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Did QoS cause a backlash to the 'realistic' Bond


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#61 jaguar007

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 01:24 AM

There's plenty of sharp, appropriate, well-written humour in Q0S inspite of the meloncholic nature of the film. I wrote two big paragraphs outlining some of it in my thread in the Members' Review section of the Forums:

http://debrief.comma...showtopic=51654


Every review calling the film 'humourless' that I read before I saw the film (maybe one too many) absolutely baffled me once I had. There are so many moments of classical Bond humour...I just don't see how it escapes some people.


It's because Bond was not making sexual innundeos while wiggling his eyebrows every five minutes.

#62 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 01:40 AM

the Bond given us in QOS is not the Bond Fleming gave us at the end of CR or beginning of LALD. He is also not similar to the Bond of the early movies, wihch he rather resembled by the end of CR (again with less humor, but a certain similar detached suavity and deadliness). Instead QOS gives us an obsessed with Vesper Bond that's not particularly interesting or I think consistent with how the character was left at the end of either CR the movie or CR the book.


The same can be said for many of the Bond movies. The Bond Roger Moore gave us in Moonraker or The Spy Who Loved Me does not resemble the Bond in any of Fleming's books or the Bond in the early films like DR. No or FRWL.


Yes, but the Bond of of the beginning of QOS needed to be to be consistent- unlike the examples that you mentioned- with the Bond of the last scene of CR, because is a direct sequel that starts just an hour after its predecessor's finale.


Remember that QoS made it clear to us that the last scene in CR took place quite a bit later than rest of the movie. I also thought that Craig's performance was consistant in QoS, unlike Brosnan in TWINE.

What I was trying to point out is that Craig's Bond is the "beautiful machine that we all know and love" at the end of CR, hence I don't see any reason (other than a commercial one) to make a direct sequel to a story already fully rounded in the novel Casino Royale, and particularly in the movie of the same name, where they go even a little further, with the last scene being a realization of the "He would go after the threat behind the spies, the threat that made them spy" -because Mr. White is at least part of that "threat", so achieving to capture him IMO is more than enough to cover that paragraph from the novel in the EON-, and I don't think it was really necessary to make an entire movie just to largely expand in the screen that tiny bit from the book.

In conclusion, QOS in most- if not all- of its length express the same for Bond's story arc, that CR already showed in its last scene.

#63 Head of S

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 03:36 PM

Oh, I'd forgotten that, Head of S! A point well made. I think it is a bit over-stating it to say that he is hardened by the experience, though, from a few small references scattered through a dozen novels. But I'll admit this is all getting very picky and of course we all see it different ways. Perhaps it's because I was always hoping that Fleming would take this line more, I don't know.


I agree with you SNF, I don't think the experience 'hardened' him. I just wanted to point out that he hadn't forgotten Vesper either. However, the Casino Royale mission does inform his character. In Goldfinger Bond recalls the days when it was 'fun playing Red Indians'. However, I'm straying off topic. Just to add my tuppence worth to the original poster's question, £568 million box office does not indicate a backlash!

#64 ACE

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 03:48 PM

Good points from both spynovelfan and Head of S.

I think most would deem Quantum of Solace at least a financial success.
Domestic: $168,368,427
Foreign: $406,516,419
Worldwide: $574,884,846

I just saw the movie again in a glorious HD print and I loved the excellent eco-geo-political James Bond thriller that is Quantum Of Solace.
There were those that didn't like it at first, liked it a leeedle bit more.
Unfortunately, there were some who still thought it was pants!

However, ALL of us are eagerly awaiting Bond 23!

#65 DR76

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 03:51 PM

“Now we’ve done this. Now we can move on.” – it seems clear to me that QOS was meant to be a one-time-only deal.



But QoS's grittiness wasn't a one-time deal. It's not the only Bond movie that has adopted a gritty tone during EON Production's history with the franchise. A gritty Bond movie has popped up every now and then over the past 47 years. Why is the media incapable of remembering this?



In conclusion, QOS in most- if not all- of its length express the same for Bond's story arc, that CR already showed in its last scene.



But Mr. White is not the head of Quantum. CASINO ROYALE made that perfectly clear. The head of an organization like Quantum does not travel to Africa to introduce a warlord to one of the organization's bankers. Nor does he travel to Montenegro to kill said banker and make a deal with a Treasury agent to get his hands on the money that said banker had stolen. He has minions for that. Which means that Mr. White is either a minion or part cog in a top notch organization.

Nor did I ever view that last scene in CASINO ROYALE as a sign that Bond has arrived. He still had to deal with his feelings for Vesper. The last thing I wanted to see was a rehash of what happened in DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, with Bond acting as if he had recovered from Vesper's death . . . like he had with Tracy's death. That's just piss-poor writing, as far as I'm concerned.

For me, the problem with QUANTUM OF SOLACE was not the story. I thought it was a pretty damn good story and I liked the way it addressed Bond's feelings over Vesper's betrayal and death. What I didn't like was how Forster stuffed a complex story into a 100 or 105 minute long movie, while adopting Paul Greengrass' confusing editing style along the way. Actually, I simply had a problem with Forster's direction - especially in the movie's first half.

Edited by DR76, 06 March 2009 - 04:02 PM.


#66 __7

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 04:31 PM

Craigs hair sucked for QOS, he needs the CR hairdo,


FIrst time I have heard that one.


You know, call me crazy, but I have thought the same thing since the very first promo shots came out for QoS. It was just something that stuck out.

#67 HH007

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 04:40 PM

Craigs hair sucked for QOS, he needs the CR hairdo,


FIrst time I have heard that one.


You know, call me crazy, but I have thought the same thing since the very first promo shots came out for QoS. It was just something that stuck out.


Funny, people complained about his hair in CR.

#68 Safari Suit

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 04:45 PM

It's because Bond was not making sexual innundeos while wiggling his eyebrows every five minutes.


It's so much easier to say that rather than actually engaging with those dissenting voices, isn't it?

#69 Judo chop

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 05:17 PM

It's because Bond was not making sexual innundeos while wiggling his eyebrows every five minutes.

It's so much easier to say that rather than actually engaging with those dissenting voices, isn't it?

Be honest now, Safari. Was that an attempt to engage in conversation, or the same kind of quick and easy swipe?

There is comedy in QOS. That's not debatable. Whether it's the kind that tickles a particular person is particuarly personal.

#70 Safari Suit

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 06:09 PM

It's because Bond was not making sexual innundeos while wiggling his eyebrows every five minutes.

It's so much easier to say that rather than actually engaging with those dissenting voices, isn't it?

Be honest now, Safari. Was that an attempt to engage in conversation, or the same kind of quick and easy swipe?


It was a gut reaction to the comment that, you're right, probably ended up more like a cheap swipe than a Voltairian level provocation. Fair cop. That said, I'm curious if Jaguar and others sincerely believe people didn't find QOS funny just because there were few overt jokes about sex and so forth. Because I've seen far, far more "people only dislike this because there's no Moneypenny and Brosnan isn't in it and they don't understand Phlegming etc."-type comments than I have people actually complaining about the lack of "cunning linguists" and so forth.

#71 Judo chop

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 07:24 PM

I'm curious if Jaguar and others sincerely believe people didn't find QOS funny just because there were few overt jokes about sex and so forth. Because I've seen far, far more "people only dislike this because there's no Moneypenny and Brosnan isn't in it and they don't understand Phlegming etc."-type comments than I have people actually complaining about the lack of "cunning linguists" and so forth.

For sure there's been :( shoveled onto either side. But in this particular case, the discussion is about those who would call QOS "humorless". And that's simply a lie. Either such a reviewer is a liar and is hyperbolizing for the sake of proving their stance true, or the person is, quite simply, hopelessly obtuse to the kind of humor that IS in QOS.

I think Jaguar was just throwing a little hyperbole back the other way.

#72 MHazard

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 07:53 PM

Nor did I ever view that last scene in CASINO ROYALE as a sign that Bond has arrived. He still had to deal with his feelings for Vesper. The last thing I wanted to see was a rehash of what happened in DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, with Bond acting as if he had recovered from Vesper's death . . . like he had with Tracy's death. That's just piss-poor writing, as far as I'm concerned.


But in fact, in the Fleming novels Vesper's death does not affect Bond the way Tracy's did. There are many reasons for this, which are more suitably discussed on the literary threads (though briefly they include that Bond feels responsible for Tracy's death and that he is older and more world-weary). Vesper is not Tracy and her death affected Bond entirely differently than Tracy's did. I think CR the movie portrayed that. QOS gave Bond a Tracy's death reaction to Vesper's. I think it was a disappointing choice among a number of disappointing choices made for QOS. No excuse by the way for the awful way the aftermath of Tracy's death has been handled in the films.

#73 Judo chop

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 08:15 PM

QOS gave Bond a Tracy's death reaction to Vesper's. I think it was a disappointing choice among a number of disappointing choices made for QOS. No excuse by the way for the awful way the aftermath of Tracy's death has been handled in the films.

A totally academic misplacement of a good thing is surely not the same as a bad thing. Bond falls deeply in love in CR (and more convincingly so than ever before I’d argue) and the fact that we get to witness actual consequences of that love in QOS is miraculous in light of past treatments.

You are easily the most literal Bond film fan I have ever ‘met’, MHazard. If QOS’s treatment of Bond’s love arc is disappointing to you, I can only imagine how agonizing an experience Bond fandom as a whole must be for you. When have they ever gotten it right?

#74 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 09:28 PM

“Now we’ve done this. Now we can move on.” – it seems clear to me that QOS was meant to be a one-time-only deal.



But QoS's grittiness wasn't a one-time deal. It's not the only Bond movie that has adopted a gritty tone during EON Production's history with the franchise. A gritty Bond movie has popped up every now and then over the past 47 years. Why is the media incapable of remembering this?



In conclusion, QOS in most- if not all- of its length express the same for Bond's story arc, that CR already showed in its last scene.



But Mr. White is not the head of Quantum. CASINO ROYALE made that perfectly clear. The head of an organization like Quantum does not travel to Africa to introduce a warlord to one of the organization's bankers. Nor does he travel to Montenegro to kill said banker and make a deal with a Treasury agent to get his hands on the money that said banker had stolen. He has minions for that. Which means that Mr. White is either a minion or part cog in a top notch organization.

Nor did I ever view that last scene in CASINO ROYALE as a sign that Bond has arrived. He still had to deal with his feelings for Vesper.


In the novels (at least, in Casino Royale & Live And Let Die) Bond never had to really deal with his feeling for Vesper, he simply acted like a consummated professional about it. "Their love and his grief were relegated to the boxroom of his mind. Later, perhaps they would be dragged out, dispassionately examined, and then bitterly thrust back with other sentimental baggage he would rather forget". And I definitely prefer Fleming's approach, not EON's.

Regarding Mr. White, I don't think that is so clear in CR (I'm just talking about what happens in that movie, not in QOS) that he isn't the head, or at least one the heads, of the organization- I mean, Blofeld in the latter movies in which he appeared, did several things by himself- however, it's very clear that White isn't one the minions, and he certainly could be considered as part of "the threat behind the spies". And anyhow, it's not the case either that in QOS, Bond do finallly meet other bigger head of Quantum.

Edited by Mr. Arlington Beech, 06 March 2009 - 11:05 PM.


#75 MHazard

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 10:14 PM

QOS gave Bond a You are easily the most literal Bond film fan I have ever ‘met’, MHazard. If QOS’s treatment of Bond’s love arc is disappointing to you, I can only imagine how agonizing an experience Bond fandom as a whole must be for you. When have they ever gotten it right?


Actually, Judo, I think CR, OHMSS, DN, FRWL, GF, and TB are damn fine movies. I don't find it coincidental that those are also the movies that are the closest adaptations of the Fleming source novels. Movie Bond has always been somewhat different than literary Bond but the above movies at least present recognizable versions of the character and the novels they were based on. (For the record, and as you've probably seen me write, I also quite enjoy YOLT, TLD, NSNA-horribly scripted though it was) and even enjoy a viewing of DAF and [astoundingly] TSWLM. My preference for Fleming based Bond is no secret on this site.

I thought CR was a relatively faithful adaptation of Fleming's novel by Eon standards (again, BY EON STANDARDS). I felt the ending left Bond as the Bond we recognize from the early movies (one I much prefer to later incarnations) and also one that could be consistent with how he is left at the end of the novel (see the recent post-sadly I forget who by-quoting the language about locking his feelings away to be examined at a later date). Am I disapointed that they didn't take the opportunity CR gave them to use early Fleming novels properly (LALD, DAF, MR)? Of course I am, it's me. Would I have preferred that they not do a Bond obsessing over Vesper in a way I think inconsistent with both movie and novel CR but instead give us a more like DN Bond? Yes, absolutely.

#76 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 10:25 PM

“Now we’ve done this. Now we can move on.” – it seems clear to me that QOS was meant to be a one-time-only deal.



But QoS's grittiness wasn't a one-time deal. It's not the only Bond movie that has adopted a gritty tone during EON Production's history with the franchise. A gritty Bond movie has popped up every now and then over the past 47 years. Why is the media incapable of remembering this?



In conclusion, QOS in most- if not all- of its length express the same for Bond's story arc, that CR already showed in its last scene.



But Mr. White is not the head of Quantum. CASINO ROYALE made that perfectly clear. The head of an organization like Quantum does not travel to Africa to introduce a warlord to one of the organization's bankers. Nor does he travel to Montenegro to kill said banker and make a deal with a Treasury agent to get his hands on the money that said banker had stolen. He has minions for that. Which means that Mr. White is either a minion or part cog in a top notch organization.

Nor did I ever view that last scene in CASINO ROYALE as a sign that Bond has arrived. He still had to deal with his feelings for Vesper.


In the novels (at least, in Casino Royale & Live And Let Die) Bond never had to really deal with his feeling for Vesper, he simply acted like a consummated professional about it. "Their love and his grief were relegated to the boxroom of his mind. Later, perhaps they would be dragged out, dispassionately examined, and then bitterly thrust back with other sentimental baggage he would rather forget". And I definitely prefer Fleming's approach, not EON's.


I agree with MHazard's opinion. In QOS, Bond is obsessed over Vesper in a way that is inconsistent with both, novel and movie, CR.

Edited by Mr. Arlington Beech, 06 March 2009 - 11:10 PM.


#77 JimmyBond

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 07:03 PM

I can understand you saying it's inconsistent with the novel, as it's true Bond does put his feelings for her into the back of his mind. I don't understand what you mean when you say it doesnt jive with CR the film. There is nothing to suggest Bond was over Vesper by film's end, and if there was I must have missed it.

#78 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 10:10 PM

I can understand you saying it's inconsistent with the novel, as it's true Bond does put his feelings for her into the back of his mind. I don't understand what you mean when you say it doesnt jive with CR the film. There is nothing to suggest Bond was over Vesper by film's end, and if there was I must have missed it.

Well, the movie CR- even being a pretty faithful adaption of the novel- can't be that explicit to show these internal reflections of Bond. But I believe that "the bitch is dead" line (also present in Fleming's work) summarize 007 feelings after Vesper's death with a perfect resemblance of the thoughts that he has in the book.

#79 Christopher006

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 03:34 AM

It's not the absence of Q, Moneypenny, etc., because CR didn't have these elements and no one cared. It's a tonal thing. I actually think QOS is far more conventional Bond film than CR, but its tone is much more serious and bleak, hence it doesn't feel like a Bond film for general moviegoers. While it was measured, CR had a sense of Bondian fantasy (the villain cries blood) and playful wit (Bond returning to the table after the poising episode). That's what people missed, IMO.


Tone certainly played a role in the critical failure of QOS. The film's biggest sin is the villain's dull scheme of controlling Bolivia's water. After the big, elaborate, and fun schemes from villains like Auric Goldfinger, Max Zorin, or Carl Stromberg, Green's plan to take over Bolivia's water is simply uninteresting. The tone and the lack of Q and Moneypenny were not the main problems. Unlike CR, QOS is a bad film. It is poorly written, has unmemorable characters, and has terribly directed action scenes. It is the dullest film in the series.

Even if a Bond film lacked all the classic fantasy elements, it would still be good if it was well written and directed.

Edited by Christopher006, 08 March 2009 - 05:16 AM.


#80 Vauxhall

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 04:18 AM

Tone certainly played a role in the critical failure of QOS.

For a start, I wouldn't call QUANTUM OF SOLACE a "critical failure". 65% of 231 reviews on Rotten Tomatoes constitutes a 'fresh' rating, and shouldn't be sneered at. CASINO ROYALE was an anomaly in terms of near universal critical acclaim for a Bond movie, and is perhaps an unfair yardstick for QUANTUM OF SOLACE.

#81 jamie00007

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 09:25 AM

Yes Vauxhall, the way people act with the reviews you'd think all Bond movies were being released to overwhelming critical acclaim before QoS. Critically, QoS ranks somewhere in the middle. So anyone who wants to call QoS a "critical failure" better be prepared to write off half the series as that too.

Going by the critic aggregate sites, the average reviewer gave QoS more than 3 stars. Hardly a "critical failure". In fact I remember for the first few weeks of its release it was the ONLY movie in the top 10 at the box office that was certified as "fresh"by RT.

Edited by jamie00007, 09 March 2009 - 09:52 AM.


#82 Revelator

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 07:14 PM

And I question whether or not anyone who calls QoS "Flemingesque" has really read much Fleming, because Ian Fleming's novels all painted the portrait of exotic cities, elegant high society living, flamboyant, larger-than-life villains with interesting schemes and henchmen, action, and adventure.


Some of these elements are present in QoS. Exotic locales include Haiti, Sienna and Bolivia, not to mention wherever Mathis's house was, and each is presented with a touristic zest that has been absent from so many of the preceding Bond films; the travelogue aspect really comes through, especially in the local color inserts. We also get high-society living in the opera and fundraising scenes, and though Greene's scheme is disappointingly uninvolving, as a villain he could have walked out of Fleming (I actually wish Amalric, with his demonic black eyes, had played LeChiffre instead of Mads Whats-his-face). In other respects you are right: Greene's scheme lacks urgency, and aside from the scaffold fight, the action scenes are forgettable, and--thanks to the editing--sometimes unwatchable. And while Bond might not haved bonked Gala Brand in MR, he at least got to kiss her and see her naked, whereas QoS seems embarrassed by Camille's sex appeal. Fleming was always quite clear on the therapeutic value of sex with Bond for a bird with a wing down. I think QoS's real triumphs are in art direction--the element that makes the tourist and luxury scenes seem truly opulent--and in the comprehensiveness of its character arcs. The last element is perhaps not very Fleming-like because, as Spynovelfan points out, Fleming was not a consistent writer, and though Bond's character changes, it often does so in a haphazard manner. In contrast, Haggis and company have made each major protagonist--Bond, Camille, M, and Leiter--go through an arc where they gain greater self-knowledge, independence, and peace of mind. In "serious" drama this sort of thing is par for the course, but in a Bond movie it's practically revolutionary. And I have to admit that I enjoyed seeing the loose ends of CR tied up in a way Fleming neglected.

In some ways, the angst and moral ambiguity of CR were there to be gotten out of the way and be cleared off the table so that Fleming could proceed to the straight-ahead adventure story format of LALD and MR. Having tipped his hat to these darker elements, Fleming could now disregard them in his future books. This perhaps is why Bond doesn't spend any time grieving over Vesper in LALD. He is not quite a cold machine, but he is a "wonderful machine" since he is certainly much less reflective and moody than in CR and now perfectly suited for action heroics. It's only in DAF that Bond begins to resume the emotional inner life he had in CR, thanks to a new element introduced into the series: the bird with a wing down who awakens Bond's caring side.
Whereas Fleming started his hero off with an emotional crisis and then made him into an action machine, the movies did the opposite--after the action robotics of most of the preceding films, Bond got his emotional crisis in CR. And since the mass audience has now grown sophisticated enough (thanks more to TV than film) to expect such things as "character arcs" and intricate long-running storylines, Bond now has a character arc of his own and a continuing entanglement with Vesper's legacy.
Ironically these very elements--which are better suited for TV than film--might have contributed to the film's somewhat mixed reception. QoS is a direct sequel that's best enjoyed with a very fresh and clear memory of what happened in the preceding film--and it is very unlikely that the average movie-goer was in such a state. Some of the intricate connections between CR and QooS quite likely were missed by the public and critics, who ended up thinking the movie was neither fish nor fowl. Many of the critical reviews I read faulted the movie as being a more conventional Bond film than CR, thanks to its more traditional story structure and characters. Such critics and moviegoers, having not fully appreciated the film's storytelling with relation to CR, would then say "since this is a more conventional Bond movie, why don't we at least get to enjoy the usual Bond-movie attributes, instead of having them muted?" These reactions did not prevent the film from being a box office success, but that is because QoS rode in on the wake of CR's success. The real measure of QoS's influence will be how the next Bond film does, and whether QoS encourages people to see it in the way that CR encouraged people to see QoS.

Edited by Revelator, 10 March 2009 - 07:20 PM.


#83 jamie00007

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:47 PM

Some of these elements are present in QoS. Exotic locales include Haiti, Sienna and Bolivia, not to mention wherever Mathis's house was, and each is presented with a touristic zest that has been absent from so many of the preceding Bond films; the travelogue aspect really comes through, especially in the local color inserts.

I agree with your whole post, but just wanted to comment on this one. I think this is one aspect of QoS that has been overlooked by everyone. One of the things I really love about QoS is that it brings back the real world, travelogue aspect of Bond that has imo been missing for a long time, with the exception of the Madagascar and Vienna scenes in CR. The previous five or six films (even though I know were filmed on location in part) felt very set bound, and when they actually showed real locations it just felt too polished and stagey for some reason that I cant put my finger on.

With QoS, so much of the movie took place outside in beautiful, exotic settings. And with crowded streets, budy roads and waterways, it felt real too. I think this is one of QoS's biggest strengths, and its a shame it isnt recognised more.

#84 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 01:49 AM

Some of these elements are present in QoS. Exotic locales include Haiti, Sienna and Bolivia, not to mention wherever Mathis's house was, and each is presented with a touristic zest that has been absent from so many of the preceding Bond films; the travelogue aspect really comes through, especially in the local color inserts.

I agree with your whole post, but just wanted to comment on this one. I think this is one aspect of QoS that has been overlooked by everyone. One of the things I really love about QoS is that it brings back the real world, travelogue aspect of Bond that has imo been missing for a long time, with the exception of the Madagascar and Vienna scenes in CR. The previous five or six films (even though I know were filmed on location in part) felt very set bound, and when they actually showed real locations it just felt too polished and stagey for some reason that I cant put my finger on.

With QoS, so much of the movie took place outside in beautiful, exotic settings. And with crowded streets, budy roads and waterways, it felt real too. I think this is one of QoS's biggest strengths, and its a shame it isnt recognised more.

I disagree. For Bond movies, I don't want 'realistic' locations. I want exotic-and more important- glamorous locations. I think that was achieved perfectly in CR with 'Montenegro', Venice, Bahamas and even 'Madagascar' (which is also Bahamas, and is showed as a pretty colorful place with not that much poverty, as it is in the real world). In the other hand, I don't find exotic the squalid look of 'Haiti' and 'Bolivia', more like realistically depressing. Maybe it's because I live in the so called third world, but I don't find poverty beautiful, hence I don't want that a escapist-pure entertainmente- movie like Bond flicks could be contaminated by this.

And don't tell me about the european part of QOS, 'cause 'Haiti' and 'Bolivia' appears in more than the half of the movie.

Edited by Mr. Arlington Beech, 11 March 2009 - 05:07 AM.


#85 jamie00007

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 02:05 AM

There were plenty of both exotic and glamourous locations in QoS. Also probably half the locations that have featured throughout the entire series are no less third world and poverty stricken than Haiti and Bolivia so I dont see why that would be an issue with QoS. Afghanistan, Jamaica, Yogoslavia, Mexico, Egypt, India, Pakistan, Vietnam and Korea arent exactly world leaders when it comes to human rights...

And Haiti and Bolivia were balanced out by Italy and Austria.

#86 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 04:58 AM

There were plenty of both exotic and glamourous locations in QoS. Also probably half the locations that have featured throughout the entire series are no less third world and poverty stricken than Haiti and Bolivia so I dont see why that would be an issue with QoS. Afghanistan, Jamaica, Yogoslavia, Mexico, Egypt, India, Pakistan, Vietnam and Korea arent exactly world leaders when it comes to human rights...

And Haiti and Bolivia were balanced out by Italy and Austria.


Is not what country you choose to show in the plot, is how you show it in the movie, what makes a place looks glamorous or squalid; just like I explained with the 'Madagascar' example of CR- which looked picturesque, if you want, but certainly not poor-. And again... don't tell me that Haiti and Bolivia were balanced out by Italy and Austria, because 'Haiti' and 'Bolivia' appears in more than the half of the movie.

Edited by Mr. Arlington Beech, 11 March 2009 - 05:20 AM.


#87 danielcraigisjamesbond007

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 05:16 AM

ive been on a couple of other forums and sites recently and noticed that when the topic of QoS or Bond in general comes up most people (being the general public) seem to complain about Bond not being Bond. now i know this has been said a few times even when Casino Royale came out but it seems now that people a going against the 'realistic' Bond.
So has Quantum caused this backlash? as far as i remember Craig's Bond was loved by the public now people seem a bit 'eh' about him. is the tide turning on the realistic bond now?

It's not that it wasn't realistic (with the exception of that HORRID parachute jump). The stunts, to me, were not impressive at all. I almost fell asleep during the boat chase and the DC-3 chase. I kept telling myself that things were going to get better, but they didn't...B)

#88 Royal Dalton

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 05:30 AM

Craigs hair sucked for QOS, he needs the CR hairdo,


FIrst time I have heard that one.


You know, call me crazy, but I have thought the same thing since the very first promo shots came out for QoS. It was just something that stuck out.


Funny, people complained about his hair in CR.

Probably because it looked like a toilet brush.

For some reason, Craig's hair always looks more Bond-like when he's promoting the films.

#89 Eddie Burns

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 05:52 AM

We really don't see much of Bolivia and Haiti anyway. Plus I'm not all that eager to go to those places on the basis of what QoS showed me.

This sequel was rather pointless. Instead they should have made a loose sequel that had Vesper's tragedy flowing through its centre. It would have been great for this (non-existent) character arc if Bond actually gave a reason as to why M suspects him of going off the rails. He's pretty much the same person throughout, and only really lets his guard down on the plane with Mathis. It would have been nice to see him snap at Mr. White for example during the interrogation. Instead, Bond just sat there with a scowl...I think the film would have been enhanced this way.

QoS could have been cut down to a 45min movie and still leave you with the same feeling you had when you saw it in the cinema. Most of it is just nonsense. Greene is not a Fleming villain...we know nothing of him or about him. Who he is, how he got to be where he was? Fleming always enriched his villains with a back story or description that made one regard them with awe. Greene is neither awe-inspiring nor mysterious. Just a puny French guy told to do his best downplayed Bond villain act.

Camille's sex appeal was downplayed...why? Let's bring some sex appeal back please.

M was not Fleming's M,
Leiter was not Fleming's Leiter,
I see nothing that was Flemingian about this movie. Gritty locations are very welcome but they should be minor/brief. Plus the locations were not presented as how Fleming would have written them.

#90 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 05:57 AM

For some reason, Craig's hair always looks more Bond-like when he's promoting the films.

So true!!