317 replies to this topic

[tdalton]

It doesn't seem like Mendes would have the option to speak about the hack or show concern about it.  Sony's official line right now has been to maintain silence until the FBI is done with their investigation.  Mendes speaking up on that front would be going against what Sony has decided to do in light of the FBI investigation.

[seawolfnyy]

Okay, honestly this is probably going to be my last post in this thread....especially if people keep ignoring my advice. YOU ARE ALL OVER-BLEEPING-REACTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We know for a fact that these leaked emails reference a draft (or drafts) from early in production. Everyone needs to let go of this feeling and let the story play out. Several people have referenced how Skyfall sounded awful on paper and yet, in execution, it was not only excellent, but ended up (at one point) as the seventh highest-grossing film in history. So, and again for the last time, everyone needs to CALM THE (BLEEP) DOWN. Wait until we see something substantial about the film and not just 4 leaked emails with terrible grammar.

[Harmsway]

Let's also not underestimate the power of casting. SPECTRE has an incredible ensemble.

[tdalton]

There's also the fact that all of this panic is based off of emails being sent back and forth between Sony and MGM/EON executives, rather than being based on any kind of information from the script itself.  If all of this hysteria was based on someone having actually gotten a look at the script and then deciding that it was terrible, that might be one thing, but that doesn't seem to be the case based on what those who have seen the information have said.

[seawolfnyy]

There's also the fact that all of this panic is based off of emails being sent back and forth between Sony and MGM/EON executives, rather than being based on any kind of information from the script itself.  If all of this hysteria was based on someone having actually gotten a look at the script and then deciding that it was terrible, that might be one thing, but that doesn't seem to be the case based on what those who have seen the information have said.

Exactly. Thank you.

[Harmsway]

Yeah, it's all in broad strokes. So we have some ideas about what the arc of this film is, and how it will relate to the preceding three Craig films, but not a sense for how it actually plays.

 

That said, how SPECTRE appears to be rewriting the significance of the preceding three Bond films will be controversial even if everything else is firing on all cylinders. Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace, and Skyfall won't feel the same after SPECTRE comes out. Some will be okay with that, but some of us are gonna complain. That's ultimately what has everyone in this thread freaking out. SPECTRE sets itself up as the make-it-or-break-it moment of the Craig era, in part because it hangs the entirety of the Craig era on a fairly risky (albeit very bold) conceit.

[tdalton]

It won't be the first time that filmmakers have retconned previous films into meaning something different than they did at the time and it most likely won't be the last time it happens either.  

 

That said, if SPECTRE turns out to be terrible or completely ruins the previous films, then it won't be the end of the world.  It's just as easy to discard it and pretend it doesn't exist.  Both Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace are very, very good entries in the Bond franchise on their own merits, so if SPECTRE ends up damaging that notion, then it won't take much effort to simply view those films on their own merits and divorce them from the events of SPECTRE.  On the other hand, if SPECTRE does a great job of integrating those events into its overall narrative, then that can only stand to potentially make Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace stronger than they already were.

[x007AceOfSpades]

Yeah, it's all in broad strokes. So we have some ideas about what the arc of this film is, and how it will relate to the preceding three Craig films, but not a sense for how it actually plays.

 

That said, how SPECTRE appears to be rewriting the significance of the preceding three Bond films will be controversial even if everything else is firing on all cylinders. Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace, and Skyfall won't feel the same after SPECTRE comes out. Some will be okay with that, but some of us are gonna complain. That's ultimately what has everyone in this thread freaking out. SPECTRE sets itself up as the make-it-or-break-it moment of the Craig era, in part because it hangs the entirety of the Craig era on a fairly risky (albeit very bold) conceit.

Agreed. I'm already feeling slightly different about Skyfall, which I loved because it wasn't directly related to CR and QOS.

[S K Y F A L L]

Let's also not underestimate the power of casting. SPECTRE has an incredible ensemble.

 

See OCEANS 11, 12 &13. LOL

[willdj]

if this is true - its about as stupid as this 

https://www.youtube....h?v=rbCFYceDGkM

[Vauxhall]

It won't be the first time that filmmakers have retconned previous films into meaning something different than they did at the time and it most likely won't be the last time it happens either.  
 
That said, if SPECTRE turns out to be terrible or completely ruins the previous films, then it won't be the end of the world.  It's just as easy to discard it and pretend it doesn't exist.  Both Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace are very, very good entries in the Bond franchise on their own merits, so if SPECTRE ends up damaging that notion, then it won't take much effort to simply view those films on their own merits and divorce them from the events of SPECTRE.  On the other hand, if SPECTRE does a great job of integrating those events into its overall narrative, then that can only stand to potentially make Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace stronger than they already were.

Well said, and I'd say the same for SKYFALL, although I know everyone has very different opinions of the Craig era as a whole.

[willdj]

It completely cheapens Skyfall and robs any weight the story had if its true

[SecretAgentFan]

 

At the end of Skyfall, when M asks if Bond's ready to get back into work, he replies "with pleasure." That reply tells the audience Bond is up for the fight. He's eager.

Spoiler

If the ending in the draft eventuates, Bond's spirit is set to be whittled away. Or he simply is leaving with what he has left, as originally stated in Casino Royale. Or perhaps, this proposed ending, while in the original draft, now isn't planned for SPECTRE at all, and could be saved for Craig's last?

 

Who knows.

Agreed

 

It would be a most stupid ending without any meaning - since we know that this would be reversed in the following film.

[nicage]

Okay, so after looking at some of them, I don't really believe any of it. The emails are written too poorly and the whole thing just doesn't make any sense. I mean this bizarro story makes Die Another Day look like a masterpiece. Do you really think Mendes would agree to direct this piece of garbage? I would tell everyone, not to worry.

This is my favorite post of the day.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

One thing's for sure; SPECTRE is going to polarize viewers. I'd much rather that than for it to try to appeal to everyone and captivate no one.

[willdj]

Its going to be an interesting film and probably a good (maybe great) movie, I just think its wrong for the characters - and "Blofeld's" motivation is high school intellectualism at best - They could easily have this story without the stupid past stuff, they can be nemesis because Bond stopped his plans  - that part of the film has obviously stuck to a degree because the reference is still there

[Royal Dalton]

Its going to be an interesting film and probably a good (maybe great) movie, I just think its wrong for the characters - and "Blofeld's" motivation is high school intellectualism at best - They could easily have this story without the stupid past stuff, they can be nemesis because Bond stopped his plans  - that part of the film has obviously stuck to a degree because the reference is still there

Exactly.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

I can buy the coincidences, but the motive, if it has survived, is so far fetched not to mention moronic. Not even the "casual fans" - not to mention us, the diehards - would buy it.  

But I'm starting to get my head around the leaks, and my doom-and-gloom feelings have mellowed a lot. I have faith in Mendes, Craig & co.  

Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 12 December 2014 - 10:56 AM.

[thecasinoroyale]

After 'Skyfall', and all the rumour and worry around that, I too have faith in the Mendes and the Craig. They know what they're doing after all, and I doubt Craig will be reckless to participate in anything that spoils or severely alters the Bond formula to the point of isolating fans.

[Hansen]

I finally got an eye on the leaks.
If I can buy the ending even if it is absolutely not original and not credible on the long term, I just despise the vilain's motivations.
It is extremely stupid and narrows the Bond universe.
This is again a copy & paste of Nolan's Batman

 

They are truly ruining Bond.

It is a masterpiece, should Mendes be Blofeld... Congrats, you nailed Bond

[seawolfnyy]

 

Let's also not underestimate the power of casting. SPECTRE has an incredible ensemble.

 

See OCEANS 11, 12 &13. LOL

 

The Ocean's films had some of the greatest casts of all-time. In fact, they saved what was really a poor film in Ocean's 12 and made it somewhat bearable.

 

 

Okay, so after looking at some of them, I don't really believe any of it. The emails are written too poorly and the whole thing just doesn't make any sense. I mean this bizarro story makes Die Another Day look like a masterpiece. Do you really think Mendes would agree to direct this piece of garbage? I would tell everyone, not to worry.

This is my favorite post of the day.

 

Thank you.

[univex]

Am I the only one who doesn´t find the content of the leaks that absurd? I´m quite intrigued by it and I find it a good thing. People are talking about DAD. DUD doesn't have any originality in its premisse. Bond gets taken and tortured. Fine, it´s not that farfetched. It was  the execution that was crap.This premisse - SPECTRE´s - maybe the best thing ever if done right with the right cast and director - which we have. About the ending...What? Hasn´t Bond think of that in the novels? Hasn´t he considered it many many times? Or am I reading the wrong stuff (only found 3). And let´s not forget, these texts - if we can called them that - aren´t even written by the production, crew or cast. About the villain´s motivation: people do that sort of thing every freakin day.

Spoiler

We all spend the most of our adult lives trying to fix our childhood, consciously or not, but without the means of a super villain or the psychological construction of a sociopath.

. My take on it, anyways. Cheers.

[Tiin007]

The ending, in theory, could have worked at some point down the road, but not now, when a variation of it happened already in each of the past three movies (CR, QoS, and SF).

 

And the villain's motivation, if true, is pathetic. Basically a slap in the face to everything Bond is about.

[Harmsway]

Let's also not underestimate the power of casting. SPECTRE has an incredible ensemble.

See OCEANS 11, 12 &13. LOL

I like all three, so...

[Vauxhall]

Let's also not underestimate the power of casting. SPECTRE has an incredible ensemble.

See OCEANS 11, 12 &13. LOL

I like all three, so...

Me too. My favourite film trilogy. Never fail to force a smile.

[Harmsway]

The ending, in theory, could have worked at some point down the road, but not now, when a variation of it happened already in each of the past three movies (CR, QoS, and SF).

If they're using it as *the* ending of the Craig era, then I buy it. If they undermine it in BOND 25, I'll be less pleased.

And the villain's motivation, if true, is pathetic. Basically a slap in the face to everything Bond is about.

It's outrageous--feels like the influence of Nolan's Batman films rearing its head once again--but I can just about see Waltz selling it.

[Hockey Mask]

Big fan of the Ocean's movies myself.  A bit disappointed in Ocean's 12 but thought Ocean's 13 made 12 a better movie.  Sometimes a new movie in a series can make previous movies better. hmmmmm

[univex]

Ok, just decided, this has the potential to be a very very interesting entry in the series. 

Spoiler

Mendes will, without a doubt, make it work like a shakesperian play, very much like Hamlet, I´d say. And that´s good in my book. Better than reinventing DAF again and trowing in everything but the kitchen sink to hide the ugly truth that is they´ve run out of fresh ideas. This is fresh, this is something that maybe even Fleming could have conjured up. Is it more ridiculous than world domination? Apocalyptic desires? I say no it isn´t. IF done right. And it probably will. I´m still more worried of cgi and nonsense action scenes than this.

[R. Dittmar]

... If all of this hysteria was based on someone having actually gotten a look at the script and then deciding that it was terrible, that might be one thing, but that doesn't seem to be the case based on what those who have seen the information have said.

 

While the e-mail I read is far more encouraging about the twists than many of us are, it actually is kind of critical of the things that some of us are railing against here.  It does say that if they decide to go with the twist about SPECTRE's motivation that it could make the villain look very small and petty.  They encourage the screenwriters to punch things up a lot more to sell it.  Whoever wrote it also complains that they're not selling the twist about Bond at the very end very well either.

 

The fact that the e-mail is somewhat critical about the elements many of us are already finding ridiculous actually kind of sells it as genuine.  If it were the work of prankster fan-boys it would probably be more wildly enthusiastic.  "I LOVE the windsurfing! And when Jinx yells "Yo' mamma"? I LOVE IT!!"

[Harmsway]

I'm sure the critical comments were addressed in rewrites. I'm sure the scope of the villain's ambitions have since increased.