a chauvinistic
English wimp about to get his *** kicked." "What do you think now?" "You
didn't get your *** kicked. I'm keeping an open mind about the rest." She
leans over him. They kiss. He starts to roll her over. "Careful, I have a
bruised back, remember?" She sits up, reverses their positions. "I see I
have to teach you some new tricks." "Surprise me." They laugh, kiss again.
The night sky above them blazes with stars."

Page 56; Bond and Pam have infiltrated Joe Butcher's mission, which, in
reality, is a front for Sanchez's cocaine operation. Bond has been recognized
, captured and turned over to Sanchez's henchman, Dario, for elimination:

"In the counting room Dario puts Bond on the conveyer belt leading to the
shredder. He turns it on. The belt starts to move slowly taking Bond toward
the whirling metal knives. Several feet away Bond spots a stainless steel
bucket beside the belt. He has enough play in his straps to swing his legs
and jam both feet into the bucket. Then he swings his legs back onto the
belt the instant before his foot reaches the knives of the shredder. The
knives shatter as they hit the bucket. Bond falls through the shredder
miraculously unscathed. Perez runs toward Bond who swings up his bucket
encased feet catching him under the chin. The henchman falls, out for the
count. Bond squirms out of the straps binding his arms and pulls himself up
the side of the shredder while trying to kick his feet free of the bucket.
Dario grabs at him, but Bond manages to shield himself with the bucket,
keeping him at bay. Dario climbs up and grapples with Bond, and flings him
on the moving belt of the shredder. He hits Bond with an iron bar, stunning
him. As he starts to choke him the door to the mail room opens suddenly. It
is Pam in the choir gown lit by the light from the room behind giving her an
ethereal appearance. Dario is transfixed. "You're dead," he exclaims
hoarsely. "You took the words right out of my mouth", she says and shoots
him. He falls over the railing into the shredder. Bond pulls his feet free
from the bucket."

[Loomis]

Page 64: Bond and Sanchez have fought each other by jumping around on the
tankers, on which they still struggle.

"Sanchez is fighting hand to hand with Bond (on a runaway tanker). Tanker
hits parked car and "jackknifes". It rolls onto its side throwing Bond
clear. Bond is dazed. Sanchez limps over to him. He raises the machete to
decapitate him. Bond suddenly rolls away, then eludes Sanchez long enough to
light the flare he took from the emergency box. He thrusts burning flare
into Sanchez's face. Sanchez' clothes, drenched in gasoline, ignite, turning
him into a human torch. He staggers blindly stepping into a stream of
gasoline leaking from the overturned tanker setting it alight. The flame
runs along the stream toward the tanker. Bond tries to crawl away. The
tanker explodes in a fireball, knocking Bond flat. Pam lands her plane on
the road. She rushes to him, pulls him away from the flames. As she kneels,
beside him, the tears in her eyes tells us how much she cares for him. Bond
looks up at her and smiles.

Mexican fiesta Acapulco. Pam and Q are at table in patio. She wears her
leather vest. She sees Bond approach, one arm in a sling, talking to Lupe.
Only their heads are visible above the crowds. Pam is miffed. As crowd
thins we see Lupe is pushing Leiter in a wheel chair. They arrive at the
table. It sees Lupe has found her true vocation taking care of Leiter. Q
tells Bond M wants him to return at once for re-assignment. Pam says, "You
need R and R first. Why don't you buy a yacht for a three month sail on the
Caribbean with me." Bond asks her what they will use for money. She opens
one of the padded sections of her vest. It is stuffed with packets of
hundred dollar bills. "You didn't think I was going to let you put all that
cash in the decompression chamber, did you? I'm a practical woman." Bond
says he won't be much use to her with one arm. "For what I have in mind, you
won't need your hands," she tells him.""

[bebopfoot]

I must say, that is quite interesting. I prefer the final film for making Bond violently and forcefully leave MI6, but the idea of Lupe taking care of Felix is an interesting one, and I think would have wrapped it up more neatly than her and the president. Nevertheless, I can understand there doing it the way they did.

[Loomis]

I think this might have been a very amusing scene:

Page 14; Bond has resigned by sending a telex "Urgent to Universal Exports,
London," which was written in "gobbledygook," as he explains to the pretty
girl operator, who asks him, "What are you?  Some kind of secret agent?" to
which he replies, "Just terminating a contract.  Don't want the competition
to get wind of it."  

Curious that Bond's break with Her Majesty's Secret Service is much less acrimonious and dramatic than in the finished film. M comes to Bond, not the other way round, and basically gives 007 a vacation and tacit permission to go off and do his own thing for three months (!). Shades of ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE (the film, not the book), no?

Also, Lupe is absent from the pre-credits sequence. At the end of the film, it is implied that her future is with Leiter, as his nurse (and maybe something more).

The love scene between Bond and Pam on the boat, following the fight at the bar, seems better-written than it plays in the finished version.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Loomis
So, what else went right with LTK? Lemme see....

- Music. I used to despise Michael Kamen's work for LTK, but now consider it the best non-Barry score of the series. The Spanish/Flamenco-style guitar bits have grown on me, and the version of the James Bond Theme for the gunbarrel opening is really epic and grabs one immediately.

And I thought I was alone in this. I always thought Gladys Knight's song was incredibly bland and forgettable, and it's usually not the type of music I care for. Now I absolutely love it and the final song as well. Something about the way the opening song opens up, the way it rises slowly at the start somehow grabs me emotionally. I find it exciting. I haven't warmed up to Kamen's score as much as you have but I definitely *like* it much more than I used to. I never thought I'd spend money actually purchasing the CD, and now I have.

For example, at approximately 27-and-a-half minutes in, as Bond and Sharkey are breaking into Krest's place in the Florida Keys, there's a truly beautiful piece of music that's more Barry than Barry himself. For some reason it makes me think of something he might have written for the opening space hijack in YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE.

Agreed. It sort of surprises me every time I hear it now, because I'm so used to just ignoring LTK's music.

- Costumes. Especially Talisa Soto's.
- Talisa Soto.

I certainly understand your response here. MY counterpart to this would be that scene where Tim is shirtless in Sanchez's mansion!!! You wouldn't want to see me when I watch this scene. It ain't pretty. Put my daughter and her friend there with me in the same room, and it's a circus.

- Carey Lowell. This is a pretty shallow observation, but: isn't the way she switches to short hair halfway through and looks 10 times more gorgeous just the coolest thing ever?

Shallow, shmallow, it's a fantastic transformation! I hate her hair when we first see her in Felix's office. Yuck! I just read an article in an old Bondage magazine where Carey Lowell says how much she loved her hair change in the film. She looks positively stunning when she comes into the bank office. I love Bond's reaction.

- Ruthless Bond. My favourite part of the film is probably Bond's job interview with Sanchez, followed by his attempted assassination of the drug lord. Everything is just right: Dalton's opening quip ("Lovely view"), the performances of Dalton and Robert Davi, the way we see (for the only time in the series?) Bond plotting cold-blooded murder and trying to carry it out methodically. 007 preparing his rooftop sniper attack makes for, in my book, the most suspenseful moments in the entire series.

Yes! On the TLD dvd documentary, John Glen mentions how good Tim is with props, he practices a lot beforehand, he looks like he knows exactly what he's doing and like he's done it many times before. The entire sequence where he begins to prepare to kill Sanchez, from the rapelling to the moment on the window ledge with the plastic explosive to the point at which he finally shoots is an example of this. I It is very suspenseful as you say.

- Ruthless MI6. I like the idea of M sending an agent to kidnap Bond and return him to London, and also that of MI6 men being present at Bond's meeting with M, ready to blow 007 away if he starts any funny business. Makes the movie so much more, y'know, gritty.

I loved this too, especially when Bond tells the agent to piss off. Tim's Bond really has *such* an attitude toward his employers that I love. And the actor they chose to play the agent is so good at playing a mean, nasty, tough guy.

- Locations. The following is taken from a fascinating article on LTK on Dalton's official website (http://www.timothyda...m/slicense.html):

Yes, I'd read this on his webpage. Fascinating stuff. On another website (I can't find it right now) there's also mention of a scene I so wish they'd kept in the film. It shows Felix in his hospital room overhearing Bond make some nasty quip about having killed Sanchez, or about his planning to do so, and Felix quietly whispers to himself "Thank you, James, thank you." Or something like that. I'll keep searching for the site where I saw this. The film *desperately* needed something like this.

And I agree entirely with you about the location of Sanchez's mansion. It's a stunning place. Every time I watch LTK I look forward to seeing it and try to see if I can catch something I hadn't noticed before. I happen to love Mexico. I know Mexico City is a tough place for people physically because it *is* so polluted (poor Cubby!). And it's true that birds fly over the city and sometimes just drop dead because of it. I love the city but whenever I've visited I always plan a very short stay because it really does wear on you. But it's got one of the finest museums in the world and so much more going for it. I love the combination of elegance and tacky decorations in Sanchez's place (the camel, the fish---hysterical!). I also love that mountaintop sanctuary they found----looks so lavish and very Bondian.

Stuff I don't like? Well I'm not crazy about Wayne Newton. I grew up listening to the guy's awful music. I concede he's a good choice for the type of role he was cast in but I just wish he had less screen time.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Loomis
The love scene between Bond and Pam on the boat, following the fight at the bar, seems better-written than it plays in the finished version.

Definitely. The love scene on the boat is ok, but disappointing.

[Simon]

When I first saw the film in the Lowes theatre, NY, I had to see it twice, back to back, I couldn't believe how disappointed I was by the whole experience. Unbondian, dull, serious and totally devoid of style.

The audience was silent as are, in my experience, most British audiences, save for the obvious jokes etc.

Since then, it's toughness has fallen in line with the toughness exhibited in Brosnan's movies and I find it is a movie I watch more often than some of the "at the time" better received movies. Perhaps LTK was a little ahead of its time.

I am reminded of the review in the 007 magazine which basically said the marketing was a washout, Dalton was too serious and forced - his TLD performance was much more relaxed and assured - his hairstyle should have ensured the stylist was shot, and that tellingly, this film was one film too early for Dalton's tenure. To go into something of this ilk required an audience acceptance of him that, only one film in, was yet to be established. I agree with this.

Aside from this, zencat's list of 10 right and wrongs were all noted and agreed with - I see the bald chap with the bottle every time too - why didn't they shoot him along with the stylist?

And would Talisa (ahh) really fall for some el Presidente who was so spectacularly ugly?