663 replies to this topic

[Pussfeller]

I still have my doubts, but that comment really makes me wonder. Could Fiennes be signalling to Fleming fans that the rumor is true?

When was the last time a Bond villain had sex on-screen? Elektra did, but only because she needed to be close to Bond.

Precisely. Bond villains are rarely shown having sex. So why did he feel the need to mention it? It's an odd thing to mention. That's what struck me. As I said, I think the odds are probably against it. But that remark is the first thing I've seen connected to Fiennes that made me think, "Blofeld!"

[Captain Tightpants]

I still reckon that the business with M will simply be a subplot, and the Craig/Bardem stuff will be the main plot.

[Single-O-Seven]

I still have my doubts, but that comment really makes me wonder. Could Fiennes be signalling to Fleming fans that the rumor is true?

When was the last time a Bond villain had sex on-screen? Elektra did, but only because she needed to be close to Bond.

Precisely. Bond villains are rarely shown having sex. So why did he feel the need to mention it? It's an odd thing to mention. That's what struck me. As I said, I think the odds are probably against it. But that remark is the first thing I've seen connected to Fiennes that made me think, "Blofeld!"

I got the impression that he dropped the line as a casual joke given the series' strong association with sex. I.E., he's hinting that he may get involved in some action scenes, but the sex will still be left to Bond, of course!

[d21089]

Yeah that didn't strike me as a Blofeld hint, and frankly it seems an odd movie to introduce Blofeld in- especially with no link to Quantum and assuming that they aren't going to introduce Spectre- but it does mean he's most likely a baddie or Q, and honestly i think Whishaw is more likely to be Q than Fiennes who I see as possibly working with Finney to undermine M for political gain- with more sinister motives than Finney's character who while ambitious is really a pawn in what Fiennes has going on

[DaveBond21]

With no connection to the previous two films, I doubt that Fiennes is playing Blofeld or the head of another organisation.

But he could be playing a former Cold War spy who has some dirt on M.


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[freemo]

Wow. I really am out of touch. I mean, if I had it my way Bond would live on a beach house in Jamaica and get his mission briefings via fax and then he'd would be off to one location for the story and we'd barely ever see or hear or smell anything of MI6 ever again.

But this, this is what fans really want, isn't it? Lots of M and Bond and lectures and poigency and "now you've learn't your lesson" and "knowing who to trust" and M being mad with Bond but not really and M's micromanagement of Bond's assignments and M being Bond's babysitter and drab Whitehall dealings and shadows from the past coming out of the shadows and this time it's personal and (oh, dear God) Moneypenny as a field agent.

If this were a very minor subplot, contrasting Bond's rise to the top of his game as 00 with M's downfall then maybe I could stomache it. But it won't be.

I don't think of myself as a "basher" or a "hater" or a negative for the sake of being negative person. I've been getting back into Bond recently after a bit of a layoff (mostly the written Bond, but still) as was really excited about Bond 23 - Hell, I even stayed up last night to hear the title - but this plot synopsis is a major letdown for me. I don't hate it in a hissyfit craignotbond.com way. I just don't think it's interesting or colourful or original or what I particulary want from a Bond film. I love 21 of the 22 EON films made so far, but this conjures up horrible images in my mind of "the other one". You know which one I mean. But hey, if that's your thing I'm stoked for you. You're the ones getting the Bond film that you want, so all the more power to you. Don't let me rain on your parade. Enjoy. Bask. Revel.

I'm aware that this is an overreaction to a pretty short and vauge synopsis, and that the film may very well be fantastic and mindblowing and nothing all like I'm imagine. But today this news hit me like a lead balloon. That's just how I feel.

[Loomis]

Well said, freemo (good to see you back, by the way).

Yep, you can bet we're in for acres of (awkwardly delivered) dialogue about "knowing who to trust" and "the big picture" and "painful compromises" and so forth. Indeed, this will make up 40% of the film, the remaining 60% consisting of loud, incoherent and mostly utterly dull action scenes.

It all sounds like they're trying to mate TINKER TAILOR SOLDIER SPY with THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH.

[DamnCoffee]

Well said Freemo. You see, if everyone on here could be that polite whilst expressing their views as you are, then this forum would be even better.

[DaveBond21]

Maybe M stands for Mother, and we find out that M is actually Bond's Mum, and Albert Finney is his dad, and they invite him to Castle Skyfall to lure him to his death, until Fiennes steps in as an old spy from the past, 008.

It also refers to that line in CR, when 007 says "I thought M was a randomly assigned letter, I didn't realise it stood for "Mummy".


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[Loomis]

Maybe M stands for Mother, and we find out that M is actually Bond's Mum, and Albert Finney is his dad, and they invite him to Castle Skyfall to lure him to his death, until Fiennes steps in as an old spy from the past, 008.

You joke, but I can pretty much picture all that happening.

[Loomis]

Well, let's hope you're right.

Now, where's my VIEW TO A KILL DVD? That sort of thing would really hit the spot right about now.

[Captain Tightpants]

If this were a very minor subplot, contrasting Bond's rise to the top of his game as 00 with M's downfall then maybe I could stomache it. But it won't be.

How would you suggest writing M's downfall into the film without it affecting Bond? If M is going down, Bond's fate is inexorably tied to her, since she is the one who found him, and he has so far managed to:

- Get caught on camera killing Mollaka after invading an embassy.
- Break into M's apartment and reveal that he knows her name (which is a closely-guarded secret).
- Miss Vesper Lynd's betrayal and lose $115 million in poker winnings in the process.
- Delivered Le Chiffre's body to the Americans, rather than take him alive.
- Failed to detain Craig Mitchell.
- Ignored a direct order to report in after the death of a Special Branch agent.
- Embarrass M by continuing to ignore orders to the point where the Foreign Secretary told her to bring him in.

Now, to be fair, a lot of these incidents have actually had positive effects. For example, when Bond killed Mollaka, it was because he knew Mollaka would report to his employer if he survived. Bond also found evidence that led him straight to that employer, and forced them to act knowing that he was prowling around. But when you look at it on paper, from a purely political standpoint - and M's downfall is likely to be politically-motivated - then Bond is a liability when all he has really been doing is making the best decision available based on whatever information he had at the time. A lot of the politicians wouldn't really be able to make that distinction; they'll just look back on it with 20/20 hindsight. M's comments to Villiers in CASINO ROYALE make it pretty clear that despite all their posturing, the politicians have no grasp of the situation (and that while she would privately give Bond a roasting, in public she was willing to back him if he could convince her to). So when those same politicians come looking for blood, they'll want to take down M and anyone connected to her.

You also point to M's micromanagement of Bond as a problem - why can't this be used in the film to fuel her downfall? She's not a particularly effective leader in that respect, and she's the head of a clandestine organisation. I can't imagine that it would sit too well with Downing Street that M cannot see the forest for the trees.

[007jamesbond]

hm...the plot is vague but it feels that it been ripped off from Spook series 10 storyline about Harry Pierece and something to do with cold war...I feel it will something similar.

I still reckon that the business with M will simply be a subplot, and the Craig/Bardem stuff will be the main plot.

I agree with you that it will definately be a sub plot because I see M asking Bond to do it off the books no question ask. It shouldnt have anything to do with the main plot but I could see Bond getting a bit distracted with this news he found out. Or maybe the two villian Barden and Finnes? join forces or some kind of conspiracy..take down M and Mi6 together

[freemo]

Indeed, this will make up 40% of the film, the remaining 60% consisting of loud, incoherent and mostly utterly dull action scenes.

Good to see you too, Loomie.

Yes, your point about the action scenes is interesting.

The best Bond "action" films IMO are OHMSS and For Your Eyes Only, with Casino Royale a little way behind.

Apart from the action sequences being thrilling and very richly put together, they actually move the story along, raise the tension and stakes, and sometimes even help develop character. E.g Bond really, really, really falls in love with Tracey over their car chase getaway.

There are other films, however, where the movie practically drops everything and stops what it's doing because "it's time for an action scene". The action is usually incoherent, the attempt of Bond's life for seemingly no reason than "because". They acheive nothing and can often be completely excised from film with nothing lost.

[Syndicate]

It good that it a stand alone plot. I wonder will there be the gunbarrel at the begining before the precredit. What about the good famous Bond lines like Bond...James Bond and so on being in the movie. I wonder will there be a Q in the movie. So what did they say on the news conference, for those of you who where able to watch it.

The plot sounds good, about stuff resuffacing from M's past to haunt her. I would agree with some people on other post that M is not a double agent. This could be Judi Dench last outing at M, IF it is I hope the next M will be the Bernard Lee and Robert Brown type. The title SkyFall sounds like a Jame Bond comic book title from the 90s by Eclips

As to villians Bond slept with, he did sleep with Fiona Volpe in Thunderball and she stayed a villian. As bond said to afterwards.

[after making love to the evil Fiona Volpe]
James Bond: My dear girl, don't flatter yourself. What I did this evening was for Queen and country. You don't think it gave me any pleasure, do you?
Fiona: But of course, I forgot your ego, Mr. Bond. James Bond, the one where he has to make love to a woman, and she starts to hear heavenly choirs singing. She repents, and turns to the side of right and virtue...
[she steps on Bond's foot]
Fiona: ... but not this one!

[Captain Tightpants]

Okay, crazy idea: if SKYFALL revolves around something M did decades ago, how about a period-piece PTS showing what actually happened? It would have to be carefully-done, so that it's not immediately obvious that something horrible happened (until the big reveal at the start of third act), but it seems like the kind of stylistic choice that Mendes might make and be able to pull off (we did, after all, have a black-and-white PTS in CASINO ROYALE).

Of course, we'd need a young M for this, and we can't excatly de-age Dame Judi. And I think using CGI to make her appear younger (as Brett Ratner did for Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen in THE LAST STAND) would be incredibly unpopular (and rightly so).

But there is another way. How do you make 76 year-old Judi Dench look like she's 40 again?

You cast her daughter in the role:

[Dustin]

Possibly! Fiennes as an-ex 00 agent? Presumed dead after 'Operation Skyfall' failed, but has now returned to exact his revenge? (Sounds all a bit Trevelyan/Goldeneye, I know, but the personal angle against M would make it a bit different).

How about this: Fiennes *WAS* 007 prior to Craig/Bond taking over the number at the start of CR. He did a personal favor mission for M (possibly like the FYEO short story), but it went bad, '007' was believed to be killed, and M covered it up to protect herself. This would even tie in to some CR dialogue : "I knew it was too early to promote you (because we had a perfectly good 007)" and "I understand 00s have a short life expectancy" (Bond knows damn well what happened to his predecessor).

So Finnes would want to have his shirt number back now? And Bond of course doesn't agree, I see.

[CasinoKiller]

I must say, having been off Bond for a while, I was quiet excited to catch up on this new 'Skyfall' news this morning.

I've always got the impression that the next film would revolve around M in some way, given that it looks likely that this will be her last outing as M. Furthermore, in CR and QOS, the Bond-M relationship has been a significant sub-plot, and I've always believed that there would be some massive 'pay-off' from this relationship from a narrative standpoint.

I sincerly hope then that Skyfall turns out to be a bit of a political thriller. QOS, as stylistic as the action scenes were, was ultimately pretty much of a run of the mill action film, with the plot serving more or less as an excuse to navigate 007 from one action scene to the next. I would love to see some conspiracy and intrigue...as well as some political maneuvering. The latest Bond book, Carte Blanche, did devote significant space to the political minefield M had to navigate, and all the rivalries and backstabbing that exist between different Ministries and the intelligence agencies under them.

[dinovelvet]

Of course, we'd need a young M for this, and we can't excatly de-age Dame Judi. And I think using CGI to make her appear younger (as Brett Ratner did for Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen in THE LAST STAND) would be incredibly unpopular (and rightly so).

But there is another way. How do you make 76 year-old Judi Dench look like she's 40 again?

You cast her daughter in the role:

I was going to say I posted something in another thread, until I realized it was THIS thread - go back one page, I noted that Helen McCrory has been confirmed as part of the cast of SF (ooh, bustin' out the new acronym!), and she just happens to bear more than a passing resemblance to Judi. She could definitely play a younger M, or M's daughter (perhaps another scenario involves Bardem seducing her and manipulating her against M).

How about this: Fiennes *WAS* 007 prior to Craig/Bond taking over the number at the start of CR. He did a personal favor mission for M (possibly like the FYEO short story), but it went bad, '007' was believed to be killed, and M covered it up to protect herself. This would even tie in to some CR dialogue : "I knew it was too early to promote you (because we had a perfectly good 007)" and "I understand 00s have a short life expectancy" (Bond knows damn well what happened to his predecessor).

So Finnes would want to have his shirt number back now? And Bond of course doesn't agree, I see.

Haha...well I just made it up on the spot, but presumably Fiennes would have become bitter/evil etc and would no longer want to serve the government.

[Captain Tightpants]

Possibly! Fiennes as an-ex 00 agent? Presumed dead after 'Operation Skyfall' failed, but has now returned to exact his revenge? (Sounds all a bit Trevelyan/Goldeneye, I know, but the personal angle against M would make it a bit different).

How about this: Fiennes *WAS* 007 prior to Craig/Bond taking over the number at the start of CR. He did a personal favor mission for M (possibly like the FYEO short story), but it went bad, '007' was believed to be killed, and M covered it up to protect herself. This would even tie in to some CR dialogue : "I knew it was too early to promote you (because we had a perfectly good 007)" and "I understand 00s have a short life expectancy" (Bond knows damn well what happened to his predecessor).

So Finnes would want to have his shirt number back now? And Bond of course doesn't agree, I see.

What if Fiennes was the original Double-Oh? Not Bond's immediate predecessor, but the very first person to be assigned a Double-Oh number?

But then, I always got the sense that Double-Oh agents were only retired when they were killed - something like "Statistically speaking, on average you will most likely die some time before your fifth assignmenr."

[freemo]

How about this: Fiennes *WAS* 007 prior to Craig/Bond taking over the number at the start of CR. He did a personal favor mission for M (possibly like the FYEO short story), but it went bad, '007' was believed to be killed, and M covered it up to protect herself. This would even tie in to some CR dialogue : "I knew it was too early to promote you (because we had a perfectly good 007)" and "I understand 00s have a short life expectancy" (Bond knows damn well what happened to his predecessor).

Oh, that's clever. I could see that. Love how you'd tied it into CR. Seems in line with the type of Bond stories BB&MGW tell too.

But then, I always got the sense that Double-Oh agents were only retired when they were killed -something like "Statistically speaking, on average you will most likely die some time before your fifth assignment."

Quite. But he could the only 00 who ever didn't, for whatever reason. The only 00 who didn't die, but the one who might as well have.

[Germanlady]

I think, DC's hair is military like short.Just throwing that in - dunno if that rings a bell or gives an idea. I doubt, JB would cut if that short unless there is a reason.

[David Schofield]

I was going to say I posted something in another thread, until I realized it was THIS thread - go back one page, I noted that Helen McCrory has been confirmed as part of the cast of SF (ooh, bustin' out the new acronym!), and she just happens to bear more than a passing resemblance to Judi. She could definitely play a younger M, or M's daughter (perhaps another scenario involves Bardem seducing her and manipulating her against M).

How about this: Fiennes *WAS* 007 prior to Craig/Bond taking over the number at the start of CR. He did a personal favor mission for M (possibly like the FYEO short story), but it went bad, '007' was believed to be killed, and M covered it up to protect herself. This would even tie in to some CR dialogue : "I knew it was too early to promote you (because we had a perfectly good 007)" and "I understand 00s have a short life expectancy" (Bond knows damn well what happened to his predecessor).

So Finnes would want to have his shirt number back now? And Bond of course doesn't agree, I see.

Haha...well I just made it up on the spot, but presumably Fiennes would have become bitter/evil etc and would no longer want to serve the government.

A nice idea, I guess, but surely a bit too evocative of Trevelyan (006) in GOLDENEYE?

And surely, leads into the minefield of the codename theory? Hell, why not get Brozza back as Dench-M's former 007?

I credit BB & MGW with greater attention to detail than this and very much doubt Fiennes was ever "on our side".

[Captain Tightpants]

Another, crazy idea: Ralph Fiennes won't play Ernst Stavro Blofeld.

He'll be Miles Messervy.

As I've said, I think that, in context, "Skyfall" is an off-the-books operation run by M and a few select others during the Cold War. When it went badly, it was covered up, and has lain dormant for decades. Naturally, this secret is going to come to light over the course of the story. If it's as big and as earth-shattering as I think it will be, then it's not just going to be a threat to M - it's going to take out several high-ranking members of the intelligence community and/or parliament (possibly including Albert Finney, or he could be M's "executioner", the one who stands her down). With the public controversy surrounding the Skyfall incident, Downing Street needs someone as far removed from the embarrassment as possible - and who else but Miles Messervy, rising star of British intelligence, and sector chief in Shanghai at the start of the film? It would make for a great ending, with the final reveal that Fiennes is the new M.

Now, I know the name Ernst Stavro Blofeld keeps getting bandied about by the tabloids, but those same tabloids insisted that Naomie Harris would be Moneypenny, and they were wrong (though they still insist that Harris will be Moneypenny). Where there's smoke, there's fire, so maybe they're getting predictions of Fiennes as Blofeld wrong, too. And when you think about it, the role of Messervy is darkly complex, too - he has to not only order the deaths of others, but he has to be willing to send men like Bond to their deaths. And if Skyfall is some massive controversy that embarrasses MI6, Messervy would have to do it all under intense public scrutiny.

[dinovelvet]

I was going to say I posted something in another thread, until I realized it was THIS thread - go back one page, I noted that Helen McCrory has been confirmed as part of the cast of SF (ooh, bustin' out the new acronym!), and she just happens to bear more than a passing resemblance to Judi. She could definitely play a younger M, or M's daughter (perhaps another scenario involves Bardem seducing her and manipulating her against M).

How about this: Fiennes *WAS* 007 prior to Craig/Bond taking over the number at the start of CR. He did a personal favor mission for M (possibly like the FYEO short story), but it went bad, '007' was believed to be killed, and M covered it up to protect herself. This would even tie in to some CR dialogue : "I knew it was too early to promote you (because we had a perfectly good 007)" and "I understand 00s have a short life expectancy" (Bond knows damn well what happened to his predecessor).

So Finnes would want to have his shirt number back now? And Bond of course doesn't agree, I see.

Haha...well I just made it up on the spot, but presumably Fiennes would have become bitter/evil etc and would no longer want to serve the government.

A nice idea, I guess, but surely a bit too evocative of Trevelyan (006) in GOLDENEYE?

And surely, leads into the minefield of the codename theory? Hell, why not get Brozza back as Dench-M's former 007?

I credit BB & MGW with greater attention to detail than this and very much doubt Fiennes was ever "on our side".

Well like I said, it was something I just made up on the spot. The difference between this theoretical villain and Trevelyan would be that originally Fiennes was a true blue British secret agent prepared to give his life for his country, whereas old Alec was always a villain, biding his time as he masqueraded as a 00. And also Fiennes' comeback would be specifically targeting M for his vengeance, and not a big evil plot to destroy Britain. The grey moral area and EON-friendly emotional conflict for Bond would be that M is genuinely guilty of having made a mistake, whatever the Skyfall operation was, and he would feel a kinship with the Fiennes character despite having orders to kill him. Anyway this is all getting a bit fanfic, and Bardem has been confirmed as THE villain.

[David Schofield]

Well like I said, it was something I just made up on the spot. The difference between this theoretical villain and Trevelyan would be that originally Fiennes was a true blue British secret agent prepared to give his life for his country, whereas old Alec was always a villain, biding his time as he masqueraded as a 00. And also Fiennes' comeback would be specifically targeting M for his vengeance, and not a big evil plot to destroy Britain. The grey moral area and EON-friendly emotional conflict for Bond would be that M is genuinely guilty of having made a mistake, whatever the Skyfall operation was, and he would feel a kinship with the Fiennes character despite having orders to kill him. Anyway this is all getting a bit fanfic, and Bardem has been confirmed as THE villain.

Was Treleveyan ALWAYS a villain, though? His parents may have been betrayed by the British but were actutally shot by the Soviets! Why would he then RISK HIS LIFE and work for them!!!??? Makes no sense. Nor does the elaborate set-up to fake his own death with Mishkin.

My view is that Mishkin actually shot Treveleyan, believing him to be dead, Bond escaped, Trevelyan was not quite dead and it was from this point Trevelyan became Janus and plotted against Bond and Britain.

Still, another film, another time.

But as you say, Bardem is the "main" villain. I suspect Fienns will be the bigger villain, however.

[Harmsway]

Wow. I really am out of touch. I mean, if I had it my way Bond would live on a beach house in Jamaica and get his mission briefings via fax and then he'd would be off to one location for the story and we'd barely ever see or hear or smell anything of MI6 ever again.

But this, this is what fans really want, isn't it? Lots of M and Bond and lectures and poigency and "now you've learn't your lesson" and "knowing who to trust" and M being mad with Bond but not really and M's micromanagement of Bond's assignments and M being Bond's babysitter and drab Whitehall dealings and shadows from the past coming out of the shadows and this time it's personal and (oh, dear God) Moneypenny as a field agent.

If this were a very minor subplot, contrasting Bond's rise to the top of his game as 00 with M's downfall then maybe I could stomache it. But it won't be.

I don't think of myself as a "basher" or a "hater" or a negative for the sake of being negative person. I've been getting back into Bond recently after a bit of a layoff (mostly the written Bond, but still) as was really excited about Bond 23 - Hell, I even stayed up last night to hear the title - but this plot synopsis is a major letdown for me. I don't hate it in a hissyfit craignotbond.com way. I just don't think it's interesting or colourful or original or what I particulary want from a Bond film. I love 21 of the 22 EON films made so far, but this conjures up horrible images in my mind of "the other one". You know which one I mean. But hey, if that's your thing I'm stoked for you. You're the ones getting the Bond film that you want, so all the more power to you. Don't let me rain on your parade. Enjoy. Bask. Revel.

I'm aware that this is an overreaction to a pretty short and vauge synopsis, and that the film may very well be fantastic and mindblowing and nothing all like I'm imagine. But today this news hit me like a lead balloon. That's just how I feel.

Totally agreed.

The Bond/M relationship is my least favorite element of the Craig Bond films. Making that the focal point of a new film makes me shudder with fear at the thought of endless conversations built purely out of made-for-the-trailer dialogue.

[Zorin Industries]

Folk do realise that the plot strapline is not the whole story, but a brief titbit intended to raise interest without giving anything away. SKYFALL will not be wholly about that one sentence.

[marktmurphy]

Possibly! Fiennes as an-ex 00 agent? Presumed dead after 'Operation Skyfall' failed, but has now returned to exact his revenge? (Sounds all a bit Trevelyan/Goldeneye, I know, but the personal angle against M would make it a bit different).

How about this: Fiennes *WAS* 007 prior to Craig/Bond taking over the number at the start of CR. He did a personal favor mission for M (possibly like the FYEO short story), but it went bad, '007' was believed to be killed, and M covered it up to protect herself. This would even tie in to some CR dialogue : "I knew it was too early to promote you (because we had a perfectly good 007)" and "I understand 00s have a short life expectancy" (Bond knows damn well what happened to his predecessor).

Oh yes, I like that a lot.
The idea of MI6 being the target is quite nice for a Bond movie, too.

[Captain Tightpants]

The idea of MI6 being the target is quite nice for a Bond movie, too.

Indeed. People have pointed out the similarities to TWINE, but there is one critical difference here - in TWINE, MI6 was the instrument of the attack; here, they might be the target. And that's a major difference.