199 replies to this topic

[SecretAgentFan]

Easy. Do you know what P & W actually wrote in their first draft? What changed during the work on this scene with the director? What changed during the shooting, due to the actors´ ideas?

Also, some people do like this scene.

If you think that a screenwriter writes a script and it is filmed verbatim then you really do not have any grasp on what the process is like.

No, what did Purvis & Wade write in their first draft?
I fully understand that scripts go through multiple changes and that scripts can change due to an actor's ideas (Raiders of the Lost: Indy vs. the sword guy). But given the rest of the horrible cliche dialogue that makes up DAD and Pierece's criticism of the film and story in retrospective, I'm willing to bet this scene came from the pen of Purvis & Wade.
To sum up Purvis & Wade: their scripts would hit on an interesting idea and never follow up on it. TND & TWINE had interesting ideas if they were pursued or if risks were taken but no they just become straightforward action movies with Bond mowing down tons of people with machine guns. Pierce himself complained about how Bond's captivity in Noth Korea in DAD never influenced the rest of the film. He cuts his hair and shaves his beard and that's it. Granted this could have been due to Lee Tamahori who clearly had some messed ideas relating to the film.

Once again, you assume you know what P & W wrote and blame them for everything you did not like. And taking an actor´s statement for being the inside truth exposes your lack of knowledge about the industry. C´mon, Brosnan complaining about the one-liners or the scripts only serves one purpose: to protect himself. He could have refused to say anything he didn´t like and he probably did. I would not be surprised if some of the one-liners were his invention. Only when critics complained he probably distanced from those "bad scripts".

Okay so enligthen me. What did P&W write in their script? Do you have the script?

Man, don´t you understand by now? We both do not know those scripts in their various drafts. That´s why we cannot know for sure what P & W wrote. Do you get it now?

[Pussfeller]

Schrodinger's hack.

[SecretAgentFan]

Schrodinger's hack.

My quantum of solace.

[THX-007]

Easy. Do you know what P & W actually wrote in their first draft? What changed during the work on this scene with the director? What changed during the shooting, due to the actors´ ideas?

Also, some people do like this scene.

If you think that a screenwriter writes a script and it is filmed verbatim then you really do not have any grasp on what the process is like.

No, what did Purvis & Wade write in their first draft?
I fully understand that scripts go through multiple changes and that scripts can change due to an actor's ideas (Raiders of the Lost: Indy vs. the sword guy). But given the rest of the horrible cliche dialogue that makes up DAD and Pierece's criticism of the film and story in retrospective, I'm willing to bet this scene came from the pen of Purvis & Wade.
To sum up Purvis & Wade: their scripts would hit on an interesting idea and never follow up on it. TND & TWINE had interesting ideas if they were pursued or if risks were taken but no they just become straightforward action movies with Bond mowing down tons of people with machine guns. Pierce himself complained about how Bond's captivity in Noth Korea in DAD never influenced the rest of the film. He cuts his hair and shaves his beard and that's it. Granted this could have been due to Lee Tamahori who clearly had some messed ideas relating to the film.

Once again, you assume you know what P & W wrote and blame them for everything you did not like. And taking an actor´s statement for being the inside truth exposes your lack of knowledge about the industry. C´mon, Brosnan complaining about the one-liners or the scripts only serves one purpose: to protect himself. He could have refused to say anything he didn´t like and he probably did. I would not be surprised if some of the one-liners were his invention. Only when critics complained he probably distanced from those "bad scripts".

Okay so enligthen me. What did P&W write in their script? Do you have the script?

Man, don´t you understand by now? We both do not know those scripts in their various drafts. That´s why we cannot know for sure what P & W wrote. Do you get it now?

We both do not know those scripts in their various drafts. That´s why we cannot know for sure what P & W wrote

So then why are you defending P&W when I say the dialogue and story in DAD was horrendous? You said yourself that you don't know what was in the scripts. Then why are you saying P&W didn't DAD's horrendous dialogue? Whether it was themselves or studio notes, bad story and bad dialogue is still bad story and bad dialogue no matter who wrote it or contributed to it. And at end of the day they're the ones with the screenwriter credit so yes I do blame P&W. They wrote three bland Bond films, one good one, and the worst one in the series.
I like how you take every oppoturnity to insult me.

[SecretAgentFan]

I did not insult you. And I do not like how you take every opportunity to twist my pointed out facts to lay blame to P & W.

Granted, I´m touchy because as a screenwriter myself I know how frustrating it is to be blamed for things that were not my mistake.

But having a credit on a film some people dislike doesn´t make any screenwriter guilty.

However, if you just love to have a scapegoat then go ahead.

Edited by SecretAgentFan, 29 October 2012 - 05:02 PM.

[Redneck007]

I welcome turning the page and starting with a new vision. Purvis & Wade had a good run but I think it's time to move on with something fresh.

[SecretAgentFan]

Exactly!

[Twingolot]

What about Bond apparently killing his nemesis in Bond 24, but being brainwashed and trying to kill M at the beginning of Bond 25? Then M would send Bond after another villain without any support (just like in TMWTGG). And that villain who would be his nemesis again (sounds like DAF, except DAF's plot was'nt really interesting (although I love the movie). And I've got the titles: Risico and Dr. Shatterhand.

Whatever, I would love to see the bridge scene from Moonraker with Daniel Craig and Ralph Fiennes playing together. And the Champagne-scene too.

Edited by Twingolot, 29 October 2012 - 06:23 PM.

[univex]

What about Bond apparently killing his nemesis in Bond 24, but being brainwashed and trying to kill M at the beginning of Bond 25? Then M would send Bond after another villain without any support (just like in TMWTGG). And that villain who would be his nemesis again (sounds like DAF, except DAF's plot was'nt really interesting (although I love the movie). And I've got the titles: Risico and Dr. Shatterhand.

Whatever, I would love to see the bridge scene from Moonraker with Daniel Craig and Ralph Fiennes playing together. And the Champagne-scene too.

Yes to almost all of that. Bridge at Blades, absolutely! Dr. Shatterhand? Absolutely!

[docholiday]

I really like the title "Risico". Always have.

[Pussfeller]

What about Bond apparently killing his nemesis in Bond 24, but being brainwashed and trying to kill M at the beginning of Bond 25? Then M would send Bond after another villain without any support (just like in TMWTGG). And that villain who would be his nemesis again (sounds like DAF, except DAF's plot was'nt really interesting (although I love the movie). And I've got the titles: Risico and Dr. Shatterhand.

I like it, except that I'd prefer the second title to be just plain Shatterhand, since we've already had a "Dr" title.

Whatever, I would love to see the bridge scene from Moonraker with Daniel Craig and Ralph Fiennes playing together. And the Champagne-scene too.

Yeah, Mallory has got to belong to some fusty old club where they play bridge and read salmon-colored newspapers. If Blades reappears, it will surely be as Mallory's hangout, not Bond's.

[univex]

What about Bond apparently killing his nemesis in Bond 24, but being brainwashed and trying to kill M at the beginning of Bond 25? Then M would send Bond after another villain without any support (just like in TMWTGG). And that villain who would be his nemesis again (sounds like DAF, except DAF's plot was'nt really interesting (although I love the movie). And I've got the titles: Risico and Dr. Shatterhand.

I like it, except that I'd prefer the second title to be just plain Shatterhand, since we've already had a "Dr" title.

Whatever, I would love to see the bridge scene from Moonraker with Daniel Craig and Ralph Fiennes playing together. And the Champagne-scene too.

Yeah, Mallory has got to belong to some fusty old club where they play bridge and read salmon-colored newspapers. If Blades reappears, it will surely be as Mallory's hangout, not Bond's.

Mr. Shatterhand works as well A bit like Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang

[tdalton]

As much as I like the idea of adapting elements of TMWTGG, that one would again necessitate there being trust issues between Bond and M. We've had too much of that as of late and it's time for a few films to go by without such elements.

[S K Y F A L L]

Sorry if this has already been suggested, but I wonder if Bond 24 and 25 will be like TB was to YOLT. We hear and kind of see Blofeld in TB and then he is the main villain in YOLT, perhaps Bond 24 will feature Quantum and Bond 25 will have Bond facing off against whoever is running Quantum.

[Armand Fancypants]

If you're doing a two-film epic, I'd like to see an element of Thunderball extrapolated and taken to the nth degree, namely the involvement of all the 00s on one mission in different parts of the world. Just so happens that Bond is in the right spot. Instead you could have this organisation, be it Quantum or SPECTRE or whatever launch, say, 7 or so Bond-film level plots at once (some could be references to Bond films, as we wouldn't necessarily see them, so it could be submarines vanishing while nukes get stolen while some lower-level agents get assassinated, et cetera) with each 00 investigating each one.

We obviously follow whichever one Bond is investigating, but as the other 00s get whittled down (inevitably) to just Bond he encounters some of the others, so you would have one Bond-style plot intersecting with others, gradually revealing the extent of the terrorist organisation, and Bond ultimately encounters Blofeld or whatever. That's more than a bit vague, but I think something like that would be how you pull of scale in this day and age without going into Moonraker territory. And the pre-titles of GoldenEye are so popular that I think people would enjoy seeing Bond work with other 00s.

Edited by Armand Fancypants, 29 October 2012 - 11:53 PM.

[S K Y F A L L]

I really like the title "Risico" but I"m not a fan of "Shatterhand" and what is a Shatterhand?

[Simon]

What is a Moonraker? If you didn't have a book or a film to attach it to.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

I really like the title "Risico" but I"m not a fan of "Shatterhand" and what is a Shatterhand?

Guntram Shatterhand was the alias Blofeld used in the novel You Only Live Twice.

[TheREAL008]

Credit to where it's due. But P&W should have bowed out, along with Dame Judi after DAD. GE and TWINE are the only movies I like from the Bronsan era and which I think hold up better than TND and DAD.

I believe what they brought to the table for CR is respectable and something to be proud of. QoS was the fault of the writer's strike, which is why it's half a good film.

[THX-007]

I did not insult you. And I do not like how you take every opportunity to twist my pointed out facts to lay blame to P & W.

Granted, I´m touchy because as a screenwriter myself I know how frustrating it is to be blamed for things that were not my mistake.

But having a credit on a film some people dislike doesn´t make any screenwriter guilty.

However, if you just love to have a scapegoat then go ahead.

And I do not like how you take every opportunity to twist my pointed out facts to lay blame to P & W.

So far you haven't shown me any facts merely speculation. Show me facts that back up your claims that I might coincide. So far all you've gone on about is the nature of the screenwriting business. But it doesn't always apply to every single film. Sometimes there's meddling with scripts and sometimes there aren't. There have been cases of great script but lousy execution.
So far there hasn't been anything from P&W to indicate they were forced to put things into the script that were against their wishes or their judgement. If that can be proven then I find they're off the hook.
If we've talking about DAD, I'm not putting sole blame on P&W. It was a up on all levels. Lee Tamahori was a nut who had ideas that thankfully got scrapped and MGW & BB stood on the sidelines and never once thought, "You know, this looks pretty silly. Even the Moore movies didn't sink to this level."
But I can point to issues that pop in every one of Brosnan films that P&W wrote so its not limited to one film where the director or producers pushed them on this or that.
The real shame is Brosnan showed promise after his Goldeneye debut but was let down with every single film afterward because of a poor or at best mediocre story. Brosnan showed improvement in his acting but by DAD he had nothing to work with.

Edited by THX-007, 31 October 2012 - 08:25 AM.

[SecretAgentFan]

Yeah, facts and not speculation are what this argument really needs.

[Vauxhall]

An article on the other Bond site has a very interesting quote from Robert Wade about BOND 24: "I know that John Logan and Sam Mendes have come up with a plot for another one."

Is this the first suggestion we've had that Mendes is/was involved in Logan's pitched idea?

[JimmyBond]

An article on the other Bond site has a very interesting quote from Robert Wade about BOND 24: "I know that John Logan and Sam Mendes have come up with a plot for another one."

Is this the first suggestion we've had that Mendes is/was involved in Logan's pitched idea?

I read that too (maybe the same time you did ). I put it on the front page as it's the first I heard of it. Seems to suggest Mendes may be returning eh?

[Vauxhall]

Just spotted it on the main page here too at CBn. Good work.

I'd absolutely agree that extract is the most interesting bit of the Purvis/Wade quotes. It suggests that, even if Mendes doesn't end up directing BOND 24, he may still have a notable part to play. Very encouraging news.

[Matt_13]

My guess is that Mendes will remain as a consultant for the next two films, though I'd be shocked if he actually directed either of them.

[Vauxhall]

My guess is that Mendes will remain as a consultant for the next two films, though I'd be shocked if he actually directed either of them.

Yes, agreed. Perhaps Mendes could have a role similar to Christopher Nolan's with the forthcoming MAN OF STEEL. That alone would be a huge source of encouragement as we head into the next couple of movies.

[archer1949]

"Shatterhand".....oh, hell yeah.

And I've been wanting to see the Death Garden on film ever since I read an old, beat up copy of YOLT in the school library way back in the day......

[quantumofsolace]

http://www.denofgeek...ack-for-bond-24

[graric]

My guess is that Mendes will remain as a consultant for the next two films, though I'd be shocked if he actually directed either of them.

Yes, agreed. Perhaps Mendes could have a role similar to Christopher Nolan's with the forthcoming MAN OF STEEL. That alone would be a huge source of encouragement as we head into the next couple of movies.

Hopefully Mendes was a much more significant role than Nolan does for Man of Steel as by Nolan's own admission he has had next to nothing to do with the film after the initial pitch of it to Warner Brothers (they would only agree to David Goyer's script if Nolan would sign on as a producer, a role he has said is primarily ceremonial and he has put no real say into the film, saying he does not want to interfere with Synder's vision.) Warner Brothers only wanted Nolan's name on the project so they could promote the movie based on his record, if Mendes was involved in the next Bond film it will almost definitely be as a director.

[seawolfnyy]

I agree that Mendes would be probably be the director.