77 replies to this topic

[Odd Jobbies]

Interesting and important insight. Would be interesting to know Logan's reaction to being told to re-adapt or condense his original plot, but then again, I suppose Mendes has fair greater sway.

 

Indeed - It's a Director's medium.

 

Hopefully the original 2-movie script(s) were just outlines, or poor Logan would've probably walked faced with virtually starting again.

[Shrublands]

It seems that Logan pitched this idea whilst making Skyfall and everyone went for it. Purvis and Wade were under the impression that Logan had come up with it with the input of Mendes. Now they might have been wrong about that, but I'd say they were in a position to know the working of this.

 

I suspect that this was a big idea and it was the studio that immediately thought "This could/should be two films". Mendes was unhappy about that development but Logan was contracted to write them. That was all sorted out last May or June and Mendes got his way, almost a year ago now, and I suspect for the better. 

 

So, I'd say that Logan and Mendes are on the same page when it comes to Bond 24's script and have been all along. 

[Odd Jobbies]

It's for the best if the new script is a totally new idea...

 

If the 2-film script was deemed too big an idea for one movie, then it's always going to involve compromises to squeeze that big idea into one movie. Sure, an aspect or plot point or two may work out better, but they'll probably be 10 sacrifices for every 1 gain.

 

So i for one hope that once they'd decided to go with Mendes and his one film demand they started from scratch and put that big 2-film idea on the back burner, perhaps until 25/26 when they can get someone like Chris Nolan, Peter Jackson, or George Miller who relish big multi-film arcs.

 

My guess is it involves the Blofeld trilogy and i'd hate to see that condensed down to meet the whims of the director. We've already had a botched run at Fleming's masterpieces and i hope we don't get another half-arsed attempt.

 

I guess there's always the possibility that they're still filming the same story - the big idea that Logan had - but one at a time, with a 'theatre break' for Mendes, or another director taking the reigns for the 2nd part..

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 29 April 2014 - 11:16 AM.

[Shrublands]

Not if it was a one film idea by the director and writer (who devised it together) that was only going to be two because that's what the studio wanted.

If it has reverted to being what it was originally going to be, then that's a good thing, in my opinion. 

[Odd Jobbies]

Absolutely. Lets hope that was the case.

[Shrublands]

My main bit of evidence for believing this is this quote from Neal Purvis and Robert Wade from November 2012.

 

I know that John Logan and Sam Mendes have come up with a plot for another one

 

 

http://collider.com/...e-leaving-bond/

 

Now we learn from Mendes himself that he had to insist that it be just the one film and that this is something he felt very strongly about.

[Ace Roberts]

I'm as guilty as the next person, trying to dissect a conversation layer by layer looking for significance, but I found it amusing that Mendes mentions the Aston Martin reveal in Skyfall with such reverence. I've read similar interviews over the years with other directors sitting in audiences to gauge reactions to a particular scene. Spielberg once spoke of sitting in a theatre just to see the audience's reaction to the head popping up in the sunken ship's porthole in Jaws. He said once he saw that reaction, he knew he had them where he wanted. So I'm intrigued in what possible "reveal" Bond 24 might have in store for us. Like others, I can only hope for Blofeld. 

[Odd Jobbies]

I've read similar interviews over the years with other directors sitting in audiences to gauge reactions to a particular scene....

You definitely see the film for the first time when you see it with people that are fresh to it. Parts you thought OK you find yourself embarrassed by and other moments you hadn't given much attention too can jump off the screen. I don't just mean the way the audience around you reacts - it's actually like seeing it the first time for yourself.

 

Goes to show how much self deception and tunnel vision can easily creep into the creative process.

 

Filmmakers who don't feel they need do this are either far cleverer than me, or just fooling themselves.

[RMc2]

Not if it was a one film idea by the director and writer (who devised it together) that was only going to be two because that's what the studio wanted.

If it has reverted to being what it was originally going to be, then that's a good thing, in my opinion. 

 

Yeah, that old Purvis and Wade quote made it sound very much like Logan and Mendes had an idea for Bond 24 - it's likely EON decided it should be a two film arc. It would now seem certain that, at some point early last year, they toyed with the idea of making two films back-to-back too. Looks like Craig and Mendes have put paid to that, and Logan's recent script announcements are the result of that.

 

Of course, Bond 24 could still have an open ending without feeling unfinished, similar to CR or FRWL/TB.

Edited by RMc, 29 April 2014 - 02:13 PM.

[Shrublands]

 

Not if it was a one film idea by the director and writer (who devised it together) that was only going to be two because that's what the studio wanted.

If it has reverted to being what it was originally going to be, then that's a good thing, in my opinion. 

 

Yeah, that old Purvis and Wade quote made it sound very much like Logan and Mendes had an idea for Bond 24 - it's likely EON decided it should be a two film arc. It would now seem certain that, at some point early last year, they toyed with the idea of making two films back-to-back too. Looks like Craig and Mendes have put paid to that, and Logan's recent script announcements are the result of that.

 

Of course, Bond 24 could still have an open ending without feeling unfinished, similar to CR or FRWL/TB.

 

 

I don't think it was Eon who pushed for the two film arc, but MGM. 

In view of recent information, I now read much more into this exchange with Barbara Broccoli. (also from November 2012)

 

I think Eon were with Mendes on this one.

 

Congratulations on signing John Logan for two more scripts.

 

Barbara Broccoli: Well, we are working on another film in the future but we actually haven’t announced that we’re going to do two. We don’t know what we’re going to be doing.
 

Oh, so what was the news that he had a two-story arc?

 

Barbara Broccoli: That was a Hollywood announcement, not from us if you notice.

 

 

http://www.craveonli...lson-on-skyfall

[RMc2]

 

 

Not if it was a one film idea by the director and writer (who devised it together) that was only going to be two because that's what the studio wanted.

If it has reverted to being what it was originally going to be, then that's a good thing, in my opinion. 

 

Yeah, that old Purvis and Wade quote made it sound very much like Logan and Mendes had an idea for Bond 24 - it's likely EON decided it should be a two film arc. It would now seem certain that, at some point early last year, they toyed with the idea of making two films back-to-back too. Looks like Craig and Mendes have put paid to that, and Logan's recent script announcements are the result of that.

 

Of course, Bond 24 could still have an open ending without feeling unfinished, similar to CR or FRWL/TB.

 

 

I don't think it was Eon who pushed for the two film arc, but MGM. 

In view of recent information, I now read much more into this exchange with Barbara Broccoli. (also from November 2012)

 

I think Eon were with Mendes on this one.

 

Congratulations on signing John Logan for two more scripts.

 

Barbara Broccoli: Well, we are working on another film in the future but we actually haven’t announced that we’re going to do two. We don’t know what we’re going to be doing.
 

Oh, so what was the news that he had a two-story arc?

 

Barbara Broccoli: That was a Hollywood announcement, not from us if you notice.

 

 

http://www.craveonli...lson-on-skyfall

 

 

Great find! Hadn't seen that interview. That's reassuring; suggests the whole creative team sees eye-to-eye on the next film.

[rubixcub]

Between QOS, "Muppets Most Wanted" and the latter "Pirates of the Caribbean" movies, I'm not all that keen on the idea of two-part films or sequels that pick up immediately after the first one ends (I still liked "Muppets Most Wanted" but the beginning, tearing down the closing number from the last one, was my least favorite part).  Also prefer the idea of a real ending rather than ending on a cliffhanger; didn't expect that in POTC: DMC, and I hated it when it happened.

 

Dave

[x007AceOfSpades]

If Bond 24 has connections to Skyfall, then I suppose that is quite alright, though I'm hoping it's just mainly with the characters that were introduced (Mallory, Moneypenny, Q, etc). One of the things I liked about Skyfall was that it had a definitive ending, and it felt great knowing that we're done with setting up everything for Craig's Bond, and that there was a sense of resolve per se.

 

A two part film could work, but it just feels cheap, seeing a lot of big franchises' doing it now to cash in more money, when you could condense it and do a film, (Harry Potter, The Hunger Games, even The Hobbit [to some]). It'll feel great to see a Craig Bond film open up and end without seeing it directly linked to another film.

[DavidJones]

I think Mendes has too much power, but I suppose he's been hired to helm it so that's what he's doing.

[Odd Jobbies]

I think Mendes has too much power, but I suppose he's been hired to helm it so that's what he's doing.

I guess they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.   Either Eon pulls the strings, making the Director just a tradesman carrying out their wishes, or he's an auteur with too much power for his own good.

 

I'm in the latter camp, since the former is just a conveyor belt churning out product. IMO if you've hired a good director then let him direct from top to bottom.  You wouldn't hire a football manager, then take away key players and then complain when he loses.

 

You've got to let him do it his way to get the best out of him. He'll never please all the people all of the time, but hopefully he'll give us something that's an uncompromised vision (as uncompromised as is possible in a billion dollar industry).

 

Now, how many more clichés can i throw into this reply?  

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 30 April 2014 - 01:36 PM.

[tdalton]

I think Mendes has too much power, but I suppose he's been hired to helm it so that's what he's doing.

 

I'd much rather the producers put the power in the hands of the directors that they hire rather than simply hiring a puppet to basically serve as their surrogate in the director's chair.  That's what has led to some of the staleness that had crept its way into the franchise, with some films repeating the same storylines, and the checklist becoming the most important part of the structure of the film, in some cases even exceeding the script in terms of its importance. 

[RMc2]

 

I think Mendes has too much power, but I suppose he's been hired to helm it so that's what he's doing.

 

I'd much rather the producers put the power in the hands of the directors that they hire rather than simply hiring a puppet to basically serve as their surrogate in the director's chair.  That's what has led to some of the staleness that had crept its way into the franchise, with some films repeating the same storylines, and the checklist becoming the most important part of the structure of the film, in some cases even exceeding the script in terms of its importance. 

 

 

I agree with you both - tdalton because you're right; DavidJones because I'm not a big fan of Mendes and worry what EON will let him get away with

[Odd Jobbies]

 

I think Mendes has too much power, but I suppose he's been hired to helm it so that's what he's doing.

 

I'd much rather the producers put the power in the hands of the directors that they hire rather than simply hiring a puppet to basically serve as their surrogate in the director's chair.  That's what has led to some of the staleness that had crept its way into the franchise, with some films repeating the same storylines, and the checklist becoming the most important part of the structure of the film, in some cases even exceeding the script in terms of its importance. 

 

Nicely put. In British TV they call a format - a menu of plot points for which the story is created and must adhere to.  It's been a way of making entertainment shows for decades, but has now become a staple of documentary and has crept ever so insidiously into drama. Hence most British drama seems to be made from the same template (particularly at the one time vanguard of drama, the Beeb. Sad times).

 

Gone are the days of nurturing talented Directors like Maki Lee, Ken Loach, Danny Boyle - we are now in the era of the Producer who oversees all, most of which they don't fathom, and run to a brief that supersedes all creative aspects. Every detail is micro managed until anything that made it remotely unique has massaged out of it. They've brought tv down to the lowest common denomenator, turning all genres into panto - from drama, to doc, to current affairs.

 

These middle management Producers go on to be Executive Producers and finally channel Commissioners, who for some ungodly reason are treated like absolute royalty. I've once been asked to re-cut something because of a dream the Commissioner had the night before. The Commissioner said this flippantly and no one in the room seemed to take it seriously because it made no sense in the edit. But once the Commissioner left the room the paranoid whispers began and office politics being far more persuasive than good story telling her 'dream idea' was implemented...!  

 

This is why it's good to have a director with great influence on the job - this is why, despite any whatever issues you may have with Mendes, ultimately it's great for film lovers to have him in that chair.

 

Fore these days most Movie making and tv drama is so much artifice hiding so little content. It's chicken and egg stuff to figure out if this factory-line way of making films started in tv or in the action movies of the 80s and then the rom-coms of the 90s, but it's a very very poor substitute for making films in which the content informs the structure, rather than visa versa.

 

Eon are in a period of content informing the structure by allowing directors to determine how the story is told. Long may it last.

 

Rant over.

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 30 April 2014 - 07:08 PM.

[Shrublands]

Empire are now making a big deal out of this find and giving credit to fans at MI6 for spotting it. The irony is, I posted it here days before anyone over there noticed it. 

 

 

Sam Mendes Explains His Bond 24 Return
And the next two films won't be a two-part story after all

 

http://www.empireonl...y.asp?NID=40906

[S K Y F A L L]

Good stuff. I hope we don't have to hear to much more about this. At this point I would hope they have more in the bag then 2 scripts starting to be put together. 

 

I'm thinking Chiwetel Ejiofor is signed on by now to otherwise why would Mendes saying anything to begin with. 

[RMc2]

Empire are now making a big deal out of this find and giving credit to fans at MI6 for spotting it. The irony is, I posted it here days before anyone over there noticed it. 

 

 

Sam Mendes Explains His Bond 24 Return
And the next two films won't be a two-part story after all

 

http://www.empireonl...y.asp?NID=40906

 

I feel for you! I even sent Empire a cheeky email yesterday But they're just reporting where they came across it; sadly, Empire's website isn't as on-the-pulse as it used to be and the quality of the writing has declined too.

[SecretAgentFan]

Empire are now making a big deal out of this find and giving credit to fans at MI6 for spotting it. The irony is, I posted it here days before anyone over there noticed it. 

 

 

Sam Mendes Explains His Bond 24 Return
And the next two films won't be a two-part story after all

 

http://www.empireonl...y.asp?NID=40906

 

Shameful.  You deserve the credit, Shrublands.  I´ll contact Empire, too.

[Shrublands]

I'm cool really, just made me smile. I'd have preferred CBn to get credit. 

[SAWfinger]

Well, I hate to rain on your parade, but in the interests of nit-picky accuracy, can I just point out that it was the JBIFC who first broke the Charlie Rose interview story, in their Newsletter, which first went out on Wednesday 23rd, at 23.45pm. They then ran it again, in a bit more detail, on Friday 25th. Shrublands placed it here on 25th. It was then taken up by MI6 website a few days later, which is where Empire then saw it. That's often the way these things work in this internet age. Its led to some really interesting discussion, though, including on this forum. Keep it up, guys.

[Shrublands]

Well, I hate to rain on your parade, but in the interests of nit-picky accuracy, can I just point out that it was the JBIFC who first broke the Charlie Rose interview story, in their Newsletter, which first went out on Wednesday 23rd, at 23.45pm. They then ran it again, in a bit more detail, on Friday 25th. Shrublands placed it here on 25th. It was then taken up by MI6 website a few days later, which is where Empire then saw it. That's often the way these things work in this internet age. Its led to some really interesting discussion, though, including on this forum. Keep it up, guys.

 

I suppose if you trace it back far enough, it was actually Charlie Rose and his website that broke the story.  I didn't know about the JBIFC post.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, I agree, I'm just glad we've got some new information to discuss. 

[SAWfinger]

Fair point! And, yes, it all helps to give us more info to scrutinize.

[sharpshooter]

If they take things on a film by film basis, perhaps Craig will as well. A two-parter could have locked him in for a finale. I guess anything is possible now. 

Edited by sharpshooter, 03 May 2014 - 09:39 AM.

[tdalton]

If they take things on a film by film basis, perhaps Craig will as well. A two-parter could have locked him in for a finale. I guess anything is possible now. 

 

Hopefully this is the case. 

 

Regardless, as much as I would welcome the idea of a well planned two-part story, Bond 24 needs to be a standalone effort, with a tight script that focuses on avoiding the overuse of coincidence and the many plot holes found in Skyfall.

[Iceskater101]

The two part story? What would it even cover? I think that James Bond is meant to be a one story, one mission kind of deal. I mean it's fine when Spectre is involved in multiple missions that would be cool. Like returning to the Quantum of Solace but a whole different mission all together would be okay for me. 

[Matt_13]

Sam Mendes gives a brief update on Bond 24:

http://www.ign.com/a...s-talks-bond-24